THURSDAY, JULY 21.

Hawera & Normanby Star, Volume II, Issue 133, 23 July 1881, Page 3

THURSDAY, JULY 21.

The debate on the no-confidence motion was resumed.

Mr. Russell spoke in favor of the Government. The effect of the motion, if earned, would be to bring into office a class of men whose avowed policy was to restore Provincialism.

Mr. Seymour recognised in the proposals of the Government an attempt to give finality in the assistance to be rendered to local bodies towards their works.

Mr. Taiaroa condemned the rating of native land.

Mr. Bunny strongly condemned the amendment, and supported the Government. He thought a change of Ministry at the present time would be inopportune and disastrous, and he could not give a vote likely to so result.

Mr. Weston thought the amendment did not bring the question of the past administration of the Ministry into question on the direct issue it raised. He could not vot" 1 for it : at the same time he could not approve of the present proposals of the Government.

Mr. Hall strongly condemned the remarks made by Sir George Grey about the Judges, and which had been made worse by his explanation. He denied there was any public demand for a change in their governing institutions. All that was desired was for the assistance necessary to enable existing institutions satisfactorily to perform the duties devolving on them. As long as this House retained, as it should do, the sole power of legislation, it would be impossible to relieve it of dealing with local questions. He defended the existing local bodies, as distributing the work of local government amongst the people, and producing excellent results. Sir G. Grey's proposal was to establish not nine but twenty provinces. If the people wanted a system to work out their own destinies in local government, the present system afforded the opportunity for extension and improvement towards "that end. The Government desired to decentralise as far as the possibly

could, but would strenuously resist the cutting up the colony into a number of petty public and useless states. They proposed to extend and improve the County Councils and Eoad Boards system, to give them increased powers by delegation and otherwise, and to do away with the necessity for frequent reference to Wellington. They also proposed to give those bodies reasonable pecuniary assistance, to enable those bodies to perform their functions. Such were the Government proposals. They did not pretend that they were perfect, and they would in Committee gladly accept any amendments calculated to make them more perfect. If Mr. Ormond had only wanted these proposals to be relegated to the constituencies, he should have worded his motion in a less hostile fashion. Unless Government possessed a majority in the House they would not endeavor to carry a Redistribution Bill through. In conclusion, he felt it his unpleasant duty to say that Mr. Ormoud had acted very wrongly in moving the amendment without giving notice to the Government, amongst whose s-upporters he had up till then been numbered. Mr. Ormond's desertion, without notice, deserved the most severe condemnation. Whatever the result of the division was, he could look back to the administration of the last two years with satisfaction, and with gratitude to the generous support given them by their party, which had enabled the Go- . vernment to achieve whatever good results had attended their administration.

Sir George Grej' heartily commiserated the position of Ministers, who had reached the end of their tether. They deserved their fall, however, for they had ever allowed circumstances to guide their policy, instead of bj r their policy creating circumstances. He denied that he was ever insane enough to propose to restore Provincialism. In national life, there was no going back. What he and his friends wanted was to take a step in advance, and create something better than the old provincial institutions. He hated the present system of looA government, with its plural voting — a system devised by a certain class of men to save their ill-gotten wealth. He felt degraded, living under such a system. He wanted to give men equal rights, and as in America, to give them the power of making their own laws, and determining the form of their own institutions. The people of every district in the colony were as capable of doing this, as that House was. Again, elected judges were no novelty. In England, many corporations elected their recorders. He would have more confidence in a judge elected by the people, than in one appointed by that House. His plan of government would reduce taxation to a minimum, give all men "equal rights, and open rewards for legitimate ambition, to energy, ability, and merit. He would have all the Property Tax returns made public, and the legal and other professions thrown open. He called on all who loved their country, and wished to give New Zealand free institutions, to vote for the amendment.

Mr. Saunders said that when he spoke in condemnation of Government proposals, he had very little idea of what was to follow. He had, before speaking, tried privately to get the Government to withdraw or alter those proposals, but they would not, budge. He defended Mr. Ormond from the personal attacks made on him by Messrs. Wakefield and Whitaker, who, he said, had also summarily dismissed him from their party. He, however, would not take his dismissal. He could not vote for the amendment, as its effect might be to restore Sir G. Grey and Mr. Sheehan to office. If they and Mr. Macandrew were out of the way, a true Liberal Ministry might be formed, in the place of the existing coalition, but he would never do anything which might have the effect of restoring them to office,

Mr. Hursthouse moved the adjournof the debate. The House rose at 12.50.