LIQUOR QUESTION.

Lyttelton Times, Volume CXVII, Issue 17935, 31 October 1918, Page 5

LIQUOR QUESTION.

DEPUTATION TO MINISTERS. MONSTER PETITION PRESENTED BY LICENSED TRADE. (From a Correspondent). WELLINGTON, October 30. Dominion representatives of the licensed and brewing trades waited on Mr Massey and Sir Joseph Ward to-day at Parliament House in tho form of a large deputation, to present petitions and submit arguments in support of what was claimed to he the true solm tion of the liquor problem. Mr R. Bollard, M.P., in introducing the deputation, said that it represented the whole licensed trade throughout the Dominion. It had a petition to present. Tho Ministers had received a deputation from the no-license party during the previous week, and Mr Massey had said then, very wisely, that ho could not give a decision until lie had heard all sides. Tho speakers would simply stato their case and their proposals. He expected that there would be other deputations, and that Mr Massey would be unable to say more that day than he had already said, hut it was right that the trade’s case should bo clearly before the Government.

A BIG PETITION. Mr A. E. Kemot, president of tho National Council of the licensed trade hi New Zealand said: —lt has fallen to my lot, as president of tho National Council of New Zealand, which is representative of all branches of the licensed trade in this country, to present to you the largest petition, that is the most numerously signed petition, whioh it has over been the lot of any New Zealand Parliament to receive. (Applause). You will remember, sirs, that at the close of the session of Parliament in 1917 you made a statement to the effect that a definite solution of the liquor question in this Dominion should be found. Ve contemplated that suggestion, and we have found what we consider to be tho definite and true solution of the question. This petition joes not ask for the dividing of the people while the war is on. That, in our judgment, would be unpatriotic. We tlo not seek to create sectional strife nnd political bitterness at this time, but our petition requests that an alteration of the voting paper on the liquor question should be made for the text goneral election. Our proposal, mpportedby this petition, is that there should he three issues on tho ballot paper, namely:— National Continuance. National Prohibition. National Ownership. The submission of these issues to the people will allow of all having an opportunity of expressing their view on the whole question. This petition contains no fewer than 308,826 signatures. (Applause). They represent an absolute majority of the electors of the Dominion, thus giving added emphasis to the election returns pf December, 1914, when 257,000 electors voted for national continuance. Aspersions have already been cast by our opponents in „ your presence upon the genuineness of the signatories. This may have been done in ignoranoe, although wp know it is the custom of a defeated party to abuse their opponents, that being the position our opponents have found themselves in. We challenge and demand a scrutiny of both petitions, for no matter what our opponents’ petition may be like wo are satisfied as to the genuineness of our own. SOLDIERS AND PEOPLE. Occasion has been taken by our opponents to malign our people and libel our soldiers on the score of efficiency. Our soldiers have been spoken of as being over-indulgent, and the people of this.country as being inefficient through their consumption of alcoholio liquors, although there are no more sober ana temperate people among civilised nations. It was with gratification that we noted how tho Governor-General’s Speech at the opening of the present Parliament inferentially repudiated the assertions of the prohibitionists that prohibition was necessary to improve the efficiency of our soldiers. The Go-vernor-General’s Speech stated:—“ln the operations on tho western front our New Zealand Division has been constantly in action, and lias given the Dominion renewed cause to be proud of our soldiers’ record of courage and discipline.” ,We are proud of our New Zealand soldiers, and are satisfied that the men who have fought for'-liberty nnd civilisation abroad ought not themselves to be deprived of their own liberty and their privileges as free citizens m their absence. (Applause). As to the efficiency of the people it is only necessary to point out that during these four years of war, and notwithstanding tho withdrawal of over one hundred thousand men from their ordinary avocations, the peqple have loaned to the Government thirty-fire millions sterling, have exported one hundred millions sterling in produce, increased their bank deposits by thirty-eight millions sterling, and have voluntarily contributed upwards of two million sterling to patrio'tio purposes. (Applause). Mr M. ~ ey i It ia nearer five millions.

Mr Keniot smilingly replied that his party always kept well within the mark when quoting figures, hut he would let it go at five millions. That speaks well. Mr Massey: For the Government ad~ ministration. Mr Ixernot: I grant you that, and vet the prohibitionists and their associates constantly reiterate the assertion that our soldiers and our people fire lacking in efficiency and sobriety, Surely such statements, in' the face of Now Zealand’s records, must be condemned. TRUE AND DEFINITE SOLUTION. There is, therefore, in our judgment and m the opinion of the hundreds of thousands of people who have signed this petition absolutely no necessity for dividing the people on the liquor question at this time, and our petition requests that the National Government shall only prepare for a true and definite solution in terms of the position at the nest general election. (Applause.) That, sirs, is the statement I have to make on behalf of this deputation, which is representative of every quarter of New Zealand and every part, of tho licensed trade, which hitherto lias not had any privileges accorded it, and on behalf of which we now meet you to present a petition of 306,000 odd people. This speaks its own language. (Applause.) A GENUINE PETITION. Mr C. Speight, of Dunedin, said: I represent the browing section of the licensed trade. The brewers of New Zealand are manufacturers of an article which has been in demand b.y the people from time immemorial, and tho commodity we manufacture is regarded by consumers as essential to their health, comfort and well-being. I also come in support of this petition with its 306,826 signatures, which comprises an absolute majority of the electors of the Dominion. I endorso what my friend, Mr ivernot, has said with regard to the genuineness of this petition, and I repel with indignation tho sneering remarks which nave been made by the promoters of the prohibition petition with regard to the honesty and (straightforwardness of the petition. ] support this demand for an alteration on tho ballot paper at next general election as a.skcd for by hundreds and thousands of men and women of this country, who are as loyal and patriotic as any other minor section of the New Zealand public, hut then such allegations arc simply on all four* with

the wild and. ill-considered statements of prohibitionists.

THE BREWING TRADE

Speaking for the brewing industry I would point out to you that the brewers do' not own the whole of the businesses connected with the licensed trade and do not take the whole of tho revenue derived from the trade. It is a popular conception that tho brewers own all the hotels and accommodationhouses in Now Zealand. This popular conception has been erroneously created by the ignorance of our opponents. Lot mo give you plain facts in this connection. Over 80 per cent of the licensed hotel property in this Dominion is owned by private individuals who are not connected with the trade as a trade in any wavy whatever, save as freeholders or what we _ call private owners of hotel properties. I would also like to point out, as a brewer, that a majority of the browing companies in New Zealand aro not individual institutions. Many are limited liability companies, with hundreds of shareholders whose living is to some extent, if not altogether, derived from the dividends they receive, just as other shareholders of other public companies derive their livelihood from similar dividends. I will not go into tho matter of the many allied trades and occupations, save to mention the barley and hop growers, who aro among our primaiy producers.

MR LLOYD GEORGE’S TESTIMONY. Reference has already been mado by Mr Kernot to the courage, morale and character of our New Zealand soldiers, and I would like to express my satisfaction with that quotation lie mado from the Governor’s Speech to Parliament, in which the nobility of their deeds and conduct was extolled. With regard to ourselves I could offer much testimony to the patriotism and loyalty which our frntermtv have shown during those four years of the nation’s greatest trials, hut one quotation from tho speech made by tho Prime Minister of England, Mr Lloyd George, will suffice. On tho twenty-third of February, 1917, Mr Lloyd George, when he was proposing to impose further taxation upon the trade in England, made this statement :

“The Government are bound to recognise the patriotic soirit in which those who aro engaged in this business have faced all the restrictions which have hampered them and reduced their profits during tho war. It would not ho fair for mo not to recognise that at once they have accepted all these interferences in the most laudable spirit of determination to do all that is in their power to contribute to the safety of the nation. There is no man in tho House who has fought tho brewers, publicans and distillers harder than I have, but I am bound to say that thev have met the appeal which I . made to them in a patriotic spirit, in an attitude of mind which could leave nothing to be desired from tho point of view of anybody who is trying to help this country along. _ If there aro any failures I do not think the blame rests upon them.. I am bound to say so, and I think it is due to them.” (Applause.) I need add no tiling more but to express the hope that the petition now presented to you will receive the sympathetic consideration which its more than three hundred signatories have a right to expect from. yourselves, the members of the National Cabinet and Parliament itself. (Applause).

THE LICENSED VICTUALLERS. Mr R. Dwyer said: I desire also not only to endorse what has been said by previous speakers, but to stato that I come, representing 1200 licensed victuallers, to support the petition. We are engaged in a perfectly legitimate business, and are carrying it on in a perfectly legitimate way; indeed, as you are aware from your officers’ reports, the general conduct of the trade throughout New Zealand is particularly exemplary. We have had to submit to restrictions, and have submitted for reasons so well expressed by Mr Lloyd George, a quotation from whoso speech you have just heard from Mr Speight, but no other 'trading body in this country has submitted, neitheff have they been asked to submit, to such restrictions as we have been required to submit to during the past four years. These restrictions have entailed serious loss upon ourselves, but they have been cheerfully borno, although we have considered that they had been imposed on account of tho fallacious plea of their helping to win the war. Wo would, of course, desire to be allowed to conduct our businesses under the law and in keeping with tho law always, and not be subjected to continuous irritation by public agitators who have been using the war to advance their own political ends. Those who spoke to you in support of our opponents’ petitions told you in these words, “If we do not get what we want this year from the National Government we will come back next year.” thus threatening the Government with tho continuity of tho minority and fanatical demands. Wo do not say we will come again, we do not threaten you, but this wo do say, that this petition of ours is signed by a vast major* ity of the electors of this country, and the voice of people so expressed must be heard and given effect to, .not only by the National Cabinet but by Parliament itself, and we further say that at next election, not only these 30Q,826 signatures, but many thousand more votes added to them, will be oast in the direction indicated by this petition. This petition further asks that Parliament will at next general election give an opportunity for the voiao of the people to be expressed on the three issues named, as prayed for by this democratic petition.

"A DEMOCRATIC PETITION. We have been charged with not representing the democratic views of the peoplo of New Zealand, Mr Dwyer added, but, speaking in the name ' of those who lmvo signed this petition, wo clearly and distinctly state that this petition represents the voice of democracy far more adequately, far more fully and far more completely than any other petition that lias ever been presented to’you. We have no need, therefore, to take up the attitude of people representing a minority of tho electors. This petition represents a majority of tho people of this country. I would also like to add that wo are at one with the Primo Minister in his desire for a. full and definite solution of the question. Notwithstanding our desire to carry on our own business in our own way under the law, we are ready to accept State ownership, because such an institution would still proservo the rights and liberties of the three hundred and six thousand eight hundred and twenty-six petitioners in regard to their use of alcoholic liquors, and as a majority of tho electors desire to have an opportunity of expressing themselves on this question, as they have so desired by this petition, then it becomes tho duty of Parliament, and I submit it is obligatory on Parliament, to accede to their request. COMMERCIAL CANNIBALISM.

Thero is another point I would like to make. It might well be asked, seeing that New Zealand soldiers and New Zealand peoplo have proved themselves sober and efficient, for it is by tho valorous deeds of our soldiers and the efficiency of our people in productiveness that they .must be judged, has this agitation been engendered at the present juncture? Tho prohibitionists have attracted some business men who were tempted bv the statement of the prohibitionists that money spent in tho legitimate business which wo carry on, and by which ue meet tho requirements of the public of New Zealand, would be diverted to other channels, and these chanels into such businesses as are largely controlled and possessed by the very business men referred to. 'lhus it is plain that one class of business men are seeking to destroy the business of another class of business men, m that the destroyers may profit by the ]os *> e ® of their neighbour*. This has been ado-

quately described as “ commercial cannibalism. ’ When tho war was at its worst for tho Allies a large majority of the people of this country said they desired national continuance, and affirmed by their vote's that there should bo no variation in the licensing legislation as it existed m the blackest stage of the war. Tho prohibition pcoplo have not respected tho will of the majority, and from their to yourselves it te not likely they will jcspcct tho verdict, of any majority of tho people, not even the magnificent majority represented by this petition which we present to you to-day. It is. therefore, desirable in the interests of all classes, that a fair, adequate, just and reasonable solution of tho question should bo made, and. as I have already stated, those whom I represent aro at one with the Prime Minister and Sir Joseph Ward in their desire to find such a solution. THE QUESTION OF FINANCE.

T would like to observe that our national debt is now approximating two hundred millions sterling. It may tax tho ingenuity of the Finance Minister to discover ways and means of providing an adequate income to meet not only the interest on the national debt, but old ago pensions and soldiers’ pensions (which may probably aggregate a million a year for many years to come), and it is not suggested how these increasing burdens are to be mado up by the persons who would destroy a’largo and certain revenue. T believe the Finance' Minister will hesitate to sacrifice tho million nnd a half of voluntary taxation which accrues to him through the businesses wo represent, and inrposo that, taxation upon tho necessaries of life which would still further increase the burdens of tho people and render more grievous the evergrowing cost of living. In conclusion, I would say this, Mr Dwyer added. This petition, representing the vast majority of tho electors of this country, must not only receive the serious consideration of the National Cabinet but must influence tho deliberations and decision of Parliament itself. Seeing that those 300,826 signatures aro of men and women comprising a, majority of the electors it is surely not too much to ask that what they aro praying for shall ho conceded to them without undue delay. Wo do not anticipate, however, that an opportunity will he afforded to them, and wo do not ask that it shall be, until the next general election. I have to thank the Prime Minister, and Sir Joseph Ward for the very patient and interested hearing they have given to my remarks and for having received us in deputation. (Applause). BARE MAJORITY. Mr Massey: I have not noticed in tho speeches any suggestion with regard to tho majority which you propose should decide tho issues referred to in tho petition. Have you made up your minds on that point? Is it to bo bare majority, or what do you propose ? Mr lvernot: Bare majority on our petition.

Mr Massey.: I want that point to bo quite clear. Aro you asking for preferential voting? Mr Kernot: No. Wc aro not. Mr Dwyer: We say that there ate two principles involved. These principles arc liquor or no liquor. State ownership means continuance of the sale of liquor, and there are, therefore, only two principles involved, although there are three issues. Therefore we say that an absoluto bare majority should decide.

. M r Massey: You require a bare major Oil any on 0 of these questions ? Mr Dwyer: A bare majority must carry any one issue. Mr Massey: A bare majority of those voting ? Mr Dwyer: Yes. Sir Joseph Ward : Does national prohibition mean with compensation or without ?

A delegate: It means four and a half years notice as tho present law stands.