HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 13, Issue 1062, 2 July 1869, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

THURSDAY, JUNE.?-.

HOMOS' OP WANT OF CONFIDENCE—AD-

JOURNED DEBATE.-

(From the.'Undopondent.")

The debate on Mr. Fox's mptiop of -want of confidence in . the , . Ministry : was re* sumed. ..,..'.." . _ ' ;. Mr. Williamson, said the. eolpuy had never been placed in such difficulties aslt was now — o-fficulties .arising. out of the disastrous and unnecessary war .of iß6o*; Those who supported this motion had no intention of questioning the ability, ad«; ministrative power, and services of the hon. member at the head of the Government. The hon. member had done great service to the colony, brit he had much to answer for in not continuing his originally straightforward policy, : The colony, since 1860, had gradually been growing, from; bad to worse, «nd„had now reached ' such; a state that it was shunned by the inhabitants ofthe earth. Before the wa.» *hipsi were constantly arriy-ng"m ; Auckland"with emigrants ; but by the last English* mail he received a.letter frorii -one of the' Canadian agenis Cor the province; of Auckland, stating. that, the war completely frightened intending j-mig.aat-* / 33je, House had now. £o consider 'whAt raustibadone to get tfie pburi^ o-rtofit* pre&et_&j position. He v .did not * blame the -hdas* member at the,, head of the Governmenfe for having brought about ."the ; wttr, "-m'ce^ lie had not done so. 'He did nbf-iay^air immediate remedy for tbe present state of j things could be.appHed, though he thought it was possibles but. the, hon. riterdb-r -at the head of theAlovernriient was : riot the man to apply the remedy, since he was wedded to one idea, that the natives must be put down with the strong hand.; and the hog, gentleman must be removed from, office. Were the ; Ministry to. say . that; they alone were able, -to administer rifttivb; affairs, and that the House must adopt their policy ; if.;. the members of^ theMinistry considered themselves heayerihorn statesmen and the only gentlemen capable of settling the native difficulties^ the colony did Jiofe, share, that opinion. The Colonial Secretary had! said, that ie would long ago have resigned, had he, seen other men capable of forming a Mmi-trjv Such a declaration struck, at the; root ;of responsible government.. If the House was willing to permit of. the hon. gentlemanremainingin office or riot as he pleased^ - they had bettor make him Dictator/ Thp North would, lio t be offended, if the, South refused to pay.for the continuance of the war; if the war-makers wore, discharged,; the war would come to an end. ;' Sbme' money would however, bb ". required" 0 to complete 4he.i pacifiicatipn^of rthie riativ.fr *, but the administration bf affairs must be entrusted to capable hands v We had not' succeeded in subjugating the "Maories, although we had> been endeavoring to "do 'So-" for the last ; ten years ; and wb cduld nofe expect to succeed if we^ tried" during the* whole term of bur natural live-v s oome-' other method must be tried. If the -policy '• of handing the management of native ~a£V' fairs oyer ' to ; ithe. Superintendents ' ' : -ws¥ , e-' carriedout, the provinces would riot 'require money, for war purposes but would neeA to opettup rpads throughput the island/ to unite the interests of the natives with ours ; arid this the Superintendents would do by.combip^d action.; ' The Superinton- ■ dents might safely be. entrusted with the work which wsulq devolve upon thieri-^if this policy ,were carried out. Expressions had fallen frpm ; the hon. member, for the; Bay of Islands. in,movjrig liis, amendment _ which" were treasonable, and shou.lffhpj£;be; allowed. He -had said that, if sgmeth|hi£ Was riot done that he. wished to he done, he should not be surprised^ the l^«apiih%. rose and s^aeAthe Custbuis. ,. This" -was' fli', very suggestive remark. .He (Mr; Williamson) fully believed in the, .loyalty of the Ngapuhis; but it was. unwise. to awaken thoughts of another character in their' mind by such-remarks as theie. This was not a question of personal confidence. He had personal friends 'in the; Mudstryj but the remedy they ha^'J'diig. been 'applying had failed, and a change' must take place in the GAvernmeritpf tub country. . He called izppn ./the Hoiile to withhold, frem jthe Ministry 'the iripney! which was necessary .to enable them "to carry on' a fruitless war. The ho_u gentleman at the: head ofthe Government Had threatened the South that, if.they refused to pay fo*,a continuance of tbe ;^ar, VTei vision "of the . arrangement ,' of 1856 must take place ; but this was not the .feeling of the _VO_*b. . StilL the. South' mnsl. assist^ the l-Forth, and it was, its v interest ;to. do so. v: lf hostilities were stopped; with.iti j goldfields and an increased . population, there was every reaion to believe. that the North 'Island would, in . a few • yeiars, be exceedingly vahiabl.e to the South. ".He belitet^ the :hori ; member 'for^Rsu'gitikei could form a -Mi-dstry which wpi»|d receive the support of the Hpuse "arid the country ; and the House ought to fnit a Stop to such a .deplorable state of things as now existed*, by the removal of the present Government from office. (Cheers). ' Ciies of V Question" and -V Pivid-,," . ; -, Mr. Kelly ; saiA that, being' unper rio , pledge, to his constituents member j tii a pprty, he-felt in*bme.doub.toatli'!B pre- j stint "occasion owing to the course^gkeri by the. Hon. member for Eangitjk^l hi, uot j enunciating his policy; He felt qpnyjnce,d $_£ cdlonywbuid no.fcget-IjnneriaJ^OOps bxcept it paid the full cost of iheirjiservi? ces, arid Only upon such term* v^i, > yould maWthern practically Useless^ T-heua tires Wbtdd-Bever be;coßcj-.eredyuntU l wbh|^ a thoroughly* bfg&nised force,': capahl^of following them into the bush? -, - IJut -a .much sm_Uer force then" we riow.J^d^^rbperiy i trained/ would answer .ibe^.purpgse s Ho should -recpiire more ,4nform^©^,-frOrii the ' Opposition as tp their pjbucy^pfefore lie joined them. - Hp; -supnhTj v^to 4 ;fbr 'the amendment, reserving to^ himself, the ' -ight, after hearing the. Ppjiri^n^/pf the ' mover of the vote of want pf .pp^|de^ce^ of voting or not for the motion as .hesibught fit.. He did not believe ihe ion could form a Ministry; which would com-j mand a working majority; the! only way' out ofthe present state, of affairs wiat he could see was a coalition Ministry. • Mr;^px, iri rising to reply,;. was re-> ceived %ith loud cheers. He, said the*

tori, member for the Bay of Islands had ] apparently thrown his amendment on the tabid merely for the purpose of giyirig the \ Government an opportunity- of .repeating . their speeches -ran opportunity whiph they discreetly bad not usedr-rand of turning aside the House from. -expressing an opinion on a question put in the clearest possible manner. . Fortunately,.. the hon. .... member's 'artifice had failed,. -'and there was a prospect oftho debate being brpught to an earlier conclusion than was; expected. ** Mr. Pox then proceeded to comi4-ut on tflte speech of the Cblbriial Secretary. The Staple" argument Used by the Colonial Sec- ' jretary arid Postmaster General against his motion would be that he (Mr. Fox) would be, called upon to form a Ministry, and his elitical antecedents disqualified him from ing* placed in charge of "the affairs, of t^ colony. He should have, felt much mribyed fit these dtpfessions of nopinion on '■ $$7vo^mdfb -specially on>tho part of • , the Postmagtcr General* -whom „he^ Sad periQßallyiQtroduced into -political li(e—

"haflr'Tfc riot -ho-ri ■; that .be ,?#t certain this •was,npta genuine expression of the opinion of ihose : hbi'i. members, . but was a mere political ruse. i'There was no member of thai;, I . House whom they would rather see on the Treasury benches than himself. -,Thsy were not afraid of his- sitting on the Treasury benches, but of theinseives sitting bri the Opposition benches. (Laughter j They would riot mind his sitting by ithe^r, side. * Upon returning from his ■Htegira tothe Sea- of ' Galilee (laughter), whjich had furnished much amusement to the;smoli wits of the House, he had not landed in Wellington two hours before he received a long letter frorii the. late Post-, mastbr General inviting' him to desert the party which he had always been connected with, and to join the Ministry. That offer was repeated' by the Colonial Secretary two days afterwards. Was it candid then for these hon. members to now come down to .the House and. say. that his political antecedents' disqualified hint from conducting the affairs ofthe country ? • J!e had^beeh -charged overtly during the <!c* bate; arid implied by the Colonial Secretary, with wastefully expending .the Throe Million Loan. Now the actual amount of the 1 Three Million Loan expended by the Eot-Whitaker Ministry while in office was -about £i ,200,000, which was spent strictly, with the resolution bf the §_OUse; the remainder bf the loan was. spent c^-theWeldandsubpessiv'eMinistew. The: Gblbi-ialSeeretaryhadasgertedthathe (Mr, -' *Fok) had introduced the Runanga system . "Ifthorigthe natives, and had caused thereby infinite mischief. The Runanga system was existenpe amongst the "fiitt'iyeff; but. Mr*"Fenton endeavored to use it 1 -,* a basis for' training, the natives" fiftp- aTtridwledge of !Eurppe_'ri instittitidns. ' "MfcPenton's system was supported by the , C/blbiial Secretary himself,' who was partly -■b-pottsible fpr any 'mischiefs that. may havb- arfs-eri from it. Mr. Vox. then explained the «ause of the former political disagreement .between himself and Mr. i^i'Lean. But were they, because they disagreed nine years ago, not to act tonow that, they agreed on great prinoipl'es ? It Was not logical on the part bf the Colonial Secretary to argue that jthey ought not'to do so. It- was what had been rightly called the arrogance — it was , insufferable self-conceit— of the Ministry :to say there was not sufficient talent' ori the opposite side of , the House tb form a Government,: and that if they were themselves 1 turned but of office, Chaos must <com£ again. The members of the Minis!try had nb more aptitude for office than a . month's experience would give any clerk. '. Their ienure of office proved they were unable to govern, the. country. '. There was abundance of on the. Opposition side ofthe House capable of t'akinjg office. If •he were called upon to form a Ministry, he should take office riot with feelings of ambition or of desire, but like a man going to execution, because he would have to take over all the -burthens accumulated by the'mismanagemerifc ofthe present Govern- ; merit. Mr. Fox proceeded to comment on Mr Curtis's, speech. Severalanswersmight heaven to the complaint that he had not ventilated ariypolicy. One was that he did ndt'Chpose to do so. He had a rjijght to come, fqrwar&as a member for Rangitikeidistricfc, impugn the conduct of the Ministry, and aik the House to express an opinion' on it. Nbthing was more common than a vote of want of confidence in a Ministry to be proposed, without a counter policy being enunciated. In fact, it 'would be rather ii-regular and unconstitutional for two .policies' tb be laid before. the House in this manner. No doubt it would have suited the Government for- him to declare a policy ; . but. he stood in the capacity, of prosecutor while the Ministry were on .tHeir. trial. He laid a policy upon the table of the House last session,*and the result was that the .Ministry turned the tables upon- him and. pufc him upon his trjal' He was not tb-be caught. so again; But the House knew what the general' policy of the Opposition was. He was in no way connected with the press, but believeU that out of the .eighty newspapers said to be published in N"ew Zealand the larger part of them were a credit to the country.. If these, attacks on the press were, continued, they would be making an eneriiy .of what was a necessary aid in the working of free institutions. The reason of this raid against the press was that it did 'nofc support ' the . present Ministry. The defence, made by the late PostmasterGeneral of the conduct of the Government in the case of Mr. M'Lean merely . aggravated the injustice that had been done. He' "utterly ignored the main ingredient ofthe injustice-- that the Government did not inform Mx. M'Lean of their intention of removing from his dis^ '.trict Ropata and the, Ngatiporpus. The. Government had never yet justified this neglect, which would in itself be sufficient to exculpate Mf. McLean from, blame for what he might afterwards have done of Wrong. But. he did not act wrongly, arid his dismissal would reflect lasting digrace upon the Government. Though it would be a great disappointment to him to leave unnoticed the speeches of several hon. members, yet looking at the fact that the Speaker would shortly leave the chair [in; ten minutes], he should probably be con-; suiting the. convenience of hon. members, by immediately calling for a division." (Cheers.) : The amendment was put and negatived. The original motion was then put and declared to be carried. Mr. Stafford called for a division, with the result already given in the Herald. '••The result was .received with immense -heering. The House adjourned at 6.30 p.m.?' '.