EVENING SITTING.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume XXI, Issue 5500, 1 October 1879, Page 3

EVENING SITTING.

The House resumed at 7.30\ NO-CONPIDENCfa DEBATE. Mr Hall, in moving the ametldmerit of which he had given notice, congratulated the mover and seconder of the address, and expressed a hope that other' speakers in the debate would follow the moderate tone those two members had taken. He denied that the Government supporters represented a larger number of the inhabitants Jof the colony than did the Opposition,- and quoted a , number of instance's to" nro've his denial. The last House of Re'pr'eseritaitiveS had declared by a large majority that the Government did not possess its confidence, and the successors of that House- were bound at the, earliest date to take up that question. His first charge against the Government was that they' had totally faiied in carrying out .their promises. They had promised to reduce the cost of the civil service materially. Sir George Grey had said he could do it by £100,000, whereas it had increased the first year £8000, and the next year £15,000. Then again Ministers' personal proceedings had been conducted in a most extravagant style. • They had brought down a proposal to reduce their own salaries, and it was opposed by their own Supporters ; the mover and seconder of that opposition being punished by being made justices of the peace, and the proposal was not again brought down. Then their extravagance in connection with the Governirient steamers was something notorious. Much of that expense might have been saved by Ministers travelling in private steamers. The expenditure in native affairs had likewise been moat extravagant, and yet the position of those affairs was not as good as it had been two years ago. The present Native Minister had promised great things when he got into office. He (Mr Hall) admitted that they were not what could have been wished when Mr Sheehan took office, but still he maintained that had Sir Donald M'Lean been spared, things would have been in a different state Great prospects had been held out by the Government from the intervention of the great chief Rewi, but they had not heard anything as to the result of that intervention, and he could only conclude that it had come to naught. The state of matters on the West Coast was next referred to. It had been alleged that the present Government were not to. blame for that unsatisfactory state of affairs, but that allegation was only what might have' been expected in view of the failure of the efforts of the Government. He contended, however, that there was a state of discontent and of lawlessness which did not exist when they took office. Regarding the question of finance, it was well known that a great deficiency existed. He would not blame the Government for that deficiency, but what he did blame them for was that they had formed far too high an estimate of certain branches of revenue. In asking the House to authorise a heav.y loan a full and detailed statement of the financial affairs of the colony should have been furnished, whereas there had been no financial statement at all. Mr Hall next alluded to the charge that the Government had tampered with the newspaper Press —had take a away the advertisements from an old established paper in Wellington and given them to one established not more than 18 months, and of which members of the Government were proprietors or shareholders. A similar course had been pursued towards the papers in Christchurch. That was a most unfair procedure, and was calculated to defeat the very object of advertising altogether. The same thing had been done towards the Press all over the colony. He next alluded to the special wire arrangement, in consequence of which one paper in Christchurch got the telegraphic service for £300, while another paper had to pay as much as £1200. Mr Hall then spoke of the appointment of Mr Luckie, remarking that civil servants were not as a rule well paid, and when a comparatively well paid situation was vacant it was the duty of the Government to advance some of their old servants, and not to go outside the service and appoint a person on the plea solely of the political support he had rendered. The neglect of the Government in judicial matters was next referred to, and also what Mr Hall designated as the scandalous conduct of the Government in neglecting to provide proper accomodation for, lunatics. The Premier was in a very . great measure responsible for the present state of things. He took the sole control of matters into his hands, and would not allow his colleagues the discretion they were entitled to exercise. Mr Hall instanced - s number of the acts of the Premier, sucl] as that ' which compelled the late Colonial Treasurer to resign, and went on to say that the point resolvec itself into whether they were to have personal' or constitutional gove nment. The manner in which the Governmeni attempted to influence the late elections was mentioned, Mr Hall remarking thai if ever there was a time when those elec tions should have been left to the unprejudiced judgment of the electors it was at the last general election, whereas two Government steamers ware put in requisition and special trains set in motion for the purpose of conveying Ministers to various parts of the colony to influence the elections. Had the Opposition had the same opportunities for rushing about, there could be no doubt but that Ministers would have stood as private members on the floor of the House. Then it was a well-known fact that the telegraphic system had been largely employed in the elections. The House did not know the full extent to which the telegraph had been so utilised, but a question put the other day had elicited the reply that a telegram of the kind had not been paid for, but that it would be paid for. Mr Hall then alluded to the manner in which the commencing of public works in various districts was put to account by Ministers for electioneering purposes, and the system adopted by the Premier of influencing the elections in several electorates by his personal visits and exhortations. With all those influences brought to bear upon the constituencies, Mr Hall asked, what chance was there left for Opposition candidates ? Mr Hall went on to urge that if Ministers took upon themselves to use the Government steamers for their own private purposes they might just as well use other Government property for the same purposes. Years ago it had been laid down in the Imperial Parliament that an abuse of that kind was a very serious one indeed, and he hoped the House would be prepared to affirm that doctrine. Mr Hall then proceeded to review the various points of the Government policy. Triennial Parliaments, he said, appeared to be the wish of the colony. Hiß own idea was that four years would in the first instaece have been much better, still he would accept triennial Parliaments, seeing that it was the wish of the colony. A redistribution of seats he also agreed with. He felt that a re-adjustment of taxation was also required. But there were many other social reforms that were also urgently required. It reflected no credit on the Government that the charitable question was not adjusted on a better basis. A still greater thing was that the laws should be honestly and / energetically administered, .and.he did not

believe that that Would be done by 'the present Government. It was for tliat reason he now moved the amendment Sir George Grey said he had expected quite a different^' speech from the lion, member. The matters that had been referred to were trifling, and altogether unworthy of the great things the Opposition claimed for the colony in view of a change of Miiiisti'yi He had been charged with the maladministration of the affairs of the colony^ bttt it was the members of the Opposition who 1 had been guilty of the .maladministration of the laws of the colony. He would ask what tracts of country had Ministers acquired for themselves, or what, country had they gridirohecl for their own purposes 1 Sir George then referred to the matter of the proposed reduction of Ministers' salaries, characterising the charge of the two gentlemen who had opposed the reduction being rewarded by being m'adta Justices of the Pearae as absurd and a moat unworthy insinuation. "With respect to the Hinemoa, he reminded the House that the peculiarity of the formation of the country required the services of a steamer*, and that he was entitled to use those services for making himself acquainted with the affairs of the colony, and for bringing under the niotiee of the poeple great and important matters affecting their welfare. Ho denied that when Ministers camp into office native affairs were ill a tranquil state. Ho also denied that the Government advertisements given, to newspapers could possibly have influenced the Press. The reason why a written financial statement was not triads' last session was because they were on the et'«f oi a dis-> solution. Ho would like the Citil service to* be appealed to as to whether they had bc(en unfairly treated. He deplored the condition of lunatics in this colony, but he would remind the House that provision for the caro and treatment of lunatics was made by the Provinces,- and when provincial institutions were abolished no adequate provision was made for hifirttiG asylums by the then Government. It had been said that his previous education Unfitted him for the post of Premier, and in. arguing the point he referred to the injustice done to the colony in the matter of the Canterbury runs. In connection with the action he took in that matter he was: quite prepared to know that the squatters' interest would pursue him till he died, and that was practically what they were doing now. He contended that he had acted rightly in the course he took with respect to the Electoral Bill of last year. It had been said that his going about from place to place prevented the electors understanding the real question at issue, but he was convinced, that it had the contrary effect. What the Opposition wanted was to prevent his going about, and so to keep the colony in ignorance of the real state of affairs and of the real point at issue between the Opposition and the Government. New Zealand had had one of the freest constitutions in the world. That constitution was destroyed by the Opposition and their friends. They destroyed it, and were never able to establish anything worthy of it in its place. They diminished the resources of- the country, and burdened it with an enormous debt. In that respect they had been the enemies of their country. The members on the other side of the House all claimed to be Liberals, but the leader of the Opposition had denied that the franchise was the national right of all men. Sir George then went on to deal with the many evils resulting in other countries from a restriction of the franchise. He charged to that restriction the numerous evils under which the mother country suffered, and he averred that the members on the other side of the House would be only too willing to get many of those evils and abuses repeated in this colony. It was a mere mockery for them to claim for themselves the name of Liberals. He defended the Government against the charge of unfairness in the adjustment of the incidence of taxation. He charged the Opposition with the abuse of the land laws, by -which the lands of Canterbury had been gridironed, and they had acquired for themselves and their friends large tracts of country. They were rapidly coming to a state in this colony similar to what existed in Scotland, Ireland, and England, where a few persons held immense tracts of country. The real question now at issue was whether that system should be brought into existence in this country, or a new state of things brought about. It was not a question, as had been alleged, of personal government which was at issue. The real question was the one he had indicated. On his side of the House they cared nothing for the false accusations made against them. They were determined to stand true to the position they had taken up. They sought for something greater, something nobler, something more abiding than the good opinion of those who sought to defraud New Zealand of its birithright. Mr Saunders said that two remarkable speeches had been delivered that night. The one was what he wouid describe as a terrestrial, and the other a celestial speech. One speech had dealt with the business ot the House, while the other had taken them to Babylon and other out of the way places. Mr Saunders described the address in reply as a thoroughly contemptible document. He then proceeded to combat the assertions made bj the Premier, and averred that the Opposition were quite entitled to the designation of Liberals. He maintained that Ministers had gone to the country or a false issue. The real question was whether, the Government as constituted was to be trusted or not, while the question raised by the Premier was as to certain Liberal measures regarding which . there was not the slightest dispute. The young Greyites in the House reminded him much of the young greyhounds lately introduced in Canterbury. At first these animals took all the twists and turns necessary to follow up the hare, but on better acquaintance with the country they refused to follow, those twista and turns, and adopted a more straightforward course. It was the same with the young Greyites. They followed the Premier for a session or so round all twists and turns, but eventually they saw through him and preferred a more straightforward course. The first Napoleon had talked of his young recruits as food for cannon ; Sir George Grey talked about his young recruits as food for gammon. But he (Mr Saunders) looked upon them as the products of gammon. Before long, however, they would see through their leader as clearly as their leader now pretended to see through them. It was with the affairs of New Zealand they should deal, and not, as the Premier had attempted, direct their attention to the affairs of other countries, and the great abuses to which those other countries were subjected. He (Mr Saunders) had inquired into the Canterbury gridironing system about which so much had been said, and he found that the quantity of country so gridironed did not exceed 5000 acres out of all the land now sold. The gridironing system, after all, did not amount to very much. In reply to the Premier's statement that the Press were not likely to be influenced by Government advertisements, he would remind the House that the papers receiving those advertisements had held up the Government to the admiration of the colony. That,he considered, was a complete answer tn the Premier's remarks about the insignificance of these advertisements. Forty years ago the Premier was on the best possible terms with the squatters, although now he now talked about them as being determined to hunt him to death. More than that, the Premier exercised his influence to give those squatters the best of the lands and the largest blocks. Mr Saunders then referred to the Electoral I Bill of last year, which he said came back from the Legislative Council

in precisely - the same state in which it had been framed by the Government, so that if there was anything wrong in what ihe Council did, the same offence lay at the door of the Government. The Premier talked about his desire to enlighten the electors on the occasion of the late elections, but what were the facts of the case 1 Wherever the Premier^ turned up no one wa§ allowed to say a word in opposition to the views he had given oat? so that in reality the Government steamer had been employed to disseminate a onesided view. In support of that statement he would remind the House that the Premier voted for the honorarium last session, while he stated in an election speech at Canterbury that he had not done so, and that when the question came in he walked out of the House. At 11.50 an adiournment was moved by Mr Speight till the following day at 2.30, and agreed to.