AN INTERVIEW.

Marlborough Express, Volume XLI, Issue 307, 31 December 1907, Page 3

AN INTERVIEW.

On his arrival in Wellington Mr Hardie granted a few minutes' interview to a representative of the New Zealand Times.

Asked if he could give his opinion as to the relative position of the working classes in the various Eng-lish-speaking countries he had visited, Mr Hardie said .he was struck with the leisureliness of life in the Australian colonies; it was in marked contrast to that of either Canada or the United States.

"The conditions of life," said Mr Hardie, " are certainly much easier in Australia. There is far less rush and more solid comfort than in either Canada or America. And so far as I could gather during my stay in Auckland and on my journey to Wellington, conditions in New Zealand are easier still"—but, of course, this can be only for a time. As your lands are opened up and industrialism develops your towns, what has taken place in other lands will take, place here—the growth of the national wealth, conserved in the hands of the few, the growth of poverty among the workers whose labour produced that wealth. That is provided capitalism is allowed to develop in the usual way; and considering the position of New Zealand, combined with the facts that capitalism is international, and New Zealand depends on the London market, not only do I fail to see how much such development can be stayed (apart from absolute Socialism^ but I'm rather inclined to think it will develop at an increased ratio." Have you formed any opinion us to our system of arbitration and conciliation ? '

."I have not had the opportunity of hearing a case before the New Zealand Court, but I did visit the Court at Newcastle, N.S.W., and I frankly confess that to me it seemed as if the most necessary element of arbitration was absent. The men's cause was handled by the union secretary, and handled well, but the employers' representative had all the arts and tricks of the smart lawyer, and while ignorant of technicalities of the trade whose demands he was opposing, and. the bearing of the same on the matters in dispute, yet, by his knowledge of and ability to present just such phases of the case as would appeal to the judicial mind, he was able to score well on the very points where the workers' representative found himself most handicapped. Do you think the three-party system, as you saw it in Australia, of any advantage to the workers as a class, or in the interests of Australia as a nation? "You must not-ask me to pro-, nounce an opinion as to the general policy of the Australian Labour party. I have only had a peep afc the conditions there ,and cannot be expected, unless you give me credit for powsrs of discenrment which I do not claim to possess, to say what should or should not be the policy of the party. I understand it is decided by the democratic vote of the members, and it would be nothing short of insolent assumption on my part were I to say that in three weeks' time I had been able to take up the last of the many threads thai; go to the weaving of the web of circumstances compelling a certain policy to be adopted. As to the three-party system, that is a necessary outcome of the growth of new opinions among the people, and as those opinions grow the third party grows, and at last the two old parties coalesce. It is no new thing, but is what has taken place in the political development of all nations." What is your opinion of the Labour attitude to other parties? "The attitude of the Labour parties to other parties in the same States is also a matter for the rank and file to settle. It has been the policy of most reform movements to find the friends nearest them, and to support them. That may be the policy of the Labour parties of the Commonwealth and New Zealand, ! but the policy I have stood for throughout my whole public life has been -that of teaching the workers if the"- be true to themselves it is abso- ! lutely unnecessary for them to lean S on any other party. These other I parties depend fo rtheir very exist- j ence on the support of the working' class, and without working class sup- I port would cease to exist. ' ) The London press does not seem to ! indicate any serious growth of the i spirit of absolute political independ- ; ence among the workers of Britain ? j " I am afraid the London press is i

scarcely a safe guide as to .what the working classes will or will' not do. The British press allowed the Socialist party to be organised arid grow up under its very nose, and apparently knew nothing of the new pow«T until the general election made fuither ignorance impossible." Is the growth of Socialism concurrent with the growth of Independent Labour? .

" It is more than concurrent. Many unions were formerly satisfied with simply an independent Labour candidate, now the men most likely to be chosen are those who are well known as Socialists. Let me givo you an instance. The latest file of Home Labour papers to hand contains the report of the ballot of the Operative Painters to select a candidate for next election. .Eleven members of the Union were nominated, and the result of the voting shows that the selected candidate, W. Pickles, of Huddersfield, a well known Socialist, had a majority of 419 votes over the combined votes cf his ten opponents. The Labour party is virtually a Socialist party? "Of our thirty-three members, twenty-three are Socialists, and this is but the beginning. It is not our object to hold merely the balance _of power between the, two capitalist parties, but to make Labour,supreme in the councils of the State. The aim of our movement—it has only one aim—is to converge land and capital into public ownership and organise industry on a basis of production for use, and not for profit." Is'; it boo much to ask you to say a word about India? You know som? of your remarks there caused something of a sensation—here, at least ? " What Beuter said I said, you mean? I have already given a correct version of what I did say, riot a word of which I withdraw or modify in the slightest. I hope, however; to have an opportunity whita in Wellington of speaking for the New Zealand workers, when I shall take for my subject .'* India and the East, and What I saw There.' That is something to go on with."