THE FINANCIAL POLICY.

Marlborough Express, Volume V, Issue 242, 30 July 1870, Page 5

THE FINANCIAL POLICY.

ME. VOGEL’S EEPLY. BESOLDTION CAEEIED WITHOUT A DIVISION. On Wednesday, July 20th, in the House of Representatives, the most famous debate for many years came to a close, after upwards of fifty members had spoken. Among these was Mr Eyes, the member for Wairau, whose speech—which will be found elsewhere —was, as we weeks ago said it would be, in favor of the Government Captain Kenny, the member for Picton, did not vote against the Government, for no division was called for; but at all events, he has not yet made his mark for this session. It will be seen that the scheme is slightly modified in respect of the sum to be spent in railways, and in land purchases in the North Island, while the provision for giving a capitation on the basis of population is retained intact. The duty of replying fell upon Mr Yogel, and occupied three and a-half horns in the delivery. We take the best report of it at our command, from the Independent :— The Hon. Mr Yogel, who on rising was loudly cheered, said that he should have to occupy the time of the House for a lengthened period, because the country had a right to expect a full explanation of the various objections raised, and that explanation he was prepared to give. He should divide the remarks he had to make under three heads. First, the speeches of hon. members during the debates; second, to explain some of the points of the scheme; and, thirdly, to explain the intentions of the Government consequent on the debates. The hon. member for Grey and Bell had been the first to rush into the fray, on the ground that he had been for some five years favorable to a policy similar to that. Now what Were the facts, why, that when two years ago, when he brought down a Bill to extend immigration, that hon. gentleman thought that it was not possible to carry out those ideas which he said he had had in his mind for some five years. [The hon, gentleman quoted from Hansard to support what he had advanced.] The hon. member had likened the scheme to a great Christmas tree—all prizes and no blanks. Well, he could not have paid a higher compliment to the Government; because the scheme was one which would benefit all, and take the governing power out of the hands of the few for the benefit of the many. The hon. member had derided his poetry respecting the Christian martyr, but as he (Mr Richmond) was an artist of no mean order, he (Mr Vogel) had endeavored to depict to his mind what would be the hon. member’s conception of a Christian martyr, and he thought it would be something of this kind—a comfortably furnished room, in which was a desk, and at that desk seated his hon. colleague the Native Minister; at the half-open door would be seen the face of the artist (the hon. member for Grey and Bell) looking in with a wistful expression, exclaiming “ Oh that that room were mine.” (Laughter.) The supposition that the assurances of the Commissioners had in any way bound. the Colony was dissipated by information before them in many ways. When Lord Granville had stated that he would only guarantee £500,000, several city men had waited on the Commissioners and pressed them to accept that guarantee, stating that

any amount of money would be procurable in the open money market. He would read the House an extract from the letter of Dr Featherston. [The hon. member read several extracts which stated that the Colony could obtain any amount of money in the Home money market on its own credit, and only one condition was attached, viz.,—That there should not be a change of Ministry, a paragraph which was received with shouts of laughter. 3 It was feared that water carriage would compete detrimentally with the railways, but experience had proved that this was fallacious, and he felt sure that the two lines would increase the traffic on each of them. There had been a great deal said about ruin, disgrace, &c.; but they simply proposed to carry out,Jthe. railways as they paid, and it was not the intention of the Government to remove from the Assembly the power of exercising that supervision over the works, and the progress of the country, which it had always had. (Hear, hear) With respect to the immigration policy of the Government, it was not their intention to have a number of antagonistic agencies; but it was inrended to have a central agency, and sub-agents, familiar with New Zealand, from one end to the other, and it was proposed to take the immigrants from the places where they resided, so that their antecedents might be fully and fairly ascertainable. The hon. member for Christchurch stated that there was an excess of expenditure of £29,000, and that thus they were living beyond their means, and on borrowed money; if they looked upon defence expenditure as nominal expenditure, it was so; but if they looked upon war expenditure as abnormal, they were living within their means, and he hoped hon. members would consider this when they made such statements. The hon. member had also accused the Government of bringing forward the proposals an an election cry. Mr Thavees : I beg the hon. member’s pardon; when the hon. Premier stated that this scheme was under the consideration of the Government for some months before—that would, had I known it before I spoke, have placed the matter in a very different light; and although the words are in print, I hope they will have no effect upon this part of the question. (Hear, hear.) Mr Vogel desired to thank the hon. member for the very frank and candid manner in which he had spoken. With regard to the relations with the Imperial Government, upon which the hon. member for Christchurch remarked, he might say that the Government had considered his remarks respecting a Eeciprocity Bill, and had to some extent modified their proposals in that direction. The hon. member for Gladstone seemed to think that Government were to rush into the whole of the works at once; now that was quite opposed to the policy of the Government, which was to carry out these acts in a leisurely and cautious manner. Comparisons had been instituted between this Colony and that of Victoria ; but it had been forgotten that this Colony had had an exceptional obstacle, which Victoria never had, viz., the Native difficulty, and he would state that this difficulty had caused an expenditure from 1853 to 1870, of nearly six millions of money, and, deducting this, what was their debt ? Why a little more than a million, an amount which was covered by public works in the Province of Canterbury alone. (Hear, hear.) With respect to the hon. member’s opinion that the money had better be spent in erecting a lunatic asylum, it reminded him of an anecdote related by the Duke of Edinburgh, who, on visiting a place in New Zealand, was shown the lions of the place, and on being told that there was no lunatic asylum said, “ I am glad of that, because I am always shown those places, and over the door is always inscribed the word ‘ Welcome.’ ” (Laughter.) Well, it was perhaps something like this which had actuated the hon. member. The hon. member for Coleridge (Mr C. Wilson) had said that he would, if returned by his constituents, vote for a measure which would, he believed, ruin thousands of families. This was a lamentable and melancholy position. (Laughter.) The hon. member had referred to the Vogel bubble, which he (Mr Vogel) took as a personal affront. Mr Wilson : I did not intend any personal affront to the hon. member. Mr Vogel would then take it that the atmosphere of corruption in which the hbn. member had resided for so long had blunted his moral sympathies, and made him obtuse to the fact.that it was insulting to another hon. member. But he would also give his little glimpse into the history of the future as follows“ These railways were concluded at the instance of a beneficent Government, supported by a far-seeing parlia-ment,-out of money which might have been wasted on Goorkhas (great laughter) whose introduction was advocated by a wellmeaning old gentleman,” (Great laughter.)

[The hon. gentleman then proceeded to ctiticise In detail the speech of the hon. member for Avon.] He thought that the hon. member for Wairai’apa deserved great credit for his frank and outspoken avowal, and if any one had a claim to be the father of the scheme it was that hon, member. (Hear, hear.) He must say he was agreeably surprised at the measure of support given by Mr Ludlam to the schemes of the Government. The hon. member for Ashley (Mr Tancred) had made the quaintest speech he ever heard; it really deserved being placed in the Museum. [Mr Vogel then criticised the speeches of the hon. members for Timaru, Heathcote, Clutha, and other hon, members who took part in the debate, acknowledging the frank offers of assistance made by the hon. member for Timaru (Mr Stafford), and went in detail through the whole debate, commenting on the salient points of the speeches of hon. members, and combatting the arguments adduced against the scheme proposed ty the Government.] He might state that the speeches of the hon. member for Westland North, Mr Xynnersley, and other members had had the effect of inducing the Government to modify their proposals with respect to the supply of water on goldfields. (Hear, hear.) He now came to the second portion of his subject, viz., the nature of the proposal of the Government. It was not intended to at once rush into these works, but simply to provide the machinery for carrying out of public works and immigration. (Hear, hear.) The hon. member then read an extract from Fox and Co., the celebrated railway contractors, stating that all stations, rolling stock, &c., would be furnished at £3,500 per mile, the land being provided by the Government.] He would remind hon. members that the cost of the railways should not be looked upon as returning money directly, but as indirectly being of advantage to the people by opening up the country; and although the people might be taxed for the construction of these works, yet what they were taxed was returned to them by the saving of freight, &c. The reasons for and against going to the country would next be the subject of his remarks. If he thought for one moment that the people would reverse these measures, he for one would not think of going on with them in the last session of an expiring Parliament, but they were of opinion that the country would look upon these proposals with favor, and therefore they wished to go on with them at once. (Hear, hear.) There would be a year’s delay if it were remitted to a new Parliament, and they would have to come down with a new Budget; and, again, if these measures were desirable, it was imperative on them to pass them at once, while circumstances were favorable. He would now inform them what modifications the Government were prepared to allow in their bills; and seeing that it was not desirable that these measures should be mangled in committee, the Government would not allow of this being done. The Government were prepared to go in the direction of modification as follows :—They were prepared to erase the schedule from the bill altogether; and the Government would ascertain from the Provinces during the recess all information respecting the railways, and make the House the final arbiter; the Government were further prepared to reduce the amount to be borrowed for carrying out this railway scheme from six millions to four; they would take off £IOO,OOO from the purchase of native lands in the North Island, and put it on to the supply of water for the goldfields; also, keep the accounts distinct under the Act; to make it clear in the Act that there should be a central immigration agent; and that the Government would leave the question of the additional duties an open one, but the Government would vote for them, and he believed that next year a large number of members would be returned on this question. (Hear, hear; and no, no.) They would also introduce a Reciprocity Bill respecting differential duties; and although the money borrowed for defence purposes would be borrowed for five years, they would only take annual provision as usual for this service. He did trust that these bills would be carried this session, and that they might go back to their constituents with the satisfaction of having initiated a large and extensive policy, and one which would conduce to the prosperity of the country. (Loud cheers). Mr Rollestoit desired to ask the Colonial Treasurer whether the Government would . decline the Million Loan in case it were incompatible with the present scheme ? The Hon. Mr Vogel replied that when the terms ol? the guarantee were received ; it would be for the House to say whether they would have it or not. If there was . any condition attached to the loan which would not be compatible with the scheme, the Government would not take the guarantee. He would assure the hon. member that there was nothing in the proposals - ;

which was at all opposed to the scheme of the Government. Mr Eaefi' asked whether the Government intended to modify their proposals with respect to the capitation allowance, and the basing of their ‘ calculations on the adult male population ? The Hon. Mr Vogel replied that the Government had no intention of doing so. In reply to Mr Peacock, The Hon. Mr Vogel said that the Government had not included in their scheme any money for harbor improvements. In reply to Mr Jollie, The Hon. Mr Vogel replied that, the Government proposed that the total amount in the Bill should stand as it now was, but the amount of work to be done should be decided by the House. In reply to Mr Hall, The II on. Mr Vogel stated that the Government would not enter into any contract for the construction of railways without first consulting the Hou*e. The motion, on being put, was carried on the voices, amid loud and prolonged cheering. The resolution was then reported to the House, and ordered to be considered at the next sitting.