GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume IV, Issue 198, 23 September 1854, Page 5

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. (Continued from our last.) Mr. Wakefield was proceeding to address the house, when Dr. Monro rose and nbjected to any discussion taking place. They had not both sides of the question before them; he did not wish to hinder any member from speaking, if only to clear his own character, but he thought that was the only discussion which ought to take place. Mr. Wakefietjd said that, according to strict order, he could only speak by indulgence of the house, but that he would ask leave to go on. Mr. Fitz Gerald. Certainly go on. Dr. Monro again objected on the ground of impropriety—the danger of bringing the Governor into collision with the house. Hon. members had now both sides of the question before them, and could weigh the evidence in their own minds.

Mr. Wakefield regretted that the house had entered that night on the subject of his Excellency's message. He understood that a copy of the address had been taken to a private meeting, where it was made use of by the friends of the ministry, but that the bulk of the members had not had an opportunity of studying it. It was perfectly monstrous that such a course should have been taken for the purpose of founding a debate upon it. (Hear, hear, no, no.) He himself had not attended the house for some time past, for the purpose of avoiding irritating discussion. His hon. friend had called the Governor by his name—Ool. Wynyard. This was the first time that his Excellency's name had been used with forgetfulness of that propriety which was customary to the house. His hon. friend had objected to the message—with what reason he could not see—" because the Attorney-Gene-ral had nothing whatever to do with the preparation of it." The Attorney- General had nothing to do with its preparation, and he (Mr. Wakefield) would not be held responsible for any past, present, or future opinion of that gentleman. (Mr. Fitz Gerald—will the hon. member allow me to ask a question ? Mr. Wakefield- I must goon.) His hon. friend stated that he never saw such an opposition as had been going on in that house. What sort of opposition did he mean ? The opposition of one to two? So small an opposition? (Mr. Fitz Gerald —so unfair.) Oh! it was unfair; why it appeared to him that the Ministry always had a large majority. A fairer opposition had never been seen in any popular assembly. Was this at all like that in the house of Commons, where a banded opposition was always trying to get the ministry out, in order to take their places (hear). Who was going to take their places ? He had had the opportunity, but under no consideration would he ever take a seat on that bench. He had been offered a seat, but did not take it (hear, and laughter.) Mr. Fitz Gerald had said that if the Governor had been guided by him, he would have made him the greatest Governor in all the British empire (loud and prolonged cheering). Why, it was not easy to perceive how he could have made him Governor at all, seeing that he was only the Officer administering the Government, from the accident of being the senior Military Officer in the colony when the Governor left. Why he was no Governor at all; he was only the Officer administering the Government. This indicated so large a belief in his (Mr. F.s) own ability, so much self-sufficiency (no, no,) that he was not surprised at his hon. friend not having retained confidence in his Excellency's mind. The reason of the fall of the ministry was their own rashness and presumption. The overturn of the Government coach was owing to the rashness and presumption of those who drove (no, no). He had foreseen this and would not drive. But the part of his hon. friend's speech which was most seriuus was that in which he declared that there had been nothing sudden in their manner of bringing the question under his Excellency's notice. The hon. member had stated that he had suddenly discovered serious financial embarrassments. In this there was a mauifest contradiction to what he had stated elsewhere. (Mr. Fitz Gerald — " I said nothing of that kind.") He (Mr. W.) had taken down the words (Mr. Fitz Gerald— " read them.") The word suddenly was not used, but the discovery was on the same day. This suddenness related to a most important subject, —the probable bankruptcy of the Colony. (Mr. Fitz Gerald — "■ nothing of the kind.") His hon.

friend bad made a point of his cry of hear, hear, [to a point in Mr. Fitz Gerald 's speech]. He had no such meaning as Was attributed to him. What he meant to express was that his hon. friend wished to obtain all the seats in the Executive for his party. (Mr. Fitz Gerald— perfectly untrue). This was merely a question of opinion ; it was a most legitimate object; he would do so himself. He would not have sat on that bench until it was accomplished. But he had told them when they took office that they would repent their bargain, because they did not speak the right thing at the right time. (Hear, bear. " Oh, oh," from Mr. Sewell.) They were perfectly ignorant of what they were about; their arrangements had been insufficient, aiid in their eagerness to obtain office, they had grasped their bane. They had upset the coach. He had been offered a place inside the coach, but would not take it; he distrusted the cattle that worked it, the coachman that drove it, and the guard. He had taken a place outside, where he could jump off when he pleased (loud laughter) ; the rest of the house got into the omnibus, and he (Mr. Wakefield) was the cad.. The Ministry had been crowding sail without a lookout. There were letters now on their way to England in which the inevitable break down had been predicted. His hon. friend had said that he would treat the message as a Queen's speech was treated in England. But what right had he to do so? The Governor of New Zealand was responsible to nobody; he was absolved from taking advice from anybody, unless he chose to do so. That was the reason why he had offered advice to his Excellency. Had there been advisers to his Excellency, he would have been guilty of a court intrigue. The Governor had no such advisers: any document emanating from the Governor now must be considered as his own, although he might be acting under the advice of some other person. He (Mr. Wakefield) declared to the house, that whatever responsibility any one might have to bear for sending that message to the house, he held himself now and hereafter responsible. He had heard from the hon. member that he (Mr. Fitz Gerald) had recommended his Excellency to send for the hon. member for the Northern Division, aud to make him prime minister. (Mr. Fitz Gerald rose to order.) The hon. member had said that this was not the address of his Excellency. He (Mr. AVakefield) could assure the house that no member of the executive had either art or part in it. He was now making a statement far more important than the character of any member in that house (oh, oh). His hon friend had said, that his (Mr. Wakefield's) advice was unconstitutional. Why so ? there was nothing in the Constitution Act against it. (An hon. member: There is nothing for it). What of that? By the Constitution Act there was no responsible Government. But when the parliament met, the house preached the doctrine. They voted right—• twenty-nine to one—they asserted the principle by proceedings which could not but command respect, because of their deliberation and decorum, and which presented a most unfavourable contrast to the present proceedings of the house. (Hear, hear, and cries of No.) There had been great rejoicings about the arrangements made by the Officer Administering the Government; he would mention the dinner given not long after by the Northern to the Southern members, at which the Colonial Treasurer had made such a humorous speech in favour of Ministerial Kesponsibility, ending with the cry of " Go it Bobby." His Excellency had said that he would do all he could, and the bon. member for Lyttelton had obtained what satisfied him. But all of a sudden, the ministers and their friends had become dissatisfied, and demanded something more. The house was willing at the time of the new arrangements to accept the smallest modicum of Responsible Government. But they had in fact obtained a very considerable quantity. And why had they not it now ? It was because his hon. friends had asked for all the seats in the Executive Council (no, no). That would be the verdict of the country (no, no). He was satisfied his explanation was the true one -, (no, no), and that the country would adopt it. (No, no). And when his Excelleacy sent a Message to the house to explain the state of the question, the hon member, (Mr. Fitz Gerald) termed it "a most unconstitutional proceeding." His hon. friend had said that his advice to the Governor was unconstitutional. No other resource was open to the Governor. There was precedent far it, in the case of Lord Metcalfe in Canada. No one bed found

any fault there. [Here the hon. member entered into a detailed statement of the circumstances.] The whole ministry, consisting of 11 persons, had resigned, with the exception of one who was sick ; for three weeks the Governor was unrepresented in the house, and adopted the expedient of communicating with the house by message. That was his only means of communication. The case was the same at the present moment. (Hear, hear, and no, no.) As to thejfacts contained in the message, they must come from his Excellency himself; any one else might make a mistake, and his Excellency must be answerable. The hon. member for Lyttelton had spoken in detraction of the personal honour of Colonel Wynyard ; (loud cries of No.) he used his name; he accused him of falsehood [great uproar, no ; Mr. Fitz Gerald—■ no, no, no, it was you whom I accused. Mr. Sewell—lt is you.] Mr. Wake field—he has accused me, (Yes); but supposing that I wrote the message, how did I learn the statements? Who gave me the facts? [Mr. Carleton—Did any one?] I could get them from no one else than his Excellency. Had he been asked to assist the old members of the Executive in framing a message, he should have declined. During the last two days he had been alone with his Excellency; he would not give advice in presence of his irresponsible advisers. He would not take office as minister; (hear, hear, hear) he was not obliged to do so; he was there as simple member for the Hutt. [Mr. Ludlam —if there is a dissolution, you will not be here again in that capacity.] Well, then, he would be there for somewhere else. He had told his Excellency that no one would take office, while the friends of the minister were banded together for the purpose of forcing themselves into power. (No, no.) The hon. and learned member for Christchurch had proposed a resolution in favour of explanations" by word of mouth ; but he (Mr. Wakefield) would not be such a fool as to deliver such explanations orally. He might make mistakes in details, or his words might be ill reported. The Governor had no other means than by message for making known his views, and the hon. member's resolution would silence his Excellency, and cause him to be condemned before the public should be in possession of the fact. But his Excellency's written statement, through the medium of the public press, would travel far and wide. This was the Irish fashion, first to condemn and then to consider. All these violent and unseemly proceedings would merely tend to the gratification of such spirits as the hon. member for the Wai rarapa, by raisin g con ten tion, and taki n g away all chance of accommodation. The alliance of the tninistrj with such politicians was most damaging to them. But all their proceedings tended to the gratification of those Avho sought to set aside the General Assembly, and to convert the provinces into six little republics. He had come to the house with a very sincere hope that they would have suffered the message to be printed without debate, that all might have formed a quiet opinion of it, to debate upon it on Tuesday evening. He hoped that the debate might cease, that there might be no more discussion. (Yes, yes. No, no.) The debate would have a tendency to increase the difference between the ministry and his Excellency into a difference between his Excellency and the house.]

Several members now called out, Divide. Question put, whether the house do divide upon the question whether the house do go to division or not.

Ayes, 14—Messrs. E. J. Wakefield, Lee, Porter, Forsaith, O'Neill, O'Brien, E.G. WakeOeld, Mack ay, T ravers, Greenwood, Macandrew, Bacot, Cargill, Merrhnau, (teller). Noes, 20—Messrs. Cutten, Featherstone, Moorhouse, Brown, Weld, Ciiileton, Sewell, Wortley, Rhodes, Picard, Gray, Rsvan«, Taylor, Monro, Hart, Ludlam, Crompton, Gled'hill, Kelham, King, (teller). Mr. Tit aye as then moved that the house do now adjourn.

To this motion four or five seconders rose, one of them being—•

Mr. Sewkll, in order that he miirht speak to the question of adjournment. He appealed to the good feeling of the house, he appealed to them as Englishmen, .against the miserable subterfuges that had been resorted to that niirht, for the purpose of hindering him from rebutting the charges which had been raised. lie lion, member for Waimeabad moved an adjournment —wis it right and Jetting that a paper ';>iiiiitiri<r grave errors,, raising a question wi^tlu-.- the

ministry bad done their duty, should go forth j to the world without the contradiction being placed on record ? Was it consistent with the j usages of Englishmen (Divide) ? After the House had listened to such a speech as that of the lion, member for the Hutt, was he to be debarred from meeting it ? It was for the House to decide whether the statements contained in the speech of the lion, member for the Hutt, should go forth to the world without explanation from those who had been attacked (Question). What he wished was to place on record a written statement — The lion, member being interrupted by loud cries of Divide, the Speaker put the question, Whether the House do now divide upon the question of adjournment. I Ayes, 13. Noes, 21. .-, The names as in the former division, with the exception of Mr. Merriman, who had passed over. • ■ • . : . ..V \ . ' . Mr. Sewell, amid great confusion, again endeavoured to obtain a hearing. An adjournment had been called for, the Speaker took the sense of the House upon the question. Ayes, 10; Messrs. Travers, E.G. Wakefield, Mackay, Forsaith, E. J. Wakefield, G'Neil, Lee, Macandrew, Cargill, Greenwood (teller). Noes, 20; Kelham, Feqtherston, King, Gledhill, Cutten, Moorhouse, Weld, Picard, Crompton, Ludlam, Brown, Carleton, Hart, Fitz Gerald, Sewell, Gray, Rhodes, Revans, Taylor, Wortley (teller). This vote was, in effect, that Mr. Sewell should be heard, Mr. Sewell.—Neither himself nor his colleagues had asked the house to decide to-night. They felt the necessity for consideration, but the message of the hon. member for the Hutt affected their character; it cast grave reflection on them, and it was fitting that no time should be lost. The object of himself and his colleagues was vindication only. The hon. member who moved the adjournment had admitted that the message contained grave errors, but notwithstanding this admission, was now attempting to stifle the voice of the accused. (No, no, hear, hear,) [Mr. Forsaith rose to order.] [The Speaker said that he had before decided that the hon. member could speak.] Mr. Sewell. These miserable evasions were not fitting the occasion. He wished the hon member for the Hutt hacl confined his speech to the charges which he (Mr. WV) had made against them in the Governor's message; but in violation of the very principle which he had been urging on the house, he had travelled away into other facts, and new imputations. The speech of the hon. member embraced these various points (Here Mr. Sewell read notes of Mr. Wakefield's speech). The hon. member had even attacked their motives, —he asked the house to bear that in mind. He had listened with a degree of pain that he could scarce express ; he thought that the hou. member was to pour oil on the troubled waters : but if there was one thing more than another which presented an insuperable obstacle to accommodation, it was the message backed by the hon. member's speech. Should the consequences be disastrous, the blood would be upon his head. (Loud cheers.) The hon. member, holding the olive branch in his hand, had thrown down the sword between them. (Hear, hear.) After listening to that scarifying speech it was scarcely possible for fhuman nature to consider the question calmly. He thought it desirable to adjourn the debate. But the message ought not to be printed without its answer. The hon. member wished to send forth a one sided argument, as if it embraced the whole. The hon. member wished to take advantage of the weapon In knew so well how to use; the message by means of the press would go far and wide. He had therefore prepared a written statement. [Mr. Wukefiekl rose to order, —no written speech could be permitted.] (Cries of shame.) Why, the hon. member for the Hutt wrote every speech he made. He would not go to 5 the written statement yet, but to the origin of all. The hon. member was father to Ministerial Responsibility in New Zealand ; but what he now said amounted to this;" lam perfectly satisfied ; Responsible Government is conceded; I am only afraid that his Excellency b;is conceded too much." He appealed to the hou. member for the Hutt whether this very scheme, now objected to, had not been approved by himself. (Mr. Wakefield, ""no.") He soi ietnniydeclared that it had been so. They had ' bi/en once friends, and he regretted they now

were travelling different roads. He called updn^l an lion, member who was present to affirm the fact (hear, hear.) Had he (Air. Se.well) not told those lion, gentlemen who were afterwards his colleagues that he would not join the ministry? (Hear, from Mr. Weld). But for the hon. member for the Hutt the arrangement would never have been made. Did he remember the A. B. paper ? (Loud cheers from both sides of the house). There was a passage iv his Excellency's speech, which denied the existence of a formidable opposition. Did his Excellency never hear of it? That they came down to the house night after night harassed with the attacks of the hon. member, and with the impediments thrown in their way of business? Did the hon. member remember the Waste Lands' bill ? [Mr. E. J. Wakefield would speak on a point of order, the Speaker ruled that the hon. member [Mr. Sewell"] was in order.] Although they did carry a majority on that question, no one was so much at that as the hon. member himself, who was willing to take office. (Hear, hear). There had been hardly a day on which the hon. member had not twitted the ministry with the anomaly of their position ; but Responsible Government had not broken down (cheers); it would triumph at last, though it might have to go through a time of trial. The hon. member had told them that his Excellency had no advisers, and he had taken compassion on him; but suppose he had taken another course, and told his Excellency that he would be no party to a sham—that his own political character was at stake. His Excellency would, he believed, have taken the advice. But his hon. friend was rot to be the advocate of a patchwork Government. Why, the hon. member for the Hutt was now a follower of the hon. member for the Northern Division. He had sneered at him once, but was now a disciple of the mixed school. The hon. member had spoken of the rashness and impetuosity of the gentleman at the head of the late Government. He, (Mr. Sewell) had not been able to perceive it. He had often differed from the hon. member for Lyttelton—he had not the same high opinion of him once ; but he felt sure there was no one to whom the Government could so safely be entrusted. (Loud cheers.) Motives were imputed to them—they were charged with seeking office. As to himself, he would state candidly—(Mr. Wakefield, " Take care.") Mr. Sewell—Do not fear : I shallsay nothing about, you; it merely affects myself. He would state that he had only accepted office !provisionally. He was under great and pressing necessity to return to England ; he had only been placed accidentally in these relations with the colony j yet these charges—that they wanted to get situations—these base insinuations were made against them. They had established Responsible Government. (Mr. Wakefield—no.) What no ? [Mr. Wakefield—you have lost it.—Mr. Fitz Gerald—By whom ?] They had established it until the hon. member for the Hutt introduced his innovations, and came to that house as an irresponsible adviser to his Excellency. He hoped that the house would insist upon the hon. member taking his proper position—that advice should only be given under sanction of an oath, in oider that impeachment might follow upon bad advice. He had prepared a carefully considered statement for the house, which, with permission, he Would read [no, and go on.] The hon. member was finally permitted to read as follows :— Sir, I think it desirable, under present circumstances, that each one of us should give his own explanations. I have carefully considered mine, because I think that the importance of the occasion requires more than usual exactness of statements, and because I desire that what I say may not even in a single word be misinterpreted or misunderstood. I joined the Govern - ment at the commencement of thejsession, at the request of my honourable friend the mem- v ber for Lyttalton. I was no party to the fy-st negotiations which led to the formation of ithejj. Government, nor am I cognizant of what took place before I accepted a seat in the Executive Council, except so far as I have learnt the facts from my honourable friend, upon whose word I can place the most implicit reliance. 1 believed when I joined the Government that the old officers—the Attorney-General, the Colonial Secretary, and Colonial Treasurer—were prepared to resign office so soon as the public service required it upon receiving adequate pensions. The very stipulation about pensions in itself implied as much. 1 admit that the matter^was left vaguely, and I think necessarily so,

considering that the whole arrangement then made was provisional, and intended as a mere transition state; I think my honourable friend the member for Lyttelton at first shared in the opinion I have stated. He and lat first believed that not only were those gentlemen prepared to resign office without delay, subject to the conditions about pensions, but that the AttorneyGeneral was further prepared to re-accept office under the same tenure of responsibility as ourselves. I may add that the prospect of such an arrangement was an inducement to me to take part in {the Government, believing, as I did, that the Government would be strengthened by his accession, and that his ability and experience would supply our own defects. I was disappointed at finding that, we laboured under a mistake as to the Attorney-General's intentions; I may add that no reasonable opportunity has been lost of inducing him to join us, and to take pavt in the Government as one of responsible administration. Our efforts have, however failed—and he has throughout studiously maintained his position as a permanent officer of'the Crown, holding his place as he alleges not subject to displacement by voluntary retirement, and in no.way a partaker in our responsibilities, or, I may add, in our labours. Admitting that I was thus speedily undeceived as to the Attorney-G.eTierars intention about taking office With \\%A must nevertheless add that I still contifiVfeu-'under the firm belief that both he and the other official members of Government would be prepared to resign office so soon as the public service required it, on being secured their pensions. The time when that change was to take place was left unsettled. It was deemed possible that tbe public service might require the continuance of one or more even after the session should terminate for the mere purpose of office work ; but throughout the whole of our discussions oh this point two only conditions were presented to my mind for determining that question of timel —namely, security for retiring pensions and the interests of the public service. One thing, however, had been clearly present to my mind throughout, namely, that before the end of the session at all events a permanent Government would be formed or at least arranged, that such Government would be fixed on a basis of complete responsibility, and that the tenure.of the holders of office would be changed. It will be remembered that from the beginning we all' stated that we held office provisionally until such a permanent Government should be formed. That understanding was accepted by the house as an apology for the uncertain tenure of my honourable friend the member for Lyttelton and of myself. Sir, when I tendered my resignation, in my opinion the time had come for determining that question. I think so because tlie house was about to be called on to give its assent to very important measures conferring very large powers on the Executive Government—(l refer in particular to the Waste Lands' Bill) —measures which the house has been induced to pass mainly in reliance on the responsible character of the Government by whom the powers conferred should be administered—and because, farther, tbe house was about to be called on to pass out of its hands the staff of power by voting supplies. Before it was called on to surrender such important advantages, I think the house ought to have understood, and would have required to understand, clearly what the future constitution of the Government was to be, and whether it was to be one in which they might safely repose confidence. It is possible that at the commencement of the session the house might have been disposed to judge somewhat differently in this matter from what it will do now. During the business of the session new matter has been disclosed. In addition to those irregularities of government committed by Sir George Grey, which were patent from the first, we have found that in other respects important provisions have been disregarded materially involving the interests of the colony. The land fund has been '■; dealt with in a manner not warranted by tbe Constitution Act. Public money has been spent without legal sanction. The public finances are in confusion. Large claims are said to be outstanding, and demands are made in respect of them. I instance in particular upwards of £60,000 claimed for the cost of the Pensioner Villages. There is even a difficulty •in ascertaining the extent of these claims. In particular we cannot ascertain the extent of the charges on the territorial revenue in the shape of outstanding land scrip. I am sure that. I speak the sentiments of the house ia declaring

my opinion that the time has come when a check b£ Placed on this mode of administering pubhc^affairs through a real and effective Responsible Government. I am sure that for some time past the house has- been itself on the point of demanding- distinct guarantees to that ettect. It has, I believe, foreborne to do so only out of forbearance to ourselves, and from a desire not to embarrass us. But that forbearance would not, I am sure, have been carried further. Sir, I have entered thus fully into the antecedents of the question now brought before the house by his Excellency's message, because I think it necessary to state the conditions under which I believe that I held office, and the circumstances under which I.was called on to advise his Excellency in common with my colleagues to resort at once to the application of the principle of Responsible Government, upon the rejection of which I have tendered my resignation. I have felt my duty to do'so,-in order to clear me from those imputations which that message undoubtedly conveys—imputations of having entered into specific arrangements to hold my seat in the Government without disturbing the present holders of office until the approval of the Crown has been notified from England of the contemplated changes—a charge that I have broken faith with his Excellency by my resignation. Had I been guilty of so grave a political misdemeanour I should be undeserving of the confidence of the house or country. It is extremely painful to be thus placed apparently at issue with his Excellency himself upon a matter of fact. lam convinced that his Excellency would truly represent to the house his own sincere belief and conviction as to the true state of the question. I deeply regret that the statements made in his name and on his behalf by the message now presented to the house under the advice of the hon. member for the Hutt, should neeessifate such a defence. The house itself will judge upon the facts now before it. For my own part I solemnly declare that I never at any time contemplated any such arrangement as that stated in the message—on the contrary, I firmly believed from the beginning and throughout that the three gentlemen now holding- the pfincipalofEces of Government would resign their offices so soon as the public service required it, on being secured retiring pensions—and I solemnly declare that 1 never understood that the completion of such resignation would be made dependent on such a condition as approval from England. In perfect reliance in such'being the fact as regards j myself and my colleagues, I stated from the first that the arrangement was provisional only, for the conduct of business during the session, and that it was clearly intended that before the end of the session a new and permanent Government would be formed upon the full principle of responsibility, the principal offices of Government being filled by responsible ministers. I state the facts as I believed and understood them. I abstain . f-om making countercharges. There may have been misunderstanding, and beyond what I have already said, I will not, except in self defence, examine farther where the blame of the misunderstanding lies. But the fact is patent and beyond dispute that it is impossible for matters to continue as before —and I must he permitted to claim for myself the right which I have exercised, of retiring from a position which I feel to be a false one, and which I can no longer hold with credit to myself or advantage to the colony. I have but one thing- more to add to clear myself from haying resigned abruptly. At that meeting of the' Executive Council to which reference was made on Tuesday last, the subject of our official Memorandum was discussed. I hold in my hand a minute made on the following day, stating what passed at the meeting, and which I delivered to nay hon. friend the member for Lyttelton, with and as part of my letter of resignation. He (Mr. Se-wiell) would now proceed to read that minute likewise :— [Memorahddm.] Auckland, August 2, 1854. I understand the effect of what took place at the meeting of the Executive Council yesterday to have been a.s follows :— The responsible members of the Executive Council submitted to his Excellency their reasons for considering it necessary to adopt without further dela.y the full principle of responsible government, and to appoint to the offices of Attorney-General, Colonial Secretary, and Colonial Treasurer, gentlemen possessing the confidence of the w House of Representatives. At

the same time they stated it might not be necessary to displace the present officers immediately—but that the House of Representatives might be satisfied to allow matters to remain till the end of the session, upon the clear understanding that a .permanent Government should beformed on the --principle of responsibility.,: To this his Excellency replied that such immediate adoption/of the principle of responsible government w^f going beyond the terms of his hist arrangement. He understood that ih 3 present arrangement might continue till the contemplated change was sanctioned by the Home, Government, and he urged that it was hard on him, as mere temporary administrator' of the Government, to compel hini to take a step which might be disapproved of. Restated that the Colonial Secretary had tendered his, resignation, which he held in his hand ready 46^ be accepted as soon as the Executive Government Bill was passed providing retiring pen-i sions—and this he considered to bea reasonable instalment of the principle, and a guarantee of his own good faith.. The Attorney-General stated that if.it were any satisfaction to the house, it might be as.sured that he had transmitted, or was ready to transmit, his resignation to the Duke of Newcastle, and that so soon as such resignatioft should be accepted from home he was prepared to retire. That in the meantime he would offer no obstruction to the measures of the responsible members of the Government, but he would not feel justified in retiring at once or before such sanction should have been received from home. , • The Colonial Secretary confirmed what his Excellency had stated.as regards himself. ... The Colonial Treasurer referred to his former proposal, which he explained as follows,- —viz: that he would be prepared to resign when the public service required it, and so soon as his resignation should have been accepted by the authorities in England, but not before. The Attorney-General, Colonial Secretary, and Colonial Treasurer stated that they could not advise his Excellency to accept of the.resignations of the above-mentioned officers upon other terms or in a different way, and they would not advise.him to remove the officers-by his own authority. I replied for myself thatl clearly understood when I took office that the old officers were prepared generally to resign when the public service required it —that I never contemplated such conditions, particularly as regards time, the effect of which would be to postpone altogether the question of responsible government. I further pointed out that, as regards the office of Colonial Treasurer, it would be practically impossible to carry on the Government without that office being at our disposal. We all pointed out that the question was no longer one of opinion as to what might be desirable but one of necessity ; that the house could not accept less than a complete responsible government—that they would refuse to pass Bills, and refuse supplies—and that we could not consistently urge them to do otherwise, seeing that we were about to transfer such large powers to the Executive. Mr. Fitz Gerald stated that recent circumstances particularly, relating to Finance and Land dealings, had made the house very jealous, and that a new and formidable opposition had arisen, which rendered it indispensably necessary to strengthen the Government by all means. We all stated our determination not to cany on the present Government on the present footing. The conference ended without coming to any definite conclusion—all parties remaining at the last precisely where they began. A suming the matter to remain in statu quo, and as the house will go into Committee on the Executive Government Bill this evening, before which it is necessary to define exactly the position of the Government, I have thought it right to request Mr. Fitz Gerald to relieve me from my obligation to him as a member of the GovernmenCand to place in his Excellency s hands the resignation of my seat in the Executive Council. I leave it to the house to judge whether I have in this matter acted with personal disrespect to his Excellency, or in a manner unbecoming of a member of the Government. He would now ask the house if he could have pursued a course more consistent with his duty, and with the principles of Responsible Government ? Message ordered to be printed. House adjourned.