PARLIAMENTARY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume LXVIII, Issue 8360, 23 December 1887, Page 5

PARLIAMENTARY.

[Per Press Association.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Thursday, Dec. 22. MORNING SITTING. Tire Legislative Council met at 11 a.m. FISHERIES CONVENTION. The Fisheries Conservation Bill was received back from the House of Representatives with a slight amendment, which was concurred in. governor’s salary bill* A message was received from the Governor, informing the Council that His Excellency had reserved the Governor's Salary Bill, which had passed both branches of the Legislature, for Her Majesty’s assent. FIRST READINGS. The following Bills were received from the House of Representatives and read a first time, the second reading being ordered to be taken at 2.30: Public Revenues Bill, Midland Railway Bill, Property Tax Bill. The Council, at 11.15, adjourned to 2.30. AFTERNOON SITTING. The Council resumed at 2.30. SHEEP BILL. The Hon Mr Stevens moved—" That the amendments of the House of Representatives in the Sheep Act Amendment Bill be concurred in. He explained that the amendments referred to debarring owners of flocks from receiving compensation for flocks destroyed in cases wherein the owners had kept back from the Inspectors the fact that they knew their sheep were infected. The Council agreed to the amendments. PUBLIC REVENUES BILL. The Hon Mr Stevens moved the second reading of the Public Revenues Bill. The motion was agreed to without debate. The Bill was committed, reported, and passed all its stages. MIDLAND RAILWAY BILL. The Hon the Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Midland Railway Bill. In doing so, he remarked that the Bill had been framed so as to confer " running powers” to the Company over the line. The Company, by the Bill, were compelled to commence the line at different points, and therefore the Government considered the running powers clause should be conceded.

The Hon Mr Waterhouse presumed that the Colony would be again a loser by this new concession. He should like to ask what the loss to the State would be. The Hon the Attorney-General was not prepared to say off hand if there would be any loss, but he anticipated that there would be but a slight one, if any. The Hon Mr Waterhouse feared that the first concession would entail others. He apprehended that the Colony would have to grant still further concessions. He viewed the Bill with considerable alarm, and only hoped his fears would prove groundless. However, he should not oppose the Bill. The motion for the second reading was agreed to. GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL. A message was received from the House of Representatives, announcing that the House had agreed to the amendment in the Government Railways Bill, embodying the resolution that tbe salary of tbe Chief Commissioner should not exceed £2500 per annum. The Hen the Attorney-General moved that the amendment be agreed to, so that a suitable person might be obtained either through the Agent-General or from one of the Colonies. The Hon Mr Buckley trusted the amendment would not be agreed to, as he considered that a good man at a much smaller salary might be obtained in the Colony. Tbe Hon Mr Pharazyn, while he regarded the Bill much in the light of experimental'' legislation, would not oppose the amendment. The Hon Mr Waterhouse thought the responsibility should be left with the Government, and consequently he would not oppose tho question, but while be said this he trusted the Government would endeavour to obtain a suitable man in the Colony. The Hon Mr Bonar concurred with the remarks of Mr Waterhouse. The Hon the Attorney-General declined to accept any responsibility in the matter, as any responsibility must rest with the Legislature. Every possible effort would be made by the Government to obtain the best man either within or outside the Colony. The amendment was agreed to on the voices. property-tax bill. The Hon the Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Property-Tax Bill. The motion was agreed to on the voices, the Bill committed, reported, and passed all its stages. in committee. The Council went into Committee on the Midland Railway Bill. The Hon the Attorney-General, on Clause 3, moved an amendment, embodying the resolution sent down to the House of Representatives in relation to the increase in the Chief Commissioner’s salary. The amendment was agreed to. The Bill as amended was reported, read a third time, and passed. An amendment in the Public Bodies Powers Bill, received from the House of Representatives, was agreed to. The Council, at 3.40, adjourned to 7.30.

EVENING SITTING. The Council resumed at 7.30, and adjourned immediately to 5.30. The Council resumed at 8.30. NAVAL DEFENCE BILL. The Australasian Naval Defence Bill was received from the House of Kepresentatives, and was read a first time on the motion of the Hon the Attorney-General. The Council adjourned to 9.30. The Council resumed at 9.30. The Hon the Attorney-General moved the second reading of the Australasian Naval Defence Bill. The Hon Mr Bonab expressed his entire approval of the Bill. It was only a fair thing that they, should he called upon to protect their own maritime commerce. It should be recollected that the Colony was a fairly responsible child of the Empire, and as the Bill was a reasonable one, so far as self-protection was concerned, the Council could not but pass the Bill. With regard to the Colonies who have not accepted self-defence, he could only say that the time was in the immediate future when the Colonies which were not in the scheme would very speedily join in it. The Hon Mr Hart cordially supported the Bill, even if only as a matter of insurance. The Hon Mr Pharazyn also supported the motion for the second reading, but while doing so he regretted that domestic measures in another place had prevented the Bill from being brought down early in the session. It had been stated that had the provisions of the Bill been brought before the country at the late elections the verdict of the people would have been adverse to the Bill. This, however, was not his opinion, as he believed that it would he an act of meanness if not cheerfully agreed to, to assist the Mother Country in defence of itself. As a matter of mere assurance it was but prudent, as Mr Hart said, that the Colony should pay its quota towards the defence of the Australasian Colonies. But quite apart from this, he believed in the sentiment of the federation of the Empire. The passing of the Bill would materially affect a grand measure, even if such were regarded from a mere pounds shillings and pence point of view; nor would the unison for defence purposes on the part of the Colonies have a bad effect, whether the Bill was regarded in the light of tho defence of the Colonies or from only a commercial aspect. The Hon Mr Sueitard regretted that the Council in the very last hours of the session had been called upon to decide a i most momentous question. The matter to be decided must not be regarded from a sentimental' point of view. What he;

would ask was, what had the Colony to do with the wars and quarrels of the Old World, without regard to sentiment ? The only thing the Council had to consider was the safety of the Colony, and the Bill should not in the last hours of the session be attempted to be hurried through. He moved the adjournment of the debate, as he did not believe in the Colony being called upon to interfere with the politics and quarrels of the Mother Country. The Hon the Attobnet-General said that after listening to the speech of Mr Shephard, he was both surprised and disgusted. The Colony was not asked to enter into the quarrels of the Old Country, but was only asked to defend itself against possible aggression, and he trusted and believed that Mr Sheppard would be found to be the only black sheep in the Council. The question was agreed to on the voices. The Bill was committed, and reported without amendments. On the motion for the third reading, The Hon Mr Sheppard protested that he would in the future, as in the past, always exercise his right to express his opinion. He had not objected to the Bill, but merely to the Bill being hurried through at such a late stage of the session. The Hon Mr Richmond took occasion to express his support of the Bill, which he imagined, as long as they possessed the blood of Englishmen coursing through their veins, they must agree to. The Bill was read a third time and passed. LOAN BILL. The New Zealand Loan Bill was received from the House of Representatives, read a first and second time, committed, reported, and passed all the final stages. The Council at 10.30 adjourned to 11.30. The Council further adjourned from 11.80 p.m. awaiting business from the House of Representatives. HOUSE OP REPRESENTATIVES. Wednesday, Dec. 21. EVENING SITTING. FISHERIES CONSERVATION. The House went into Committee on the Fisheries Conservation Act, 1884, Amendment Bill, which was passed through with verbal amendments, reported, read a third time, and passed. OTHER BILLS PASSED. The Property Tax Amendment Bill, and Public Revenue Bill, were also read a third time and passed. MIDLAND RAILWAY. The Midland Railway contract was next considered. The Premier stated that the Company had accepted the proposals passed by the House, with the exception of those relating to running powers. Alternative proposals had now been made, respecting the Government undertaking running on the four small detached sections. He intended now that Government should undertake such running, giving the Company 40 per cent of the gross proceeds. From this there might be a small loss, probably from £IOOO to £IBOO.

The resolutions were agreed to, and were ordered to be read as a portion of the draft contract presented by the Midland Railway Committee in their report. The Bill granting power to enter into the contract was then introduced, and the House at once went into Committee on the Bill, which was reported without amendment, read a third time, and passed. The House rose at 2.15 a.m. till noon today. Thursday, Dec, 22. MORNING SITTING. The House met at noon. GOVERNMENT RAILWAYS BILL. The Government Railways Bill was received by message from the Governor, with an amendment, making the salary of the Chief Commissioner of the Railway Board £2500 a year, instead of £ISOO as passed by the House. ' Mr.Do.wNiK Stewart thought £2300 an excessive amount!' ‘ The Hon E. Mitchelson said Government had no intention of paying such a large salary as £2500 if they could get a competent man for less. Mr K. Reeves (Inangahua) thought it an anomaly that a Commissioner should receive three times more salary than his chief (the Minister for Public Works). Dr Fitchett moved to substitute £1750 for £2500.

Mr O’Conoe hoped the amendment would be withdrawn, as the Commissioner’s duties would be of a most important character. Mr Peacock thought the hands of the Government should not be hampered in the way of salary, especially as men in the position of Chief Commissioner of Railways sometimes received double the salary now proposed by the Government. Mr Moss opposed the increase and Mr Buchanan supported it. After a long discussion, The Hon Major Atkinson hoped the House would agree to the proposal of the Government. The appointment was one of great importance, and the whole success of the scheme would depend on getting a competent man for the office. He assured the House that no appointment would be made until it had received most careful consideration. The House went into Committee of Supply to consider the Governor’s message rc the Government Railway Bill. In reply to Sir Julius Vogel, The Hon Major Atkinson said the Bill could not come into force till the Government had made all necessary arrangements. They proposed to make inquiries for a suitable Chief Commissioner in England, America, and the Colonies, New Zealand included.

Sir G. Grey urged at 1.15 that the usual lunch adjournment should be taken. The Hon Major Atkinson hoped the Committee would settle the matter before the lunch adjournment, as a long discussion had already taken place on it. He hoped a division would be taken at once, as this was the last day of the session, and there was other business to he brought on. Sir George Grey still urged the Committee to adjourn till 2.30 p.m. Mr J- C. Brow'n moved to report progress. Lost by 29 to 11. Sir George Grey then moved an amendment to the effect that no alteration he made in the salary of XISOO passed by the House. Sir J. Vogel was willing to meet the Government half way, and agree to .£2OOO instead 0fX2500. Mr Guinness supported the amendment. On a division, the amendment was lost by 22 to 14. Mr R. Reeves (Inangahua) moved a further amendment to strike out X 2500 and insert X 1750. Sir G. G bey moved to report progress. Lost by 23 to 12. Mr Reeves’ amendment was then put and lost by 22 to 13. The resolution, as recommended by the message from His Excellency the Governor, was, on a division, agreed to by 22 to 10. Colonel Eraser and Mr Moss protested against the action of the Government in this matter, after which the resolution was reported to the House, which at 2.10 adjourned till 3 o’clock.

AFTERNOON SITTING. NAVAL DEFENCE BILL. The Hon Major Atkinson moved the second reading of the Australasian Naval Defence Bill. He regretted that the Bill, through unavoidable circumstances, had been postponed till the last day of the session, but the proposals had been before the House for some time past. The Bill appeared to him to be the first real step toward uniting the Colony in a closer bond of union with the Old Country, and he hoped the House would see the wisdom of passing it unanimously. If, by consenting to this Bill, the House agreed to contribute to the cost of the defence of the Empire, the question would then reasonably be asked whether it was right that the Colonies should not have some voice in any question involving peace or war, and he had been for a long i ,time in iavour- of contributing a smalh

portion of the cost of such defence with this object. If they were to be considered a part of the Empire (and he was proud to say they were so), was it not only fair and reasonable that the Colony should contribute to the cost of the defence. The proposition was that there should be practically a part of the Imperial fleet here, which the Colony should pay for. He referred to the class of ships proposed to bo employedfor the purpose, and said theseven vessels to he used were first-class of their kind. The total cost of the fleet was £700,000. and the Imperial Government was to find the money for building the ships, the Colonies to pay 5 per cent of the cost for 10 years. The whole sum to he contributed by the Colonies was £90,000, and he thought the cost to be contributed by this Colony of some £20,000 was a very reasonable amount. Two ships were always to be stationed in New Zealand waters, which would be of great advantage to the Colony in many ways, in supplying the ships with coals, provisions, &c., so that a very large amount would be received back by the Colony in return for its contribution. One of the reasons why the Government asked the House to agree to the Bill was that it will take two years to build those ships. The Imperial Government intend to lay the whole matter before Parliament in February next. If the matter were delayed till next session it would mean a delay of 12 months, which he thought was very undesirable. The proportion of cost was allotted according to the population of the various Colonies, and New Zealand’s share was set down at £21,600. It seemed to him the population basis was the right one to take. He should propose a clause in the Bill to theeffectthatNew Zealand’s contribution should be on the basis of all the Colonies contributing. As for our land defences, he said the Government were considering whether it would not be wise to concentrate their attention upon fortifying one port only, to which ships could run for coal and refitting purposes. It was clear that, in case of war, they must have some port into which ships could run. It was well known that during the last war store Russia had made arrangements to make a raid on Australia, so that it was well to he prepared for such a contingency. He hoped that the House would see its way to assent to this Bill, and he considered they were getting a fair equivalent for their money by the protection that would be afforded for their commerce and property. Sir J. Vogel supported the Bill, but he thought the grounds on which Major Atkinson formerly supported it were much to be regretted. He should, with the Premier, desire to see the Empire federated, but he failed to see that this Bill would effect such a federation. It was no new idea of his, as he had advocated it 17 years ago. He contended that there had been no desire for the federation of the Empire, as, if there were, the subject would have been considered at the recent Imperial Conference. He did not believe that a contribution of the kind they were now asked to make would lead to federation. He was of opinion that Great Britain was not far off a system of Protection, and when that came on the question would be whether preference would he given to the Colonies in the matter of duties. That would be more likely to effect federation than anything else. He should like to have entered more fully into the whole question if time had permitted. It was quite reasonable, he considered, that all parts of the Empire should contribute towards its defence, but he thought the Crown Colonies should not be excepted from this contribution. He regretted that the Government had not laid all the papers relating to the Imperial Conference on the table, but he considered that great credit was due to Sir F. Dillon Bell and Sir W. Fitzherbert, who represented New Zealand at the Conference, that they had succeeded in reconciling the other Colonies to New Zealand getting two ships of war to itself, which the late Government had insisted on as a sine nwi non . As to the Bill now before the House, he was not altogether satisfied with the manner in which it was Jdrawn, and one or two amendments were meceaeary. Ho wished to say that while ,the Bill wonld lead to federation, which .Would he beneficial to the Empire and Colonies, he saw no desire at present io effect such federation, but he shared with the Premier the hope that the Bill would be passed as quickly as possible. Mr Hutchison said the importance of the Bill was only an argument against it. and ho considered it was neither complimentary to the Parliament of Great Britain, nor that of the Colony, that the Bill should he hurried through in this manner. The Premier deprecated discussion on this question, and in doing so he paid no compliment to the House. He contended that there was no time to consider such an important Bill as that now under discussion. He spoke at great length against the Bill, and contended that it was futile to expect that all the ports of New Zealand could be successfully defended, in case of war, by seven or even a dozen ships. Sir G. Grey wished to know the names of the members who had paired on this Bill, as the position of those members who had paired for or against the Bill would decide those who remained in the House in voting for it. The Speaker ruled that the pairs could not be produced till they were used.

SirG. Qket blamed the Premier for not allowing the pairs to be produced, if he had power to do so. Such a thing had never been heard of before, and the hon gentleman’s knowledge of Parliamentary affairs must convince him of the impracticability of such a proposal. Sir G. Grey then moved —“ That consideration of the subject be postponed for a week.” He protested against this action of the Premier, and said the Bill was an unjust and tyrannical measure. Lost by 31 to 5. The motion for the second reading of the Bill was carried on the voices. On the motion for committal of Bill, Sir G. Grey said, in consequence of the manner in which he had been treated by the Premier, in refusing to allow the pairs to be seen, he should vote against the Bill at every stage. The committal was carried by 25 to 7. Clause 4, mode of estimating population. Mr Hutchison moved—" That the basis should been the European population. Agreed to. j The Hon Major Atkinson moved a new clause, to the effect that, if any other of the Colonies refused to pay their share of the cost, New Zealand should only be liable for its contribution on the same basis as if all the Colonies had paid their proportion. Carried on the voices. The House rose at 5.40 p.m. EVENING SITTING. The House resumed at 7.30 p.m. On the motion for the third reading of the Naval Defence Bill, Sir G. Grey protested against the Bill being passed with so many members absent from the House, and all information as to how hon gentlemen had paired on the Bill being kept from them. Mr Hutchison and Mr Fit/,Herbert protested against the Bill passing in a thin House. The Bill was then passed on the voices. LOAN BILL. The Loan Bill was received by message from the Governor with alterations as follows : —Part 1 .£70,000, unallotted. Part 3—lnsert Blenheim- Awatere, X9OOO. The Bill was then committed. A new clause was moved by the Hon Major Atkinson, providing that no money should he borrowed beyond the present engagements for three years. Sir J. Vogel strongly opposed the clause, and a long discussion ensued, Mr Perceval asked the Premier ’s opinion of this clause. The Hon Major Atkinson said his opinion of this clause was known by his proposing the clause. He thought it was necessary that our full position should be known at Home. There was no doubt the credit of the Colony was at rather a low ebb at present, hut he had every confidence it would be greatly improved before next session. An amendment to insert in the clause Westport and Greymouth Harbour Act jus-omoa g-the-present-engagemcatß-^under

which money could bo borrowed), was agreed to. The clause was passed by 27 to 17. Mr Joyce raised a point of order as to whether the vote for Immigration and Blenheim-Awatere line having been struck out by the Committee at a previous sitting, they could now bo proposed in a Governor’s message as substitutions. He contended that they should be brought down as additions, not as substitutions. The Chairman said he was nob responsible for the Governor’s message. Sir J. Vogel said he should take the Speaker’s ruling on the-matter. The Bill was then reported with amendments. Sir J. Vogel asked the Speaker's ruling as to the point of order he had previously raised. , . . . The Speaker said it appeared to him the proceedings were quite regular. Sir J. Vogel said he objected to the Speaker’s ruling. He announced his intention of taking advice on the point he had raised, and'if he found that his contention was correct he should test it in the Supreme Court. The Bill was read a third time and passed on the voices. On tho title being reached, Mr Hutchison moved—“ That it be altered to New Zealand Immigration and Loan Bill, instead of Loan Bill. Lost by 27 to 12. Sir J. Vogel moved to add to the title rr and for stopping borrowing in future.” The amendment not being seconded, lapsed. The title then passed without alteration. SUPPLEMENTARY ESTIMATES. On the motion for going into Committee of Supply, for the consideration of the Supplementary Estimates, Sir J. Vogel said he had gone through those Estimates, and found they were simply a reversal of the retrenchment policy promised by tho Government. That retrenchment was merely a sham. Ho referred to several of the items on the Estimates, and commented on them. The Hon Major Atkinson, in replying, pointed out that the late Government had spent £13,000 in arms and ammunition, when only £SOOO was authorised, and that was a specimen of the whole administration. Yet now the hon gentleman hurled charges at tho present Government for having to meet liabilities incurred by his own Government. Ho charged the hon gentleman with having, at this late stage of the session, wasted tho whole evening, and, by his action, prevented many members from reaching their homes for Christmas. The House went into Committee of Supply. Immigration, £14,000, Carried. Colonial Secretary’s office, £7723. Sir J. Vogel asked what arrangements were proposed to be made with respect to the vote of £33,000 for tho Melbourne Centennial Exhibition. The Hon Major Atkinson said the Government proposed to apply for space at the Exhibition, and had already appointed a local Commission. They intended making as good a show as possible. ■ Mr Monk moved to strike out £IOOO, contribution in aid of Imperial Institute. Sir J. Vogel asked whether, if this vote were struck out, the Premier would propose it to the House next session. The Hon Major Atkinson could not make that promise. If be thought it sensible to do so, he should propose it. The vote was struck out on the voices. The total vote as reduced was passed. Colonial Treasurer, £3065. Carried. Minister of Justice, £2716. Carried. Compensation to J. H. Atkinson for loss of office as mail agent, £250. Carried. Marine, £3BB. Carried. G. M. Park, for funds expended for extra services as telegraphist at Taupo, £2OO. Minister of Mines, £4660. Working railways, £lll7. Carried. General Post Office, Wellington, £20,000. Sir J. Vogel asked how it was possible to expend this sum, and whether the tower would be erected. ■ The Hon Mr Mitchelson said He had not time to go fully into the matter. He considered the present specifications would not insure the safety of the building. He had given instructions to have a fresh one prepared, and he could not say as yet whether the tower would be erected or not. The sum of £20,000 would be ample for all that was required. .Sir J. Vogel moved, that the vote be reduced by £9OOO. It was not necessary to erect a clock tower, but to put up a substantial building which would be suitable for the purpose, and he was informed that £13,000 was ample for this. The Hon Mr Mitchelson pointed out that the lowest tender received when Sir J. Vogel himself was in office was £13,500. Sir J. Vogel then proposed to reduce it by £6500. Tho amendment was lost by 29 to 9. Sir J. Vogel said the vote just given showed that the retrenchment sham had burst. IE he had been ten years younger he should have stonewalled this vote, and also the clause inserted in the Loan Bill for limiting borrowing for three years. The vote of £20,000 was then carried. Minister of Defence, £7386. Carried. Minister of Lands, £17,800. The Eon G. F. Richardson moved to reduce this item by £SOOO. Carried. Public Works Departmental, £432. Carried. Public Trust Office, £5330. Carried. Government Insurance Account, £48,418. Carried. Consolidated Fund for services in excess of votes, £53,685 15s Bd. ’ Carried. Public Works fund, for services not provided for, £28,633 10s Bd. Government Life Insurance Department, for services in excess of item, £1982 13s lid. Carried. THE ’FRISCO MAIL. The Hqn Major Atkinson moved the resolution respecting tho San Francisco mail service. Ho said tho Government had come to tho conclusion to ask the House to grant authority to renew the service for one year' by the present contractors. By that means there would be time to consider the matter next session and to make fresh arrangements. He then moved—- “ That, in iview of the contract of the Ban Francisco mail service terminating in November next, and of the impossibility Of giving the question consideration this session, tho Government be authorised to arrange with the present contractor for an extension of contract for twelve months, and to submit to the House nexCsessibn definite proposals for tho continuance of the service. Sir J. Vogel asked whether the Government would pay more for the service than at present. The Hon Major Atkinson replied that the cost would be the same. The motion was agreed to after some discussion. [Left sitting.]