GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume IV, Issue 189, 23 August 1854, Page 2

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

AUCKLAND

The news from Auckland is of a most important and interesting character. Mr. Fitz Gerald and his colleagues have resigned, on finding that His Excellency was not prepared tv carry out the principles of Responsible Government, by dismissing the irresponsible officers of the Executive, who, it was understood, would resign when the public service required it. Col. Wynyard appears to have been influenced by the sinister advice of some of the old bureaucracy at Auckland, who wish to hold their offices to the last. It is to the credit of the Colonial Secretary (Mr. Sinclair) that he is the only one of them who had sufficient public spirit to resign office unconditionally. His Excellency sent for Mr. E. G. Wakefield, although he did not possess in the {slightest degree .the confidence of the House, who have declared explicitly their confidence in the ex-Ministry, and their adherence to the principles which induced them to resign. Mr. Wakefield appears to have given the death-blow to his political character by exposing himself to conviction of deliberate falsehood. The division-list shows that Mr. Wakefield has but seven supporters, one of whom is his son. Mr. Bell has been obliged to leave Auckland on account of domestic matters. Mr. Bartley, member for the city of Auckland, was nominated to the Upper House, and to the vacant seat in the Executive Council. A vacancy thus took place in the House of Representatives, which was contested by Mr. Brown (the defeated candidate for^the superintendency) and Mr.Williamson, of the New Zealander. Mr. Brown was returned by a majority of 158.

We publish a summary of proceedings on the present crisis of affairs from the Southern Cross, together with the remarks of that paper upon them. We will endeavour to publish the debate in extenso in our next. August 4, 1854. On Wednesday evening, the Ministry came down to the House and stated that a Ministerial crisis had taken place, and that they had given in their resignations to the Governor. On Thursday Mr. Fitz Gerald entered into a detailed statement of the events which had necessitated.; this course. They had insisted on a complete recognition of the principle of ministerial responsibility. His Excellency refused, and the result wag a resignation. The hon. members speech was greeted with loud and repeated cheers. A message was received from the Governor. Mr. Sewell moved that it be taken into consideration and read. This was agreed to. But he objected to any explanations as to ministerial arrangements, unless by members Avho represent, or have repiesented, the Government. Mr. Wakefield took an opposite view. A division, which was in fact the trial of strength, took place, when there appeared for the exministry, 26, for Mr. Wakefield, 8. Mr. Wortley then I'ose and moved a vote of thanks to the late ministry for their past conduct, and of present confidence. This was seconded by Mr. Picard. Before putting the question, Mr. Wakefield rose and announced that he was authorized by the Governor to make a statement to the House. The gist of it was this, —that he had been sent for by his Excellency, to advise in the present juncture; that he had refused to accept office, but would serve as a kind of mediator between His Excellency and the House, though without any confident hopes of success. After reiterated assertions that he would not under any circumstances accept office under the Crown in New Zealand, he came round by degrees to intimating, that if he thought the colony in danger he would accept. This, although few were taken by surprise, was received with much derisive laughter by the House. To use an expressive colloquialism, the cat was out of the bag. A general impiession prevailed that the hon. member was likely to find himself of a most apprehensive disposition. But there was an additional contingency, in the event of which he was equally prepared to accept; in case he should consider that His Excellency was treated with cruelty and severity by the House ; which Mr. Weld observed, he certainly would do. He spoke in terrorem, of the possibility of prorogation or dissolution. It is to be observed, that he has managed to place himself in the position of being able to advise such a course without personal responsibility, and by the most curious contrivance, to cast the apparent responsibility upon the ex-ministry. But in contrivance, who can equal him ? We are writing hastily, but do not hesitate to express our conviction that the house will stand firm, and that a great political crime will be advised. After much speaking, but little debate, Mr. Wortley's motion of confidence in the ex-ministry was carried unanimously, Mr. Wakefield with his adherents not v having remained to face the House. Dr. Featherston moved and Mr. Carleton seconded the following resolution :— " That this House deems it necessary to reassert the principle, that amongst the objects which this House desires to see accomplished without delay, both as an essential means whereby the General Government may rightly exercise a due control over the Provincial Governments, and as a no less indispensable means of obtaining for the General Government the confidence and attachment of the people, the most

important is the establishment of ministerial responsibility in the.conduct of Legislative and Executive proceedings by the Governor. " That in the opinion of this House, the time has arrived when the safety of the Colony demands the full recognition of that principle by the appointment to the principal offices of the Government of those who possess the confidence of both his Excellency and of both the Houses of the Legislature."

This motion was also unanimously carried.

The present crisis arises from a pretended difficulty of now carrying out the arrangements, which were entered into when the responsible ministers occupied office : the 'real difficulty, in our opinion, is the financial embarrassment which has been so re.cently discovered. That some parties, one ,or more, are culpably ignorant or something .worse, there cannot be a doubt, and to cover the exposures which must inevitably take place, the present crisis has been courted and braved.

August Blh. The long-expected storm has burst at last, and the worst has still to come. Confined as yet to a single district , it must spread, as fast as news can travel, over every settlement in the Colony. Mr. Edward Gibbon Wafcefield's message to the House, with Governor Wynyaid's signature attached, has called it forth, and none can say ho\v soon it shall be laid.

Instead of the promised overtures for peace, a declaration of war came down. -The promise was of conciliation—of suggestion by which, the difference might be accommodated; the message is of insult, and of untruth. But it is not Governor Wynyard's message; Mr. Wakefield has relieved his Excellency from the imputation ; he has avowed himself the sole adviser—unsworn and irresponsible—of the Queen's representative, and has volunteered to take the responsibility of the message on himself. He has even stipulated with his Excellency, that none but himself shall advise; that no counsel whatever shall besought from the sworn and constitutionally established executive.

It is painfully evident, that the object of the message was to embroil the ex-ministry irretrievably with the Governor, so that it should be impossible for them to serve under him again; to induce an attack upon the Governor, in order that Mr. Walcefield might shew himself as the Governor's defender. But in this he was foiled ; for lie was driven to an avowal by Mr. Fitz Gerald, and forced to defend himself.

In absolute strictness ofspeeeb, the responsibility of the message rests upon the Governor alone; for Mr Wakefield's acts and performances as mediator—let us rather abide by honest vernacular, and say, as go-between, cannot be recognised by the House. But as to point of fact, no reasonable man can doubt that he was not aware of its mischievous intent. From carelessness, indeed, as the incident of the lobt sheet goes far to prove, he cannot be entirely absolved. We wish to believe that he read the draft as carelessly as he affixed his signature to the fair copy, which he must have signed without verification, and without the sanction of his constitutional advisers.

A remarkable incident occurred during the reading of the message. Quos Deus vult perdere, priiis dementat. Mr. Waken"eld the gobetween rose, took the message out of the Speaker's hand, and was proceeding to alter it, when stopped by Mr. Fitz Gerald. He only wished, as he said, to correct a clerical error, three or four words. The expression, though it does not tally with the loss of the sheet, was of course connected with it; but we were not prepared for anything so monstrous as an attempt, even by the member for the Hutt, to alter a vice-regal speech.

it was moved that the address be printed, and the House be adjourned until the evening. Mr. Fitz Gerald rose and emphatically denounced] the address, as replete with absolute untruths. He declared that it was not the Governor's address ; he fully relieved the Governor from any share in it, but proved the falsehood against some one.

Mr. Wakefield then rose, and avowed the .authorship. For the scene which then took place, we refer to the debates. But we notice a few points of his speech.

He repeated his declaration that he would not accept office iv New Zealand, —this time, with-

out tlie provision that was at first attached. Even '* cruelty and injustice to the Governor ' will not induce him now. The derisive laughter with which the reservation had heen received by the House may have prevented him. In answer to the charge of his position being unconstitutional, he argued that there was nothing- against it in the Constitution Act! Does he understand the meaning of the word? Had there been any thing against it in the Constitution Act, it would have been more than unconstitutional ; it would have been illegal. And why did he not quote the Koyal Instructions as well as the Act ? For there he would have found that the Governor must consult his Executive Council, except under certain circumstances, none of which apply. But Mr. Wakefield has forbidden his Excellency to consult them. Should he do so, the go-between minister, according to stipulation, is to take up his hat and walk away. In the ardour of his defence of the Governor, who had never been attacked, he complained that Mr. Fitz Gerald had accused his Excellency of falsehood. Mr. Fitz Gerald called out across the table,- —" no, no, no ;it is you who were accused;" And Mr. Wakefield did not appeal to the House. Neither did he walk out of the House. It had suited him much better to transfer the charge than to rebut it.

Statements had been made by the message, which could not be suffered to remain unchallenged for a single day. The ex-ministry should have been permitted to make their counterstatement—to save themselves from the period of imputation that must have elapsed between the reading of the message and its consideration by the House. The debate should have been then adjourned. But what was the course adopted by the hon. member for the Hutt? After observing that he could only speak by indulgence,—a request which was instantly supported by Mr. Fitz Gerald, —after making use of that indulgence to taunt them, to impute motives, to lower them in public estimation by every argument that his ingenuity could devise —after securing, as he supposed, the last word for himself, he strove to bar them from their .right of reply, by causing repeated motions for division and adjournment, under the flimsy pretext that it was improper to explain —to redeem that personal honour which he had himself im-pugned-—prior to the consideration of a message tllaTTjiad yet to be put into the printer's hands.

Our own feeling, after witnessing a most exciting" debate, was of sorrow only. To see an old man—fearlessly, in the face of his Maker, fathering- the statements put forth by Governor Wym'ard's message ; and again,—pardon us for placing- the latter thought in the same sentence with the first —venturing to place his own assertions in the balance against those of three such persons, known and tried, commanding more and more respect as they come to be more closely known, —it is more then incredible ;it is shocking1. We believe, indeed, that he is himself a ruined man—that he has thrown his last political stake. The House will not give way, and the whole colony will rise against his irresponsible, unconstitutional government. But before the end shall come, he may have time for doing irretrievable damage to the colony. An unskilful builder up-—for every one of his schemes has failed—he is gifted in pulling down. An unskilful builder up, (to borrow an idea from Addison) he can ruin village after village, and glorify himself in the approbation of the owls.

Let us briefly consider the present position of Her Majesty's representative, —at one moment preferring the advice of his old Executive officers, even when opposed to the adoption of that system of Government which the colony has so long desired, and without which it will never be satisfied, causing thereby the resignation of men who possessed the confidence of the representatives of the colony—and a few hours afterwards—on an occasion hy far the most important of the session, and one deeply affecting the position of the Governor, —discarding from his councils the very men by whose opinion lie had been before fortified, and placing himself under the sole '"guidance of one minister, not possessed of the confidence of the house—now-responsible in any^way for the advice upon which his Excellency acted : how can this step be justified at [home ? What reasons can be pleaded for such a step here ? In the belief that with the existing relations

between his Excellency and the representative of the colony, any false steps might lead to th most calamitous consequences, we would almo B in fear and trembling, entreat His Excellency to pause ere it be too late, and when nought may be left for him but to exclaim, übi lapsus, quid fed.

Had Governor Wynyard acted solely on prerogative—had he entered single-handed into collision with the house, autocratically, casting off responsible government, and re-introducing the old state of things,—however much we might have disapproved, we should still have respected his course of action. But, unfortunately, he gets somebody to help him ; he calls in a member of the house, notoriously one of a small minority, to assist him, unsworn, in an endeavour to hold his ground against that house.

The old officials—a day or two ago so triumphant, where are they now? Look to the humiliated position in which they are placed; totally ignored and utterly insulted. The At-torney-General dare not advise the Governor, for if he proffer a word, the go-between will take up his hat, and walk away, never to favour his Excellency with aid and guidance more. The cuckoo in the hedge sparrow's nest, shouldering out his half-fledged foster-brother. And how did the Attorney-General come to this pass ? Not through the ex-ministry ; not through the Governor, but through his |own. lack of manly straightforward honesty.

A ready tool in the hands of Governor Grey ; a misleader when in command of {Governor Wynyard : a frightened hare when at the mercy of Wakefield the go-between.

We believe that there is no doubt of his having once agreed to vacate his office, and to accept it again under a system of responsible government. But the letters of all the old officials, two of them ( agreeing to resign upon compensation, the third, with or without compensation, are upon the table of the house.

The Colonial Secretary—wise in his generation, because unconfirmed —has actually sent in his resignation ; but the Attorney-General and the Treasurer refused, on the ground of their letters not bearing the construction winch was put upon them by the Ministry and by the House.

We cannot lose time in dissecting words, in arguing the various constructions that their written promises might "be found to bear. We toko higher ground than that. The old officials knew right well what construction was put upon their letters by the responsible ministry, and did not undeceive them. They knew the construction that was put upon their letters by the House, and did not undeceive the House. They knew that the House was giving powers to a responsible, which they would never have given to an irresponsible ministry. But they lay by silently, they bided their time, and at last declared, in the true Grey fashion, that they had been " entirely misunderstood."

And if the old officials did not intend immediate resignation, upon what grounds did they stipulate "for compensation ? Their ultimate dismissal by the Queen was sure: for compensation, they would have had to trust to the generosity of the colony. What right had they to stipulate ? Stipulation was sheer impertinence. What the colony wanted, was immediate resignation, and the colony was willing to pay for it; and they knew it. What did they give up in return for payment? If they gave up"nothing—if the resignation was to be referred home, it was a nudiim pactum ; there was no consideration. The colony could have waited for that without conceding "the gratuitous advantage. They knew that it was a common saying at the time—almost a household won!— " buy them out ; it is cheap at the money." Whenever compensation was objected to on account of their incapacity or past misconduct, this was the invariable answer.

The late responsible ministry nave been taunted with being ''a young ministry." They are ten years older, now; they have been tn light the bitterest lesson in life—mistrust. They were dealing with Grey oilicials, ami th:>ught that they were dealing with men as singlehearted as themselves. They have; suffered themselves to be entrapped ; and the iud of all is—the loss, for the present —but only for the present —of responsible government to the

colony

What course of policy will be adopted by Mr. Wakeiield the go-between?—always supplying

that be be not dislodged by stringent measures? When lie shall have satisfied himself that the House is firm, we assume that he will prorogue —that he will throw out baits on all sides—that if they be swallowed, he will dissolve at his opportunity. There is one chance, however, against a dissolution—that the minister would not be able to come in agaiu for the Hutt. For lie would there be" mobbed by the' working settlers, whom, like others, while he has tauffhtj he has deceived. But how will the Colony bear its business beino- stopped ? And for whose advantage is )it stopped? For that of a go-between, who strives to thrust himself upon a Colony that is resolute not to have him. .

What of the Wynyard Tastimonial ? How' will that be affected by Mr. Wakefield, the overthrower of ministerial responsibility, remaining Chairman of Committee? R Who wrote the Governor's opening address ? Who supplied the untrue financial statements contained therein ? Be it remembered that the ex-ministry were obliged to appeal to the house for the support of a special committee of investigation ; and that the financial embarrassment of the country under the old system was one of the causes that precipitated the resignation of the ministry.

What will be done in England by Governor Grey? To him the crisis will be no less than a godsend. He feels personal aversion to Mr. Wakefield ; he is jealous of: Colonel Wynyard, and can have no love for an Assembly which he neglected to summon, and which has used him so roughly in debate. The chances are, that he will do his best.to injure all.

One word with regard to ourselves. Aware long since of his influence, either for evil or for good, aware of. the intense prejudice with which he was regarded in the North—anxious, for the honour of the Province, that he should have fair play and level ground to stand upon, we used our best endeavours to secure for him his legitimate position. He knows—no man better— how faithfully we fulfilled the understanding; but he likewise knows, that from that time forward, he was to be taken as he was found, to be judged by his own merits; that he was to make good his footing as best'he might. And while the battle for ministerial responsibility was going on, he promised well. He was in the ranks, and did his duty like a disciplined man. B'ntso soon as the fight was won, he went upon the loose. Then the restless, vain, intriguing spirit, for want of better occupation, began to work mischief. Within three days from the supposed establishment of ministerial responsibility, we were gravely at issue with him, and were fain to admit that the shadow of his reputation had been cast before. Still we could have wished him to occupy a high position in the colony, (though of the highest we never so much as dreamed), in hopes that it might soothingly operate a change upon his mind, and lead him into employing his unquestionable talent for the sole advantage of the colony. But from that time forward he went on from bad to worse, evidently with the intent of ousting the ministry,-—throwing every difficulty in their way,—keeping hack the necessary legislation which we should have had lon«r since, but for hi? hairsplitting opposition, and interminable speeches, until we had no alternative but to separate ourselves definitively from his baits and promises, from his manoeuvres from his systematic imputations upon houourablemen, and from the unconstitutional course winch he has now irrevocably adopted. Plain speaking has now become a duty—a painful duty, but one from which it would be cowardly to shrink. It is a duty to the colony • it is a duty to the Governor of the colony, who has fallen into the hands of one who will ruin Ins political reputation, as surely as he ruined tiiat ot Lord Durham in Canada. We know that we are acting rightly, and feel that we shall be upheld by the higher minded portion ot every class in the community.

[Debate on Responsible Government concluded.']

Mr. Kklham rose, and said that he laboured under a similar disadvantage as the two previous speakers, finding himself forestalled in many points hy others who had handled them better than he could have done. He would trouble the house Iml shortly, and 'would first address himself lo explain a misconception winch appeared to prevail iv the mind of the

Hon. memUer for the Northern Division relative to the resolution now before the'ho,use. The gentleman had stated that the resolution would, if carried, force upon the Governor the appointment of ministers who might not be agreeable to him; he thought the resolution .did not bear so offensive a meaning ; quite the contrary; by adopting it this house would only affirm an abstract proposition, the practical application of which, the hon.- mover himself, and lie thought very discreetly, declined to explain fully in the present stage.of the proceedings, as he knew well that all great political questions like the present must be approached with due caution. i The Governor certainly could not advance in 1 this question, neither could the .house properly do so beyond the present step, for if it put forth more specific proposals, it might not be able to withdraw, from them with dignity, if they proved impracticable. An address to the Governor not going beyond the present resolution he hoped and believed would be graciously considexed, and might bring about a conference with some members of this honse when probably terms would be arranged satisfactorily to all parties. Already, he believed, that for' want of proper constitutional advice a move had been made in the wrong direction in his Excellency's speech. If there was any doubt whether the house should originate Money Votes, (he thought it had the right to do so) there certainly could be none as to its sole powers to grant the supplies, and therefore when the question of finance was treated in the speech, the gentlemen of the House of Representatives should have been exclusively addressed upon, the subject. Had there been a Minister of Finance in this house, where his presence was especially required, he would be asked whether in the exercise of a watchful attention to the growing prosperity of the colony, and the consequent stability of its credit in the money market, he intended to initiate any measure for the purpose of converting the present Debenture Debt, now bearing 8 per cent interest into one of 5 per cent, whereby £1,000 per anuum would be saved to the colony ; the practicability of such a measure could not be doubted when it was known that in the neighbouring province of Wellington a loan of £5,000 had been nearly completed at 5 per cent: he thought it would be a reflection upon the General Government if it could not obtain the same terms. The house would probably further enquire, in. reference to the Colonial Bank of Issue, whyJthe colony -vy aa placed in the anomalous position of lending with one hand their money at 3 per cent, while, with the other it was borrowing at 8 per cent, leaving a clear loss to the colony of £600 per annum. It was not his intention to dilate upon these subjects; he introduced them for the purpose of showing how difficult it was for the house to deal with matters of finance, its especial province, without responsible government. He had meant to have introduced motions upon these subjects, but had deferred doing so, as useless, until this all-important question had been disposed of; already there were notices of motion on the paper sufficient to occupy the House for six months, unless better machinery was provided to work the public business with. To Responsible Government he was not pledged when elected nearly twelve months back, but since then the question gained great ground in Wellington by being publicly discussed ; he was confirmed in His opinion as to its absolute necessity, and that it should be the first object of legislation, by the opinions of the whole of the constituency in that important Province, and in voting for the measure he was no longer at liberty to be guided alone'by his individual judgment. He should vote for the resolution.

Mr. Gledhill said. Sir, ever since this debate commenced up to the present time, I have refused to come to any decision, as to whether I should vote for or against the motion. Not because I had any doubts myself as to the effects of Responsible Government in New Zealand, but because I had been told by gentlemen that reasons would be given in this house that would convince me tli'ut such a Government would not work in this country. Now, Sir, I have been listening these three days with strict attention, and I am bound to confess the arguments have utterly failed to convince me ; but on the contrary, they have, if it was necessary, strengthened me in my formed opinion that Responsible Government is necessary. Indeed the arguments are forcible in favour of it. It has been stated by lion, members that, if Responsible Government be established, " that the

Seat of Government would be removed to" some other Settlement." Does not this very statT ment demonstrate that they are holdin- the Seat of Government by Irresponsible Govern ment against the wishes and the interests, of the majority of the settlers of the country? I ( j 0 not mention this to discuss the desirableness of removing the Seat of Government from Auckland, as it is irrelevant to the motion. Let the question be met on the broad principle, which no single hon. member has ever attempted to do. The only opposition offered is that of time The hon. member for the Hutt who proposed the motion, has of all men been the most fortunate in proposing a motion so fraught with importance as the one now before the Committee, aud yet there is" not a single member of this house who openly declares himself opposed to it. How can any British subject say 'Responsible Government will not work well in any country where intelligent Britons reside ? Look to the history of ouv -own country. See what was the state of England in 1815 ; were there not Societies and Associations formed, and. meetings called in every part pf tfie countryV Thousands and scores of thousands assembled to express their united opinion —^upon what? Responsible Government. Does any one say there Was Responsible Government in the House of Commons? There ought to have been, but the representatives of the people were swamped' by the members who were.sent by the corrupt Boroughs, some of which possessed twenty, and others four voters. The agitations never ceased until the Reform Bill passed into a law, by which the people procured fair representation in the House of Commons, through which the Government became responsible to the people. The same reasons Which operated on the minds of the English at home should move them to action here. And yet we are to be told that in the whole of the men who have been chosen to represent the inhabitants of New Zealand, there are not any to be found whose talents or standing iii society would justify the Governor in adding them to the Executive. This would indicate that all the talent had been left in London. I cannot persuade myself there are any members of this house who would inflict a wrong upon the whole of the country to benefit their own settlement. As to fears expressed respecting the natives, I think that is something like the cry which used to be heard in England, "The church is in danger." I do ;not believe £hfi-natives..do distrust this Assembly. On the contrary, T think they have the fullest confidence in it. I have now in my possession letters from natives which may perhaps come before this house in some shape or other, complaining of the.present Government, and seeking support from this house. Surely self will be buried in a general question like the present, which involves the liberties of all. As the reasons promised have not been produced, I must vote for the original motion. (Cheers.) JVi'r. Meerimast said that if the question under the consideration of the Committee had been confined to the abstract principle of Responsible Government, he would not have troubled the house with any observations so as' any further to protract this already lengthy debate : but as the discussion had already degenerated from the general question of the advantages of ministerial responsibility to the particular manner in which that responsibility would affect this the Northern portion of New Zealand, he trusted the Committee would bear with him for a few minutes.whilst he addressed to them a few observations on the. subject before them with reference to its probable effect upon the Province of Auckland. He would, however, first observe that the honourable member for the Hutt had compared the house to hungry guests waiting for dishes to be placed on the table; it must, however, be admitted that they had at any rate one large dish placed before them, which had certainly been amply discussed by nearly all the members present; and with reference to the remark which had fallen from the honourable member opposite that he had heard no arguments brought forward against the motion with the exception of those urged by the honourable member for the Northern division, he would observe that to his (Mr. Merriman's) mind that dish was soinehing like a meat pie without salt. The honourable member for the Northern Division, had, it is true, shaken in a little salt, for which, to u?e his own illustration, he had been treated to a game of" buffet the bear," to such an extent that he was not surprised that mem-

bers.had avoided adding any pepper by urging other objections. But it appeared to him that there was .but one opinion on the subject—-the only argument was for delay. And feeling that there was no real difficulty in carrying out the proposition of the honourable member for the Hutt, that one or two members of that house should be added to the Executive Council, he was prepared to vote for the original motion ; but, whilst he was convinced that the honourable member's 'proposition was practicable, he had strong doubts as to the powerof the present, or indeed any Governor, to introduce the principles of Ministerial Responsibility in its integrity. He thought, however, that the substitute suggested by the honourable member was sufficient. He now came to the consideration how Auckland would be effected by Mir nisterial Responsibility. For his own part, he could not look upon this question as properly described by an |bon. member as a bugbear. Some honourable members appear to think that the members from the Southern portion of New Zealand would comhine together for the injury of the Northern portion. Now surely if they were so inclined, the Southern members would do this under an irresponsible government as well as they could under a responsible one. They, the Southern members, far outnumber the Northern, and if so inclined, could completely swamp Auckland. But there had been no such disposition evinced. As far as his (Mr. Merriman's) experience went, he had found them actuated by far higher motives. That there appeared to him to be a desire on the part of the members of the Southern Provinces cordially to co-operate with those representing the Northern Province, for the purpose of passing such measures as would tend to advance New Zealand as an entirety, and not such as were only beneficial to each separate Province. That it was only too true that the jealousies alluded to by the honourable member for the Hutt had existed; they were raised by injustice to the" South—their existence was continued by injustice to the North. But those jealousies had now happily ceased to exist; and he could not help agreeing with the honourable member for Motueka, that the atten dance of honourable members from the south in Auckland had very much tended to extinguish those jealousies. There now only remained one honest rivalry between the different districts. Auckland had taken her place in the race—the Native titles acted as a ouib upon her exertions, which had completely thrown her upon her haunches ; but despite of all this, if that curb was removed, she would win in a canter, or he (Mr. Merriinan) was much mistaken.

Mr. Wortlet said—Sir, notwithstanding the great number of speakers that have addressed this house before myself, and the eloquent exposition1 of the principles involved they have given, I feel unwilling, as an independent member, and as a representative of an important constituency, to givea silent vote. During the two days that this debate has already continued, I have watched its progress with feelings of the deepest interest and pleasure. With interest, because I cannot but feel that it is a subject which materially affects the present and future prosperity of my country, the working out of representative institutionsin their fullest integrity, and the real position of this house, I have the honour to sit iv :—and with pleasure because the manner in which this discussion has been conducted, foreshadows that spirit which will animate our debate when there may perhaps be a government on the one side, and an earnest but conscientious opposition on the other. I must say, Sir, that I entered this house deeply sensible of the importance of the question, and with an opinion already formed in favour of it; and the admirable speeches I have heard from lion, members have very materially strengthened that opinion, and have made me still more confident of the good that would result from theadoption of the principle involved in the motion before us. The slight opposition, if I may so call it, and the few opinions expressed against its immediate introduction, have had but one most satisfactory effect upon me. They have shown me, Sir, that a great principle can be fairly discussed in this house, that hou. members are not afraid to state opinions in the face of a large majority, and objection and reply can be "bandied about on both sides with equanimity and good temper. But, Sir, to turn to the more immediate subject of debate. There are one or two points on which

I shall wish to offer a few words, and in doing this, I would particularly crave the utmost indulgence of this house to its youngest and most inexperienced member. In the first place, Sir, I would once-more refer to, bis Excellency's address, and the policy recommended in it. It advocates the establishment of a strong General Government, rather than the erection of six little independent states, each with different forms of legislation on one subject, With inharmonious action, and perhaps with want of community of interests. In this I agree with his Excellency, but I must confess that the course of action he may see fit to adopt with reference to the subject now before us, would materially affect the line I should take with regard to his policy. In each of the provinces the principle of responsible government is distinctly acknowledged, ministerial responsibility is in a great measure carried out, and the people have through their representatives a direct control over the advisers of the Superintendents. But, Sir, what is our position with regard to the general Executive ? We actually know nothing about it. We have no control over its actions, and we seem to be two totally separate and independent bodies, without any reference whatever one with another. We are in fact like a mind disjointed from the body that is to carry our actions into resolution, while that body acts without the mind that ought to control and guide it. And yet, Sir, we are told that we have full Representative institutions. Why,. Sir, I think that at present we are but on the threshold. Are Representative Institutions the fact of this House being allowed to meet, deliberate, and express opinions, and yet without being permitted to have the least control over the execution of the acts they pass? The book of Ordinances ofNew Zealand will show more than one instance of laws duly passed, but never brought into operation by the executive. And are we to run the chance of having this happen again ? No, Sir, let us uphold the one great principle of the right of the people, to have a control through their representatives over the Government that rules them. Let us assert this priuciple ; Let us press it with all the constitutional means in our power. But, sir, if the present state of things were to continue, I would ask the most determined advocate of a strong General Government, bad an alternative as it is, whether it were not better to have everything under the control of responsible Provinoial Governments, lljan subject to the arbitrary disposition of an irresponsible General Government? But, I trust, sir, this may not be required. I have too much faith, too much confidence in his Excellency's liberal views, to think that he will refuse this house its moderate demands. Let him grant us this,, and he will find that so far from being an embarrassment to him, it will facilitate every action of his every communication with us, and enable him to work out this constitution in its integrity, shewing to the world what unhappily is a rare spectacle, an adminstrator of the Government of alColony in full and complete harmony with the representatives of the people, while after generations will learn to bless his name as one, who trusted by his Sovereign, found it not incompatible with that position to be beloved by his people. We have been told, Sir, that the establishment of this principle would have the effect of dividing this house into parties, and of making its members mere aspirants for office, disguising place hunting \mder the form of patriotism. 'These two objections I would answer together. If by a party is meant a set of men without any regard to the dictates of their conscience, neglecting the duty they owe to their country, the duty they owe to their God, unscrupulous,greedy, and selfish, seeking merely for a share in the Government of their country for the sake of those emoluments such a position may entail; then, sir, I would agree with the proposition: but if. on the other hand, and as I am sanguine it would be, party means a certain number of the representatives of the people, who, anxious to carry into effect such means as they conscientiously feel to be the best for the country, careful, self-forgetting, and self-denying—seek to carry out these measures against a policy they disapprove of, by combined forces and unity of action ; then, Sir, I say let us have parties, let the palm of victory be honourably contested for, let us have members differing from one another, checking the extravagances of each other, but plike working for their country's good—a:;d may it become the ambition of each and all, as it ought to be,

to be allowed tbelhigh honour of conducting the administration of their country, from their possessing the largest amount of confidence of the representatives of the people. And here, Sir, I would-remark that though at the present moment we may not all of us see the pressing want of the assertion of the responsibility of the executive, and the necessity of the establishment of it, at a time when there [are 116 patties in this house, yet let us look forward and anticipate any collision that may occur, I do not say that any will, with the government'witliout any preparation for the emergency. In the present state of affairs I am filled with alarm at the contemplation of such a crisis. We know to what lengths 'an exasperated popular assembly will go, and we can prophesy what a stubborn Government would persist in. But once have this principle of Responsible Government established, and the difficulties vanish ; the hon. member for the Hutt well observed, one set of gentlemen go out and another set walk in, and the matter is at an end. Let us then while still at peace not shut our eyes to the possibilities of the contrary state, and the means to be adopted to advert it. Again, Sir, we are told that there are not a sufficient number of men amongst us of sufficient means and leisure to attend to official duties with only a temporary tenure. If I remember right, the same argument was also used against the Assembly in which we are now deliberating. It was then said to be impossible to collect members for a house like this and to induce them to leave their homes and business to legislate for their country. Yet what is the fact. With but one or two exceptions all the members are present, and. mark you, at far greater inconvenience than will occur again with increased facilities of communication. Let this answer to the one argument answer the other also. I have no fear but that when the time comes men will not not be found wanting, and that this house which asserts the principle will not refuse the means of action. Sir, we are at present sailing in the calm sea of prosperity, with a cloudless sky above us, it behoves us to make preparations for any storm that may follow, though at present there may be no indications of it. Let us then be ready to do our part ; let us take such measures as may seem to us necessary to place the government of our country on a firm and secure foundation. And then. Sir, if our demands are refused, if the tempest comes down, and the joy and gladness throughout the land should be destroyed through the acts of a Government the people have no confidence in ; on their be the burden. We shall at least be able to say, this is none of our doings, we would have none of it. But I hope, I trust, I feel confident, Responsible government will be granted us sooner or later ; it must ; the sooner the better for all; and may our proud boast hereafter be, that we, sitting in the first Parliament of New Zealand, as the very first of our acts when enjoying Bepresentative Institututions, asserted the necessity of the establishment of its twin sister, and inseparable companions—Responsible Government (cheers). Mr. Forsaith said that, as the debate was now drawing to a close, as little remains to be done but formally to declare the decision which it is evident this house has already virtually pronounced, it might be reasonably expected that he should withdraw the amendment he had proposed. In ordinary circumstances he should have felt it to be his duty to do so ; but maintaining, as he had done,"aloneand unsupported, opinions.differing from those of the house, he could not with propriety adopt this course. The position he iiad taken was either right or wrong, and as the future alone could decide the question it was necessary that his position should be recorded. If the future should disclose the fact that his opinions were wrong, then he hud been guilty of the greatest presumption thus pertinaciously to contend against the judgment of the house, and it was right that it should be recorded iv order that the disgrace and ridicule which such pertinacity deserved might he visited upon him. But on the other hand if future events should discover the correctness of lns arguments, that in the first place it was legally impracticable to introduce immediately responsible government; and in the secoud place, that if practicable it would not be expedient without previous preparation, then it would be only right too, to have it recorded that at least one member of the house objected to the motion as an abuse of the power which was placed in their hands. Honourable members had been pleased

during tlie discussion to make him an example of a simile that he had incidentally used, and had buffeted him to their hearts' content.— (Laughter and cries of no, no.) He hoped hon. members would admit that he was a good-na-tured bear. (Laughter.) He had submitted to their buffeting with patience and good humour. (Hear, hear.) He had proved, he hoped, to their satisfaction, that he had the endurance of the bear, and now he would prove by dividing the house, though he might stand alone in the division, that when he believed himself light, he had the courage of tbe lion. (Applause.) Honourable members would recollect that when he first stated his opinion of the legal obstacles that might be found to lie in the way of immediate responsible government, his opiniou was echoed from that side of the house by an honourable member—a member of the legal profession —and that echo had reverberated again this morning from this side of the. house. Another honourable member, also of the.legal profession, having declared that although his Excellency might legally add one or mbrelmembers of this house to his Executive.Council, yet he did not think he could legally make the tenure of their office depend upon the will of the house. This led him to recur to the partial admission he had made on Saturday, after hearing the honourable member for Christchurch (Mr. Sewell) deliver his opinion on the law of the case. It would be recollected that he had admitted that his scruples on this point were shaken, though not entirely removed by the hou. member's argument. He had this morning examined the matter a little more closely, and although the honourable member had acknowledged at the time, that his opinion was "hastily " formed, he could not help regretting that the honourable member had been in such " a hurry." (Laughter.) As by examination he (Mr. F.) was convinced that the honourable member's argument was based on a fallacy, and he must now recall his former admission as his scruples had returned in all their force. The honourable member had declared that when the Constitution under which the house was that day (assembled, had arrived in the colony, it found only Provincial officers; that the colony having been divided into the Provinces of New Ulster and New Monster, there was no such offices in existence as Attorney-General, Colonial Secretary, and Colonial Treasurer for New Zealaud. But if honourable members would turn to the Instructions of 1840, they would find that Her Majesty had clearly defined the constitution of the Legislative Council, and of the Executive Council". And if they turned to the Act of Suspension, which annulled the Constitution of Earl Grey by which the colony was divided into two distinct provinces, they would find that the Instructions of 1840, relative to the constitution of the Legislative councils, were by this Act revived and again put in "force, and as the Letters Patent accompanying and incorporated with tbe present Constitution rauke the formation of the Executive Council to rest on the same basis, and declare that it shall consist of the same officers, and that any other^appointments made should be subject to Her Majesty's confirmation or disallowance, it was clear, he thought, that while his Excellency might add members from this house to his Executive, he could not make their tenure of office dependent on the will of the house. He con Id not however resume his place without giving vent to the satisfaction and pleasure he had experienced from finding that although apparently unsupported in his opinion, he was not in reality alone. There was in the house at least one honourable member who concurred with him, though he might not be able to divide on the amendment owing to a discrepancy between the wording of it and the sentiments he maintained, who with him would yet give assurance to the constituency of this Province that amongst their representatives there were some who, like Abdiel, stood firm amidst the general defection.

Mr. O'Nkill said, that the concluding part of the honourable member's speech mi>vht be considered very pretty, but he would 'like to know what he meant by the allusion to the /ailing1 off of thu Northern members. They recognise no leader in that house, and how could any member assert that there had been a hilling oil. when there had been no support given by any one of them to his amendment. Mr f ohsaiih said, that he spoke of a general defection on their part, as referring not to what took place since the house met, but to pre-

vious professions of a careful protection of the interests of this Province.

Mr. Sewjeix made a few r remarks in explanation.

Mr. Fitz Gerald had heard a good deal respecting the Royal Instructions, and the authority contained therein for the constitution of the present Executive, It was only the night before that he (Mr. Fitz Gerald) had an opportunity of perusing those Instructions, and it really did appear to him that if there was any force in what had been urged on this ground, the Queen's Commission appointing the officers of the present Executive, should be placed before the house, He thought this was so necessary that he was strongly of the opinion that those documents, of the existence of which he was doubtful, should be called for by the house.

Mr. Mackay on rising said, it was not his intention to occupy the time of the house, for he could not originate a single new idea on the subject then under discussion. He, however, could not allow himself to give a silent vote, whilst heartily concurring in all that had been so ably said by the mover of the Resolution, and so many other honourable members,!in favour of Responsible Government. Before sittingdown he would further remark, that it had afforded him no small pleasure to have heard this most important question discussed with so great consideration, good temper, ability, and patience. Mr. Cargili, said that, having in common with his constituents strong views on the absolute necessity of Responsible Government, he could not give a silent vote on the occasion, but felt, however, that at this stage of the debate the subject was exhausted, and he could therefore only record his sense of obligation to those honourable members who had so ably advocated the good cause, and also to those who, by taking an apparently opposite view, had thereby had the subject|thoroughly sifted. He cordially supported the motion of his honourable friend the member for the Hutt. The house then divided on the amendment as follows: Ayes—Mr. Forsaith. Noes—Messrs. E. G. Wakefield, Gledhill, Rhodes, Mackay, Hart, Kelham, Crompton, Cargili, McAndrew, O'Neill, Picard, Lee, King, Wortley, Weld, Ludlam, Greenwood, Bartley, Sewell, Fitz Gerald, Revans, Cutten, Gray, E. J. Wakefield, Carleton, Merriman, Taylor, O'Brien, Clifford—2y. Amendment lost,and original motion carried. The house resumed, when the Chairman of the Committee reported progress. Mr. Hart said there has been much advanced in the course of the debate with reference to the past from which he entirely dissented ; but he had laid down this rule for himself, that he would not occupy the time of the house with matter irrelevant to the.question before it, or repeat what had been said by others, unless to add something to what had gone before. He would therefore wait till those inquiries should be instituted which had been promised, when he would endeavour to justify the opinions he had formed by reference to facts as seen from the point of view in which they had appeared to him. The original question was then put and carried. Mr. Fitz Gerald gave notice that he would move— That an humble address be presented to His Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, praying that His Excellency will be pleased to lay before the house copies of the Letters Patent, Warrants, or other documents, under which the present Attorney-General, Colonial Treasurer, and Colonial Secretary, hold their appointments. The house then adjourned until two o'clock on Tuesday.