PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Lyttelton Times, Volume XXVII, Issue 1889, 9 January 1867, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, Jan. 8. The Speaker took the Chair at twenty minutes past five o'clock. The following members were present Messrs. Aynsley, Barff, Beswick, Bright, B. Buchanan, H. Buchanan, Buckley, Cassius, Davis, Delamain, Duncan, Garrick, Gray, Hargreaves, Hawkes, Hoos, Hornbrook, Jollie, Knight, Moore, Montgomery, Moore, Ormsby, Potts, Rhodes, Sheath, Stericker, Stewart, Thomson, Waeckerle, Walker, Whall, White, J. S. Williams, Wynn Williams, Wilson and Wylde. HURUNUI ROUTE. Mr Maskbll rose, by permission of the House, to ask a question without notice. At a previous sitting, when the vote of £3OOO was passed for the improvement of the Hurunui route, the Secretary for Public Works had promised that the sum would be spent only on that portion of the road lying between the Waitohi and Otira Gorges, This had not been reported in the public journals, and many persons outside the House, who were interested in the matter were entirely in the dark as to the intentions of the Government, He would ask the Secretary for Public Works what was really intended, in order that the reply might be put. on record. Mr Beswick said the sum would be spent on the Hurunui riute proper. It would not betaken from that route and spent on any other. Mr Maskell said the reply given by the Secretary for Public Works differed very much from his (Mr Maskell's) recollection of the former statement, On that occasion, so far as he understood the matter, the Secretary for Public Works had expressly stated that the money would be spent on that portion of the road he had already mentioned. He felt it his duty to press for an explicit answer. Mr Beswick replied that the Government could hardly be expected to pledge itßelf in the matter. It might happen that a portion of the road lying on this side of the Waitohi Gorge required improvement, In that case, the Government would spend the money as it considered best for the interests of the public. financial position of the province. Mr Sheath moved, "That in the opinion of this Council, it is desirable that the Government should lay upon the table of this House an account, shewing the financial position of this province, together with the amount of overdraft at the bank on the 31st December, 1866." It \»as not necessary for him to enforce, by any remarks, the desirability of this return, and he would content himself with moving the resolution. Mr Stericker seconded the resolution.

Mr Stewart said the account asked for by the lun. member for Mount Cook was a very desirable one, but at present it would be absolutely impossible for the Government to produce it. The books could not be written up till an Appropriation Act was passed, and

any account which the Government could - bring down would be only approximate. The overdraft /it the bank could be stated at once." ■' ! Mr Sheath said he would be quite satisfled with an approximate account. If it was impossible to produce that he would be satisfled with a statement of the overdraft. Mr Garrick moved that the word "ap. proximate" be inserted before the word "account," in the original resolution. Hg believed this amendment would meet the wishes of the hon. member for Mount Cook, would satisfy the House, and would be coit venient to the Government. :Mr Sheath seconded the amendment. It would meet his views. On being put to the House, the amendment in the resolution was agreed to. Mr Wtlde said it was not usual to ask for approximate returns, nor was it expedient to do so. He believed the House would be satisfied with a statement of the overdraft at the Bank, and he would move, as an amendment, that the words "an account shewing the financial position of this province, together with," be struck out, and that the resolution stand as follows" That in the opinion of this Council it is desirable that the Government should lay on the table of this House, a return shewing the amount of the overdraft at the bank on the 31st December, 1866." The amendment having been seconded Mr. Gabrick said he, would oppose it. He could not understand the argument of the hon. member for Kaiapoi, which amounted to saying that because the House could not get

a complete return, it was better to have no return at all. Besides, the Provincial Secretary had offered to bring down an approximate statement. Mr Stewart said he had never offered to bring down an approximate statement. He had simply said that any statement which could be brought down would be approximate. With regard to the overdraft, he could duce that at any moment. He would be the last to opposethe production of any returns which it might be desirable for the House to have. The question was then put, that the words proposed to be omitted stand part of the resolution, and was negatived on the voices. On a division the numbers were—Ayes, 17; noes, 11. Mr Maskell moved that the word " approximate" standing before the word " account," should be inserted before the word " financial." Mr Garrick seconded the amendment. Mr Hakgiieaves opposed the amendment. It appeared to him absurd to expect such a statement at such a time. Mr Wtlde said he had proposed the amendment in order that the Council might be put in possession of the position of the Government, with regard to the bank overdraft. Any account beyond that would, as members had heard, be only approximate. Mr Garrick said it appeared to him that the hon. member for Kaiapoi was constantly endeavouring to throw dust in the eyes of the House. When any question was asked which the hon. gentleman thought might have the effect of embarrassing the Government, he always tried to throw hon. members off the scent. It was, surely, time enough to shield the Government when they cried out. Mr Stewart said he still objected to the return, on the ground that it would entail a large amount of clerical work, and would, after all, be incomplete. He would repeat that the Government was ready at all times 1 to afford information to the House. The resolution, as finally amended, was then put and declared carried on the voices. A division was called for, which resulted : as follows Ayes, 17; Noes, 11. hokitika corporation bill. The House went into committee for the further consideration of this bill. The various clauses, with the exception of 1 one or two which were postponed, were : passed witli some verbal amendments. ' The Chairman reported progress, with ! leave to sit again, and the House resumed. THE PUBLIC HOUSE BILL, 1867. Mr Duncan moved the re-committal of " The Public House Ordinance, 1866, Amendment Bill, 1367." The bill was recommitted, and the House | went into committee to consider certain ; alterations, which were effected. The bill, ' as amended, was reported to the House, which resumed. WESTLAND PUBLIC HOUSE BILL. The bill, on the motion of Mr Duncan, was recommitted, and certain alterations I made in several of the clauses. Progress was reported, and the House rei sumed. At this stage the House adjourned for 1 twenty minutes.

GEET BIVER COAL FIELD. Me Stewart moved the committal of the "Grey River Coal Field Reserve Bill, 1867." In doing so, Mr Stewart traced the history of the formation of the Grey River Coal Companv, showed what legislation had been attempted on the Bubject in the session of 1865, and pointed out why the bill then introduced was abandoned. The Government considered themselves bound by the promise of the Government of 1863, as stated in a memorandum of agreement made beteen that Government and the Grey River Coal Company. Mr Whaix inquired whether the GoTernment had entered into an agreement with any company for the lease of the reserve. Mr Stewart replied that the bill had been introduced because the Government considered themselves bound by the terms of the original memorandum of agreement. The Government had entered into no contract with any company. Mr Whall said he had been very anxious to obtain information on the subject, but had been unable to do so. In a case of so much importance it was desirable that the House should be placed in possession of all the information which it was possible to obtain. Mr Cassids moTed that the Bill be read that day six months. Mr Hoos seconded the amendment, ana suggested that the Commission to be appointed on Westland affairs, should be instructed to inquire into the subject of the Grey River Coal Reserve. Mr Buckley said that the delay in carrying out the original agreement was in no way attributable to the company which had been formed for working the coal measures. If hon. members would consult the Gazette, they would find that some difficulty had arisen about the reserve. It had been proclaimed no less than three times. The company had spent a considerable sum of money in surveys and plans, and he thought they had a claim on the Government. Mr Beswick pointed out that if the amendment were carried it would defeat the object of the mover. The proposed bill said nothing with regard to the rights of any particular company. Mr Barff said he regretted very much that his hon. colleagues appeared to_ have misapprehended the spirit and intention of the bill. He was satisfied with it, with the exception of an omission which he would endeavour to supply in committee. He had been over the reserve, and he was aware that gold in payable quantities had been found on it. Miners were at work there, and were not aware that they were digging on a Government reserve. While it was always desirable to recognise the claims of labour, the claims of capital ought also to be recognised. If the amendment proposed by his hon. friend (Mr Cassius) were carried it would have the effect of injuring the Grey District, and deferring the working of the coal measures. Mr Bright said he was most anxious to promote the working of the coal reserre, as well as to maintain the reputation of the province. If, however, it was proposed to give any company a monopoly, he would strongly oppose the bill. Mr Wilson opposed the amendment. He pointed out that by opposing the bill, the Westland members would be preventing the expenditure of a large amount of capital on the West Coast. There was no desire on the part of the company to secure a monopoly, or to enrich themselves at the public expense. He might be allowed to point out that the company had already spent about £4OO in getting plans and surveys made. Colonel White asked, whether there was a list of the shareholders of the company, and why the area of the reserve was so large ? Mr Jollie said he was not surprised to

_ wo fnr Westland objecting tc .i!' 0 faoSed to liim ttiat; ,tlie priTLvere too great- the GovernMr Wham to lay the original juent had J company on the table. ag rce ?| n "'w, Shams objected to the priaf 7>be Mil proposed to be^bfpughtin. cjple of the o j F q{ t i, e rese rve would The enormous {h )rovince i nto the hands pass away * ro ® . J ]ease( } the reserve. ¥of the province were involved. an S bargain had been entered into by a pt mw farthe House was in honour bound *" filn the spirit of the original; agreeto T Did the altered circumstances of the SSf CoSt warrant a departure; frorntlurt .! ? For his own part he would to effect ft compromise. He te !liious to keep faitli. with the compatiy, - ignore the fact that the cir„n C wore greatly altered. A more stringeiit bargain ought to be made with the C T£TGOMEnYsaid he thought his lion, . j tho iiieinbcr for Heathcote J. S. Khms), had stated the case very clearly, v Libt the public faith ought .to be kept, lie was nlso' of opinion that the House Sit to know exactly on what terms a lease that if the exact terms of . S Se laid before the House, the ?lu We would be abrogating aportion o Sfunctions. Tlie broad principle for: .the S Jse to consider was whether a large and H Se coalfield should be worked under Tal £ouditions; The bill simply proposed ifdve and the Executive. Ilwer to grant a lease; and he contended that 8S unusual to ask the Government to state Kiat terms they were prepared to grant ?hekase ; or to produce the lease itself, Mr Haskell tpok: : .meption to certain nrlra which had. been made by the l'ror'l 'i Sicitor. The " Public Reservea a? 1854 " under which the bill was brought f'ii rilaced the Ipower.of,the Provincial n 5 above the power of the Executive, Co ;«S&for.Mieving : Jjat in, Sosing the bill the House was trenching on «o rawer of the Executive. ■ ■■' ~ - Mr Dcscas explained. He had not said in opposing' the bill the .House would be iL Executive functions. In insisting SS lease should be produced, the House V Tlf£u ß ra°' Y e d an amendment to the effect that before the bill was brought m it . .iccirable that the terms of the lease to to any company should be laid on seconded the ampndnt Tn doing so he remarked that the H ut 'e had heard too much about ;Executive wtos. In his opinion it was the promce o? he Council to know exactly on what conditto a very valuable public estate was to consented to withdraw his amendment, on the condition that the amendment proposed by the hon. member lor Grey- ° „ t if At Whall) was allowed to pass. That amendment would effect' all that he desired. If the hill were passed "i, 1 * 8 haw^wy 1 Long ground of complaint. He would oppose the bill in any form, unless the Government gave an assurance that a general plan would be proposed for,the sale and lease of land on the West Coast. Mr Beswick pointed out the necessity for itf insisted on having the lease brought down there might as well be noExecutiveatail.;.... ,\- t •' . Mr Bright said he felt it his duty, in the present instance, to oppose the position assumed by the Government, He thought that in dealing with so valuable an estate, the Council should know the exact terms ot 1 Mr Bucklet believed that the bill; before the House was an exact copy of the bill Ot 1865, On behalf of the Grey River Coal Company he might say that they would be satisfied if, on the passing- of tlie bill, , they were allowed a preferential .claim, m the granting of a lease. The company had. been pat to considerable expense in procuring, plans and surveys, and it would become a question whether, in the event of their, not taking up the lease oil the terms proposal by the Government, they would be entitled to. compensation for this outlay. . : j Mr SieWabt. remarked that Mr Bright had accused him of attempting to bring ,in a public bill for a private purpose. • Mr Bright ; disclaimed having made, any such imputation. . '* . Mr Stkwaut accepted the explanation ot Mr Bright. He (Mr Stewart) should not deny that the company had a v.prior moral claim.. At the same time, he did not tiling that the stipulations arranged in 1863 would be carried 0ut,... It was not the intention ot the Government to grant the compauy 5,000 acres of land to the exclusion of diggers. If the powers sought by. tliQ Government passed into their hands, they would be used very sparingly and very . stringently. He hoped that the House would consider the very large interests of tlie company involved in this matter. Mr. J. S. Williams thought that the work of making a bargain for. the lease was a matter of Executive function. . He thought that the only duty of the House was to consider the terms of the lease; the House was the most unfit body to make the. necessary bargain. He considered that it would be a matter of regret if 6uch a source of mineral wealth should remain unworked. '■ Mr. Hatkes read the report, of the. Committee oii the Grey River Coal Fields.;. The

condition of requiring that so large a sura as that mentioned iii the report should be raised, was in his opiniou to serious a one.. : ine: other recommendations" of: the : Committee might be very fairly, carried out. He should regret to see so large and so valuable a tract, of land pass into the hands of the Superintendent and his Executive to lease it to whom and how they pleased, without some cheek upon them on the part of the House. .. . After a few words of explanation from Mr 1 Jollie, Mr Walker.expressed his .intention ,of. supporting the amendment of Mr Whall. , The third amendment was put and carried on the voices. . ...Y-.-- ,■ A division took place, with the annexed result: ayes,2l; noes, 13. GREAT SOOTUEKX RAILWAY. ... • Major Horsbrook moved "that in the opinion of the Council, an enquiry should be made before the House,' as to the manner in "which the Contractors for the Great Southern

Kailway are carry ing out their contnict. He remarked that the documents laid upon •■the table were the most extraordinary ones ever produced. The .contractors appeared to have carried on their work in the slovenly and unworkmanlike manner—in 'fact tltey had " scamped " their work. On the other band, Mr .Doyne had done all in his power to compel the contractors to do the work properly. ■ To use Mr Holmes's expression, he was always ''nagging" the contractors./, Biit .he had not bc-cn backed up by the Government, lie (Major Ilornhrobk) believed that the contractors had been allowed to run riot without any check. He :thouglit it high time that fonie inquiry should be made as to.the condition of the Great. Southern Railway, or else this great public work would run the risk o! during the fatG of tlic Lytteltoh sea-wall, [Major Ilornbrook read some extracts frorr the correspondence in confirmation of .. hi' assertions.] Mr Doyne had been well pan for his work, hut lie deserved credit for liav % endeaYouredlo do his duty. The contra® tors had been putting into .the work a quanta, °> condemned materials'::■ He supposed tna its the Government had taken 110 steps remedy the evils complained of, they tacit! approved of th™. The present Governmec w -i6 not- to blame in the matter because the had not been in office all the time that tl abuses had been going on. . ..' ;....■ . Mr Wtnn Wii.lums lioped that the inotic would be carried. ■• It was evident that tl w ork iiad been improperly executed. Tl railway had been opened and, lie presume paid for. 'fhe inquiry would satisfy etei one. it was patent-that; the contractors h

' scamped" their work, and as MrDoyne was mid an almost fabulous. sum for supervising he work, it was just that the contracors should be compelled toi;carry it;but niv. compliance with" 5 his - instructions; 1 le (Mr Williams) hoped that the inquiry vould be made before the whole House. . Mr Beswioic stated that the fault did not •est with , the present Government, who were ibt responsible for the acts of their predeeos-. lors. , He. might state that the Government me resolved that the.work,Bhould.b'e carried jut' :i'jV, ; com Pli an ce witli the contract..;. The jovernment must obviously protect; their: mgineer. . „ Mr Montgomery hoped that Major Hornurook' would .■withdraw his motion, as #n issurance had been given by the Government hit the work should be properly carried out. : Mr Thomson hoped that the Government svould see that the work already done should be put in order. . , ■Major HoßNiinooit consented to withdrawhi. rao tion on condition that the whole line. SS inspected, and ;that the contract should be strictly carried out. .. If no such nledce was given lie should press lus resolution. Those who supported him would staud. before the country as the guardians of the | public, purse, , whilst those who opposed it would be regarded as the, advocates of reckless extravagance. . The motion was. put and carried on ttie voices. 1 ' .APOLOGY';' Mr Bright desired to apologise to Mr Stewart for some injudicious expressions with reKara to liim ) wliich lie (Jlr Bright) had incautiously used in the heat of debate. Mr Stewart said that he frankly accepted the apology of the lion. member. PRE-EMPTIVE RIGHTS. The House went into committee to consider the resolutions on Pre-emptive Rights. Mr Stewart remarked that the subjec» 01 pre-emptive: rights had been occupying the public attention, and had acted prejudicially in retarding the sale of land and the" settlement of the country/ A select committee had reported their views on the subject, and those news were embodied in the-resolutions now. before the : House. ? He did not expect that the resolutions would, satisfy every one, but they would at least .have the effect of causing-same amendment to be made m the present, system. ... , The first resolution having been read, - . Mr. Buckley wished to see : pre-emptive rights; Strictly ■ limited to an area round the homestead. This was not provided for by the present resolutions, Mr Sheath moved that the resolutions should be discussed as a whole. : The motion was lost, and the resolutions were discussed seriatim. Mr Buckley objected to some expressions in tlie fiHt resolutiou which seemed to imply a censure upon the Waste Lands.Board. . Mr Wa£ker took . the:' same view: of: the case; as the Waste Lands Board had done so much for tlie advancement of the, province,, it was; not fair to cast any reflection upon

: Mr Stewart denied any intention of past: w a stigma upon the Waste Lands Board If hon .members'considered that the words in question did so, he was'willing to with3raw them. ~... ..• •• ■■ Mr Sheath thought that as the subject was iuch an important one, and so few members were present, it would be better to. adjourn the debate. - - The suggestion was rejected by the tomW The'first resolution was putv and carried as followsThat'in the opinion of this Council ;he system at present' in force with reference to the granting of improvement pre-emptive rights is calculated to hinder the sale of; land md the consequent settlement of thexountry, ihd is at Variance with the spirit of the Waste Land Regulations, and that it is desirab e that legislative enactment should be sought to alter the regulations in that behalf. The second resolution having been read;, Mr Wynn Williams moved that the latter part should be struck out, , with a view of introducing' some Mr Wylde seconded the motion. ■ He considered that, pre-emptive were the mrse of the province, and he hoped, that . tliey. would be altogether abolished. •Mr J.'S. 'Williams hardly knew what the .effect of the amendment would be. It lVas not yet before the Council. He would mggest that the Iflrst part of the second resolution should stand; as a resolution in :Mr Wynn Williams said --he' proposed that this should be.done. He had in amendment on the second part of the •esolution to propose. Mr Stewart said the Government had no )biection to this. . Mr J. S. Williams then proposed , .that, the words " for fencing" in the first line ihould be struck out; While considering that the runholder had done much good to the arovince, he was of opinion that the system if.'granting pre-emptive rights for fencing.had lone much to retard the settlement of the country. "'i-■ Mr Rhodes seconded the amendment. Mr Kmght opposed the amendment of the bon. member for Ileathcote. It was to the advantage of the province; that;, the runholder should; be; encouraged to make as many; improvements as possible. Mr Hargreaves would .rather, support the resolution mit stood. He opposed the division of the resolution, and he amendment of the hon. member for Ileathcote The effect of this amendment would be to strike out the third resolution. He was opposed to granting fencing, pre-emptive rights, but he thought there were improvements for. which thi y ought to be granted Mr Ayssley intended to move an amendment on the whole resolution. : Mr. MiskELL said he had' ; an. amendment to propose, but lie would suggest that the further consideration of the respl ution ought

to be postponed. ~ He desired fairnessto all parties concerned, and for that reason it was that he was prepared to move tlieameni)mC jlr. Wylbe thought it was not desirable to defer the consideration of the subject. It had been discussed; so long that every one ought to have made up his:mind on it. ; Mr. Hawkes could .not see the necessity of. dividing the resolution into two parts, He had another amendment' to,propose, which he believed ffould be acceptable to the House. Mr Wysx Williams pointed out that the amendment which the lion, gentleman had lust read,'would defeat its own object. The proposition made by him (Mr. Williams) was simply for the purpose of making the resolu- ■ tion intelligible. .v. ■■■'■':> ■■■ ■■ Mr Stkwaut denied that the resolution as : it stood was unintelligible. lie had no obiec--1 tion to the division of the resolution. 1 ; Mr. I iaSvjces sitid he. Vfoiild- insist on his

amendment. , i ' : Mr Shuatii intimated his intention of mot- ; ing an amendment. wlicn the. proper time ... ■ The Chairman' then put the fir|t amendr.i ment, that the resolution' be divided into two pirts The amendment was carried, and the bccond resolution stood as follows: J.uat > this Council'considers 'that , tlie granting ot improvement pre-emptive rights for fencing j should it once cease." ' . 1 Mr T. S. Williams moved that the words " for Jeoeing," in tlie'above resolution should be struck out. . -.;■■■ ■■- Mr Wyi.de seconded the amendment. , : The amendment was put and declared to be : carried on the voices. .■ : A division was called for, wlucli resulted as ■. For the amendmeut, 16 i against the amend--1 Mr Masicell, in consequence of the result i of the division, begged permission to withdraw. I his amendment. lie had not been able, in consequence of. having moved it, to vote on the I Williams moved that the follow;- ;> ing words stand as the third resolution. 0 'Any runholder ■ vho shall have , ere y fences on Crown lands may. .remote sue i ' fences on anv portion of such lands pi • . y chased, provided he remove the same wittun | !0 two months after receiving notice in writing from the Waste Lands Board that such land , •n has been purchased." ... ■ le I; The resolution, as moved, was carried. . ie X The third in the printed resolutions, wnjen i, stood as follows, was struck out:- ~. "That pre-emptive rights may he granted

for improvements suolr as outstations. on runs, sheep-dips, yards, washpools, and any improvementsother tban fencing deemed be, in'the opinion of the Waste Lands Board, absolutely necessary for the proper working oftherun.'V :> ■ i: 1 V Mr Stewart moved that the fourth resolution stand as follows "That on any homestead or improvement pre-emptive right being challenged, .the holder, on not buying the.whole .of. the land challenged, should lose his right of pre-emp-tion over the remainder so challenged." ; : .i Mr Hawkes moved that the words " remainder 60 challenged," in the above ;• resolulution be struck out, and th# words " the whole/' inserted. Mr Knight moved, as a further amendment, that the clause stand; thus;," That on any pre-emptiVe right,being challenged, the holder should either: buy : the whole of the land challenged, or lose his right of preemption over it. . , ..The amendment moved by. Mr. Kmgat was put/, and carried ,on a division: ayes, 24; 13068' SiMr. Steavart moved that the fifth resolution should read as Mows:—-'That all pre-emptive'rights at present in force, and which may hereafter be granted shall cease and determine on the Ist May, 1870. ; ■ ■ Mr. Wilde . proposed as, an r mendment, that the resolution. ..should read— That all pre-emptive rights hereafter granted' should cease and determine on the Ist of May, 1870. On tlie suggestion oi; Mr. Walker, the amendmentwaawitlidrawn.. ~ The resolution as proposed, was ultimately 'itrSTEWART ;tlieh: .moved the'lvflftii resolution stand, thus :-"That m the event of ■ the . improvement in respect of which a pre-emptive righthas : been or may be hereafter granted becoming of less value than £SO, it shall be the duty of the Waste Lands Board, upon proof of such reduction in value, to give notice of such circumstance to the holder, and if within bne. month of such notice the improvement be not increased to the value o£ £SO, to declare the pre-emptive right void." . ; Mr Montgomery moved as an amendment, that the words " if within one month of such notice the improvement be, not . increased tc the value of £SO" be struck out. , :' The amendment was eventually withdrawn, and the resolution declared carried., The following were passed without amendThat no cultivation of pre-emptive rightf

other than is necessary for the working of the run should be.permitted, 7 ; That the' form in which pre-emptive rights may be taken up should be in entire accordance with the regulations as to . the form in which purchases may be made. . . . 8 That his Honor the Superintendent be requested to take such steps as may be necessary, to give effect to the foregoing resolutions. LEAVE OP ABSEKCE. ... Leave of absence was granted to Mr Maude for the remainder of the session. ... road boards. .;. ._ > _ ' Mr Beswick obtained leave to bring,in £ bill entitled"The Koads Ordinance Amendment Ordinance Bill, 1867.' _ ■ TUb bill was read fl. first time and ordsrcc to be printed. ~. . , , ■ Notices of motion were given, and tn 1 House adjourned : at 2 a.m. till 5 p.m. thi : day. v '