PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume CXVI, Issue 14167, 15 September 1906, Page 8

PARLIAMENTARY.

, • — 7 * j * LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ‘ ' Friday, September 14; : J AFTERNOON SITTING. ;Tho Council met at 2.30 p.m. NATIVE LANDS. In moving for a supplementary return of native lands, waste and unoccupied, the Hon J. D. Ormond traversed the land policy of the Government ;,The debate was. adjourned until Tuesday on tho motion of the Hon T, K. Macdonald. BILLS. The Training Ships Bill was read a third time and passed. _ , The Registration of Births Extension Bill and Opium Prohibition Act’Amendment Bill were reported from committee unamended, and passed. "The Juvenile Offenders Bill and Sale of Explosives Bill were reported I Tom committee with verbal amendments. The Council rose'at 4.40 p.m. ■; HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. . J ’ Friday. September 14. "J ' AFTERNOON SITTING. The House met at 2.30 p.m. divorce. The Divorce Act Amendment Bill No. 2 (Mr Lanreneon) was introduced and read a first time. CHAIRMEN OF COMMITTEES. The Premier moved that accordance with standing, order No. 200 a panel of two members should be appointed to act as temporary chairmen of.committees when requested by the chairman of committees, this panel to consist of Mr Flatman and Mr Wood. He said that; compliance with the standing order wouldt obviate difficulties which had proved most inconvenient in the past. Ho referred to the Idng experience of Mr Flatman in polltics', dating ba-ck ( to tho days of tho Sbuth Oant-orbury Board of \\orK**, and the extensive municipal experience of Mr Wood'at .Palmerston North as evidence of the fitness of these members for the position. The salaries for these positions Would be, he concluded, provided, for shy a Bill to be brought down presently, adding that it was -.ot intended to increase any salary hitherto paid.. ' i Air Massey said- that he thought it wrong to-enforce:'a standing order that had fallen into desuetude. 'He considered the.proposition of the Premier unusual and unnecessary, and objected to the salary payment as increasing the rilimber-of' paid Parliamentary officers on the Government side and under the control .of the ..Government. .He. mentioned. seven Ministers, the chairman 6f odxnmittees and the whips.^ : The Premier pointed out, in reply, that the standing order was mandatory and that oohtinuance was no excuse for disobedience. Ho had to learn that the chairman; of committees was under the control of the Government, and he denied that'.the whips were paid with public 'money. He explained that, the Amount .to bo paid to- the deputies would bej,the same as before. "The House* divided. Ayes.,44, noes 23.

Motion, carried. f t The following.is tie division list: — r Ayes 44-r-Meaers . Barber,- Barclay, Bennet, # Buddo, Carroll; f. Colvin, Dillon, .Davey, Duncan, Ell, Fowlds, Graham, Gray, Greenslade, Hall, HallHeke, Hogan, Hogg, Hornsby, Houston, laard, Kaihau, Kidd, Ladrenson, Lawry, M’Kenzie, M’Lachlan, ■ M’Nab, Millar, Mills, Ngata, Parata, Poland, Ross, Beddon, Sidey, Smith, Stallworthy, Wilford, "Witty,, Sir Joseph "Ward. Noes , 23—1 Jesens Aitken, Alison, J. Allen, Bollard, 'Fisher, A. L. D. Fraser, W. Fraser, Hardy, Henries, Jennings, Kirkbride, Lethbridge, T. Mackenaie, Maior, .Mapder, Massey, Poole, Reid j -Remington, Rhodes, Rutherford, Tanner, and Thomson. I":,- ' THE ESTIMATES. J The House went into Committee of Vl.—Working Railways, Department, item. ; working > railways £1*760,000. a Mr Allen complained that sheep were sometimes lost m transit, and wanted to know the, cause. . Messrs Wilford, Bollard, Arnold and urged the need for better clasaificatlon, the latter alluding to the “ widespread discontent ” in the Department. .? ■ Mr Wilford said that sufficient discrimination was not shown on .the paysheets between responsibility and the freedom .from it. ■ . • . - The Minister said h© was surprised to hear of - the “ widespread discontent,” eapacially as he had never found railway. men backward in voicing their grievances He explained that a classification, scheme for the casuals promoted, to the permanent department last .year was getting near completion, and he promised to consult his officers in matters of wages and grading. He deprecated violent charges and urged members to bring complaints to him rather than bottle them up for the House. Mr Kirkbride raised a local traffic question.. , Mr Laurenson advocated the cause of the men who had been twenty years on the casual list. ‘-Mr Hanan quoted from pay-lists to ■how the need for alteration. Mr Massey voiced a local; traffic grievance from Huntly, where the traffic Is glowing greatly. He' complimented the Minister on the further- classification he had announced. He urged the Minister'to. favourably consider the case of -the numerous stationmasters of the service drawing small pay, £IBO to £2OO » year, working long hours, from six |n the morning to eight at night, carrying heavy responsibility. Mr .Buddo took the same line as to the stationmasters and. complained of the shortage of trucks. -’.Messrs-Bollard and Poland objected til'the low rate of. pay in the case of the railway clerks. ; ,The Minister explained, in reply, that tKe latter subject was large and complicated .considerations affecting the' ■railway* employees and the general tax"payer, and .promised that he. woulddeal with it in the most liberal way that ■Jnight be found open to him. , "ir Mr ’Ji Allen referred to the superannuation" question, and demanded theactuarial ■jreport. on the scheme of the "London and North Western Railway, .which nobody seemed to be able to get, »nd which j he was assured, had been suppressed by the directors because unfavourable. ....- The Minister said that he did not think it right to go into that matter at the present time. . • Mr: Hornsby urged that junior officers were given too much latitude, and wanted ..an Improvement in. .that -direction in an otherwise exceedingly wellmanaged service. He brought .a-recent circular ; about the pay ment -of i allow-ances-to, the notice of the Minister. • -■ Mr Gray referred to the “discrepancies” of the wage system. The House adjourned for dinner at 5.30 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at >7v3o p.m. Mr Massey suggested the iise of motor carriges iu connection with.,the railways. , ' v- . - Mr Wilford asked for some change in ,the. constitution of the Appeal Board.

Mr Ell wanted the charges on the conveyance of race horses to be raised, and .tne .wages of the railway men iragroved.

Mr Fisher said he'thought the highlypaid officials ought to produce bettor railway stations at Wellington and other places; Air Thomson found fault with the speed of fifteen miles an hour on long lines as too slow. The Minister explained that the constitution” of the Appeal Board had been adopted after very careful consideration, and that the speed of trains was the outcome of much careful thought on tho part of experts of the .service, dealing with complicated conditions. Motor-cars had been ordered for the Auckland railways. The building of better stations, and a rise in the freight on race homes would be kept steadily in view. Air Hogg complained of the want of foo’P-warmers on the northern lines, though the southern were well supplied. The Alinister said that foot-warmers had been ordered. Air Gray complained of tho smoko nuisance in tunnels. The Alinister said that instructions had been given to make an estimate of tiie cost of electric motive power for tho,.Lyttelton tunnel. Messrs Flatman, Dillon, Remington, and the Hen T. Y. Duncan referred to local'train grievances. Mr'Hogan detailed from personal experience the anomalies of tho classification system. He was glad to hear the Alinister say that he thought 5s a day too little for a man of twenty, six feet high.

Mr Homes compared the accidents on tho British and New Zealand systems, fatalities 1 in 1015 New Zealand, 1 in 1447 Britain; injuries 1 in 14 to 20 New Zealand and 1 in 150 Britain.

The Alinister explained that the discrepancy was due to the difference of .compilation for Britain. The reported accidents were confined to the roPingstock, and no injury was reported that did not incapacitate the injured for five days and more, whereas in New Zealand the workshops were included, and every injury was reported. He explained as to the rate of 5s a day complained of that the classification was known well enough. Alesars Hall and E. 6. Allen voiced local train grievances. Air Thomson advocated an automatic system of-points (the Minister interjecting that one is under consideration) and cheaper excursion tickets, .j Air Baume complained that the mechanics in the service are paid a less minimum than these outside. The item £1,750,000 passed unaltered. ' Glass Vll.—ltem, Public Buildings, £37,222. •The Alinister explained that the sum ’was nearly £lo,ooo r more than last year beca -se of the greater requirements for renewals and maintenance. After a discussion on - various local buildings, Air Baum© moved that the item" £2OOO for courthouse should be reduced by £l.

After some discussion of the need for a new courthouse at Auckland, the amendment was lost,, and the item passed unamended. ( Government domains, £I4OO, passed unaltered. Maintenance of Roads £25,000. The Minister explained that this was for the maintenance of main roads hitherto maintained out of the Public Works Fund, which had paid for the purpose last year £24,700. Mr Massey congratulated the Minister on doing the right thing by making this transfer. Mr J. Allen asked why the Minister did not go a step further and transfer the ordinary roads. The Minister replied that the control of these roads when finished was with the local bodies, which had to • keep them in order. The item, after further discussion on complaint of reduced expenditure, passed unaltered. Class VIII., Printing and Stationery Department, £41,888, passed unaltered. Class) IX., Stamps and Deed Department—(l) Stamp Department, £10,053; (2) Land and Deeds Registry, £23,511; total £33,564. Vote 1 passed unaltered. On vote 2 Mr Baume moved a reduction of the first item, salaries Auckland £650, by £1 to affirm the principle that the whole vote, should be under the control of the Justice Department-. The amendment was lost. After some discussion on the overwork complained of by Mr Ngata as placed oii a Judge of the Native Laud Court in the Poverty Bay district and the need for greater .speed in the registration and return of documents, the vote passed unaltered. Class X., Native Department, vote (1), Native Department, £2145; vote 12), Native Land Court, £13,412; vote (3) "Maori Councils, ’£1090; vote (4), miscellaneous, £2220; total £35,338. After, a protest from Mr Ngata against the poor salaries No. 1 was passed unaltered. No. 2 was tbs occasion of complaints by Mr Homes of delay in setting up the Boards, and by Mr Fraser against the appointment of judges to the Land Court without knowledge of the Maori language and customs. Mr J. Allen said that he could not ee© how with judges at £4OO a year it was possible to secure the talent necessary for - speed and accuracy in the settlement of the great native problem. Reform bad been promised for twenty years, and still it was “ taihoa.”

Mr Jennings and Mr Remington denounced the low salaries paid to men discharging large responsibilities. Mr Remington wanted to know why last year’s promises .to buy large blocks of Native land had not been kept. The Minister replied that they had been kept, but the blocks could not be cut up and roaded for settlement in a single year. Mr Field discussed Native townships, which he described as merely areas held for speculative purposes. Mr Ngata appealed to the Premier as a business man, to adopt the principle of paying good men to get good results in a matter so important as the basis of tli© land titles of the'f uture. He warned the Government that the Maoris were prepared to insist on. efficient machinery before offering their lands for settlement. A motion by Mr "Wilford to report progress was lost by 33 to 20. On a question raised as to whether members could refer to items in last year’s estimates, the chairman ruled that reference could only be made tothe supplies of the current year. Mr Massey moved to report progress in order to take the Speaker’s opinion, and the motion was carried by 28 to 24. ■ The following is the division list:— Ayes 28—Messrs Aitken, J. Allen, Arnold, Barber, Baume, Bollard, Dillon, Fieher, A. L. D. Fraser, W. Fraser, ■Graham, Gray, Hall, Heke, Herries, Jennings, Kirkbride, M’Lacblau, Massey, Ngata, Parata, Poole, Remington, Rhodes, Stallworthy, Symes, Tanner and Wilford. Noes 24—Messrs E. G. Allen, Bennet, Colvin, Davey, Duncan, Field, Flat-man, Fowlds, Greenslade, Hall-Jones, Hogan, Hornsby, Kidd, Laurenson, Lawry, M’Gowan, M 7 Nab,

Millar, Poland, Ross, . Seddon, Sidey, Wood and Sir Joseph Ward. The Speaker decided that the chairman’s ruling was correct. The House rose at 12.11 a.m.