GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XLVIII, Issue 5224, 16 November 1877, Page 3

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[Fsok thb-Bbbm Ashnoy.] LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. ; ■?.. . 16. the Legulative Council, the only im- - nortant feature of ibtaißMrwas tb* adoption S B sew elauseinfcba Education Bill, by •wbioh the Board* are to-grant any School Committee inch aid in books, school apparatus, and money, a* the Board may think expedient, or, at the option of the Committee, cash aid may be granted in money only. This, we* carried on division, by-a majority of one. HOUSE OF EEPEE3HNTAHYES. WaajBBBDAT, Nor. 14. mia ADVANCED. The following Bills were read a third time: little River Cemetery Reserve Exchange Bill, - Balolutba Athenadm Bill, Eakanui Harbour Board Bill, Waikouaiti Harbour Bill, Waikohoiti Atbcrteam Land Bill, Borough of New Plymouth Endowment Bill. The Timarn Harbour Board Endowment Bill was rend a second time. DISQUALIFICATION BILL. 1 On the motion forgoing into Committee on the Diequalifloation Bill No. 1 (Mr Belly's), The Hon J. Sheehan said the Government •sonld not agree to the Bill. The one they 'bad before the House was to amend a technical defect in the existing law, but this Bill to alter the law, and repeal that -valuable provision by which members of the House were rendered ineligible tor any perimanent appointment in the pnblie service for 12 months after coming to be members. After some slight discussion, the motion for going into Committee was lost by 32 to 10. ' SOUTH DU3SBDIH BBSBSVBB BILL. Mr SBATON moved the second reading of -the South Dunedin Besoms Bill, explaining -that its object was to vest about ten sows below high water mark on the flat in the Bontb "Dunedin Municipality for the purpose •of forming a reservoir for storm water.' Mr M'Lbak said, this land was already granted as an endowment to the Harbour Board, end the House surely would not revoke' ’ -this. He moved that the Bill be read a •second time that day six months. The Hon J. MAoahdbbw said the land was long ago promised to the Municipality, and lie could not understand bow the Harbour •Board could have got it. Mr Buena; spoke to the same effect. ‘After some further discussion, the Bill was -md a second time on division, by 16 to 13, mad then referred to the Waste Lands Committee to enquire fully into the position of the land referred to, the Committee to report an a week. TABAHAKI COUNTY BBSBEYBS BILL. This Bill passed through Committee. The House rose at 12.40 a m. Thubsday. Nov. 15. ~ ThoHonsametat 2.3pp.n1. MISCELLANEOUS, Leave of absence for the remainder of the ' -session was grantedto'Mr Button.: - Mr Ebbs gave notice of motion that in the passed relative to Mr Lusk, the House did not mean to impute corrupt con-.-duct- to< him, and that the fine of £SO be remitted. The following new Bills were introduced;— Mult to Palmerston, North land Reservation Hallway Bill (Mr Travers), Foxton Harbour and Borrowing Bill (Mr John4ttOZl)e , DIB QTjAimCITIOK BIM. Sir G. Geey moved the second reading of the Disqualification Aot Amendment Bill, No. S, the object of which was to correct a technical error in the exifting law. ' The Hon W. H. Reynolds regretted the Bill did not go farther. At present the law was a trap to catch members ‘ who might violate the law without the J slightest idea they were doing so. Had - it not been for the error which it was now . proposed to correct, he and many others would * iave lost their seats. He bad bought a newspaper with all ite engagements, one of which was a Government contract, of which be knew ..nothing, and this would have disqualified Mm. Thera were many other similar oases, •and members who might inadvertently violate the Act should not be at the meroy of any .one who likeo to sue for £IOO per day. Mr Whitakrb said the Bill would die- •. .qualify several members of the House. He wegretted that Government bad not accepted all tho recommendations of the Duqualificaition Committee, instead of only the one •embodied in the Bill. He thought questions •of disqualification should be decided by the Supreme Court, but the House should be able -Mo prevent the imposition of penalties. . Messrs Bauff and Kbes opposed the Bill, i' urging that having brought it forward on the r-vseommendstion of the Committee, Govern- ' anont should not attempt to press the Bill. Mp Ehlly and Sir B. Douglas opposed ithe Bill, '

Mr Eeid thought Parliament oonld protect 4ts dwnpurlty and honour, and that all that —wasneoeneßry was to prevent contractor* and ■civil servants sitting in the House. Mr Mostgoheby preferred the Supreme Gourt deciding quest ions ofdisqnalifioatisn. Mi Kenhbdy explained that ho would have been disqualified in regard to a eoal contract if it had not been for the error in the Act, and jet he bad not actually known that: he was a ■contractor for eome time after he became so. ’ Ha had certainly lost rather than gained hfMs contract, and had nothing to do with the ~ -contract now. It had not in any way affected , Mb Conduct in the House. Sir G. Gbby eajd the Bill bad been drawn ; an aeooxdaaos with the report of. the Corn- * ssnitteo to correct an oversight in the existing :' Act, and render operative the intentions of Parliament. It could not ha introduced ..without having a retrospective effect os affecting those scats, .which would become vacant -under it. He would leave the BUI entirely the' hands of the House, Government ~'iiaving ho personal desire fb push it forward. They were already 'preparing a BiU to alter whole electoral machinery in accordance ‘ with modern practice, simplifying the procedure, and referring the trial of all elections' ■ -■to an independent tribunal. Ibis Bill would .. he introduced next session, and it would deal, .- . xiot only with the franchise, and elections, but ■. -also with disqualifications. If members liked await this complete measure Government 1 would have no objection to this Bill being • ’.rejected. - 1 ■' The Bill was read a second time on the' . ■voices. _ tins ADTAKCBD. ? : The Fish Protection Bill was read a third •iSime,' : ■ The Miners'-Bill was further considered •in Committee, reported ae amended, end read . .-a third time. The Shipping and Seamen's Bill was read second time, and partially considered in ■Committee. ISIFBBBT 6PPPIY Bill. , On the House resuming at 7.30 p.m,, the Mon the Ooeohiaz Tbbabcbbe gave notice ■of an Imprest Supply BiU for to-morrow.': ; .... SIATEMENr ON NATIVE AFFAIES. The Hon the Native Mibistee, in moving r ? adin e o f the Native Lands Act, 1873, Amendment Bill, said that the Bill was of n purely technical oharsoter, end had no relation to the statement he* was about, to snake, and which, would have been made ,• .-earlier hod it not been for ill-health. ■ r- ' PEEfIOHAIi. Ho was still suffering, and therefore asked / 'the indulgence of the House in speaking. V No one had less idea last session than he bad' Vhst this year he would be Native Minister. ' -Greatness hod been thrust upon him, or, if - ,he > had eobieved it, he bad done so : in' spite of being the -best abused men in the House in regard to : Native matters ‘He referred to, and quoted Mr Fax's remarks in the late debate; in- reference to hit connection With the repudiation party.. He was .-..- -then unable to reply, but would do. so now.. . He was now about to propound the policy Mr Mox was so anxious for. Mr Fcr'e statemerit ■about on envoy from the repudiation party : visiting Bangitikei lately, was untrue. His , i-iaot,neotidn with the repudiation party, moreover, was simply that of. Solicitor and olient. .fJßlttd'he not allowed motives of public policy . “to influence him, that connection would hove “h»en much more profitable: Ho had lent himself to no improper practices, but had t .‘done hoatst, ond, at far m possible, able ser-

viM to Ms diiente m dfiferidiog thei? legal rights, ( uti hlseeifvioislutd, ho believed, been iuiirpmeßtal ia averting another kind _o f warfare Hum that In courts of law. He had been .the odvoeatofor the Natives, hot ia however, quaHfied him to be an impartial one. He had confined his 6dTOoaoy for yoar*to Hawke's Bay, and ref need to take them' up elsewhere, ai he would not lend himself to any general agitation, but confined himself entirely to ordinary professional work. He had refilled to take up many oases against the Government, and prevented many being brought. He had neither aided nor abetted nor suffered the acts which had taken place at Titirangi, but had discountenanced them in every way. He held in his hand telegrams showing that the alleged cattle stealing oases in the Waikato, of which to mueh bad been mode, bad no real foundation. Surveys bad certainly bean stopped in certain places, bat it was because of misapprehension in the Native mind about reserves being made. These were no more fair arguments against his Government than Sullivan’s murder and other outrages were against the late Government. He felt hurt at Mr Fox’s _ statement, remembering how Mr Fox had olimbed into power as the advocate and defender of Native interests. THB PAST POLICY. For the last five or six years Native affairs had been in one man’s hands, with only on occasional progress report, and therefore he would go more into details in his statement than would otherwise have been necessary. A policy had prevailed up to 1859 termed the Hour and sugar policy which was in many reepeots an advantageous one, If that state of things could have been re-called, the Waikato war, which took place in 1863, would not have been entered into. From then to 1889 successive wars took place, and einoo then an almost unbroken peace had prevailed. He was not disposed to, overlook the benefit to this Island from the Public Works and Immigration policy, and he wee glad to say that, overlooking all party differences, it was largely due to Sir Donald M'Lean that peace had prevailed since 1869. It would have been suicidal to. in any way have provoked a conflict at a time when the Colony was carrying out such a policy of public works, and if occasional outrages had been allowed to pass unpunished, it was, on tbs whole, better for the general good of the whole community. SMALL PBOSPBOI OF A FATITE WAB. Looking at the chances of a future outbreak, the population in the North Island was 23,639 males and 19,769 females, distributed to a large extent in North Auckland and on the East Coast. There Was absolutely no chance of war in these places. The only possible place was in the King Country, whore there were in all only a native population of 5255, of whom 2666 alone were “males. Against these were 25,000 friendly Natives and a European population of 40,000 men. The Native population was. also steadily decreasing, and all the evidence Government could collect pointed out that there was no longer reasonto fear a Native war. Even in the King Country Natives were becoming reconciled to their position, and anxious to cultivate friendly relations. He did not think that, even in the King Country, an armed force oonld now be raised against Europeans. It was desirable that this should be known as the public works scheme was not yet finished, and much more money bad to be borrowed yet to complete it satisfactorily It was therefore important to know that there was no possibility of further Native dietnr bonces. If the public worke were extended to the Native districts, all chance of rebellion would disappear. THB PEESBBT STATE OP AFFAIBS. The roads already made were more valuable as bating satisfied the Natives, and also opened up tho country in a strategetioal point of view, so that tho whole country could now be easily traversed. Justice in Native districts was administered by ah army of Native officials. In one district some time ago he found every man receiving Government pay. There was a large field open for reduction in this direction, but the system of medical comforts and assistance might fairly be continued. It was only extending to the Native districts o system in force amongst Europeans in large cities. As to education, Maoris were wonderfully quick in learning. Up to 1840 more Maoris could read, write, and work sums than Europeans, but all was taught them in Maori, and therefore in all (heir dealings they were thrown into the hands of a special class, from which cause bad grown np some of the most objectionable features of the Native Department. He bore testimony to Sir D. M'Lean’s efforts to promote education in English. This year he proposed to spend £11,600 only on Native schools, or £4OOO less than last year, and with this 50 village schools would be supported and others assisted. He would like, if possible, to increase the sum, so as to have more schools, and secure what was most desirable—a first class lot of teachers. With regard to another social question, GLrmment felt it their duty to assist the efforts the Natives were now making to suppress intemperance. The. best way of doing this would be to allow tho Natives to regulate their own districts in this respect ; and in this way he beliefed they would, in time, be able to shake off the habits of excess. Already a decrease woe visible owing partly to reduction in Government expenditure amongst them, but also largely to the extension of Good Templars. Government should in every way assist in this movement, : FATXTH LA»bS. With regard to land purchases in the pest a great error had been made in employing agents to purchase on commission. These agents looked more to quantity than to quality, and in many oases purchases had.been represented tut closed when they were hot. Troublesome people bad actually been shut out from Grown Grants, and children and improvident adults had been applied to. Large stuns bad also, been paid not to the Natives at all,; but on orders to storekeepers. Most unsatisfactory things had also taken place in regard to ; reserves, and the least possible .result '‘hod indeed been obtained for’a very large amount cif money. The total amount of land acquired was about six million acres. This looked satisfactory, but on going below the surface he found things very different. 1 Of the leasehold not a single abre was in a condition to be used. Two-thirds of the work had yet to. be. dona, with only one-fifth of the money to do it with. Only about £40,000 or £44,000 bad , been paid to Europeans for surreys and commission. At least a third of the freehold, hind would require further ei penditure to acquire a valid title. More money would tho* be required to bomphts existing bargains. It was necessary to avoid a great loss by endeavouring to make as much as possible of these transactions, and legislation would be necessary in those causes where miners were concerned. : It was. proposed to give the Governor in Council power to appoint a trustee. It was intended to at once close all outstanding transactions with purchase agents and have no more pur. chasing on commission, bnt employ; proper responsible Government officers, and absosolutoly forbid anyone connected with the Native department to purchase one acre tor himself. - So soon as the existing transactions were complete. Government should go out of the market as a purchaser of Native land. f Want of money was one reason tor this, and every month' Natives were becoming less willing to sell to Government at a low price; The -amount of money available was small, and they proposed to operate on this fund without reference to provincial distinctions, leaving 1 the adjustment of account's; to' next year. Thefts' 'were about three millions of ’acres in (bo North Island still open for purchase. .He regretted the Abolition of Grown pre-emptivorights in 1862, but it was now too late to retrace their steps in (pis direction.' If thO/present Act was a failure, as it was generally admitted it ww£' because the Native Land Oonrt had became ‘largely o servant,of the. Native Department, being used aimplyas a means for Government acquiring a landed eotate Jin the North Island, it was, hp thooght, most essential that'tho Court should be entirely free from all Government interference. Be reviewed the action of the late Government in; regard to the two Bills introduced) this session. The Suspension Bill would have been a most unjust cae; Tho

Government' now, intended; to p»»idi tog minors In Crown grants, and tor ft bettor system of hearing appeals from the Native Lends Court. Ths appeals would bo made in fteoordsftoe, however, with the existing law from one Judge who heard the oaio to another who bad not. This was all that they proposed to do this session. If the bulk ,of the work of determining titles were ,;dohe t: as it should be, by the Native chiefs, the cost of the Native Lands Court eonld he greatly rednoed. As far as possible, individualisation of title should be insisted on. This would greatly promote settlement. Something might also be done in guiding and -directing the Natives in the disposal of their lands. If Government did this fairly, he believed the Natives would take advantage of it to a large’ extent. Where the land was not suitable for small settlers, he thought it would be desirable to promote settlement on large areas. EBVBBS ENTATION. Regarding the vexed question of Native representation, he oould not agree with Mr Whitaker to abolish their representation. This would be unjust, while a large portion of the Natives could not acquire franohise in the same manner by crown grants and individual titles as Europeans could. He would propose to increase the speoial representatiou to seven members, and if after a few years a change took place in the nature of (he tenure, special representation might be abolished, and the Native representatives be elected in the ordinary manner. THE NATIVE BEPAETMBNT. Until the Natives talked English, were more mixed with Europeans, and better understood our lave and customs, a Native Department would be necessary, but for some years the department had been a barrier to settlement, and bad made work as an excuse for its existence. He bore testimony, however, to the services and. zeal of the Undersecretary, Mr Clarke, and the officer in charge of the Native schools. It was in its ramifloationo through the country that thedeportment was dangerous. He hoped before next session to reduce it from a powerful organisation to a mere skeleton, but a useful one. He had often himself felt, what it was to be insulted by a Native official, and be believed the large, reduction of the department would bring the, two races closer to each other, and make them more harmonious. BELATXONB BETWEEN THE TWO BAOBO, With reference to the King question, be maintained the genuine character of the recent telegrams from the King Oountry. They wore from Government officers entirely unsolicited and unsought. They bad also telegrams from the King and from Mann whirl, and it was hoped that the meeting of which they invited Sir G. Grey wonld.be attended by most beneficial results. . Sir G. Grey had fought the Natives no doubt. bnt that very fact raised him in their estimation, and was a recommendation Instead of a drawback. If the au&aii were abolished, he thought the credit of the Colony would be greatly enhanced. He did not suppose a single, interview would settle the difficulty. The Natives might ask what in fairness to the Colony the' Government oould not grant, but'the Natives were anxious for the settlement of -questions at issue. They had sought the interview; and be believed the results would be satisfactory. He hoped ere very long to see some leading . Waikato or Ngatimaniopoto chief a member of that House. He recalled the time when the Native question was the greatest one in the OolCny, but. since that time the proportions between the two races had been reversed. We then professed a desire to raise the Native people to on equality with; ourselves. Wo were now strong enough to disregard and repudiate all the promises then mode, but ho mistook the temper of the House and the country if this very strength would hot be an additional reason for pursuing our aim. He looked hopefully forward to the time when both races would really be one people. (Great applause.) A» the Bill was hot printed, he moved the postponement of the second reading. . • The House then proceeded to other business. .

Tho following are the precise figures need by Mr Sbeehaa in bis statement Total Native population in the North Island, 43,408; South Jlsland, 2GCB. The amount spent during the ten years ending June 80, 1871, in suppressing Native disturbances was from.tbe revenue, £781,405 6s 94; loan, £2,375.886 135 Sd; total, £3,157.291. : The amount spent on roads in the North Island to June 30 last was from defence loan', £10.750; from immigration and public works loans, £471,760. Daring the seven . years ending June 30 last, £59,197 19s Id was spent on Native schools. The total number of village schools to be maintained this year was 60, and of other schools, 11. Last year £16,892 had been spent on schools and buildings. For present year £11,571 was proposed to bo expended. £3500 more was required to meet engagements, and provide schools whtre none now existed. The land purchases in the North Island negotiated for freehold were 4 613,339 acres; leasehold, 1,540,081 acres. Of this only 1,967,402 acres at freehold were completed and no leasehold. On completed transactions £280,052 had been expended, £148921 on incomplete transaotione, and £lO2 074 in general expenses. The balance unexpended on July 1 last was £168951. In Auckland, of the £350,000 apportioned to that district, only £30,894 remained unexpended, and £52,400 was required for the current year. In Taranaki, Auckland, and Hawke’s Bay; up to November, the available balances were in excess of the sums required, this year brine no follows Wellington, unexpended £69,520, required £21,425 ; Hawke’s Bay, unexpended £40326, required £7726; Taranaki, unexpended £28,230, required £IO.OOO, [FKOSr OT7B OWN COKUESPONDBKT.') WEMJKQION, NOV 15. In the Legislative Council to-day a majority of one in Committee added to the Education Bill the Nelson Aided Schools Clause, wbioh Mr Ourtia unsuccessfully tried to get adopted in . the House. This addition is likely to cause tome trouble, not only because a very largo majority of the House is opposed to it in principle, but because it is to a certain extent an appropriation clause, and the House will resent * the sight of the Council to initiate it. ’ ( Last night was very dull, being spent over private members’ Bills. There was some little talk over the South Dunedin Reserves Bill, but the second reading was carried, on the expressed understanding that if the land has actually been granted to the Barbour Board's number of those who voted for the Bill at this stage will vote agamst it at future stages. Kelly’s Disqualification Bill was thrown oat last night and to-day. Although the' Governmentßill; oh the some ‘ subject was reed a second time, it is understood it will be dropped. I . The Public Works Statement will be mode on Tuead ay. The Opposition' intend to make a final effort-as soon astha Committee of Supply comes on. A motion censuring Minis* ter* for refusing facilities to; bring on the Want of Confidence , motion will 'then ho moved, but is not likely, to be carried. THE MU FOBD HARBOUR BILL; . The'Milford Harbour Billie at last printed.’ It consists of 15 clauses :—l, short title; ,2, interpretation 3 nnd 4 oon»titute a board of management for the port, tn oocsiet of the members of the Geraldine,; County Oonnpil for rhe time.bring'; 5, providee for appoint' rhent of chairman; 6, aeti .done. tii bei valid, notwithstanding any vaoahoy, in the',board; 7, oontraotors disqualified ; 8, appointment of treasurer ; 9, duties of treasurer 10,’management of book account j ll empowers Go-vernor-to grant to the Board the sand rpitor shingle-bunk between- the estdagy of river Opihi, known as Milford lagoon, and the its .to low-wetcr mark ; the Board may,leaie the same for 40 years ; 12, land in eohednle to he endowment for Board; 13, Board to hare power to construct all necessary works, and eoter.into eontrarts; 14, power borrow pn stCurity of'endowment to exteht’of £20,600; 16, no Board to be paid-beyond travelling expenses, ; Thesohedule » blank;