GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

Lyttelton Times, Volume IV, Issue 188, 12 August 1854, Page 8

GENERAL ASSEMBLY.

[Debates continued from our last Number,~\ HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES. Mr. Foksaith said—He was glad that the discussion had that day assumed a more practical form. Much that had been advanced by the different speakers of the preceding day, turned upon this question in the 'abstract, but to-day we are coming closer to the point. For he contended that the real question at issue was, not the advantage of Responsible Government in the abstract, but the practicability and expediency of its immediate application to this Colony. He felt no little uneasiness and embarrassment in the position he occupied; Standing nearly if not quite alone in opposition to the sentiments of that house, he could not but feel uneasy at the thought that his opinion was directly contrary to that of so many hon. members more advanced in years, and of much greater experience, than himself. But he trusted the house would do him justice to believe that he only occupied this position in obedience to the dictates of conscience and from a sense of duty. He had some reason to complain of the misrepresentations that had been attached to his opinions. He was not an opponent of Responsible Government. He was not even opposed to its introduction into this colony. He admitted the inconvenience that at present existed in the mode of communication with the Executive— though he thought this inconvenience had been unduly magnified. He would not object to any plan for removing the inconvenience which did not involve the immediate admission of ministerial responsibility in all its integrity. The hon. member who opened the discussion of to-day had alluded to his opinions as so vague, so unsatisfactory, and so intangible, that they presented no surface upon which ajdistinct proposition could be based. But if such were the case, he would ask that hon. member how it happened that every succeeding speaker had made these vague opinions the subject of special attack. With respect to the opinion he (Mr. Forsaith) had advanced on the legal obstacles in the way of the introduction of Responsible Government, the house would recollect that he had stated bis scruples on this head with diffidence and not in a dogmatical spirit. The hon. member (Mr. Sewell)had entered largely upon the legality of the object aimed at. He (Mr. Fovsaith) thanked the hon. member for doing so, for although he could not affirm that his scruples on this head were entirely removed by the hon. member's argument, yet he felt it to be his duty to make those scruples in some measure succumb to the opinion of the hon. member whose profession it was to understand and expound the law. But his convictions of the inexpediency of this step remained in all their force. The hon. member for the Pensioner Settlements had enlarged on the fact that this Province was not duly represented in that house, and it was on that ground that he (Mr. F.) maintained that the step could not, with safety to the interests of this Province, be taken, until such re-adjustment in the constitution of that house had been made as would establish on .a fair equilibrium the balance of power. The hon. member just referred to had closed his remarks by calling upon the hon. mover of the resolution to explain his views of the practical influences of Responsible Government on the local interests of the respective Provinces, and the hon. member for the Hutt had in reply indulged the house with a very discursive and entertaining speech, but which afforded no satisfactory answer to the question that had been propounded. He (Mr. F.) had jotted down some of the topics upon which the hon. member had touched, and would now, as far as memory and these notes enabled him, follow the hon. member in his course and bring him back to the question again. The hon. member has very naturally and properly interpreted the question thus. How will Responsible Government affect the -interests of the Province of Auckland, and he commenced his explanation by eulogising in the most enthusiastic terms, the natural advantages of this Province—its facility of water communication —the fertility of its soil—the extent of its native population, and their habits of productive industry. He told us that he bad known persons who in speaking of the excellencies of their respective localities, were so extravagantly adulatory that their econiums were little better than cajolery, and from the ardour of his own

professed admiration of this Province he afforded too good grounds for supposing that he was copying the example of those whose cajolery he condemned. The hon. member next proceeded to state that his opinions of this Province had been repeatedly' expressed both in public and in private, and in proof he proceeded to read from the Wellington papers a report of his sayings at a public meeting. He (Mr. F.) confessed that the course adopted in this instance by the hon. member was extremely puzzling. It would be recollected by the house that not long ago a letter appeared in one of the local journals of this Province, signed by the hon. member, in which he earnestly cautioned the people of Auckland against placing reliance upon the Wellington papers. Mr. Wakefield here rose to explain: he said he had especially excepted the reports of those meetings which had appeared in the Spectator, from which paper he had read them to the house. It was the style of reporting in another Wellington paper which he had found fault with in his circular addressed to the New Zealand press. Mr. For&aith continued—the honourable member had certainly cautioned us against reliance on the Wellington press, and he (Mr. F.) had great difficulty in determining which he ought to rely upon, the reports of the press or upon the hon. member's letter. It was a very nice point, but he would leave it to the hon. member himself to decide upon which horn of the dilemma he would be placed. The hon. member next referred to his (Air. F.s) opinions as amounting in his estimation to something like this—that no means should be adopted to prevent quarrelling, but that if we did quarrel we must be let alone to fight it out. This was exactly the opposite of his (the speaker's) views. He believed that there was no necessity for quarrelling—he would not have a fight at all, and therefore he opposed the motion of the hon. member because its object was calculated to produce rather than prevent a quarrel. The hon. member then went oh to speak of the Company's debt—his willingness to relieve this Province of any share of the burden —and his desire to aid the inhabitants of this Province in acquiring land from the natives. He (the speaker) could only regard these admissions— to use a common expression—as " sprats to catch salmon.'' It was true that the imposition of the Company's debt was a grievance, and the offer of relief was tempting. But this grievance, if otherwise unavoidable, was but of a temporary character. The debt once paid, the grievance would cease. But if the motion were attained, under existing circumstances, the effect would be to hand over the political privileges and interests of this province to the majority of this house, at the head of which majority stood the honourable member for the Hutt, and this would be a grievance not so easily got rid of. Better therefore to endure, if need be, a temporary evil than submit to a greater that would be (permanent. The hon. member next proceeded to explain his views by directing our attention to the working of Eesponsible Government in the British Islands. His illustration was peculiarly unhappy. With great dexterity he referred to the operation of this principle on the interests of Scotland, leaving us to infer that the relative position of this Province of the colony was analagousto that of Scotland to England. But he had forgotten his former admissions respecting the importance of this Province. His figure must therefore be reversed, Auckland being the England, and the Southern Provinces the Scotland of the colony. What then did this illustration amount to ? And if even the analogy of his illustration were admitted, did not the dissatisfaction at present prevailing in Scotland prove that his argument was weak? He had indeed endeavoured to gloss over this discrepancy in his reasoning, by describing the agitation as more sentimental than real. But he (Mr. F.), though born in England, was of Scottish extraction, and he firmly believed that this agitation was the result of injury, and it would not cease until Scotland's wrongs had been acknowledged and remedied. The hon. member had asked if, when called upon, the Eepresentatives of this Province could not select from their number one or more possessing not only the confidence of the house but of the Province at large, who might be equal to the task of a share in the' administration. This question opened up a view of the case which had not been considered. It had already been asserted that in a numerical point

of view, this Province was not adequately represented, and he, (Mr. Forsaith), would ask hon. members if they had not discovered that the" representation was inadequate in other respects?' He would guard himself against the supposition of disrespect towards his colleagues he included himself in the assertion—and he maintained that they did not fitly represent either the wealth, the standing, or the talent of the Province. And this was another argument against the motion of the honourable member for the Hutt. It would be unjust to the constituencies, not of this Province only, but of the colony, to introduce so unexpectedly the principle of Responsible Government. There were many leading men in this Province who from the first considered the constitution of this house —to use the phrase of the hon. member for the Hutt—a great " sham," who refused to accept a seat in it on that account. But if the constituencies had known that it would be probable, or even possible, for their representatives to be called to a share in the administration, would they not have been more careful in the selection of their men ? It was possible that if the constituencies had been aware of this, neither himself nor the hon; member for the Hutt would have occupied a seat in the house. The honourable member for the Hutt had also touched very delicately the question of the removal of the seat of Government. He admitted that it was a question, not decidedonly postponed. He himself thought it should be central. In reply to this, it might be asked if London were the central or the chief city of England ? But what availed it to say the question was postponed ? Was there any doubt which way it would be decided after the hon. member and his majority had succeeded in getting the administration into their hands ? The honourable member had asked what the Representatives of Auckland wanted. Did they want the advantage of spending what little money honourable members from the other Provinces brought with them to the seat of Government ? He had been answered that we wanted nothing but what belonged to us. Would the honourable member but be content with what was justly his due, without aspiring to more, we should be satisfied. Such in substance were the hon. member's explanations of the effect of Responsible Government on the interests of this Province. He might consider them sufficiently clear ; yet to his (Mr. Forsaith's) mind they neither sufficed to answer the question which had been propounded, nor to commend the expediency of supporting the immediate introduction of Responsible Government. He had not sympathised with those who predicted that the house would inevitably prove a failure. He accepted a seat in it because, seeing that it had the power to make such alterations in the Constitution as were necessary, he believed that it might be made instrumental in promoting a community of feeling between the Provinces, that it might be the means of gradually eradicating that spirit of rivalry, and those jealousies and animosities which had too long prevailed—•' in short, that it might lead to the realization of the idea so happily expressed by the honourable member for Otago—a New Zealand nationality. But the course which the majority of that house were now pursuing compelled him to think that these auticipations would never be realised, and he begged them to remember that there was a very close connexion between the idea of separation that had already been broached, and the issue of the present discussion. If honourable members were determined to adopt a course which must exclude the Province of Auckland from a due share of power and privilege, there would be no alternative—the cry of Separation must be raised. Mr. Cutxen said—Sir, in rising to express my views on this occasion, I shall not claim the indulgence of the house on the score of'diffidence, for I feel the subject before the house to be one on which it is the duty of every member of the Assembly to express his opinions ; but. Sir, after the many able and eloquent speeches delivered by hon. members in the course of the debate, I do feel diffident, the more especially after the full and lucid demonstration of the subject by the hon, member for the Hutt, with whom it has been a constant study, and with whom the developement oi Responsible Government and the attainment of constitutional freedom in the British colonies has been a darling object for many yeavs, and who will no doubt consider with myself the carrying out of these principles iv this country

to be an adequate reward for a lifetime of toil and labour. Sir, lam surprised after the arguments which have been used to find that some hon. members have yet a doubt as to the wisdom and practicability of the introduction of Responsible Government into this country. I cannot conceive that state of mind which would admit of the adoption of the principle .that the people of a civilised community, having the right to regulate and manage their own affairs in the home country, but who having traversed the seas in accordance with the dictates of Providence to people the world, and yet would deny them the exercise of those 'privileges for which their ancestors-fougHt and 'bled. Still less ican I conceive this state of mind when I reflect that those men who emigrate are necessarily the most enterprising, the most energetic, and most thinking of their race. But, Sir, I shall not attempt to shew the advantages to be derived from the introduction of Responsible Government, for that has been already ably done. Neither shall I accept the challenge of the hon. member for the Northern Division to play a game at " buffet the bear." I shall rather as far as my feeble powers will allow, endeavour to show the disadvantages which will arise if Responsible Government be withheld, and in doing so, I shall confine myself to matters within my own knowledge and to the effect it will have upon Otago. It is perhaps unnecessary for me to state that the Province from which I have the honour to be returned is situate, and the constituency "which I have the honour to represent, reside at the southern extremity of the middle island; that the difficulty of communication with the seat of government has been so great, that to my knowledge during the whole of the period since the settlement of Otago, some six years, there has been no means of direct communication except the occasion of the arrival of the government brig, when my colleagues and myself embraced the opportunity of coming to Auckland ; that the journey occupied upwards of eight weeks, and this, too, in the 19th century. Missiles in the shape of petitions and remonstrances had been thrown at the General Government from time to time. Some had reached their destination, some had never been heard of, and others are probably still on their way. The .question as to the time of the arrival at the seat of government, reminds me of those interesting calculations of how long it would take for a cannon ball fired from the sun at the creation of the world to reach the earth, excepting that the latter calculation is a matter of mathematical certainty, whilst the other is merely problematical. I am aware that with the introduction of steam this state of matters will not continue, but in all probability Otago in point of time will still continue to be at a considerable distance from the seat of government, which will have a very serious effect upon the course of provincial legislation, unless a Responsible Government is adopted ; for if after laws have been passed by the Province, they were to be disallowed by an irresponsible executive, on the head and tail principle, so graphically described by the hon. member for Christchurch, it will be impossible for me as secretary of the Province, which I have the honour to be, or for my colleague in the Executive Council, to recommend measures to the Provincial Council for adoption or to the Superintendent for his assent The effect will be most mischievous if many of the laws passed by the Provinces be disallowed after having been for a time in force, as the question will "not arise on principles, but whether such a law was law at a certain day or hour, and the Statute book of the Province will become such a mass of confusion as to be utterly unintelligible. Some hon. members might be "inclined to believe from the very courteous manner in which every suggestion made had been responded to by his Excellency the Officer administering the Government, and from the moderation which had been displayed by the house, notwithstanding their representing a people who had been so long deprived of their rights; I say, Sir, some honourable members may be induced from these circumstances to believe that it is possible to carry on the business of this Assembly without Responsible Government. I will assume that such is the case although Ido not believe so. Well then, Sir, in all probability we should proceed to legislate on two subjects which his Excellency in his speech pn the opening of the Assembly recommended tor our consideration. The waste lands of the

Crown would be handed over to the administration of the Provinces, and an act declaring all revenues raised under ordinances passed by former legislatures should be considered as revenues raised under an act of .the General Assembly would be passed. But whilst we are sailing without the ballast of Responsible Government before a fair wind, a storm may come ; a frigate might arrive, bringing us a new Governor, whose opinions we cannot anticipate. He might be a gentleman who had acquired his education for the responsible position of governing a colony by ordering a dozen lashes to a sailor for not ascending or descending a rope with sufficient jrapidity, or he might have been crammed at the colonial office, and acquired his first lesson from the select report of the Privy Council, quoted by the honourable member for the Northern Division. With such a Governor no doubt a collision would soon take place, there would be petitions and remonstrances, criminations and recrimination, and a stoppage of the supplies. By a clause of the Constitution Act, the whole of the Revenue failing appropriation by the General Assembly, would fall into the hands of the Provincial Council. They would grasp at any possible means of power, and the people finding that the proceedings of this house were brought to a dead stand would support them in every endeavour to stretch the law to its utmost limits. The object of men's ambition would be power in the Provincial rather than in the General Government. The best men would no longer be returned to the House of Eepresentatives which would fall into comparative disrespect. I believe, Sir, had Guy Faux actually applied the match to the train beneath the British House of Commons, he would not more effectually have dispersed that Assembly than the refusal of Responsible Government will disperse this Assembly. And the event which so many hon. members are desirous of averting, the sepaiution of the country into six weak and insignificant states, instead of becoming one great country, would inevitably take place. Probably the Executive Government would attempt by the means of the civil list and other funds at its disposal, to purchase influence; a course which would be followed by the other side, and when corruption was introduced, it would be impossible to say to where it would extend.— We should have a renewal of the old system of packing measures, we should have the making a road to JVir. Brown's private property, and a grant of a Judge's salary in the same act, and the Executive must either consent to the private job with the public necessity, or reject them both. It has been said where are the men? I believe, Sir, that will be no difficulty with our countrymen; the occasion has ever brought the men, and I believe it will do so now. One hon. gentleman has said there must be two hostile parties before Responsible Government can be introduced. I would ask, Sir, can hon. gentlemen sincerely believe that such a state of things would be advantageous for the introduction of a new system ? I say. Sir, looking at the moderation displayed by this Assembly, and the courteous consideration of our wishes by his Excellency, this is the most auspicious moment for the introduction of Responsible Government that may ever occur. But I will briefly recur to an element in this matter which has not been alluded to by hon. members. The constituency which I have the honour to represent is an educated one ; it would be difficult to find amongst it a man who cannot read and write, they are as capable of understanding this questiou as their representatives. They are a stubborn people, and were never known to yield a point upon which, they had a conscientious scruple, not even, Sir, at the point of the bayonet. There cannot be peace for a Government with such a people without responsible Government; that system under which they and I feel that a community of the Anglo-Saxon race can alone be satisfactorily, efficiently, and harmoniously governed. (Cheers.) Mr. Picard said, that had the subject under debate been less important, he might have been content to give a silent vote, when he had considered the full examination which every part of it had received from hon. members who had previously addressed the house. He had never felt any doubt either as to the general principle under discussion, or to its being desirable that it should be introduced at the present time into this colony. One reason which had led him to arrive at this conclusion was, that they were asking for nothing but what formed part of the consti-

tution of the mother country, and it was his belief that any number of Englishmen, however small, in any part of the world, were entitled to every privilege of Englishmen. Another reason was, that he believed that representative institutions, unaccompanied by a responsible executive, were a mockery and a sham, a body to which the life blood was wanting ; —a machine deprived of its most important parts,— He was at a loss to imagine how they would overcome the inconvenience wbjch would result from hon. members having io prepare Bills themselves and carry them ttiro.ugh the house. As an instance he had found by inquiry that several hon. gentlemen were preparing measures identical with those on which he was himself, engaged. How different would be the result were the Government represented in that house. He would proceed to notice, though briefly, some of the objections which had arisen during the debate. It had been asserted that it would be impossible to find men, or at any rate men. of sufficient wealth and standing to take office. He was persuaded that when the time came the men would not be wanting, and asserted that not wealth and standing, but education, intellect, and fitness for the conduct of public affairs, formed the qualifications for office. The absence of party had also been objected to by the hon. member for the Northern Division. This he regarded as a most favourable circumstance. He was confident that never would ministers meet with such patience, forbearance, and consideration, as would be shewn whoever might take office at that juncture. With respect to the failure of representative institutions among people not of the Anglo-Saxon race, he believed one chief cause was, the want of a responsible Executive, because the old bureauocracy still remained to thwart all their efforts; he would instance Belgium, where such responsibility existed, as the only state remaining unshaken amidst the throes of Europe, save their beloved native land. The presence of the native inhabitants had also been urged against the introduction of this principle. Mr. Forsaith —" No, no." Mr. Pigaed—The natives in the districts he represented did not, he believed, share these fears, but had taken great interest in the introduction of their new institutions, and had put themselves in communication with one of the representatives of the district in the Provincial Council on a subject in which they were interested. He did hope that that cry of the natives might be set at rest for ever. It was always used to stifle any measure for the benefit of the European inhabitants. The hon. member for the Northern division had also stated that Auckland was insufficiently represented in that Council. Allow this to be so ; it was not without remedy by reference to the Officer Administering the Government. He would take the opportunity to say, that he felt the letter received from his Excellency in the course of that debate as a good augury, and to express his sense of the manner in which he had met their views on every occasion. To him it was due that they were in that house to-day. As to the fears expressed by some hon, members that the interests of Auckland might be sacrificed in that Assembly, it was his firm belief that Eesponsible Government would tend to prevent injury to that or any particular Province. He reminded them that there were such things as public opinion and a public press to prevent the interests of a-minority being trodden down by a majority. He had rejoiced that the first meeting- of that Assembly had been called at Auckland, because he believed that as they knew each other better, an end would be put to these petty jealousies. He was assured that these feelings were as uncalled for as between Yorkshire and Hampshire. He did hope that as their numbers increased, and Province stretched out its anus to Province, an end would be put to these miserable, these unwarrantable differences. He spoke for himself and the other members for the Nelson Province, that they felt that they were members of the General Assembly, bound to defend the rights not of a particular Province, but of the colony and people of New Zealaad. Lastly, he would call on those who might be disposed to view with fear and doubt what they might consider the introduction of a new principle, to examine if their doubts and fears were well founded. He reminded them that they were erecting an edifice not for the present only, but for future generations, and he called upon all to aid in laying its foundations well. He felt no doubt that if this

■ system of Representative and Responsible Government were carried out as he trusted it would he,-—the leeming thousands who would hereafter fill these glorious lands would look up to it as their chief glory and "hold fast to them •as their chief good(cheers). Mr. O'Neill said that while he was still willing to support the'principle contained in the lion, member's motion, he would strenuously object to an opening up of the question of the change of capital. That question ought not surely to be introduced now, especially as it had been admitted by the' honourable member himself that this Province formed the half of the entire colony, and excelled all the;others in every advantage to make it desirable for the occupation of an abounding population. Indeed, in every other respect the superiority of Auckland over the other Provinces could not he denied by any—and if England's forty colonies were searched, where could another district be found possessing the great advantages which Auckland enjoys in her two most excellent harbours alona '? Mr. Clifford said, that the subject under discussion had been handled in so masterly a manner by previous speakers, and so little could now be said without reiterating previous argu- j ments, that he should not have thought it necessary to rise had the debate been one of less importance than it was. "But though it was thus unnecessary for him to discuss the practicability or theory of Responsible Government, he considered he should not be fulfilling his ■ duty to his constituents, if he did not declare to the house their earnest and longing desire to have it immediately and practically brought : into operation. There was neither the time nor had he the ability to detail with full justice the reasons they had for this wish. Those reasons were contained in the history of New' Zealan d; —in the general tenor of the acts of an irre- * sponsible Government since the landing of the first settlers in Port Nicholson ; in hopes, in wishes, and desires frustrated ; in remonstrances disregarded ; in fact, in being subject to all the evils of despotism instead of living * under the institutions of our native land. He had heard it asserted both inland out of that house that New Zealand was not ripe for Responsible Government, that we had not the men, and that the time was not yet fitting. -He had heard the same absurdities stated in the ■ south, and he had been in a position to see such assertions completely refuted when the experiment was tried. He had witnessed the first meeting of the Wellington Provincial Council; - and having been chosen there to-fill the same high office that this house had done him the honour to confer upon him, he had the opportunity noticing everything that occurred. They met and looked at each other as hon. members did here, - without an acknowledged organ of Government in the Council, and con- - sequently incapable of useful action. An Ex- - ecutive Bill was brought in, declaring there should be a Secretary, a Treasurer, and a Solicitor. That Bill passed, and the next day a gentleman got up in his place and announced that the Superintendent had appointed him Provincial Secretary, while another informed ' the Council that he had accepted the office of Provincial Solicitor, and moreover that they * considered themselves responsible for every act of Government, and only held their offices so long as they could retain the confidence of a majority in that Council.. This was a good beginning, and things began to work smoothly. But now there was another side to look at. An hon. friend of his had just stated that a great difficulty in working Responsible Government would be the constant change of ministry, by reason of factious opposition obtaining adverse majorities. He begged to differ from that hon. member, and to remind him that there was also a very heavy responsibility on the shoulders of - the minority or opposition-side of. the house. He would illustrate it. In the Wellington Council, it could hardly be said there were two parties, but there was on many occasions a very - strong opposition, and on one or two questions of minor importance it was evident that, had a division been pressed, the ministry would have been in a minority, and the consequence would have been a resignation of their office. But - this would not have suited the leaders of the opposition, for though there were men among them perfectly capable of taking the places of the minority, still, as they did not differ in ge- ! neral policy, and could only have carried out ' the same line.as their -predecessors, they could •mot have.justified to the public the stoppage of

public business incidental to a change of ministry ; and knowing the men with whom they -had to deal would not be played the fool with, they feared to push matters to extremity ; and thus it will always be, —the fear of responsibility, of the press, and of public opinion, will always keep an opposition from factiously opposing' the minister of the day. 'And now having, he thought, satisfactorily proved that Responsible Government had really been carried out in Wellington, he would ask if it could not be done in Auckland, and he fancied the answer from lion, members in the North would be, —We can do in Auckland whatever can be accomplished in Wellington ; and if it can be carried out, not only in Wellington, but, also, as we have heard described in the smallest, as regards population, of New Zealand's Provinces, Otago, surely it can be carried out in the General Assembly. Are the same men inefficient here, who worked there ? He waited a reply. It had been said that Responsible Government could not be • carried on without two parties in that house, and that such parties did not exist. He could only say, he believed that no measure could be carried through that house at present without party differences; but supposingit were otherwise, he would most heartily congratulate that minister who could so far gain the confidence of the house-as to receive its entire support, and he should also at the same time be able to congratulate the country —for from the debates that had already occurred, it was quite evident' that a minister'must indeed have the good of his country at heart, who could gain the entire support of the members •of that house. He himself would be glad to witness such a result. As to the assertion that no men could be got, it seemed to be supposed that there were some talismanic power in the Royal patent, which no sooner descended on the fortunate head of an official gentleman, then it was endowed with such wonderful powers of governing his fellowmen, as could not be approached by any less favoured individual. But he confessed that comparing the experience we have had of officials in New Zealand, from Governors downwards, with the talent displayed by numbers of gentlemen in that house, he began to doubt the official doctrine, and to think that,-without much difficulty, we could'find men among : ourselves quite as capable of governing us as any that have preceded them. That we shall find such men he had no doubt. He believed there was hardly a member in that house, who had not come there at a very .great inconvenience to himself, and thai nothing but a very high sense of public duty would have brought them together. Was it then to be supposed that, after having gone so far to secure a principle and to gain an end, no one could be found to go one step further at the request of his country to secure the ultimate triumph of that cause for which we had been so long aiid so ardently struggling. The supposition was absurd; once let Responsible Government be within our reach, and he would answer for it, men would be found to carry it into fair and full operation. He would not detain the house much longer, but he could not help declaring that this demand for Responsible Government was not the cry of a faction—was not merely the request of members of that house—but it was the demand of a united people, who having suffered so much from irresponsible Government, and having struggled for years ro obtain the right of managing their own affairs,-would not, now they saw that right within their grasp, be turned back from it without serious consequences ensuing. He was holding out no threat Revolution had been alluded to; in the stricter sense, nothing so ridiculous or absurd could have crossed the mind of any hon. member ; but he much feared if this reed shared the fate of every other reed the people had been induced to lean upon, and broke, that members would return to their provinces, and those provinces, having now the Government in their own hands, would take such steps to secure their own interests, as would prevent the Union of New Zealand in one great -State taking place for years to come. But he believed of this there was no danger.; he believed that the gallant Officer Administering the Government, having-so far departed from the policy of his predecessor as to have called together the General Assembly, would aot leave unfinished the work he had begun, and he (Mr. Clifford^ felt that a guarantee had been afforded of our fitness for Responsible Government, in the ability, the temper, and the mode-

ration that had hitherto characterised the pro ceedings of that houourable house. (Hear" hear.) v l> On the motion of Mr. Carleton the Com. mittee adjourned until Monday at 11 o'clock." [To be continued in our next.}