PARLIAMENTARY

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXXXII, Issue 10482, 20 October 1894, Page 5

PARLIAMENTARY

[Per Press Association. I LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Friday, Oct. 19. AFTERNOON SITTING, The Council met at 2.30 p.m. WILSON liAND BILL. The Waste Lands Committee recommended ‘'that the Wilson Land Bill be not allowed to proceed.” BALLANOE MEMORIAL. The Joint-House Committee brought up the report on the Ballance Memorial, the Committee recommending that an obelisk surmounted by a bust of the deceased statesman should be erected in the Parliament grounds. The Hon J. Kerr, as an amendment, moved—“ That the report be referred back to the Joint-House Committee, with a view to a more acceptable recommendation being made to the Council.” The amendment was lost by 22 to 10, and the motion agreed to. APPOINTMENT OP MANAGERS. The Hons Bowen, Bonar and Montgomery were appointed managers at a conference on questions at issue on the Tramways Bill. Sir George Whitmore, Sir Patrick Buckley, the Hons Shrimski and M’Lean were appointed managers at & second conference on the Criminal Code Bill. The Hons Bowen, Williams and Ormond were appointed a committee to draw up reasons for insisting upon the amendments in the Native Land Court Bill, and subsequently the same honorable gentlemen were appointed managers at a conference on the Bill asked for by the House. FIRST READINGS, The Land and Income Assessment Acts Amendment, Public Trust Office Consolidation, Government Life Insurance Act Amendment, Weetport-Ngakawau Railway Extension Act Amendment, Unclaimed Lands and Railways Authorisation Bills were received from the House and read a first time. WESTPOBT-NGAEAWAU RAILWAY, The Westport - Ngahawau Railway Extension Act Amendment Bill was read a second time and referred to the Harbours Committee. MAJOR BROWN. The Colonial Secretary resumed tho debate upon the question “ that the report of the Public Petitions Committee on tho petition of Major Brown, of Taranaki, be referred to the Government for donsidoration.” The Hon W. H. Reynolds moved that early consideration be given to the report of the Public Petitions Committee. After a long discussion the amendment was agreed to on the voices. MINING COMPANIES. The House, by message, intimated that it disagreed with the Council’s amendments in the Mining Companies Bill. The Council insisted upon its amendments and the Hons Bolt, Bonar and Montgomery were appointed a committee to draw up reasons for so insisting. SEA FISHERIES. The Colonial Secretary moved the second reading of the Sea Fisheries Bill, which was agreed to. At 5 p.m. the Council adjourned 'till 7.30 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The Council resumed at 7.30 p.m, POST AND TELEGRAPH DEPARTMENT. The Colonial Secretary moved the second reading of the Post and Telegraph Department Bill, which was to place the two departments under one head. The only other proposition was to make a Board of Appeal. Agreed to on the voices. SHIPPING AND SEAMEN.

The Shipping and Seamen’s Act Amendment Bill was committed, and several clauses were amended as proposed by the Labour Bills Committee. Some discussion took place on clause 1, u number of hands for coastal or intercolonial trade vessels.” The Hon G. M’Lean moved to strike out the word “ only ” as applying to steamers plying within river limits, with the view of inserting the words "or extended river limits.”

The Hon J. Eigg remarked that it was clearly the duty of the State to ascertain that a sufficient number of hands were engaged on river boats,' in order that security to life might be made as sure as possible. . The Hon R. Oliver said the clause had engaged the earnest consideration of the Council, and it was believed, after a very full examination of witnesses, including Members of Parliament who knew the district well, that the words proposed to be omitted should be excised. The boats employed in the Auckland coastal and river trade were built expressly for deck cargo carrying purposes, and were engineered as a rale by competent men who had a large interest in the vessels. The Hons Moeeis and Swanson said the boats referred to were virtually carriers’ carts, and but for these the settlers would be debarred from sending produce to the markets.

The Hon J. E. Jenkinson said there was eaual danger in extending river limits, aa in boats sailing round the coast. The Hon W. T. Jennings said there should be a clause similar to one- in the Imperial Act, giving power to the Board of Trade to make regulations controlling the working of small coastal and river steamers.

The Hon H. Feld wick-raised a point of order, remarking that the proceedings for the last hour were informal, inasmuch as a conference of both Houens was sitting. He moved that progress be reported. After a debate, Mr Feldwick withdrew his amendment, and the motion to strike out the word “only” waa struck out by 21 to 5, the dissentients being the Hons Bolt, Bigg, Jenkinson, .Montgomery and Buckley. The Clause as amended? waa agreed to. Clause 14, “ wages to b© paid annually.” The Hon W. M. Bolt Tailed to sea why shipmasters should not -carry money with them with which to pa-j their crews on the first of the month. ' The Hon W. Swanson remarked that shipowners bow had the best of it. The Hon J. Macqekgok moved the excision of the Clause. The Hoa W. T. Jennings oxpsassed the hope that the Clause would be retained. After a discussion the amendment to strike out the Clause was carried by 18 to

10. Clause 17, "punishment of offences.” The Hoa J. A. Bokar moved for subsection 6, assault on officers on the high seas, to substitute six months for twelve weeks on conviction. This was agreed to by 12 to 9. The Bill as amended was reported, read a third time, and passed. NATIVE LAND BILLS. Several Native Land Bill ■ swere received from the House, read a first and second time, and referred to the Native Affairs Committee. The Little Barrier Island Purchase Bill was read a first and second time, and also referred to the Native Affairs Commilteo. MINING COMPANIES. The Hons Qonar, Bolt and Montgomery were appointed managers at the conference on the Mining Company’s Bill. PUBLIC TRUST OFFICE. The Colonial Secretary moved the second reading of the Public Trust Office. Consolidation Bill. Motion agreed to without debate. The Council, at 11,30 p.m., adjournedtill next day at 11. a.m, HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. MORNING SITTING. LITTLE BARRIER ISLAND. The House mot at 11.30, and went into committee on the Little Barrier Island Purchase Bill. In reply to Mr Hone Heke, The Premier eaid the Government bad resolved not to agree to counsel for the Native owners of the island being hoard at the Bar of the House. Mr Here then moved that progress be reported in order to protest against the. passage of a measure which he said practically meant confiscating the interest of certain Natives in this island. He had a telegram from Tanotabi, one of the Native owners, stating' that he had only signed

conditions, and theea «onditionß had slot been complied with. A lengthy debate followed. In which Captain Russell, Sir Robert Stout, Messrs Button, Carroll, Duncan, Orowther, W. Hutchison, Thompson, Allen, Duthio, Hogg, 8011, the Premier’and Minister of Lands took part. Sir E. Stout took exception to this matter being dealt with in a public BUI, and Mr Bell expressed the hope that the Council would throw tho measure.out, on the ground that it is a private Bill. Several members made three or four speeches, and the motion to report pro* greas was still under discussion House rose for luncheon. AFTERNOON SITTING. The Honse resumed at 2.80 p.m. LITTLE BARRIER ISLAND. In committee on the Little Barrier Bill. Mr Here spoke at some length against the Bill being proceeded with this session. He also raised a point of order as to whether or not this was a private Bill, as it dealt with the property of individuals. Mr Joyce ruled that was for the Speaker, to decide, and did not come within the province of the Chairman .of Committees. After further lengthy discussion, Clause 1 was passed on the voices and the remaining clauses were passed without alteration. On the motion for the third reading, Mr Hhkk asked for the Speaker's ruling as to whether the Bill was not a private Bill. The Speaker said the rule as to private Bills did not apply to Native lands. The Bill, was, therefore, a public one. Mr Bell did not wish to dispute moment the Speaker’s ruling, but thought ths Standing Orders should be amended eo os to give the Natives the same right &8 Europeans in this respect. He protested against Bills of this kind being allowed ta> passMr Heke also protested against the Bill passing, and said that a surprise had been sprung on the Native owners by passing this Bill at the last stage of the session. The Bill was read a third time and passed. ' POST OFFICE BILL, Sir E. Stout brought up the'report of the Statutes Revision Committee, to the effect that it was too late a stage of the session for the Committee to consider the Post Office Bill, The Hon J, G. Ward said this, was a very important Bill, and he hoped the House would proceed with it this .session. One very important portion of the Bill dealt with the Savings Banks, and if the House remained for another fortnight it should pass the Bill. He moved that the Bill be an order of the day for the ‘ next day. Several members opposed the motion, and contended that the Bill was too important to be dealt with in the last few days of the session. The motion was carried by 40 to 22. BALLANCE MEMORIAL. Mr G. Hutchison brought up the report of the Joint House Committee, to the effect that a life-size statue should be erected in the Parliamentary grounds to the memory of the late John Ballance. , After some discussion, the Hon R. J. Seddon moved—" That the report of committee be adopted.” Agreed to. BILLS TO BE DROPPED.

Captain Russell asked the Premier to state what Bills he intended to proceed with.

The Hon E.J. Seddon said he proposed to drop the Rating of Crown Lauds, Hospital and Charitable Aid Amendment, Fencing, Beetroot Sugar, and-Employers Private Benefit Society Bills. This was agreed to, and the Bills discharged. SECOND READINGS. The Honß, J, Seddon moved the second reading of the Native Land Court Ce-id-eate Confirmation Bill. Agreed to. V*' The Hon E. J. Seddon moved the-seesnf reading of the Native Land ft. Titles Act Amendment Bill; HesaiJi he Bill proposed that Native Land Cvrt judges could act as judges of the ?>: • <■ tion Court. It also proposed to certain transactions shout the iega sit. -.-r which some doubt '' Sir R. Stout opposed the Bill. . Mr Stevens supported the Bill. l\:y held that Native Land Court judge;, should be in a position to validate titles. Mr Mitohblson hoped the House would not pass the Bill, He should not agree to any one or .more-of the present iL -'ve Land Court Judges being Judges of the Validation Court. ' ’ Mr Button supported the Bill. He held that some of the Native Land Court Judges were quite competent to be Juiges of the Validation Court; Mr Gr. Hutchison said the Bill vraa at variance with the Bill of last year. Captain SussHLL/said the powers under the Bill of last , year were\o very wide

that they could only he *xer&ed by'.x&en especially qualified tr» the propose. Mr Thomi-son said ihe appointment tf Native Land Court Tall&tien Judges would not meet with the approval of tbs public. After further debate tfiff motion w&S carried by 46 to 12. NATIVE LAND COURT CERTIFICATES. The Native Land Court Certioates Confirmation Bill was committed and passed without amendment. , NATIVE LAND BOUNDARIES. The Native Land Claims and Boundaries Adjustment Bill was committed. The House rose at 5 p.m. EVENING SITTING, , The House resumed at 7.30 p.m, NATIVE LAND TITLES.' The Native Land Validation of Titles Act Amendment Bill was committed. A lengthy discussion arose on Clause 2 4 providing that Native Land Court Judges may be appointed Judges of the Validation Court. Mr Button moved that .District Court Judges may be appointed Judges of the Validation Court as well as Judges of the Native Laud Court. Agreed to. Sir B. Stout proposed an amendment' to the effect that any Judge appointed to the Validation Court should be a barrister of tho Supreme Court. The Eon B, J. Seddon opposed the amendment. ,

Mr Stevens also strongly opposed it. Sir R. Stout said that greater power 1 was proposed to be given to Judges of the Validation Court than to Judges of the Supreme Court. He felt sure that if the committee studied the subject it would admit that this power should not be lightly granted. The Hon B. J. Seddon suggested that the committee should como to a decision, so aa to proceed with business. Mr Here said this Bill was only a sham and a delusion as far as Native custom was concerned. He supported the amend" meat.

After farther discussion Sir 3.. Stout’s amendment was lost by 40 to 23.' Clause 4—Such Judges to be deemed to have been appointed under the said Act.

The Hen 3. J . Seddon moved to amend the clause by inserting that " Judges shall not necessarily ha .appointed for■'-» fixed period.” Agreed to. Several new clauses were added to. the Bill, which was read a third time and passed. NATIVE BILLS. The Natives Lands Claims and Boundaries BUI and Native Land Court Certificate Bill were read a third time- and passed. BANKING BILL. , ThoHott J. G. Ward moved the second reading of the Banking BUI, to amend the Bapk Note Issue Aob, 1893, and to prohibit, unless with thei consent of Parliament/ amalgamation by. the Bank of New Zealand, Ho said' when the present Government took office the Australian Colonies were going through a very severe financial crisis, which tho revenue of the whole of those colonies. The loss to Victoria alone ex ceeded the amount guaranteed by this colony to the Bank of New Zealand, and he felt sure that the pplony was right in giving that guarantee,

able to avert a crisis, and he ttongbfc they should bo congratulated ® n ..^ fc . Prom all the information at w?® I®* 1 ®* of the Government, he fait ea ™J h ** *}%? had passed through „ v m crisis, bat the reason why the' «®wwn moat proposed this Bill was that 8 recess would occur before the Hou again, and the Government wished to have power to do what might ba desirahla m this respect: He referred to the proposed iESUO of bank notes by the Government. Ha wished to disabuse tbe_ mind of any honorable member who imagined that the Bill would allow an unhmitod iesue of bank notes to any hank m the cotoiy.r" license as to the issue of bank notes under this Bill was limited, and the legislation of this colony was better than the Australian legislation, so tha'b our‘ was a sounder one than that of t^° a ® colonies. Ho also desired to state that whilst the note issue was to be a nrst df4e on the assets of any inaibituhon carrying on business in the colony, he proposed, il addition to the ordinary assets, that it should include the paid-up capital, uncalled capital and reserve fund. He ■wished to state that there was nothing, so far as the Government was concerned, to warrant the Government bringing m this legislation, and it was only m case of emergency that it wished to be forearmed. With regard to Clause 8, ho might say that the Government expressly desired to make it clear that no amalgamation would take place without the consent of Parliament. The Government thought that the legislation it whs now proposing would have a steadying effect on business, and that was the reason why it proposed it. There was a universal, opinion that what the Government had done with respect to the Bank of New Zealand was in the best interests of the colony. Mr Bunn said the Government was

asking the House to incur grave responsibility in guaranteeing an institution that could not show any margin between its assets and ita liabilities. He felt that :itwas no use to sound any note of warning to the Colonial Treasurer. This Bill would enable the Government to prop up with the guarantee of the colony an institution that might be thoroughly rotten. Captain Ettsseli. could not deny that a strange apprehension existed in his mind over this Bill. They were recently told, after guaranteeing two millions to the Bank of Now Zealand that there was a finality to the business. This Bill was simply to increase the powers under the Bank-Note Tasne Act, and clause 3, referring to nonamalgamation, was the merest paddnlg. They 0 were asked to guarantee the notes of institutions of whose position they could have no accurate knowledge. Ho felt that by making bank notes of equal value with coin, the Government was a system which might be most [injurious to the colony. Mr Sattndeks referred to the fact that the House was suddenly ballad upon to guarantee two millions to the Bank of New Zealand. There was a good deal of doubt in people’s minds as to whether they did a ■wise thing or not. However that might ;be, ha thought they were now, called upon to do a most unwise thing. They were asked not only to guarantee that bank but all the other banks in the colony. He should move an addition to clause 2, that it shall not apply to bank notes issued by the Bank of New Zealand. Mr G. Hutchison said, if this Bill were 'to be passed, there should be a provision inserted to the effect that it should not take effect unless the assets in the colony exceeded the liabilities in the colony by the amount of the note issue which was mads a legal tender. He contended that a provision of this kind was necessary, aa the colony would ha ultimately liable for those notes if after the proclamation expired a hank was not able to pay. With respect to the amalgamation clause he said the Bank ox New Zealand never desired the amalgamation which was proposed by He had given notice of anamendment in committee to the effect thdv the public account should be kept at the Busk of New Zealand, and he hoped it world be carried. Mr \Buchanan regretted that the Coicnal Treasurer should bring in a Bill concahing sur-h a clause as Clause 2. It meant ;hat t-nis mlony was to guarantee -the position of any bank, although it may - thSa sufficient to meet its apparent The proposal seemed

a monstrous one. Mr Duteik said the assurance given by the Traaaursr, that no amalgamation would taka place daring the recess, would have been sufficient without a Bill o£ this kind. Mr Hoso strongly supported the Bill. Sir B. Stout regretted the necessity for another Bank Bill, but when the Treasurer told them there was a necessity for it, they must accept such an assurance. The only part of the Bill he objected to was Clausa 2, and he suggested that tho Treasurer should give a pledge that he would not guarantee any note° issue of any bank unless he was satisfied that it waa thoroughly secure. The Hon E. J. Seddon deprecated the speeches <jf members, and said they ought to congratulate themselves that whilst the Australian colonies had passed through such s. severe crisis New Zealand had remained comparatively scatheless. He defended the legislation of the Government, and said it was the intention of the legialafcure when it passed the banking legislation earlier in the session that the Government should bring in a Bill of this kind, to msst any emergency that might arise. This was not a party question at all, and their aim should be to see that what had occurred in other colonies should not occur In New Zealand. He claimed that what the Government had done had been prudent, and would prove absolutely safe for tho colony. He denied that it was either tho Colonial Bank or the Government that had first suggested an amalgamation. F>, had not said that before, but ha fait that it ought to be said in justice to the Colonial Bank. Tho Government had been very cautious in what at ii&i dons, and it had no intention of increasing its responsibilities. In proposing the present legislation the Government was onlv doing what it had been asked to do for' weeks past by members on both sides. Mr Thompson opposed Clause 2. Mr M’Eenzie (Buller) moved the adjournment of the debate till Monday afternoon. Lost on the voices. Dr Newman said the Premier had spoken for half an hour, and hod told them nothing at all about the matter. There was no statesmanship whatever in tho Colonial Treasurer’s proposals. He opposed Clause 2 altogether. As to the _ clause referring to amalgamation, it did not matter whether it went through or not. Mr G. J. Smith approved of Section 3, which proposed that there should be no amalgamation; bub the section relating to bank note issue spoiled the Bill, and he should move in Committee to strike it out. The Hon J. G. Ward, in reply, defended the action that the Government had taken. It was very easy for an Opposition that had little sense of responsibility to criticise tho Bill. All that the present Bill wanted to do was to enable an institution, in case of any emergency arising, to say that its assets were in excess of its liabilities. The Opposition seemed to forget that the Government would do its best, in tho interests of the colony, should an emergency arise. Ae to Mr Saunders’ amendment he thought, if honourable members wished to do a good turn to the Bank of New Zealand, they would not support that amendment, as the effect would he to create an impression that there was soma strong reason for passing an amendment of the kind. ' The motion for the second reading was figKeed to by 49 to 16. (Left sitting at 2 a.m.)