PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XLIII, Issue 4465, 5 June 1875, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Friday, Junk 4. The Speaker took the chair at noon. ■ THB DIVISION BBLL. Mr Potts called attention to the inefficient way in which the division bell was rung. In consequence of this, he had not heard It on the previous night, and was therefore not in his place, as he intended to vote in favour of the motion for an endowment to the city of Christchurch. PIGEON BAT. . Mr Pillikt asked the Secretary for Public Works what the Government intend doing with reference to Hay’s breastwork at Pigeon Bay, and the road to Port Levy P . The Hon J. T. Fbaoooe replied that he' believed the Board made application some time ago, but nothing had been done in the matter. No application had been made to the present Government since coming into office, but they thought it was a matter which was within the province of the Boad Board to attend to. MBSSBS HOLMES AND CO.’S-CLAIMS.

Mr Bluett asked the Provincial Secretary whether the Government had received any farther communication from Messrs Holmes and Co., respecting their claims, and if so, whether the Government had any objection to lav that communication on the table P

Mr Maskbll replied that the Government had received a letter about this matter, but they thought it best not to lay it before the Council. THE PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR.

Mr Wynn Williams: Sir, before the business on the Notice Paper is proceeded with, I think it is due to the House that I should make an explanation with regard to the statement made to it last night, by the hon member at the head of the Executive. (Hear, hear.) I will not detain the House by going at any length into the reasons which induced me to resign my office as Provincial. Solicitor and as a member of the Executive, as it would take a considerable time to do so. I shall do so more particularly on Tuesday next, when moving the resolution of which I have given notice this day, in connection with the Education question. I may mention that, so far as the gentlemen forming the present Government are concerned, I have agreed with them on everything except on the question of Education. I most distinctly state that my opinion is, that Education has fallen into the wrong hands—(hear, hear, (.from Mr Montgomery) and I feel honestly bound to say so, if I think so. This opinion has not come suddenly upon me. Ever since I have been in office the feeling has been growing in my mind that the subject has fallen into the wrong hands, and it has so worried me that I have been unable to attend here for two or three days past, in consequence of illness brought on by that worry. Under the circumstances, I felt that I could not continue to hold office in the Government any longer. From the very first moment that the question arose, as to the providing of sufficient funds for the necessary school buddings, I was alarmed when the hon member who holds the -office of Provincial Secretary, and whose duty it was to inquire into the state of the finances of the province, came down suddenly on me with the statement that the financial condition.of ,the,provincp was. such, that it would be impossible to find the amount required for education purposes by the Board, unless the contribution for school buildings from the people was raised from one-sixth, as at present, to one-half. (“No, no,” from Mr Maskell.) The hon member says “ no,” in a whisper. He may say “no," if he likes, but I say it was the case. A great deal of discussion took . place between us as to the bill to be introduced. In fact, I may say that this has been matter for contention between the hon member and myself ever since I have been in the Government, and after a great deal of discussion I felt bound to tell him that I could hot agree to the proposed alteration, and that I would take a.certain course if- r it were insisted, on. The Government; howeVSr, agreed to change it to one-sixth, and I drew the clause of which I gave notice, to the effect tffiatfor the present financial year, the portion to be contributed by the people of .the. districts, would be one-sixth, as now. -; Ihls; being settled,, then the question' arose^—whether the clause itself should be altered, and " one-half ” struck but, and “ one-sixth ” inserted in its place. The hon member;(tbe Provincial' Secretary) persisted! in'saying that the Words “ one-half ” must remain m the bill, bntr be would give no reason whatever for doing so; ■ and the hon member cannot deny that on Tuesday last, the day on which the question came on, I reminded him several times that the question must be decided. I gave my reason, which was, that the other members of the Government !hj»ving' conceded that the amount of contribution should be one-sixth instead of one-half, there was no reason whatever why -it sfaonlctnot be so stated in the bill. (Hear, hear.). As it. stood, I did not consider the .question one of finality, and therefore—The 8?gAKBB:. I think it advisable that the hon member should not bow go into argutnent'pn:the question, but confine himself to an explanation only. (Hear, hear,) Sir Wilson : The hon member has made statements which ought never to have beenmade. . Mr Wynn Williams : I challenge the bbn member to deny the tnifh of what Ihave said. The hon member cannot deny what took place before the-whole committee on Tuesday last, and I shall be quite prepared to argue it out when the motion of which I have given notice comes before the House. When the question came on in committee on Tuesday last, the three bon members sitting next to me, instead of remaining there, to cany .out their views on the subject, left me, their colleague, to continue to carry out the Bill as best I could. When it was proposed that toe con-, tribution should not be altered, 1 assented to it, but the hon member at the head of the Executive got up and said that he entirely differed from his colleague, and that he would not agree to the proposed alteration. If the hon members of the Government who left toe House had good reason for opposing the alteration, after they had previously conceded the point, why didn’t they come into the House and support their reasons for so doing P That was not a proper way to treat me after they had decided on the very day to concede the point I contended for. A few minutes before toe House went into committee, I reminded the hon member (the Provincial Secretary) that this question was coming on in a few minutes, and his answer was, "Stick to the words.” (Hear, hear, from Mr Maskell.) . I contend, that I was perfectly justified in declining to be treated m such a way as that, either by the President of the Executive or any other member of the Government. My reaeons for resigning are these: that 1 have come to toe .firm conclusion that we have made a mistake in doing away with the Board of Education, and leaving those hon members now on the Govern-, ment benches to have charge of education in this Province, (Hear, hear, from Mr Montgomery.) That is my firm conviction, and I shall be prepared, on Tuesday next, to show that I am perfectly justified in coming to that conclusion. Mb Maskbll : Sir, I think that after what has been said by the hon member who has jnst spoken, it is necessary that I should make some remarks with regard to the observations he has thought proper to make. The SpbakbA: I think the hon member ought not to enter into an argument of the question at this time. Mr Maskbll ; I am not going to argue any question now, but shall confine myself to the remarks that have beenmade by the hon member (Mr Williams.) The hon member save that at the time the estimates were under the consideration of the Executive, I startled him by saying that it was impossible to _ find money sufficient for school buildings. Neither I nor any other member of too Govenjment ever said any such thing; never. What T stated was, that the finances were nntin so 1 good a position as they had been, and that in future we should have to retrench, and that it was our intention to reduce the expenditure on school buildings, which we considered ex-

travagant, but we never said anything about the impossibility of providing money. The reason why the words “ one-half " were put in the bill was the same as that stated in the Financial Statement, and the hon member did not object to it at the time. Mr Wynn Williams ; Most decidedly I did.

Mr Haskell : I repeat that ■ the hon member did not object to it at the time. If he did, he never said so. The hon member says that he discussed this matter with the Government.

Mr Williams: With you. Mr Haskell : With met I have always been at one with every other member of the Government in this matter, and I believe they are entirely unanimous that this 'onehalf ought to remain in the Bill, and they have never changed that .opinion; and when the hon member, who knew from his position as chairman of the East Christchurch school committee, that the circumstances connected with that district shewed to the Government that it was going too far to make districts pay one-half this year, I was the first member of this Government to agree with that hon member; and I think it was without any difficulty at all that the Government allowed that, for the present year, one half should not be insisted on. The Government never had any idea whatever, until the result of the amendment on last Tuesday night, that the hon member was going to throw them over in the manner he did. He says we ought to have been in our places; but in answer to that, I would merely say that wo thought his honour was so involved that he would honourably carry the Bill through the House. If they had the slightest idea that the hon member would betray them in the manner in which they were betrayed, we would have been here and said that we thoroughly differed from the hon member. Not one member of the Government but would have been with the President of the Executive to have supported him in the action which he took under the circumstances. We have not the slightest objection to the hon member (Ur Williams) holding whatever views he pleases on the subject of education. We find no fault with him, but for this —that for six weeks he has remained in the Government, knowing that this was a Government Bill, knowing what our opinions were, and that the Government intended to stick to this half, and when three members of the Government were out of the House, he threw the Government over, and accepted an amendment which was moved by an hon member opposed to the Government. Mr Williams : I object to that entirely. Mr Maskbll : We do not like to be struck from behind, especially by a man whom we considered to be one of our side. Ido not think that I need say any more about it now; The hon member has given notice of 'motion, which I cannot understand until I see it in print. All matters of this kind can be fairly discussed on Tuesday; but I wish the House to understand this—that however the hod member may put his case, the case of the Government is, that they gave the hon member distinctly to understand that they could not allow him to remain in the Government after bis action on Tuesday night.. Mr Wynn Williams : I beg most distinctly to deny that. No such statement , was ever made to me by any member of the Government. I never had any such communication either from the hon member or any other member of the Government. On Tuesday night I told the hon member that if Mr Tosswill moved his amendment,! should agree to it. I deny that I ever heard a single syllable to the effect that they could not allow me to remain in the Government in consequence of what 1 had done. The hon member merely told me that Sir Graoroft Wilson wished to see me in his own room.

Sir Obaoboet Wilson— Sir, as my conduct has been referred to, allow me to say one or two words. I had no notion whatever that the hon member (Mr Williams) was going to do anything of the sort, and £ was never more astonished in my. life than when he turned and accepted the amendment of the hon member for Lincoln. Tbit has been a cardinal question with us, and the hon member knows-this to be the -ease. In order to shew that he did know it, I will quote from his speech on the subject, as follows:—“It is evident that eventually the people must pay for carrying on the system of education, and for all: repairs required.” Mr Williams': Certainly, nodoubt about it. Sir Obaoboet Wilson : 1 didn’t call for a division; I was thunderstruck at the moment by the conduct of the hon member. I trust the House will agree with me that I was right in not creating a fiasco in the House. The Speaker ; If the hon member goes into an argument of the question, the hon member (Mr Williams) must h&vetoe right of reply. Sir Obaoboet Wilson: I bow to your decision, but (the remainder of what Sir Graoroft said was not audible in the reporters’gallery.) Mr Montgomery : I should like permission to put a question to the Government. Under the Executive Council Ordinance Of 1864, it is necessary there uhould be a Pro-, vincial Solicitor to carry on the business of this House; I therefore ask the head of the Government if a Provincial Solicitor has been, appointed, in accordance with the Executive Oounoil Ordinance - of 1864 P Sir Obaoboet Wilson : Arrangements are in contemplation, and a Provincial Solicitor will be appointed much sooner than the hon member expects. (A laugh.) j The matter then dropped. , TIME BALL, LYTTELTON.

In reply to Mr Webb, The Hon J. T. Peacock said the time ball at Lyttelton could not be erected until the site was decided on. Steps would be taken to settle the question as to a site for it.

: , RESERVES.' Mr Maskell moved—" That his Honor the Superintendent be sespeotfally requested to make the following reserves acres (more or less). situate in the Ashburton district (Mount Somers road district), bounded on the northward by a line in continuation of the southern boundary of Section 5738 ; on the westward by the-road forming the eastern boundary of the same, section; on the southeastward by a road branching north-easterly towards Alford Forest; and on the southward by a line drawn parallel to the northern boundary, so as to include the required quantity ;- for school site.” The motion was agreed to.

PETITION OE CHARLES SEED AND OTHERS. Sir Obaoboet Wilson moved—" That the portion of the Ashburton Boad District named in the petition of Charles Reed and 39 others, addressed to his Honor the Superintendent, and forwarded by bis- Honor to this Council in message No. 8, for consideration, be severed from the Ashburton! Boad District, and constituted a new Road District under the title of the Upper Ashburton District.” The motion was agreed to. OHBISTOHUBOH GAB COMPANY. The Hon J. T. Peacock moved—“ That in the opinion of this Council it is desirable that effect should be. given to the arrangement entered into between the Ohristchuroh Gas: Company and the Provincial Government, whereby the Ohristchuroh Gas Company should be allowed to connect a branch line, subject to the direction of the Bailway Engineer, from their works with the railway, upon toe following terms:—lst. That the Gas Company shall psy all expenses at-, tendant on the construction of toe branch' line and siding, including the preparation of the usual deed by the Provincial Solicitor. 2nd. That the working of the siding shall be subject to such regulations as may nom time to time be adopted by the Government. 3rd. That the Government, upon giving six months’ notice in writing to the said Company, may close the said siding to the Christchurch Gas Company’s works without paying compensation, except for toe then value of the rails and sleepers put into the said siding.” The motion was agreed to. RESERVE!^, The Hoh J. T. Peacock moved—" That his Honor the Superintendent be respectfully requested to make the following reserves : 1898 (in red.) 1 Five acres Wittiate in the! Ashley district (Ashley road- district), having frontage of five chains to the road forming the north-eastern boundary of section 22123, and extending south-westerly ten chains in a rectangular block, north-west of and adjoining the aforesaid section; for a gravel pit.

1899 (in red), tiva acres, situate in the Aahley distriot (Ashley road district} . having five chains frontage to the road forming tiiel south-west boundary of Section No. 7983 i and extending south-westerly ten chains;in- a| rectangular blook. Theeasternmosteoroer on the above-desorihed land is situate five ohains| north-west of the angle, in the road opposite sectionlo,s49; for a gravel pit.” The motion was agreed to;' . NARROW GtUACtE LINES.

Mr Brown moved—" That a retdlm be laid on the table showing the names and nature of employment of all persons employed in working respectively the broad and harrow gauge lines of railways in the Province;” . The motion was agreed to. WHITB ROOK QUARRIES.

Mr Harper moved—" That a Select committee be appointed to consider the petition for a. branch railway to the White Book quarries, consisting of Messrs Higgins, Maskell, Bluett, Dixon, Potts, and toe mover, tq report on Wednesday, June 9.” : >•••.. ■ The motion was agreed to. EANQIOBA AND MALVERN. Mr Brown moved —" That hie Honor theSuperintendent be respectfully requested to place on the Supplementary Estimates the. sum of £2OOO as the one-fourth contribution, for toe extension of the Bangiora Eailway towards the Malvern district.” The motion was agreed to in'committee, reported to the House and adopted. akaboa. _ , Mr Westbnba moved —" That. his Honor, the Superintendent be requested to place On the Supplementary Estimstes a sum not exceed-; ing £3OO for a Hbspital Ward in the town of Akaroa.” • The House went into committee. The resolution was altered by the substitution of the words “ a casual” for the words “ a hospital.” ! The resolution, as amended, was reported, to the House and adopted.. ’ ; The Oounoil then adjourned, until 3 p.m. on Tuesday next. ;