Proceedings of the kohimarama Conference.

Maori Messenger : Te Karere Maori, Volume VII, Issue 17, 1 September 1860, Page 4

Proceedings of the kohimarama Conference.

Monday, August 6th, iB6O.

The Native Secretary:— Chiefs of the Conference! During the past week you discussed questions affecting your land. You received a Message from the Governor suggesting the defination of tribal boundaries to land and the individualization of title. He! has requested you to bring the subject under ihe notice of your respective tribes when you return home, that you may devise some plan for the accomplishment of this object. You have received another message suggesting mixed juries (of English and Maori) in cases of murder, in order that you may lake part in trials where persons of your own race are concerned. You have also had submitted to you a code of elementary rules prepared by your friend, Dr. Martin, the first Chief Justice of New Zealand. His object in putting forth! these Rules was to supply some simple! means for the administration of justice in Native districts remote from English Towns, and thus to supersede Maori usages. You have also received a full explanation of .the circumstances which led to the Taranaki war. The Governor has had explained to you the English Law of succession to property, •with the hope that you may be induced to adopt it, or something on the same principle, and thus to remove many of your present difficulties. Yon have, moreover, heard the particulars of the Maori King movement, and your opinions thereon have been solicited. And you have expressed a wish that a Conference like the present should be held periodically. I invite your attention this week to another subject. I wish you to take under your notice the expediency of considering some regulations for the better management of your settlements. How would it answer if 1 a Chief was appointed in each district to] communicate with the Governor and to maintain order among his people? | I do not now refer to settlements in the neighbourhood of English Towns but to those in remote places where access to the English Courts is not easily available. You might also consider whether English Magistrates would not be an assistance, in connection wilh the Kunahga, in settling disputes.

If Mo'.ii, of Pnkaki, werfe present to-day, I should reply to his speech. I shall wail till 1 have an opportunity of doing so in the hearing of many of the Waikalos. [A voice —"Mohi is not here."] I hear that Waikato assd llauraki are proposing that a distinct Conference should be held for them ; bat my opinion is that they should have attended this Conference where they might express their opinions in the hearing of Chiefs from all parts of the Island, for even Taiaroa, from the extreme South, is here. - The Hauraki people have probably absented themselves on account of illness. If this is uot the case, they were wrong in leaving it for the pakehas alone to welcome the strangers. * Metekingi, (Ngupou'.ama), Whanganui:— Mr. McLean, you have introduced two subjects ; first, the (mixed) jury of twelve, in cases of murder; secondly, "about the succession of the properly of deceased persons to their children, or, where there are no cnildren, to the relations. We have considered this subject (the succession of properly) before. This is a new subject introduced by you, the jury. The third of your subjects was Taranaki. I don't understand that subject. That matter rests with you and the Governor. The fourth subject was the King. I leave that matter also to you. The Waikato (Chiefs) say that their thoughts are for peace. lam following out your words (Air. McLean). This person and that person has revealed his troubles. This is the last week of the Conference; therefore I shall reply to your speeches, Mr. McLean. This is what I have to say about the jury. This institution has been offered to the Maories. Here also is a word. Governor Grey appointed Assessors. Those Assessors have performed the duties (of their office). This is the second year of my Assessorship. I have not yet received any consideration for my services. The custom amongst Europeans is to receive paytr ent for services performed, but 1 receive no payment. I propose that you set this right. Now I would ask, what are your intentions respecting this jury of twelve? Also, tell us your intentions about the Assessors. Tahana Turoa, (Patutokotoko,) Whanganui :—1 am wailing to hear the Governor's reply to the words of the llananga. Ii has been suggested that each man should return to his own home and lo his own house and

consider ihe proposals about the land. The Governor has also directed that some good rules should be explained to us Tor our adoption. I desire to see good things spread throughout this island. Your second suggestion about a Superintendent in each of the remote districts is good. Let this Conference appoint them; that the kaingas may have a head. lam not speaking of those districts in the neighbourhood of Pakeha towns. Your third subject has reference to the Ring. In my opinion all the Chiefs of this Island are in this with setting up this King. I reply it was done by all the world. I mean by New Zealand. Let the Maori Chiefs see that they do what is right. It will be right to observe the Laws of the Queen. This Conference is clearing away the rubbish from the court-yard. The people without, when they see it, will approve. My desire is to do that which is right that the goodness of my heart may increase. Do not let our opinions be divided; but let us persevere. Eruera Patuone, (Ngapuhi,) Awalaha:— I have only now taken my seat in the Conference. Listen you Chiefs of the Runanga! lam grieved to hear of the Conference of Ngatimaru and Waikato, proposed to be held here. I think they ought to have attended while we are here. For this reason lam grieved at the words of Ngalimaru, ofNgalipaoa, of Ngatitamatera, and of Waikato. If the supporters of the King had thought fit to come to this Conference in which we are assembled, it would have been very good. I am the foundation of this Conference. I agreed to Governor Hobson's residing on this land. If he had not taken up his abode on this shore, then this island would have been in trouble. Another nation would have come and taken possession of it. When I consented to allow the Pakebas to settle on this land, one portion of Ngapuhi headed by Manu left (the meeting). For this reason then, Chiefs, I stick to the Pakehas. I have suffered many losses in avenging the Pakehas. Now, listen, about Ngapuhi: some are in favor of the pakeha and some against them. When a pakeha named Mills (?) was killed, I avenged his death b\ killing Kirimahore. When Wharangi (?) was killed, I look the matter up and slew Matetakahia. When Messrs. Hobbs and White were plundered (at 'Whangaroa), I rose up and then we had the Kaeo quarrel. When the Herald was wrecked, and her stores plundered, I took notice of it and sought atonement for it by destroying

the crops of Waireia. When Paraki (?) was wrecked, Waihouwas the payment. Mr. Clendon was plundered and Kahi was killed as payment for this act. A Native committed murder by drowning (a pakeha) and he was put to death for it. My grandchild (Muketu) took upon himself to commit a crime. VYhb was the payment for his sin ? lie was himself. He lies yonder. When Kororareka fell I united myself to the Queen's cause. Hence the report that you heard that I was fighting against my own son. Gunpowder belonging to the Governor was robbed by the Hauraki natives. I looked to the Chiefs of this place (to avenge it). You see, therefore, that I constantly cleave to the Pakeha. With respect to the proposed meeting of the Waikato and Hauraki Natives, I say, let ihem come, but who will there be here to listen to what they have to say ? The tribes who should listen will all have returned home, I remember the words of Porokoru when he said, "Although I occupy but one river, Waikato—my hand shall slay both the red skin and the white skin." 1 suppose this threat refers to me, inasmuch as no other tribe has identified itself so closely wilh the pakeha as mine. I have nothing more to say. WiremuNeroTeAwaitaia,(Ngatimahanga,) Whaingaroa:—J)o not let your feet trample on my words. I, who am now speaking, do not fully comprehend the laws of the pakeha. I consent to the words of Eruera Paiuone; they are very correct. lam well pleased, friend, wilh your words. It is true that you laid the foundation. Your last words, 100, were true. All the tribes agree wilh yours. The Governor's words about the land are good. It is right that each person should return to his home and carefully consider this subject: there may be some ai the kaingas who will object to the plan now proposed. Ido not refer (in particular) to your remarks, Tohi. I speak of places in general. We may make arrangements here but there may be others at home who would disapprove of them, and they may say without reason that the pakehas are to blame for it. The proposal about a jury is good. God appointed Judges over Israel. This is Jehovah's plan even to the present time. The plan is not the Governor's—it is God's. But it is a superintendent (we want); and it will be for him to appoint Magistrates for New Zealand to suppress the evils ©f this tribe and that tribe. It would not be right for ihe Assessors of one

tribe to interfere in the affairs of another ] tribe ; but let Assessors be selected from the Chiefs of every tribe. '' I shall now speak of ray bundle of sticks. | It was the lesson taught by a father to his I seven sons. Those seven sons ware growing J into manhood, and their father was declining! to the grave. He thought within himself "My J children are thoughtless, and will not be; wise after my death."- He said to his sons,! "I am near deaih : come into my presence." The sons then stood forth. The father, took seven sticks and tied them up in a! bundle and giving them to the eldest he said, " Break them." He could not break them. He gave them to the second, ami said to him, "Break them." They were nor broken. He said the same to the thirdj and so on to the seventh. They were not broken because they were tied together j in a bundle and were therefore firm. He, now separated the sticks and gave one to j each of the lads. They were- no longer strong, and all the seven slicks were broken. The father then said '• Tie ihem in a bundle , and they won't break." I will liken this to the Maori and to the Pakeha. If they are separated they will easily be broken up. They will not endure but will be torn to pieces. 1 I will not uphold that system. B that system be established, this Island will go wrong—the' thoughts (of the people) will be divided. If j this Conference be strong, these troubles will i cease to exist; because, if all the Chiefs will! co-operate in this matter our prosperity will grow. I say, people of Ngatitoa, of Whanganui, and of Ngatiwhakaue, you must lie us into a bundle that we may rest on the law, both soul and body. I shall not speak thus, "Your fault 0 Governor—your fault j ' 0 Pakeha;" surely words should come from a number of Chiefs. Polaiau died still holding to our arrangement to retain the pakeha. Let the Governor lie us in a bundle. He understands what measures to devise for us. Let us leave it to Waka Nene also to tie us in a bundle, for he is resting on the (Governor's) system. Let the Government also lie' us in a bundle. What if this world does j become evil ? Let us cleave to that which' is good. The root of my (fable of the) sticks j is in the words:—" Thou, 0 Judah, are praised by thy brethren. Judah is a lion's whelp. The sceptre shall not depart from Judah nor a lawgiver from between his feet, j (till ShHoh come)." If we stand upon thisl

Scripture then we shall stand. This word is like unto a stone cast into our midst. Tarnibana Te Rauparaha, (\gatiioa), Olaki:—Let me utter my thoughts that the Conference of Chiefs may hear them. Let me speak on the subject of the Jury of twelve. Let that question be decided. I propose that we should all consent to this measure, that it may be clear, lest some other course be taken. Let this proposal be now adopted: therefore consent to it all of you. But we must leave it for the Governor to select the six (Maori) jurors to sit with thepakehas. These are not mere proposals of the lip : they proceed from the heart. Let the Conference adopt a resolution in writing on the subject ef the (mixed) Jury. Do not ridicule these laws, for they will be the means or securing our prosperity. Mr. McLean has made these proposals with a view to the benefit of this Island, New Zealand. Another subject is the succession of the properly of a deceased man. It rests with the parent lo say whether his property shall be divided amongst his children or whether it shall be left to his wife after his death. It should be left for persons appointed by the Governor, to carry out his wishes, and to secure it to them in writing. This would prevent the interference of persons not concerned, because the matter would be carried out in accordance with the law of England, that is lo say, of this respectable .people, the Pakehas. 1 have a proposal to make about the land also. Most, of our Maori difficulties are connected with the land. Let it be arranged that the land be subdivided, in order that roch man may have his own portion, and that our troubles may cease. The only way in which this can he secured and firmly established is to put it in writing, so that the Pakehas of England may read it, and the Pakehas all over the world; also that we may leave it as a memorial lo our descendants. I have another proposal lo make; let *' makutu" witchcraft; be put an end to and let us believe in the great God of Heaven. Let " makutu" be now buried for ever and let us be no longer slaves to the u Atua-Maori" (heathen gods). I quite agree with the suggestion that a Pakeba should be appointed as a head for us, in. the remote districts. -It is very evident to I me thai the decisions of the Native Assessors j (if left to themselves) will not be right. I Why do you give this King question anv j further consideration ? It is quite right that we should eomjemn that King movement

carried on by Waikalo to the Southward of Auckland. It is as Mr. McLean said : here is Taiaroa from the Middle Island, but how is it that the men of Waikato and Hauraki, of ihe neighbouring districts, have not attended ? Well then, when we have closed our proceedings, and have obtained those things we desire, and for which we assembled here, we shall return to our places. As for the people of Hauraki and Waikato, they must do their own work. What Eruera (Patuone) and his brother (Tamati Waka) have said is good. Their thoughts are very clear, but this is because they have become Pakehas. What do we want of this King ? If is child's play—it is "humbug." What Te Awaitaia has said is correct, namely* that sticks lied into a bundle are not easily broken. If we take another course we shall get astray. If you disapprove of what I have said, say so. My thought respecting Taranaki is this. I am grieved that the disturbance there still continues. By what means may tranquillity be restored? Do you try and discover some means. You know that place, but I have never seen it. We shall perhaps see each other again during coming years, but now that we are returning to our homes let us go determined to follow up Pakeha customs—to build houses like that of the Pakeha, to feed sheep and cattle, to build towns like those of the Pakeha, &c, &e. I have now a word to say about the Mai's, or rather about a Post Office at Otaki. I recommend that Maories should be employed to do the work. Another suggestion I have to make is that a Maori Militia be enrolled as a safeguard, and as a means ol averting evil. It is my desire that Maories should be admitted to this service in order that there may be truth in the statement that the Pakehas and the Maories are united. You must give this matter your consideration before approving. Now for my third suggestion. It refers to the military stockade for the Hutt (Wellington). I recommend that it should not be erected lest it be the means of unsettling some evil minded men, and because there will be no fighting there. But let the Maories be enrolled in the Militia for that place. Paraone, (Te Uriohau,) Kaipara :—I shall direct my speech at once to your words recommending that we should return to our respective places and there consider the suljectof thfclandc Do not suppose that

-this will answer or that mere talk will settle it. It will be wrong, for you have seen it. Rather let it be discussed according to law, and with the law as our guide. I have sided with the Queen and with the Government. TtiTs is a true word of the Ngatiwhatua, and an ancient one, "Say that a man's life shall be spared and it shall be." In this matter also, do you listen. . I shall not take part in anything evil during the coming days. Look you at the proceedings of Te Tirarau and Paikea. In like manner I shall turn towards my father the Governor. What Eruera has said is correct. I also will tell of the settling of Pakehas by Te Kawau and Te Tinana at Karangahape. When Governor Hobson landed at the Bay of Islands and Captain Symonds went to Kaipara, the people said, "0! the land will betaken." Te Tinana replied, "No; let them come to be my friends." Before the Pakehas arrived here my priest, Titabi, dreamt of them. This was the hari he composed. Let me recite it to you. [The speaker here repeated the hari.] Manuka, (Ngaiiwhalua,) Kaipara : Friend, Mr. McLean, I greet you. Yon reply, " Very good." There is no other course, the speeches are of the same tune love, and the establishment of the Queen's laws. Now, listen! The Queen shall be my firm friend for ever and ever! " Mercy and truth have met together." Te Makarini Te Uhiniko, (Ngaliawa,) Te-Awa-a-te-Atua :—I rise to speak because I am phased with the words of Te Awaitaia and Tjituihana which they have spoken day after day. An important subject (is before the Co Terence), and they have taken it up. Therefore I say, let them persevere in the course they have taken. Who can answer for the rest of us in this runanga ? because we still cleave to the old customs of Uenuku the man-eater. For this reason I agree with Te Awaitaia in his parable of the sticks. Mr. McLean, I desire to have the subject of the jury of twelve fully made clear. The Native Secretary:— The subject of the jury is not now .under discussion : we are now upon the subject of the administration of justice in Native districts remote from English settlements. Te Makarini Te Uhiniko continued: Then, Mr. McLean, we will let that subject staud over till we get to our homes. Now respecting the half-castes: they are neither Pakeha- nor Maori—they are intermediate, Ihey are like abird alighting on

a sand-bank : the tide flows over it and they are obliged to take wing. Let us, the Conference, put this matter right, because they are hair Maories. Let us manifest our regard for the relation they bear to us. Let us mark out for ibem a portion from the lands of their maternal ancestors, lest the land be taken by others and the children (of the half-castes) become wanderers. Wiremu Patene, (Ngaiterangi,) Tauranga: —Listen, Chiefs of the. Conference ! I have two words to say in reply to Mr. McLean's proposal that a head should be appointed (in our remote districts). In the year 1856 we sent letters asking for a magistrate to be stationed at our Kainga, at Tauranga. Again in the year 1857 we wrote, but the Governor did not comply. We were fighting and still sending letters, applying for a Pakeha Officer to be our head, "during 4858 and until 1859, when Mr. Turton, came by direction or the Governor. He put an end to our disturbances at Tauranga. Now, in the year iB6O, Mr. Clarne has been appointed. My desire is now satisfied, for I now have a person to enlighten me. What I now say is, that he shall be the head for Tauranga, for Makeiu, for Whakatane, foi Dpoiiki, and away inland to Tarawera, to Rotorua, and even to Maungatautari—notwithstanding there being a King there, for it is one of those districts remote from English towns. My word that he shall be our head is firmly established. Me has already nominated those who shall serve under him- and assist bim. I have eonsented that Mr. Clarke shall be my head. The Native Secretary:—Chiefs 'of Te Arawa, of Ngaiterangi, and of Tuhourangi, do you concur in the sentiments of Wiremu Patene respecting Mr. Clarke? A general assent from the Bay of Plentv Chiefs. * The Native Secretary .-—That is settled; now then let us give our attention to the speech of Maihi Paraone. Maihi Paraone Kawiti, (Ngapuhi,) Bay of Islands:—This is my word in reply to what Mr. McLean has said about forsaking the practice of "Makuiu." It is not desirable that we should continue it. This Conference has already disapproved of it. .1 now make confession of my sin, and consent to gWe up, altogether that evil custom. I approve or the proposal that Pakeha magistrates (or beads) should be stationed among the native tribes. My opinion is that there should be two or three Maori Assistants, and not merely one. Tthese

assistants should carry oat his decisions. Let there be one Magistrate at the Bay of Islands, and another at Whangarei. 'Let us have this law to secure our temporal interests; and let us have the Law of Christianity for the salvation of the soul, that we may be made good in the sight of God. Lastly, I approve of the plan proposed for arranging the laud, that it may be free from 'difficulty for ever and ever. Let the Conference say. Amen ! The Native Secretary :—I fully concur in the words of Maihi Paraone where he deprecates that evil custom, the Makutu. Let every Chief of the Conference exert himself to put down the old Maori customs. Makutu is one of them. Now, let not such a case as this one we have been discussing ever occur again. Let all heathen practices be abandoned for ever, and let the worship of the true Go 1 engage the attention of the Maori people. Ihakara, (Ngatiraukawa,') Manawatu : Friends, I am still in ignorance as to the object of this Conference, but perhaps you understand it. Let meask you, Is it for the confession of sins? I am silling idle. I have only just become acquainted with the name of this Conference. Ir this is to be a means of suppressing evils, then I understand the object of our Conference-the confession of oil, and the suppression of it. Let me again speak, and ask you a question; because lam in doubt. Have we assembled here for the purpose of exposing and overcoming this great personage, Sin ? [Assent.] The Chiefs who control a man are his own thoughts. Now I perceive that the evil thoughts will be overcome and vanquished. I shall now follow in the speech of Te Awaitaia. The people (of Judaea) assembled at (.the river) Jordan to confess their sins. This also is a Jordan; for here we confess our sins. John (the Baptist) asked that multitude, "Wherefore have you come here?" They replied,." For t! e confession of sins." Wiremu Nero spoke of his bundle of sticks. Yes, he was right. The greatest authority now is the runanga. Now, as to Maori customs, Mr. McLean : the Scriptures require that we sboulJ overcome evils, snch as fornication and murder. I say, let highmindedness also be overcome, for it is right that the heart be humbled. If I should return with my thoughts puffed up, and others should do the same, then it will seem as if I had not known the object of our meeting at Auckland.

Tukihaumene, (Ngaiiwbakaue,) Rotoroa: —Your words are correct. Now, listen you to my true oath, and let yours be true also. J have no other words to utter bui the Queen and iheGovernor only (for mi'). I have nothing else 10 say. Although a man may say he is a Chief and that his words are right, (I say,} no, he is a dog. The Queen shall be our head for ever and ever! This is my word. Taiaroa, (Ngaitahu,) Olago: -There is nothing to speak about. I had only one object in coming here. I have only one' subject to speak of, namely, the Queen. Ngapnhi, your riches are your own. Hongi | went to England to fetch them. He came bark bringing guns and a coat of mail.. I did not come to support the King: I came, to support the Queen. I have no other subject to speak on- Let the (Maori; King do his own work ; but let all of us here assembled be Kings! Meeting adjourned to 7th instant. Tuesday, August 7th, 1860. The Native Secretary, in his introductory remarks, observed that he wished to correct a misapprehension on the part of some of the Ngatirankawa people as to Potatau's sentiments towards the pakehas. He assured them that Potaiau's conduct towards the settlers had been uniformly that of kin 1ness and goodwill; and in support of this statement he read to them the report of a speech delivered by that Chief, on the 26ih May last, to the Ngatiwhaiua tribe. He moreover gave an account of his interview with Poiatau at Ngaruawahia. Hemi Matini, Whaingaioa:—The reason 1 speak is because we are making a covenant with our pakeha friends. Mr. McLean spoke yesterday of the English heads (or Magistrates) to assist the native assessors as explainers of the law. The native assessors have but little knowledge. The runangas are not quite clear. Our first pakeha sent us by the Governor was Mr. Fenion.. His explanations were very clear, and were understood by us. The second was Doctor (Harsant). We do not understand him. For he speaks the English language (only): we do not understand it. This is my word to you and the Governor. Send us a pakeha (Magistrate) who understands the native language, so that the laws may be explained to us. Mr. Halse is one of the pakehas we have seen. Mr. White is another, it is for this Gonfe-

rence lo consider my request. I have beard thai in iwo years Mr. McLean will go across the sea. While Mr. McLean is with us, ihe laws are good and are explained. Aratna Karaka, (Te Uriobau.) Kaipara: —Chiefs of the Runang? ! This is my word 10 you. Let us consent to the suggestions which the Governor has sent to us. There were two subjects named yesterday: the European head and the Native head. I have not arrived at a decision. When I return to Kaipara T will consider it. If I decide for it I will write and let you know. If I det ide against it, I will also write and let you know. I have oue word to say to you respeciing Tamihana's suggestion, that (native) sol tiers should be set up. This is a weighty subject. Carefully consider it. Let this Conference carefully turn it over in their minds. Chiefs of the Conference, let us all turn in one direction. This is a union of ourselves. —Let our canoe go straight on. Let us pull and sieer it carefully. Do not let us turn back. Mr. McLean, this is my word lo you : let these words be printed in the newspapers audsenlto the Queen, and let the Queen send an answer to us, that it may be a firmly established covenant for us and our children", so that we may be as the Pakehas. The affairs of your ancestors are handed down to the children. Let us have but one law, lest evil arise—lest our canoe rock from side to side. Tamihana Te Rauparaha, (Ngalitoa,) Otaki: I sigh and am affected by the words of Poiatau which we have just heard. The thoughts of the old men are good, but it is the young men who cause them to be evil disposed. Te Rauparaha thought thus before his death. He was greatly attached to the pakeha. We also wish to follow out those sentiments, even until death. My opinion is that if Takiwaru (Kaiij had been alive, Pq.taiM^^ the proposition of VViremu Tamiiiana Tarapipipi. Te Heuheu visited Maiene and myself but we would not consent. We said to him, "Return with those plans: do not bring them here: lake them back to your place." The thoughts of the old man lately deceased are clear. It was the young men who misled him. They are upstarts. That is all I have to say. Wiremu Tipene Takahi, (Te Uriobau,) Kaipara:—Chiefs of the Conference of this Island. This is the runanga of Ihe Queen. Steer this canoe straight, that her keel may

be even. This is an approach on our part lo the Pakehas. This is tbe foundaiion j of ail knowledge. Let us go under the shadow of the Queen. Let us enter into a I mutual covenant with the Pakeha. It is not that we shall derive any great benefit, but our children who come after us will. Let ibis covenant be made firm. The Governor has expressed the loving words of tbe Queen to the Native Chiefs of Nsw Zealand. Let lis also lurn and adopt the laws of the Queen, that we may have but one shadow to protect both the Pakeha and the Maori—that the people of this Island may prosper. Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngatitoa.) Oiaki : Chiefs of the Conference, I have no other word. 1 have said all I have to say to you. My words do not run to and fro: (they express) nothing else than the acceptance of the Queen's authority. But with this tribe, and with that tribe, are their own thoughts. We know with the first Governor there was no other word/even up to this time there was but one word ; that there should be but one law, and that both races should be united. The authority of the Queen rests upon us. Let us cleave lo the good and to the clear customs of the Pakeha. Here also is a word of mine: do not be grieved Mr. McLean. Let the warmth res* upon the Maori, as it does upon the Pakeha. [Meaning that the members of the Conference should receive pay. | Paora Tuhaere, (Ngatiwhatua,) Orakei r I speak respecting the curse of the Pakeha. If lam cursed it will do me no harm. If a Pakeha sirikes me with his fist and my nose bleeds, I shall not strike him in return, but will hold him, and give him up to be tried. I agree with what Matene has said respecting the warmth (pay). This is my word respecting the Commissioners of land, also for the Assessors. Let them be selected by this runanga. Let them be appointed by us. Let us not leave that for the Governor to do l let him simply give his approval. Let us also seek a Pakeha as a superintendent. The Pakeha I should like is Mr. McLean, because I have not yet seen any fault in him. The fault is in the surveyors and purchasers. Formerly I set my people the example of ploughing. They "alf look to ploughing; after that I took a cart as an example to my people; they soon got carts. Now I have (started) a store as a pattern to my people. For this reason I now request that some of the Queen's goods may be placed in my

store. Let the Queen supply one half and I will supply the oilier half. Horomona Toremi, (Ngatiraukawa,) Otaki S—l rise lo speak. The discussion respecting the head (Magistrate) is ended ' r so also is the discussion respecting the mixed Jury. I now speak of my shot, my powder, and gun caps—that the restrictions may be taken off. Let these things be deposited with Mr. Eagar. Some people have accused Eagar of stealing cattle, and said that be ought to be summoned. Other people say that Eagar ought to be brought up on account of his horses and cattle which are J running on our land, in order to make out a j case against Eagar. [Tamihana Te Rauparalia here asked the speaker—"ls theie no other Palieha residing at Otaki ?" Horomona replied, " Eagar has resided there seven years. Thomas is but of yesterday, and the person established by Tamihana is (as it were) of this evening."] Listen, chiefs of the runanga! This is my answer to the suggestion of Mr. McLean, that we should go back to our Maori homes ami consult {runanga). It will not be right. If the Native Runanga had appointed Maiene it would long since have come lo naught. But as it was the Governor, I have strength to uphold him; and now you too must uphold (him). Respecting the suggestion of Thompson for making (Nat : ve) soldiers, do not be eager; also as to a militia do not be eager ; do not be in haste to do it in these days, lest evil arise. But rather let the good effects of this runanga be apparent, and let them spread over our Island. Poruiu, (Ngatiawa,) Wellington: Friend, Mr. McLean. The word of Potatau is wrong when he says, ''Why care fortius thing, or that thing?" Because he has eaten at the same table with the Governor, and ihey had but one bedroom. Why did he not say to his people, Why do you indulge in child's play? Listen, Mr. McLean! Settle the account with me. Do not close ihe road lome (referring to pay, as proposed by Maiene v . The replile that is gnashing its teeth yonder will begin lo laugh, because it will see that what is just has been accomplished. You, the Pakehas, will not work for naught; your work is paid for in money. Te HerewiniTe Amohau, (Ngatiwhakane,) Rolorua: Mr. McLean, there is nothing more to be said. All has been laid before you during the month and a half during which this conference has lasted. I say, respecting the word of Matene, that it is

riglu. Warm the Native side with this round thing (money). Perenara, (Tuhourangi,) Tarawera: The reason for. my rising to speak is, to give utterance to ray opinion respecting our deliberations during the days which are past. The former subjects have.been considered. Do not bring them up again, but now let something fresh be introduced. The first subject brought forward, namely, the Treaty of Waitangi, has been settled. It has been agreed that it shall be a " mana" for all the people. The mixed Jury of twelve has also beeu disposed of. The third subject is the union with the Queen's (Government). In my opinion this is the end (of all disturbances)—the establishment by the Governor of this runanga, that is, that it may be held every year. But in my opinion nothing plain has yet been said about putting an e.id to the war of Te Rangitake. The Governor is fighting in the light, and can see clearly; because the soldiers have been set apart to do that work,—the Magistrates and the Bunanga to take care of the law,-and the Ministers of the Gospel to attend to that work. But with the Maori people it is different. When the Gospel first arrived they all embraced it; but when they engage in wars, there is no dividing them (into different classes)—they all take part in it. There are no Christians, there is no rananga, and there are no devils (heathen). Both body and soul suffer. For this reason I desire that all the opinions should be united—that there should be one opinion in favor of peace. Let Matene and those chiefs of the conference who are going in that direction, acquaint Te Rangitake (with the desire of this conference). There is also a word for me respecting Tamihana's suggestion to set up soldiers, which has been disapproved of. In my opinion we ought not to disapprove; let him express his opinions. Had it been a proposal from the Governor, then it would be right for this conference to take it under consideration. In that case we ought to say, Let it remain in abeyance, that we may enquire into it during coming years; for it would not be right for us to swallow it at once. This is my word respecting what Matene has said about pay. That matter rests with you, Mr. McLean. Wi Pohe, (Parawhau,) Whangarei: I approve of the words of Te Awaitaia which lie spoke yesterday, namely, that we should be bound together in the Queen's bundle. The bundle that will not be separated is that

which is bound wilh iron (fastenings). If a man who is enclosed in this bundle should slip out, that will be a cause of evil. This is what 1 have to say respecting the words of Arama just now, when he said that this conference has but one canoe: now that we have all embarked in one canoe, let us be careful that we do not pull Let all pull in the same direction, as those who sit in the bows; do not let the people in the stern paddle in the opposite direction. Now, respecting the words of Matene, that all should be made warm, and that all should feel the heal: what can be the interpretation of those words ? I think it refers to the round thing (coin). In my opinion that would be plundering the Queen. These are the goods that we ought to contend for now, namely, single-barrel gun?, as a means of warfare wilh the birds of ihe air. /It is for the Conference to consider the words of Tamihana respecting the (Maori) King. Every time he rises to speak he says something in condemnation of ihe King. Arama Karaka, (Te Uriohau,) Kaipara: —-1 rise to speak about the canoe. Chiefs of the Conference, we :>re now embarking in this canoe-both Pakehas and Maories. The Ngapuhi people here have entered this canoe. Let the ca loe be steered wilh care. Now, listen you! Here are three old Chiefs of Ngatiwhatua, namely, Apihai, lhikiera, and Paikea. Now, if I see Apihai turning (lo paddle) backwards, I shall cry out to him, ''Jump out into the water." If lhikiera should turn backwards, he must jump into ihe water; and if Paikea should tarn backwards, he, too, must jump overboard. That is my reply to the words of Wi Pohe. Mr. McLean, listen! This is our thought respecting your words, to the effect that this is the influential rununga of this island. (Our opinion is) that the non-attendance of the Ngatipaoa is not a matter for consideration. My reply to ihe words of Matene is, that they are right. Because it appears lome that ihe Ministers who are sent to this Island get remuneration, and ihe Magistrates get remuneration, and the Government (officers) get remuneration. This will promote union —to make all warm together. Ihakara, (Ngatiraukawa,) Manawalu:—l do not approve of the suggestion of Tamihana about enlisting (native) soldiers at our settlement, because this has a tendency to produce irritation. This is my word in

reference to Matene's suggestion that all be I made warm together. Matene's words are ! correct, because tire house is one and the people are one. The name of the house is the Government. It is not right to open one door and leave another closed, but all should be open alike. This also applies to the (sale of) powder, because the house is one; therefore, I say, let it be altogether open. Eruera Paluone, (Ngapuhi,) Awataha:— This is my word respecting the reptile which has been spoken of. In my opinion, Chiefs of the Conference, this refers to Te Rangitake— to bis fighting with the Governor at Taranaki. My advice is, let that reptile remain there to do its own work. Let us from this side look away to the South and then a*vay to the North, even to the Reinga (North Cape). Let us watch the hawk as he sails about in search of rats. As soon as he has secured a rat he flies away with.it. Look at that, ye Chiefs of this Conference, and ye tribes of this Island. Understand what you see, lest there be evil. : Parakaia Te Pouepa, Gtaki:—l shall continue to find fault with the words of this Conference. There are three words of which I disapprove. I now find that the proceedings of this Conference arewilhout meaning. In my opinion, those questions have already been settled, and it is not therefore right to discuss them again. Do you not consider that we have dined in company with the Governor, and that he has spoken words to you ? If one tribe take food with another tribe that implies the establishment of love (between them). In like manner, Christ, when he had finished his work, took bread with his disciples. This was the way in which he confirmed bis love to his apostles. In what direction can you fly now? for you have taken food with the Governor. Te Awaitaia has told us about (the fable of) the bundle of slicks. His words are correct. If the Conference have but one method,«who shall break it? But if the words of this Conference are divided, then they will be broken and evil will arise. This is my reply to the words of Paora, of Te Rira, and of Matene, about the money belonging to the Queen and the Governor. It is wrong that the children should ask for money. My view is that I came here to seek explanations which we might carry home with us. As to asking for money, that is wrong. Governor's money. My plan is, that we

should collect money, whether for the Conference, for the house, or for some other purpose, tf it amounts to 2J., then, when the Governor hears of it, he will give us2J.; if it amounts to sl. he will give us oJ. As to applying for money before we have raised any ourselves, that is wrong. In the same way, now that we have raised 911. for a (public) road, let us ask the Governor to give us other 911. •r Now, respecting the words of Te Rira, that the Governor should give us some remuneration, that it may be manifest to those people who are called reptiles,— that is to say, those who are turning to the King,—so that they may say, "Ah! if I had attended the Governor's meeting I should have secured some riches": in my opinion this is paying honor to the Maori parly and coaxing the Queen's party. Meeting adjourned to Bth instant. Wednesday, August 8, 18G0. The Native Secretary rose and said:—Let those chiefs who have expressed their opinions give place now (o those who have not yet spoken; lest any one should go home and say that he had not an opportunity allowed him of addressing the Conference. Some of the chiefs have expressed a wish to speak on the subject of the Taranaki war, that we may hea 1 * their views. Let those who are interested in the subject take it up. We have just received news from Taranaki. The newspapers state that war is still raging. A few unarmed men have been shot by the Natives. They have advanced nearer to the town and are plundering the settlers' horses and cattle. I may here inform you that in English councils it is the custom for members to give notice in writing of the subject on which they intend- to speak on a future day. Members are thus prepared to discuss subjects in the order in which they have been notified; and all disorder or confusion is thus obviated. I simply mention this that you may think it over. - Hohepa Tamaihengia, (Ngaliloa,) Porirua : Listen ye of the rnnanga! My words shall have reference to my land ; afterwards I shall speak about Taranaki. Friends, listen to the system adopted by those Pakehas who have no land. Their pigs, horses, [turkeys, and geese are being multiplied on our lands—those which were set apart by you and Governor Grey for our benefit. There is a Pakeha named McCaul (?) a shoemaker residing on our land, and his cattle and pigs are trespassing, for they are running on our land. 1 say, in the hearing of this Uunanga, that this man should return to the Pakeha side. DeCasJro is another. His goods (slock) are maintained on our land. The Bishop is another : that land was reserved foyttthoof for our children. We consented to

give up this land for (Ihe purposes of) a school for our children, on account of his (the Bishop's) good words to us. The name of the land is Whilireia.i The only pupils injhat, school^now are cattle atf6* uv ((he animals) in the " bail-up." The difficulties about those lands which are blocked up is that there is not now room for those for whom the land was originally set apart. The Bishop and Mr. De Castro have got all the land. Enough on that subject. I shall not attempt to bppose'tfie Governor's plan. Let the Governor's plan be allowed to stand. What we are now looking at is the Maori side. Le*\c the plan to himself. But if the Maori side be arranged, then let the men go and carry the words of this Conference to Te Rangilake. I shall urge Ibis a second lime, and a third lime, and even to a sixth and seventh time. If lam not listened to after the seventh appeal, then I shall say, I will endeavour no longer with you. The old men, Manuwhiri and Takaratai, who may make the path and enquire into this evil, are still living. I say nothing about the disputed piece of land at Waitara that belongs to Ihe Governor; that piece of land will not occasion much concern. Consider this: the rain descends and it is afterwards fine ; the gale blowelh and it is followed by a caltn. So it is with man. But perhaps you (the Pakehas) are strong to keep up your anger; for you are a people accustomed to lhat work. Tshall continue to urge that the Waitara aflfair be settled. . Wfremu..Xamihaoii \ ; - Je N JNekc, (Ngaliawa,) "Wamartae: Listen ye of this Conference! The laws of England are good, and the love of (he Queen is good, but there are some men who abuse them. This is what 1 know ! People came from England bringing good and true things; we examined them, and (hen we look hold of them and adopted them for our own use. "We upheld the portion which you handed to us, and you still retained the other portion. We seized hold of the lower part; we' did not secure the upper. This is not the first occasion on which we have been taught in what is right: We, through our ignorance, have been slow to learn what we have been taught. Pakehas have urged me to follow their plans: (that I did not do so) was my own fault and the result of my own ignorance. For this reason I say the laws of lha Queen are clear, and so is her love. My own ignorance has been the source of my troubles. Enough about lhat.

These are Ihe benefits which you are confetv ring on us: the Maories are being ordained ministers. My willingness (to be a minister) is in my heart. But my fear is that should 1 consent, it might not be long after before I had turned back (to my former ways). That subject is ended. I shall not be strong (to speak) now about the fighting which is going on yonder. If the evil rested with me (i. e. with my tribe) alone, then I might speak. I, that is Ngatiawa, commenced it, then Ngatiruanui and Taranaki joined in it, and now Waikalo also is implicated. If the evil rested with me alone, then I might endeavoured to dp something: had Ngatiawa alone teen concerned, then I should have spoken with power. I have no influence in this matter. The evil will spread, and perhaps other tribes will become concerned in it. My evil will cause the death of men; perhaps even the men (soldiers) of Port Jackson will die from this evil. 3 in this war. Tli'e nghTkind of death is that arising trom natural causes. This death (in war) is bad for both Maories and Pakehas, I feel regard for those tribes who are living in ignorance. I feel regard for the Pakehas also. Why should they die because of my evil ? Therefore I say, lei us do our work well; let us be careful in laying down plans for our guidance. Let us have a good canoe in which to sail, that we may enjoy these good things. When we see anything good we desire it at once. guir was,considered,a great treasure; but when "gunsbecame plentiful the people became careless about Ihem. In like manner will it be with the King, (mpyemenl) ; before long it will be abandoned Hori Winiala, (Ngapuhi,) Kaipara : Here we are standing under the laws of the Queen. My sin is not of today—you know all about it. 1 asked myself, How shall 1 secure an entrance into the laws of the Queen ? When I had considered, I parted with my land (to the Government} so that 1 might enter. For I am acquainted with the system of the (military) officers. The captains and the colonels pay for their admission to the work of soldiers. The Treaty of Waitangi is good. The good things of this Island sprang from them. Had it not been for that Treaty, (our island) would have been taken by another nation. Ngapuhi said, Our land will be taken by the French; give us a Governor to protect this Island. When he was stationed here, then the color [flag-slaff] was erected at Maiki [in the Bay of Islands]. Some low-bred Pakehas deceived us, and the flag-staff was cut down. But now the sin of Ngapuhi is at an end. 1 have nothing more to say. Hohaia Pokaitara, (Ngatitoa,) Porirua : Our good-will leads us to say, Take us to Taranaki. 1 belong to the smallest tribe ; it was the sword that thinned us. That was the reason of our

sellling >at Kapili, and thus were saved, the Ngalitoa, (he Ngaliawa, and the Ngatiraukawa. These three tribes are now bound together as in one bundle. And now that sickness is further reducing our tribe, we begin to think (hat we shall find another Kapili [i. e. a refuge] under the shadow of the Queen. Wiremu Tamihana has said that he feels concern for (he Pakehas who are dying at Waitara. But, Mr. McLean, lake me to Waitara that 1 may say to this tribe and lo that tribe, " Return to your place and die there [in peace]." Ridicule is a bad thing. Do not let us indulge in ridicule lest this Conference be called " Taunu." I disapprove of [the conduct of] the Maori. He speaks good words while his thoughts take a different course. When a man is Maori [in his habits] he will be called a Maori ; his skin and his thoughts are alike dark. Now that we are united lo the Pakehas let us be altogether white. All of us assembled here are chiefs. When we see that Ihe views of any one chief are clear, let us all adopt them. This is my word lo you, Mr. McLean, Let me—that is, the Ngaliloa-be taken lo Taranaki. Te Rira Porulu, (Ngaliawa,) Wellington :—I have no views to express. Those subjects are disposed of. I have only one matter to speak of, and that is to find fault with my own tribe. They are wrong in two respects, namely, in withholding the land and in shooting Pakehas. 1 will repeat the names of the Chiefs of my tribe. How was it that Wi Taupunga and his brother Bare did not consider that those Pakehas were mere travellers, and therefore allow them lo proceed ? How was it that Aperahama and Te Kohu did not say, Do not kill the Pakehas who are merely travelling on their own business: -why do you not go and fight with the soldiers ? How was it that Herora and his son Hoani Koinaki did not say, Bo not kill Pakehas who are proceeding on their own business ? My words now shall refer to Kairoa. How was it that Koroliwha did not instruct his people to leave the Pakeha children lo go unharmed? Now about Pukerangiora. How was it that the Chief of that settlement did not give inslruclions that the Pakehas who Were proceeding on their own business should not be killed? TcAwaitaia, listen! I made two charges: that they withheld Ihe land, and that they killed Pakehas; for these Pakehas were not killed in fair fight. Those whom I have named are the Chiefs. My words of disapproval have gone forth: you have heard them. Have I not made two (charges) ? Then do not say that I do not blame my tribe. " ::^|j^QjplJK9Jl consider that ifwas to Taranaki? The Governor and Mr. McLean lifted up guns in the sight of the Maories, and evil arose. The evil of the Maories is very great. When the fish of the sea are drawn to the shore in a seine they do not all perish some escape. When I was subdued by Te Awaitaia, 1 did not perish, for here we are speaking (face to face). Enough on that subject.

Mr. McLean, I shall not surrender Governor Grey's (boundary) line to you or lo Mr. Parris. Bui you should send a surveyor lo inspect this land. God is the protector of that line. Whal is the use of saying that (Governor) Grey's name shall be struck off (hat line? For both God [meaning justice]and Governor Grey will protect that line. [This is in reference to a Crowai Grant held by Te Rira (for land at Wellington), the plan on the margin of which is alleged by the chief surveyor to be incorrect. A proposal to alter the same was strongly resented by the Natives.] Moroali, (Ngatiraakawa,) Olaki:—We came here for the purpose of working out something good. I rise to reply lo the speech of Hohepa. It will not be right to keep back the words of life: rather let them be taken and unfolded to them (at Taranaki). My words now shall have reference to out* houses. The wood (may be taken to represent} one man, the raupo [flags] another, the kakaho [reeds] another, the toetoe [thatch] another, the harakeke [flax] anothei. When Ihese materials are used by a man in building, they all share in the name of "house." I will now make my comparison. The Pakeha has been a distinct man, and the Maori another, during the past vears. The Governor caused the Chiefs of this"lsland lo be assembled here, and we have given utterance to our words of allegiance to the Governor and to the Queen. We have now become one. The Governor has said, Be faithful in your adherence tome; for the Governor has confirmed the assurance of his sentiments towards us by coining here and dining with us. That was the manner in which the Governor made manifest his desire that the Pakchas and Maories should be united. Now, then, I believe that the Queen's assurances are sincere. The Queen's words were that the Pakeha should not assume superiority over the Maori, and that the Maori should not be superior to the Pakeha, but that they should be altogether equal. This was another word of hers. She said lo the Governor, "Go you and be a father to the Maori people." When the Governor visited Otaki, the Chiefs assembled lo talk with him. The Governor said, " I will be a father to you, and you shall be my children." As to the laws [Dr. Martin's Rules] which Mr. McLean has submit led lo us, I propose that we take them lo our homes and consider them there. This is all I have to say. We did nol come here to decuss this thing and lhat thing; but we came to search for something io preserve life, because blood has been shed in the midst of our Island. My word now is this. -Formerly, there were many! who could settle those fights; now it will be!

for Hohepa and me lo do it. With new men the plans are new. Ye of the Conference, listen! This is a proposal for separating- (the combatants): it is a proof of our goodwill, because it is a plan for preserving men's lives. Now, then, men of the Conference, let this proposal be carried lo William King. £*» Ihakara, (Ngatiraukawa,) Manawatu:—l approve of the suggestion about Wahara. It is not a request to the Governor to put an end to the war, no; but mv desire is that we may be permitted to go to William King and to take our words to him; because my heart weeps much on account of the waste of men's lives in this foolish work. This is our reason for asking permission to go lo William King, that we may say to him, •* Are you not tired of this fighting?" And if Wi should reply that he is not tired of it, that we may say to him, u The people of this Island have engaged in many works Cwars) and they have always got tired." For, my friends, great is our regard for those who have been wasiod in death. Do not suppose, Mr. McLean, that it is defiance to you and the Governor. Let your opinions (in reference to the war; remain unchanged. As for this, we will go to William King. If he should listen lo our word, it is well. But you (and the Governor) must find out the course your side will pursue. AVe ask only one thing of you: permit us to go. All that is required of you is ' : Yes." ' Nopcra Te Ngiha, (Ngaiiioa,) Porirua:—l wish to speak about my first sin, which caused me lo be considered the enemy of the Pakeha. Government) on"accoanfof'soaie land-sale, and men fell at the Butt. It was then that I did wrong. But after my sin I repented, and continue lo do so even lo this day. The Governor calleJ this Conference together, and I accordingly came and stood up in the Governor's room. This rocm is a place in which we are to seek for (the means of promoting) our prosperity. When this Conference is over let us go to Te Rangitake. It was lo this intent that Wiremu Tamihana said he had regard for both Pakehas and Maories, and lhat this runanga should go to Taranaki. It was this regard which induced Christ to come clown from Heaven into this world to die for man. In like manner, let us carry good words to Wiremu Kingi, and then if he should be disagreeable and should fiing dust into our lace, what of it? Now then Ngatiraukawa,

and Ngalitoa, and all ye of the Conference, what say you? [Some assent.] * ManiheraMatang!.(iNgaiiawa,) Wellington: —MaTetie atuf Tam'Thana, yoji have both said lliat we should go to Taranaki. Now I say yes. I consent to what the two of you have said. But lam thinking that we shall not get near enough to speak with him ["William King] in a house, and mouth to mouth. My opinion is that we should first take their words to the old men of Wellington, of Arapaoa, and of Waikanae, so that To Puni may hear them ; and when he has given his consent, ihen let us come Northwards again to Taranaki. If this plan had emanated from, the Governor, then it might be right. As for the plan which we are discussing, we may go to to the town (at Taranaki) and remain there (without a chance of pulling it into effect). What I have been thinking of is that we should have an interview with William King in a house, so that we may properly communicate our words lo him. As it is, however, you may go lo the town and send your letter to him. We shall not, perhaps, see William King. We shall not rea lily consent to what you propose liohepa. When the old men 'alluded to above) have approved of it, then I will consent. This is ail I have lo say. Mele Kingi, (Ngapoutama,) Whanganui: Mr. McLean, listen! The subject of Wailara again. The proposal of Ng.uiraukawa is good, namely, that they should go and talk with William King. Listen lo my word. Send me back to my home that I may convey your treasures [proposals] to my house. When I get there I will turn and look back. Listen! Ngarauruis looking towards Ngatiruanui, though they will not actually join in the fight. I am considering also "about Whenua-kura and Patea. Mr. McLean, it will be for you and the Governor to direct me to go and see these tribes. These tribes remained quiet and did not join in the fight when Ngatiruanui and Taranaki committed the murders. In my opinion it rests with you and the Governor (to direct me), lest the Pakehas should say that I had gone there to tell lies, for the Pafcehas behave very ill to the people who visit Whenua-kura. Formerly, the tribes of Whanganui and Ngatiruanui were ene; now they are distinct and separate. Horopapera Pukeko, (Ngalitoa,) Porirua: As in theproverb, •$ The chattering birds have no chiefs or anything of the sort; ihey are

equal because there is no chief"—so is it with'Ngaiiawa; they have no chiefs. For this reason I say, let me go to Taranaki that I may disclose my words. If he (William King) should consent, it is well ; if he should turn away, the matter rests wiih himself, j Friends, we have new come near to the! Governor, ana are s'auoned beside him. These are the Governor's words to us, "Do you cleave to me and I will cleave to you." The Governor has opened the highway to us; let us, therefore, keep in that path. Do not let us turn aside or we may be lost amongst the old paths. It is like unto a man looking at himself in a mirror. He looks and there is his exact likeness. My meaning is that the Governor is the mirror, and that we should look sledfastly at him. Hukiki, ( Ngatiraukawa, ) Otaki : Listen, ye of the conference! I shall reply to the proposal of Hohepa that we should go to Taranaki. What I say is, consent, all of you, to this proposal. We have been saying, "I accept the authority of the Queen and of the Governor." Now if we (of the Conference) demand that the war between William King and the Governor be brought to an end, I shall say, " Let Wiremu Kingi and the Governor consider their own war." Listen, Mr. McLean ! When we were coming away from the South, Ngatiraukawa assembled to bid us farewell. The first man rose and said, "Go ye, and arrange the war of William King, and discuss the matter of the Maori King." I then rose and said, *• Those matters to which you refer are heavy [difficult]." j Tamihana Te Rauparaha, (Ngatitoa,) Otaki: I disapprove of the suggestion that we should go to Taranaki. It will not be right to go, because the outrages and murders of that people have become many. Had this been (proposed) at the time of our leaving Wellington, when there had been only one "fight, then our course would have been clear. But now that Waikato is concerned in the evil, what can be done ? Do not let us be afraid. This work (fighting) belongs to certain people: then leave these people to carry out their evil work. Presently they "will be tired of their foolish doings. But let lis keep to our own work; rather let us return to our homes and carry out this workof burs. I say, there is no road for me to Tara--Raki. I shall return to my home, at Otaki,

to carry out those works which I prefer, ond which wiil benefit my body. These are my words in reply to Wiremu Tamihana. He says, do not condemn the Maori Kinc fmovemer.t). Perhaps he is afraid, and on that account refuses to condemn it. In my opinion it is right that we should disapprove of that foolish work. Tukibaumene Te Amohau, (Ngatiwhakaue,) Rotorua: If it were in accordance with what my broiher Tamihana Te Rauparaha has said, I should consent lo peace being established. This is my word—the Queen and the Governor shall be my parents. All the world will not see the meaning of the words which I am about lo give utterance to: once, twice, thrice, four limes, ten times—it expires. Where shall the end be? When the Governor shall sav "End it," then it will end. Meeting adjourned to 9lh instant. Thursday, August 9th, iB6O. The Native Secretary : My friends, Chiefs of the Conference ! I have a few words to say to you. I have conferred with the Governor as to when this runanga shall be brought to a close. His Excellency has recommended to the General Assembly, now sitting in Auckland, thatanolher Conference like the present should be convened next year. Your petition also on that subject has been laid before the House. The question will probably be discussed to-morrow. The Governor is anxious that the result should be communicated to you before yoii separate. I cannot, therefore, state positively when our session will be over, but I think it likely that Saturday will be the last day. It is, perhaps, your desire to speak again to-day on the subject treated of by the Ngatitoa Chiefs yesterday. If so, speak on. Let me, however, say a few words to you. Many of you have expressed a strong wish that Te Rangitake's war should be brought to a close. You have offered to go aud see him, and exhort hirn to sue for peace. My opinion is that any efforts of this kind from without will have little avail with William King. The desire for peace must emanate from the people themselves who are engaged in the war. Other tribes may have clear views, but what will that avail if the fighting tribes are bent on mischief? Nevertheless, the Governor wi!! not put any hindrance in the way of those who may resolve to see William King, and lo talk to him of peace.

[The Native Secretary concluded with some observations in reply to the speeches of Mohi and Te Rira Porutu.] TamihanaTe Rauparaha, (Ngatitoa,) Olaki: There are two matters on which I am now thinking. One is the urgent request to go to Taranaki; the other is (the proposal) to return home. But let ihese questions be goveined by the will of the majority : let the minority be considered in the wrong. Our relation with the Njraliawa is not of recent dale. What 1 say is, that this war has now increased, and we had better return to our homes. Let them (Te Rangitake and the Governor) go on till ihey are. satisfied, and then perhaps they will become easy with each other. If this had been the commencement of the war, then our course would be clear; but as it is, they have been committing murders, aud killing treacherously. But let us consider this. Presently, if we should go to Taranaki, the people will ridicule us and say, " They have been paid to come here.' Still I have affection for William King. Now, if be should decide on returning to Waikanae, and abandoning that place (Taranaki,) it is good. But let us return to our homes and carefully consider this subject. Let us find out some proper words in reference to this question. Let us also remember that they are a people who understand fighting: inasmuch as tbey make peace, and rub noses, and they turn again and commit murders. Let us decide on some plan in reference to Taranaki. If you prevail, and there is a majority on your side, then be it according to your proposal: our opposition will at once cease. '*•: As to the Natives who are finding fault with Mr. McLean about the land, (I say) there are faults with the Maories themselves. Because I know the affairs of our place. One source of the troubles of our Kainga was the sale to (Col.) Wakefield in the early limes. Forrrerly, when the Maories were in ignorance, they bartered the land for a cannon—only one. It was Captain (who gave it). That pakeha then said thai all Wairau had been paid for with this cannon. When Wakefield came to Port Jackson, the Captain's wife sold this

land lo him, and received large payment for ii. This was ihe source of ihe troubles at Wairau. Afterwards Heretaunga was sold to Governor Fit? Roy, for four hundred pounds, —two hundred pounds of which was given to To Rangihaeata, and the remainder to Te Rauparaha. Te Rangihaeata expended his share in the purchase of a vessel which afterwards foundered in Porirua harbour. After this Te Rangihaeata returned to this land and attempted to retain it, but he was repulsed by the Pakehas and ihe Maories, and having fled to the mountains, the ocean was again calm (i.e. peace was established). (Thesej our elders are now dead. I have not seen anything wrong in Mr. McLean's manner of purchasing our lands. It is the Natives themselves who cause the difficulties. For it is he (Mr. McLean,) alone who seules all the difficult questions. For this reason the Maories have said. " Let him be a Governor, because his proceedings with the Maories are very clear." It is jealousy which has caused some Maories lo find fault with Mr. McLean, and with the Pakehas also. Wi Tako also is finding fault with the Pakehas without reason. It was he whogave the land to ibePakchasal Welling ton. The portion of land in the town which remained lo him, and is called Kumutoio, is leased by hi in to the Pakehas, and he receives a large rental for it. Having wasted his goods in giving feasts to the people, he has become impoverished, and on this account he turns round and speaks ill of the Pakehas. He has asserted that ihe Pakehas have taken away some of the lands belonging to the Natives. He has said this to some of the Maories, in order lo induce them to imitate him in speaking ill of the Pakehas. Hemi Maiini, (Xgatimahanga,) Whaingaroa : I rejoice on account of Mr. McLean's word. According to my view, there is nothing wrong in the Governor. In the days of Noah there was no repentance. In the days of Lot and Abraham there was no repentance in Sodom and Gomorrah. In the days also of Moses and Aaron there was no repentance. These were the punishments of God in former limes on those who were evil. While the children of Israel were sojourning in Egypt the Lord afflicted the Egyptians, even up lo the time of the departure of the Israelites. When they pursued the Israelites to the Red Sea, God visited them in great anger. That was the punishment for their wickedness. The laws that were laid down for the Pakehas were ten in number. These were accompanied by

the promise, " I will shew mercy to thou-, sands of ihem that love me and keep my | commandments." The laws are, Do not! kill, do not commit adultery, do not steal,! &c. My speech is now clear. If you are j grieved, remember that the Governor is punishing the sins. Here is a man of Ngapuhi silling here who having committed a' sin has repented of it. In my opinion this is the punishment of God that the people may be brought to repentance. It is right that the Governor should punish our sins. Do not suppose that we can gain anything good (by the war at Taranaki). No : rather let the Governor's land be given up, and let the murderers also be surrendered: then only will there be peace. Hetaraka Nero, (Ngatimahanga,) Whalngaroa: My words refer to Te Teira and William King. Mr. McLean and the Governor were staying at thai place (Taranaki). When ihe land was offered for sale, Mr. McLean investigated the title according to the custom ofland purchase. The nature of Te Teira's claim induced the Governor to side with him; then w ifliam Ring was grieved, evil sprang up in his heart, and he declared war with the Governor. Subsequently there was murder, and the evil then assumed a more serious aspect. I shall now speak of Waikato. The vVaikato. (pep.pl.ej set up a Maori of this was toßoTd the land. When Teßangitake heard that his own idea was being carried out, his heart rejoiced. lam speaking ill of Waikato and \\ iremu Kingi. I say, that evil will increase. In these tim?s my ears have heard indistinctly that those tribes have been acting treacherously, and the opinion (respecting them) cannot be concealed. This Island is filled with the evils of the Maories. lam willing thai you should go and carry goodness to that place. These are the good things—peace and goodwill. But there is no atonement for these offences against the Government. Te Waaka Te Ruki, (Ngatimahanga,) Whaingaroa:—Mr. McLean, lhad supposed that Pukekohe had been fairly restored 16 us by the Governor. lam residing on this land. 1 had supposed that this land had been fairly returned to Mohi. What faith is to be put in that land ? In the time of Governor Filzroy that land was returned to us. On our return together from Waikato I pointed out my lands to you, even to the mouth of the Waikato river. We went to Is'gaiiiipa, because thisiribe had fought for the land, and the Waikato Chiefs were dead.

I asked theNgatitipa to give up the Whakaupoko. ttuihana consented. All Ngatitipa consented, and the land was then ceded to you. That land was taken, men's lives were saved, and there was no fighting. ■t (Ngaliawa,) Wellington':'—f propose to follow the words of Tamihana. lam listening aright to the words which Mr. McLean has just spoken. If those words are from the Governor they are very sweet to my ears. We shall assent to these words because they have come to us in the name of the Governor. But there is one thing which will prevent onr saying anything on this subject, namely, the death of Waikato people at Taranaki. This will prevent our saying a word about the proposal respecting William King. If Waikato was not concerned, then we could arrange the affairs for William King, and the words would go right. But let Te Awaitaia make some proposal about the loss of Waikato, then our words may go right. If the Governor should have a plan for avenging the murders at Taranaki he will be left to carry it out. When he has finished with Taranaki, then I will go there, because the dead are mine. Paora Kukuiai, who has been killed, was a relative of mine. I shall speak about the dead because they are mine. If we should go now and attempt to make peace our words would not be listened to; nor should we see our friend William King. He will be alone in the house speaking "his words: we shall not be able to enter. Parakai aTara roa, (Tub ou ra ngi ,)Tarawera: I shall not speak the same words as the rest of us. They have a law, and we have a law. I say this because of the words of Ngatitoa. Hohepa has proposed our going to Taranaki to Te Rangilake. lam willing that you should go and convey (to him) the words of this meeting. If it had been two months (hence) then all the Chiefs of the Conference would go there. Now I shall speak about my land. My land has not yet sent forth the steam of its breath. When a man opens his mouth the breath ascends to the nostrils, but the breath (or vapour) of my land has not yet found its way into the ocean. It was the money that caused the difficulty about our road. The people say that the spades, the hatchets, the pick-axes, and the axes were (given) in payment for the land. They say, the land will be gone; for this reason our minds are enquiring; and we look to you (Mr. McLean) to explain it to us.

The Native Secretary: I have a word to I say to those who talk of visiting Taranaki. It is not likely that the Governor would restrain any one, inasmuch as he permitted Hohepa to go to Taranaki some time since. I am thinking of the proposal of Waikato to go there. Waikato went, but the matter was not settled. Perhaps any further efforts would be equally unavailing. The means of putting an end to this evil rests rather with the tribes of the place. • i This is ray word in reply to Parakaia. It j was on account of the road alone that the \ money was paid. It was not announced as payment for the land. It was given as compensation for the sweat and labour of the Natives who worked on this road. That compensation money has nothing to do with the land. Hemi Parai. (Ngatiawa,) Wellington: Ye the Runanga, listen ! This is what I have to say to you. I intend it as a question. With the Governor and Mr. McLean are tjeir own thoughts. As to the proposal of Hohepa, is it to be swallowed by this Assembly of Chiefs—by Ngatiwhakaue, by Wiremu Te Awaitaia, and by Ngapuhi? I have nothing more to say. Rapihana Te Oiaola, (Ngatiloa.) rua:—Listen, ye Chiefs of this Conference. I have no words to bring up from either side, because the paths of goodness and the Queen's authority have been made clear. Therefore I say let the proposal of Hohepa respecting William King be carried out; for at this time he is suffering from famine —he has neither food nor water. The clear food be has allowed to pass away from him and the clear water he has allowed to pass away: the only food he has now is white clay, and the only drink he has now is muddy water. For this reason I say, let peace be offered to Wiremu Kingi, that the command of the Scriptures mav be fulfilled—"lf thine enemy hunger, feed him: if he thirst give him drink." The food to be supplied to him is goodness, and the drink is peace. We are expressing our desire that some good words be carried to William King, because he is under a law and we are under a law. He has heard the law and we too have heard the law. These tribes, Ngatitoa and Ngatiraukawa, came here in order to seek the preservation of life. Therefore I say, let these two tribes be conveyed intothe presence of Wiremu Kingi. If he should not give his consent, then the matter is his own. If he should consent, %mn it will be well.

WiremuTamihana,(Ngaliawa,) Waikanae: Tamihana (Teßauparaha)and I agree in our views. Your reference to Hie descendants of Te Rauparaba and Te Rangihaeata is right. I have only one word to say. I shall not be willing to land when we get to Taranaki; rather let us return to our homes, and carefully consider the matter, and then if our ciders approve of it, wc will go there. Nevertheless, Hohepa, whether you land there, or whether we return " to our homes, we will be unanimous in this matter. Matene Te Whiwhi, (Ngatiloa,) Otaki : I approve of both suggestions. This will be the right plan. When we get to Taranaki, let a letter be sent to William King. If he does not yield, then let us proceed on our way home. When we arrive at the South let us assemble the tril es who reside there, —Ngatiawa, Ngalitoa, and Ngatiraukawa,— and if we should be able to decide on some plan then let us return loTaianaki. If not, that is enough. Arama Karaka, (TeUriohau,)Kaipara: Mr. McLean has said that there are two roots. My thoughts are dwelling on that. I shall also keep my attention to the Taranaki question. I shall give utterance to my thoughts that you may hear them. The Gospel weighed on the minds of men and! the light of day shone forth. Te Rangihaeata said, Let there be night, and it was night. Ngapuhi did the like. By carrying the Gospel 10 the dark places, light sprang up. In this instance William King is silting in darkness : let him be brought into the light. Listen you !—Mr. McLean and Mr. Smith. The land belonged to Te Teira and William King. Te Teira parted with his portion. William King saw this, and he thought that his half was not left to him. I say, let William King's half be made good to him. If the Conference should go to Tarauaki, and say to William King "Give up the land to the Governor, and you shall have one half of tha payment," and he should refuse, then the Governor is right and he (William King) is wrong. This is a suggestion of my own: it is not an opinion emanating from the Conference. Tahana Turoa, (Patutokotoko,) Whanganui:—l am pleased with what you (thel Chiefs) have said. It is right that we should j consider this matter of Te" Rangilake, in order that we may understand it. I Paora Tuhaere, (Ngaliwhalua,) Orakei:— \ I shallspeak in reply to TeManihcra's words.' In my view it is right that we should carry j

words of peace (lo Te RaDgitake). lam clear (or satisfied) respecting Waikato. Will you not consent that letters be written to the Chiefs of Waikato asking their acquiescence in our plans? In my opinion they would consent. HoromonaToremi,(Ngatiraukawa,)Otuki: ~-Mr. McLean, Matene is right in saying thai there should be two attempts—the one proposed by Tamihana, and the one proposed by Hobepa. I agree with Hohepa about going to Waitara. Ido not approve of going home first and then returning. The Ngatiawa speak falsely in saying that when they get to Kapiti they will return. How was it that they did not go there after the death of Rawiri Waiaua, and of Katatore? These tribes did not come up (to Taranaki) at that time; in like manner, they will not return to Waitara to establish peace there. And now, Mr. McLean, (I tell you) I shall not come back. Perenara, (Tuhourangi,) Tarawera : This is my word. We understand this war. Peace will not be estbalished; but let us not consider that. Tamihana has proposed that they should return to the South, and decide upon the question of going to Waitara. I reply to that: that opinion emanates from themselves—it is not the opinion of the Conference. Again, how was it that whilst they were there they did not look into the matter? I say, let the decision be unanimous. When we go forth with these words of peace, let it be known that they are the words of the whole Conference. The word of the Conference will carry authority with it, because it will be communicated to Te Rangiiake. If he should be defiant, what will that avail, when the words for peace have become established, leaving him no alternative? He will by and bye consent to that same proposal of peace. Ngahuruhuru, (Ngatiwhakaue,) Rotorua: —We shall return to our homes and attend to this matter (the establishment of peace), that is to say when this runanga of all runangas, assembled by the Governor, has closed; and we shall take the result to Te Rangiiake and then there will be an end (to the fighting). Then indeed word will be returned to the Governor that the war, as far as the Maori side is concerned, is at on end; and the land will be given up as payment for the slain on the Pakeha side. This is all I have to say. Meeting adjourned to 10th instant.

Friday, August 10, 1860. The Native Chiefs having assembled, the Native Secretary intimated to them thai the principal business of the Conference would close on this day, and that His Excellency the Governor would, in person, dismiss them on the morrow. He then acquainted them with his intention of visiting his native land as soon as the affairs of this country are in a more settled stale. In conclusion he suggested to them that before separating they should arrive at some definite expression of opinion on the several subjects which had been brought under their notice during their deliberations. Accordingly a series of resolutions, particulars of which appeared in our last, were, adopted by the Conference and forwarded to the Governor. On the following day His Excellency formally dismissed the Conference, under very gratifying circumstances, a full account of which appeared in last "Messenger." We take this opportunity of mentioning that Te Matutaera Kaniwhaniwha, a chief of the Ngatihourua, arrived at Kohimarama a few days before the Conference closed, and look his seal therein. Sickness, we are told, prevented his earlier attendance.