CLEARING UP.

Hawke's Bay Tribune, Volume I, Issue 242, 29 September 1911, Page 5

CLEARING UP.

MR. MASSES AND THE

MINISTRY. a A NOTABLE DERATE. [BY TET.EGU.WH SI’EIIAI.. > (Own (. 'or res porn lei It.) Wellington. Sept. 2*. One of the most interesting discussions that has rn-r taken pia< e occupied the attention of the Hou-e for over an hour this afternoon. ‘T want to ask the member ’or Bruce a question. *aid ■"sir Josen.i Ward. Mr. Alien." continued Sir •Joseph, was reporter! in tne South land Times" on the tJfita May last, to have made the following statement : Mr. Allen declared that if Mr. Massey hail wanted to be a member of the Government he could have been there years ago. but tie had stood by his party and remained faithful to his principle*. ami that was why they believed in and supported him. The sein-t object of the proposal marie to Mr. Massey was by a junction of the Government and the Opposition Io light the laibour Party, but the Oppos.tion would not do a dirty thing Hk<that.’ ’’ Sir Joseph wanted Mr. Allen to state when ami where an offer of any sort or kind v.a* made, and hr challenged him to answer the point before hr (Str Joseph) deal, with Ihr subject. Mr. Allen: What is the question : Sir Joseph : 1 have read the state made in the ' .Southland Times," and I ask the hon. gentleman to state when, what he allege s, occurred. Mr. Alien: My answer is that the statement is approximately corTt'ct There til*** sonic woriiu m it that I don’t think I said, something about a secret. I repeat them hen . the bulk of those word*. I >ay no more. " What was it you said . asked a member. ' Mr. Allen: I sav negotiations were going on, and the hon. member sitting alongside me could be in the Ministry if he liked. Sir Joseph asked if the hon. member would state when the negotiations.: were going on. Mr. Allen: "I will say no more." T will say something more.” said Sir Joseph, "and I will say that if that statement was made outside the House there is only one word I would use in regard to it. 1 would say that it was absolutely false. .A nrember: And the man who made it was.

"I am to say. continued Sir Joseph, "th.t I have never at any time since I Lnr oevn in the Government either ua ie or authorised anv hotly el- - : • -nak” a proposal that Mr. ''lassr.. >;■ „ny other member of the (>, p -■ should join the Ministr'- ’ !>•■ >: "über of the House as ’.r <’•' ' • ..ware who had made c ■. : -tat was the member for Bf. »’■ • i'. making it he had im; ned .•mluct of a most ili'Loii'-..bl<- leter in my official position. It Mr. Allen’s statement was true I ought r not to hold my position, and if it was untrue I question very much whether the hon. gentleman could hold his position." Continuing Sir Joseph said : "He proposed to tell the House what he believed was responsible for this maligning. Prior to the la-t general election there were sixty members on the Government side, sixteen members of the Opposition, and four Independents. Towards the end of the session the Minister for Railways asked him to meet two gentlemen who were not supjHirtcrs of the Government up to now. He had not referred to the matter because he regarded it is confidential, but as the member for Bruce had referred to it when he (Sir Joseph) was out of the country, he thought he wa* now justified in making reference to it. His principle reason for referring to the matter was the statement marie by Mr. Allen to a reporter on the "Christehureh Press,” and reported in that ’paper on the 27th inst.. as follows : "Mr. Allen says he is still perfectly satisfied that negotiation had been opened, and that if Mr. Massey had cared to accept it. he would have had a s -at in the Ministry. Naturally. he added, these negotiations could have been inspired l>y only one person, the Prime Minister himself.” Mr. Alien: That I u<-i.-r said. Sir Joseph (continuing to read), "from the Prime Minister s own remarks when he dealt with the mat ter in the House, there was evidence i that something had been going on. To the Prime Minister’s description of h imself as a gross misrepresent er. Mr. Alien referird with a smile, and dismis.ed the subject with tie- remark that it b merelv the usual < J»»v eminent clap-trap. Mr. Alb’ii: There i* one sentence there I did not. say. that the matter had been inspired by the Prime Minister. I did not say that. Sir Joseph Ward : The hon. gen- ■ tieman does not impute to me that 1 inspired it Mr. Allen: No. I don't. Mr. Ma-sto : Th’.- *■ - . Sir Joseph then went on to point out that the only man in ti e Go vrronirnt who could make a projto*al to any boot to join Ihe Govern metit was tin - Prime Minister, and now the hon. gentleman said he did not impute to him that he rnsph-ed the proposal. Since he had seen what was reported m tne ■ Gh r is; church Press” of the 27th in*t.. he had communicated with the Hon. J. A- Miller on the subject. He had never, he added. had a i|!-i'l'*u>l' with anybody about tighting ti.” workers. Tr.at was one <>r t lie hinds circulated against him fur pofit'-ai: purposes. S'-r Joseph then proceed cd to read the i orrespomieuee which had taken plain between him self and tt ’ H*‘ii J A. Millai the -nb.r . • 111 I's Ictirr to Ml Vl'bi i . I. the fa. I I I:-Il \’i Millar hao mi r• Imd him to two titlmirn ptmi to rm- List «ial ebetion and ’bat tluv ll’-ol

in thi- interest of the country etiali

i I 3>:i between the two parties .and a-ked him if he would im et Mr. ' Mas-ey and ili'cuss the matter crinI fidentially. In reedy, the Hon. Mr. . Miliar wrote that upon ’nearing what ithe two gentlemen had to say Sir | Joseph Ward absoluteh declined to I discuss the matter witii them, or t > I entertain for a moment the suggesi t i< m. i That the two parties should coal I esre. continued Sir Joseph, was never entertained for a moment by .the Government on any occasion. Ifo was once passing through a He was mu e passing through a tow n land a gentleman called upon him ; ami mentioned the position of the Opposition Partv. and suggested . thev would not do anything against the workers, but there was a possibility of an extreme section exercising the minds of the people of New Zealand, and asked whether in his opinion it was desirable that : there should lie an effort to form a strong party against sudi a movement. That gentleman asked his opin ion as to a pos.-ible < oalition. He gave that gentlemtin the same answer as he gave subsequently to the two i gentlemen who waited upon him. ! He would go further and say that no member of the Opposition Party t could say that he had ever discussed .any such idea with him. There : was not a member of the Liberal ; Party who could say that he had I ever suggested or discussed a proi po-al of the kind. If lie had done : what Lad been suggest ’<[ the only eo-trse open to him would have been ! to call the party together to tell ! them that hr was not prepared to | carry on. and that he must resign his i position. The hon. gentleman at i th” Load of the Opposition never I sent a letter on the subject. j Sir Joseph went on to point o;;; [ that if he had done what h id been I suggested he would have been f?l-e I to the whole of his colleagues and ■ to his party im-ide and outside the House. No one could ever say he had | -uggested i.r dene anything cf the ! kind. No <ae could say he hail eves ■been a party ic. political intrigue. | and he never asked his party to cn | gage in intrigue, and if he had I. ne ; -ach a thing <as h.ad bet n sugg'- u l | he would not have been t’.ble to rc- | tain the leadership of the Libe.rd I Party fr.r an hour. "Jg 1 go >ur of I the Liberal Party any lime.” he added. "I shall go out without intri- , guing t<, do an improp'er thing.’’ ( Sir Joseph B ard resumed his seat i amid applause from the Government 1 benches.

"After what lias taken place I think I am entitled to a personal explanation." said Mr. Massey. "I can say that 1 have never been connected with a political or party intrigue in my life, and never intend to be. I have had one or tvvu opportunities of intriguing, but 1 i:-.vc taken no advantage of them.”

Mr. Massey went on to say that prior to the last general elections p.’TSsme "a- brought tbear i.j m him. not only in Welling: m. but fr< m < ’hristchurch. Dunedin, and Auckland, to induce him ic join the Government Party. "Who by asked a member. "1 have the correspondence." replied Mr. Massey. "Give it to us.” urged a member. "I haven’t got it here, it is in Auckland.” replied the Ltatler :;f tlie O| iposition. Sir Joseph Ward : Does it suggest that that was d :ne bv me Mr. Masiey : Certainly not : I want t< do him the justice if «ay mg that 1 was not appr-'aelicd by the Irn. gctth man <r any (‘.her member of the Ministry. I say again that extrime piTs-urc wa- brought t : 'ica - up'.a me to induce nr and tlm iiicnibcis of the Of pcsitmn tn join t*ic G<.v ernmeut --t hat pressure wn:exerted fr< in all over the Dcmitii-m.

ami I have letters in my pceressi m fr< in an <:rganis it i>n existing all over New Zealand, trying, in cvriy possible way. to tret me l-> j .in the Ministry fr-ni the pcr-o::il point <>f view atul frni the point of view of the e: untrv a-- a «h<*!e.” A m< mbi r : "The F.trmc’ s I ni >n.” .Mr. Ma*.-ev went <.;i to it. t'r.'t the prop .'-aI irt’s :t verv -m :< "itc. and it came from people some of whom were prominent ; :tpp<:rlcr*- oi’ the partv in y--wcr. "I t< ok time to consider the proposal. My in-

: ti;n ls were ageinst it from Ihe first.” continued Mr. Massev. "It was mt the iir.-t -iggethu hmi b'-en ni'idr ti> me. Six er ; even yr-irs :go ■>. similar s’iggc *-t iott nri-ie. but tin* same am> =!|.; <> pre-sure v a-. n< t l>r. light to bca:. I took lime ;i. n-'dt *■ ;1 -■ pr d. ami I and ini friemi- ram<- t the ■ : -u u that it vti.* i’cl m th<- inierests ■ f the e: tintry «,f the partv that 1 smith! d-* wbi! : uggc’.l <■ I. I ir.-’.ve them to under:-)and ilcit f vveidd nt r g«: cut cf pt litres (Il in have the men I I’ivc vvirked with ft :• s.. man;. > r sirs pas!. Mr. Alb n said lie In-lit veil tb *t v. I it im han’ - i tl bad l>t i-n p>ov *1 that alt,i m ■:>. Sounds ' f <li:-sc:it came it’ v:ri’*a. tones from G< v e rnmeut menil >crs. Mr Allen: I said mgeiiaii n-- I.’. >• bet a g< jig < 11. M Lai. ■ < *i:' ! (tii* vllx ) : "Mill upon my vvttrd.

Mr. .Mb n remarked ;i :! mmy mere :i>ati tv.<: nirii eame t-> the Learlt r '*f t lie < u’• in regard ;<> tlie I oahlK ti. He bail never *•".■.i that the Prime Min-’cr <•',■>)gin. it < 1 :Ec m u tiatiit;’-. Lui ’ I. e‘ !•> n pri veil that afterm :i •!■•; uego,':itions bail gem* -n and lie bcli-vel that Mr. Mns*<>-could have received a [>lace in tire Ministty e he i*.:'l t-arcii tn aeeei't it. ■ That is not c-*rre<-teernmen: -.1 t* 11- Joseph. Various int» n gat ions < ame fr-.ti M mister lai*; *. Mr. Allen (facing liis in:.err.mt >;•.-> retorted: "1 am sorry that <fv*n; iiirnt members look ti n<:nt'< :-t,*tlde. Ti >*v I, r.k unci mfertible. Mr. I.auret’* *:i : li.u cell t *: li.-umv.”

Mr. Ai’en -.ichidt'd inui ■’ 'icrl.* ■ ati.'n that lie had nothing > o ,b.’v. . Wi at i iad S.T I •>:» : oublic platform had been pr-ivcd t->

,e> t bug.* extent . \l 1 < !i i i> i >'|\• ! ■ f I Mr. f l -hl I l -k> * I M - B*| *‘ ;K* ’ d r In ’ . f ’1 - I’l it

The reply was that the discussion di pended on the indulgence <:f Ih< Heme. If any member objected tin debate would have to cease.

”1 object.” said Mr. Fisher, and bus applied the closure.