PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XCVI, Issue 11082, 7 October 1896, Page 6

PARLIAMENTARY.

[Per Press Association.] LEGISLATIVE , COUNCIL. Tuesday, Oct. 0. AFTERNOON SITTING. The Legislative Council met at 2.30 p.m. gold-saving process. The Hon R. H. J. Reeves asked the Government if its attention had been called to the new gold-saving process known as the ore atomic-reduction process, with which it is contended most refractory ores could he successfully treated at a mere nominal cost, and for which a wealthy company had secured patent rights in West Australia, and would the Government make inquiries as to this process, and if satisfied of its efficiency, would it take immediate steps to procure the patent rights for New Zealand. . The Minister of Education said that the Department had no such conclusive information on the subject, but the Department would make every endeavour to find out the value of the process. uorowhenua. In order to give the Commissioners a right of reply to the statements made by Sir Walter Duller before the Public Petitions Committee in reference to the Horowhenua Block, the Council recently resolved to forward the report of Sir Walter Bullex-’s speech to the Commissioners, and print their reply in some Parliamentary paper. The Speaker read the reply of Mr J. C. Martin, Public Trustee, one of the Commissioners. Mr Martin wrote, briefly recapitulating the circumstances leading to the setting up of the Commission, and of the actions and finding of that body, and concluded by stating that, after reading the speech, he saw no reason to alter the conclusions which the Commissioners had forwarded to the Governor.

The Hon J. Macgbegob moved that Meiha Keepa te Rangihiwinui (Major Kemp) should'be allowed to appear at the Bar of the Council, and that he should be heard at 3 p.m. that day. Mr Macgregor wished to .amend his motion by ; striking out the hour at which Major Kemp was to’ appear, and by allowing Kemp to he heard , by his counsel. There was a dissentient voice, however, so Mr Macgregor put his' motion unamended, not finishing his speech till after 3 p.m. • • ] The Minister op Education ’failed to* see what effect Major Kemp appearing: before the Council could have. It would in no way help to elucidate the merits of the case. ■

The Hon C. C. Bowen considered that there was no more serious danger to the people than legislative interference. with private titles. Although he thought?it was a very serious precedent to make, yet when the initiative had been taken 'by such a Bill as the Horowhenua Block _ Bill, ho would vote for giving Major Kcrnp .the same opportunity to be heard as he would have before the Sunreme Court.

After further discussion, the motion was put and carried by IS to 13, and it .was decided to hear Major Kemp at once. Major Kemp then appeared at the Bar with a roll of manuscript in his hands,-and Mr Hartfield, interpreter of the Council, took his place at Major Kfemp’s side. Major Kemp thanked the Council for its permission to him to appear at the Bar. He had written his statement of the matter, which he trusted he would be allowed to read. He fully realised that the privilege of being ’ heard should not be allowed except under special circumstances, and he contended that the present circumstances were of an exceptional and a serious nature. > In his address he would refer to himself in the third person. ’■ ’■ The interpreter then proceeded to read the address, which first referred to the Horowhcnua Block Bill. The method of confiscation proposed allowed the Government to acquire his land summarily, and without trial, and also without compensation, at a price not fixed by arbitrators' or any court. This Bill was a convenient precedent to any unscrupulous Government of the future to confiscate the lands of Ihe Natives. He had been in attendance in Wellington nearly the whole session, but the Government had declined to allow him a hearing before the Native Affairs Committee. He was not askingfor any exceptional favour. His land was to ,be confiscated summarily, while the title of others was merely suspended. Even if he became a trustee in 1886, his tribesmen had since admitted his right as absolute owner of Block 14. In support of his statement, he read from the printed report of the evidence given by Natives before the Royal Commission. He did not ask the Council to -reverse the decision of the Commissioners, but to leave that to the Supreme Court. Every Native questioned admitted his (Kemp’s) ownership of Block 14, and extracts from the printed evidence, he contended, proved this. Judge Wilson, who made the .order, said that he distinctly recollected that Block 14 was to be allotted to Kemp. On this point the Commissioners wore guilty of four misstatemeuts, and it was very : hard to refrain from imputing something worse than mistakes on their part. In respect to Block 11 he (Kemp) had more tlqiii acted up to his position as trustee. He asked whether a Maori chief should be treated as a European trustee ? He was rather an administrator at his discretion. As the >Court of Appeal had said of him in his case against Htmia, a proposal to treat Kemp as a trustee was quite contrary to Maori ideas, and the tribe had given him an absolute legal release for renis received by him up to 1893. This deed the Commissioners had declared invalid, but of sixty Natives who signed the deed fifty-nine did not come forward to repudiate it, though invited by the Commissioners. , Major Kemp, in his old age and sickness, did not need to recall his services to the white man in the field of war in order to ask for 'Special favours, but only that he should not be ; singled out '.for special injustice. The address occupied exactly an hour in reading. ' Major Kemp then addressed the Council himself. He was the Major Kemp, he said, for whom a gallows had been built on which he was to be hanged. He then traversed the same ground which had been gone over in the address and repeated that he desired that these matters should be dealt with by the highest Court of the land. At 5 p.m. the Council adjourned till the evening and Major Kemp withdrew.

EVENING SITTING. The Legislative Council resumed at 7.30 p.m. LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES. The Government Loans to Local Bodies Act Amendment Bill was read a third time and passed. INSPECTION OF MACHINERY. On the motion of the Minister of Education the Council agreed to the amendments made by the 1 touse of Representatives in the Inspection of. Machinery Act Amendment Bill. HOROWHENUA. In moving the second reading of the Horowhenua Block Bill, the Minister of Education referred to the unsatisfactory nature of legislation on the Native ; land question and the bad system of Native land titles. This Bill would clear up the' title of one block of Native land and enable the owners to make a fresh start. Naturally enough some' people were not pleased. If their title to the land under discussion was not good they would have less reason to be pleased by the proposed legislation. If the titles under investigation were good they would remain good, and if bad the matter would be put right. The Minister then gave a short sketch of the history of the block. He added that he intended to move a series of amendments to the Bill when it got ipto Committee, which might remove some of the objections to the Bill. After some discussion the Bill was read a second time and referred to the Native Affairs Committee. FACTORIES. In committee upon tbo Factories Act Amendment Bill the amendments proposed by the Labour Bills Committee were agreed to, though not without some opposition. The Hon J, Macgregob moved a new clause, making it unlawful for girls under

fifteen years of age to sell newspapers in the streets. The Hon H. Feldwick said that the practice 'of employing young girls to sell newspapers. was a most vicious one, and tended to the depravity of street runners. Several Councillors expressed the opinion that the clause would be out of place in this Bill, and on a division the danse was rejected by 16 to 6. The Bill was then reported with amendments. WAGES PROTECTION. In Committee upon the Wages Protection Bill'’ the Hon C. C. Bowen moved to strike out the clause providing that no money should be received or deducted from the wages of workmen for accident insurance policies. This clause gave rise, to considerable discussion, in which the representatives of labour in the Council spoke at length. The clause was struck out by 11 to 5. The clause providing that moneys so received or deducted might he recovered was struck out by 12 to 6. A motion by the Hon J. Rigg to report progress, .and ask leave to sit again, was carried by 10 to 8. st alb Ans loan. .The Council then went into committee upon the St Albans Borough Council Special Loan Enabling Bill and Mataura Reserve Vesting Bill, and reported both measures with slight amendments. At midnight the Council adjourned till next day. HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Monday, Oct. 5. EVENING SITTING. COMMITTEE op supply. After the Telegraph Office closed, Mr M’Lachlan’s amendment on the motion to go into Committee of Supply for consideration of the Public Works Estimates was lost by 30 to 9. ■ The Hon W. Hall-Jones, in the course of his reply, thankbd honoui’ahle members for the favourable reception accorded to his first Public Works Statement. He said that the debate had been of a most temperate character, and there had been practically no criticism of .the Goyernment policy. He asserted that-there-had been .no Loan Bill before . thh . House! since 1888 to! give aid to , public works, .and the departure from the old style of things had paused all the discussion .that had. taken ’place. Had the Opposition . been on the Treasury benches they would have taken the Same course as the Government, had done, •for he did not believe for One moment that they would have allowed public works to cease. The money voted in these estimates would not be spent by the time the House •assembled for next session, and the ; statements that the money was already pledged were incorrect. It had been said that the .Government was going the pace too strong and spending money in a greater ratio than other Australasian Colonies, but he quoted figures to show that the expenditure on public works and rail ways, in New Zealand was very low indeed as compared with other colonies. The motion to go into Committee of Supply was agreed to on the voices, but progress was immediately reported, the Premier stating that lie would pat the Estimates through at the next sitting. The House rose at 2.35 a.m

, Tuesday, Oct. 6. AFTERNOON SITTING. The House met at 2.30 p.m. Mr G. W. Russell, brought up the report of the Copyright Telegrams Committee. He moved that it should lie on the table. Mr Collins moved that the report should be referred back to the Committee for further! consideration. He said that the House would remember that he had moved and carried an amendment limiting the inquiry to the operation of copyright telegrams only, but he understood that the inquiries of the Committee had gone much further than that. He maintained that they-had no-right to attempt to regulate the affairs of the Press Association any more than those of other private companies, but he should like the report to be read., Mr G. W. Russell suggested that consideration. of the report should be postponed till next day, when the report would he in the hands of members. The Hon R. J. Seddon suggested that the report should be adopted, and he should give another day for consideration of the report. After further discussion the report was read. ■ The Committee recommended that legislation should be introduced providing that the protection afforded by clauses 38 and 43 of the. Electric Lines Act of 1884 should only be extended to any Association which is prepared: (1) To grant to every subscriber to its service a voice in the control and management; (2) to grant to every newspaper its supply of cable news on payment of the same annual fee as is paid by other papers of the same class in similar localities. By this means all papers subscribing would have a voice in the management of the Association, and subscribing journals would be protected from the piracy of news for which they had paid.

Mr Collins said that the House would see by the report that the Committee had gone much further than the order of reference allowed, and it was evident that it had. gone intdtue internal working of the Press Association instead of simply confining its inquiries to the operation of the Electric Lines Act as affecting copyright telegrams. .He understood that the report now presented to the House was not the one originally agreed on by the Committee, and he should like to know who was responsible for the alteration made in the report. The Hon E. J. Seddon moved the adjournment qf .the debate till next day. lie said that it was not just to the Committee to order the report hack for reconsideration as the House had no opportunity of per using the report. The amendment was carried and the debate adjourned till next day. BANKING. Eeplying to Dr Newman as to whether they ..were to have a Banking Bill this session, . The Hon E. J. Seddon said that it all depended upon circumstances. ASIATIC RESTRICTION. The Speaker informed the House that the Asiatic Eestriction Bill had been reserved by the Governor for her Majesty’s assent. PUBLIC WORKS ESTIMATES. The House went into Committee of Supply for consideration of the Public Works Estimates. Minister of Immigration, ,£3so—passage for separated families and contingencies. Mr Earnshaw moved that this vote should be struck out. The Hon J. M’Kenxie said that the money did not belong to the colony at all. It was deposited by people who wished to bring out their friends to the colony. Vote carried by 44 to 16.

Public Works—Departmental, J 14,250. Mr R. Thompson brought up the case of Mr Campbell, an inspector of .the department, who had been retrenched after many years’ service, and his place filled by a person who had only been about three months in the colony. Last year the Premier had offered to take him on again, but Mr Campbell asked, what was,.,the. use. of his going on to be chivied about, from place to place as he had been before he was retrenched.

The Hon W. Hall-Jones emphatically contradicted the statement that Mr Campbell bad been persecuted by the department, and said that he was retrenched because his services were not required; • A lengthy discussion arose on the matter of Mr Campbell's position, several members asserting that the Government had done a wrong thing in discharging a man who bad been in the service for many years and putting in his place a man who had been in the colony only a few months. A lengthy discussion ensued. The lion W. Hall-Jones promised to inquire into the Campbell case, and Mr Thompson expressed himself satisfied with that assurance. The Hon E. J. Seddon 1 eventually, appealed to the Committee to allow the

Estimates to proceed, and said that he should not take any further business that day beyond the Public Works Estimates. Vote passed without alteration. Railways =£250,000 Blenheim-Awatere .£2500. , , . Hr G. W. Russell moved that this item should be struck out, and said that it was simply throwing money away to vote this sum, as the line was a loss to the colony. Mr Eabnskaw defended the vote, and said that it was a continuation of the Main trunk line between Christchurch and Picton. He was surprised at Mr Russell opposing this. The Hon J. M’Keneie also defended the vote, and said that the Lands Department was very anxious to get the Awatere niver bridged in order to promote settlement. It was a dangerous river, and was the only one between Christchurch and Blenheim that was not bridged. Messrs Mills and Buick strongly supported the vote. The debate was interrupted by the 5.30 p.m. adjournment. ! ’• .:

; I, EVENING SITTING. 1 The ' House resumed at, 7.30 p,m., in committee on' the ’ Public Works .'Estimates. ’ Mr G. W. Russell' said tl%t after Mr McKenzie’s explanation, he, should withdraw his amendment: Vote passed. Midland Railway, ,£25,000. Sir,R. Stout asked for some explanation of this vote. He said that this railway had not yet been sanctioned as an ordinary railway by Parliament, not that he objected to something being done for this line, but he wanted ,to know " Where they were ? ” He moved a reduction of the vote by =£lo,ooo. The Hon W. Hall-Jones said that Sir B. Stout must know the whole position of the line. He held that it was a moral duty for the Government to go on with the line till some arrangement was come to between the Company and the debentureholders. The Government having taken over the line, could not let it lie idle. Sir R. Stout asked how long it was to go on, or would it bo for ever. The Hon ’ W.'. Hall-Jones said that it would end with.the end of the contract.

' After a long debate, the Hon J._ Seddon said that Sir B; Stout was acting ungenerously, and he might say selfishly, in moving to reduce this vote, and he had ■taken care not to move it till all the Wellington votes had passed. He pointed out that .£182,000 was on the Estimates for •the Wellington district, and only =£23,000 for “ poor Canterbury.” The Government was advised, he said that it could go on with this work, and that was the reason whv £25,000 appeared on the Estimates for" the Midland line. It followed as • a natural sequence that they must go on with the work, especially as the colony had already spent .£252,000 on the line in land grants. . ' Mr Eraser said that the Premier was an adept at trailing a red herring across the scent, and he had given no information at all further than he had given last year. He contended that they were entitled to more information about this matter befoi'e they were asked'to sanction this vote. Mr Graham supported the, vote, and said that if all this money were spent at the Nelson end, it would carry on the line to a place where it would be remunerative.

Sir R. Stout said that he had moved to reduce the vote because he considered that £13,000 would be sufficient to carry on the line till they saw what the Company and the debenture-holders were going to do. That would also be ample to give work to the unemployed in Canterbury and Nelson during th'e winter months. The Hon R. J. Seddon again justified the vote and said that this railway was by legislation passed by the House as much an ordinary railway of the colony as any other line. Sir R. Stout said that the position was that the' Premier wished the House to commit itself to the construction of this line out of borrowed money, although it had never been sanctioned by Parliament.

The Hon R. J. Seddon said that Sir E. Stout was on the horns of a dilemma, as he was willing that they should vote £15,000 out of borrowed money for this line but would not grant £25,000. He should undertake that the colony was not com- 1 mitted to more than this vote whether it were £15,000 or -£35,000, but he preferred to see the latter amount carried.

Mr Montgomery opposed the vote, and said that there was no necessity whatever for expending this money. After further debate. Sir E. Stout’s amendment to reduce the vote hy £IO,OOO was lost by 37 to 20, and £25,000 was carried. Lawrence-Roxburgh railway, £2OOO. Sir E. Stout did not know that it was of any use protesting against the line, which was a new work, and it was an utter waste of nxoney to attempt to construct this line, which had never been sanctioned by Parliament. The Hon W. J. M. Labnach said that Sir E. Stoxxt was trying to mislead the House in this instance, as he did in many others. He said that this line really shovxld have been the Otago Central, as it was much shorter and would have been less expensive. Those who knew this route would, he felt sure, vote for this small sum of £2OOO. .

Mr Buchanan said that they were told in the Public Works Statement that the Government intended to reduce the expenditure. to the lowest possible limit, and putting this £2OOO on for a new work was quite in keeping with that promise. Mr Earnshaw strongly opposed the vote. He said that the Dunedin people did not want it, and the Dunedin papers were against it. If - they constructed a line from Lawrence to Roxburgh it, would cost six or seven thousand pounds a mile. Mr Eraser asked whether this money was to be spent.in construction of the-line or merely for survey-of it. • ■ Mr Collins also asked for information on-the subject, and said that this line would cost £320,000. . The Hon W. Hall-Jones said that he expected to receive a .report on this line and the Heriot route, and if he found that the Lawrence route was the better he might spend £2OOO in surveying the line, but no money would be spent in constructing the line without the sanction of Parliament.

Sir R. Stout .said that if they voted for this .£2OOO they would -be sanctioning a new railway which the colony could not afford to go in for. Mr T. Mackenzie said he should oppose the construction of the line by the Roxburgh, but should support it by the Heriot route, as he considered that the more suitable. Vote struck out by 28 to 25. Otago Central, -£30,000. Carried. Forest Hill Tramway, .£3OOO, elicited a lengthy discussion. Passed. Additions to open lines, -860,000. Sir E. Stout thought this sum should not come out of loan, and he. moved a reduction of V ; ■ After a long discussion the amendment was lost and the vote carried. Main roads, i 812,000. During the, discussion that ensued the Hon J. M’Kenzie said that it would take two millions of money to provide all the roads and bridges asked for by members of the House. Vote passed. Miscellaneous roads and bridges, .£21,694.- • Mr Pieani moved that the vote should be reduced by .£1 as an indication that the Government should, contribute -86000 towards the construction of the Manawatu Gorge bridge. The Hon J. M’Kenzie said that the Government had been waiting for the local bodies tb do something in this matter, but they could not agree amongst themselves, and would do nothing. He suggested that

Mr Pirani should withdraw his amendment. Mr Pirani complied, and the. vote passed without alteration. Development of thermal springs and natural scenery, .£41,715. Sir R. Stout objected to this money being expended on roads. He moved that the vote should be reduced by £6,715 so as to leave it at £35,000. (Left sitting at 2 a.m.)