PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 11, Issue 856, 6 July 1867, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Tuesday, July 2. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present, all the members. Loan Act. Mr. Buchanan, ' pursuant to notice, asked — Whether tbe Government intend to introduce » new Loan Act, or amend the existing one of 1863, to meet the altered condition ia wbioh tbe negotiation for money stands. — He did not know whether or not the government would think it necessary to come to this Council at all, in the matter of the Loan Act, as they evidently depended on the action, or supposed action, of the General Government, to have the loan placed in a position to be negociated. He put the question in this shape, as Mr. Murdoch, in the correspondence before the Council, specifically stated certain alterations in the Loan Act to be necessary, and these could not be effected except through the Council. Mr. M'Lban said that the government did not propose to ask for any alteration, at least; pendiug the result of the legislation proposed to be submitted to the General Assembly. Land Reoemie and Public Works. Lieut-Colonel Whitmobb,, pursuant to notice, moved—That this Counoil is of opinion that a considerable proportion of all suras received for land, should be devoted to tho construction of roads, or other permanent improvements, to facilitate access to tho port from such laud ; that no lands to which no available dray road has been made, and whioh are not accessible by water, should be subject to road rate; that while the Council recognizes the liability of the land fund to contribute towards tbe expenses of the necessary main roads, and Provincial establishments and building 3in the town, whioh are of general utility . to the Province, it desires to record its opinion that the sums received for land in

one dtatriot should never be used for the im« provement of another which does not lie between it and the capital of the Province ; — And, lastly, that in districts where there ia no possibility of constructing a road to the. capital town, the sums received by the land fund from suoh districts should be applied, as far as possible, so as to afford any facilities of communication to settlers which may be practicable, ~*Ho had hoped, when giving notice of this resolution, that before it came on, the • return moved for by the member for ISTapier Country (Mr. Tiffen) would be on the table. A reference to that return would have shewn that in many districts which had largely' contributed to the revenue, ! very little indeed had been expended. The principle of the resolution was so clear and universally admitted that he hoped it | would be affirmed by the Council. True, much of the land fund was now gone, but much still remained, which, with careful management, would be available for neglected districts, such as theKereru, Wairoa, and others. The lastpart referred more particularly to the Wairoa, which could not have communication with Napier by road except at the cost of such a sum as was not likely to be in the hands of the government. But if it had a little assistance towards facilitating sea transport, it would be amply satisfied. Mr. Tiffjen seoonded the motion. Many places which had largely .contributed to the land revenue, were to this day without any means of access to the port. Mr. M'Lban said that the government ooncurred fully in the terms ot the resolution, and, in the event of Land Boards be* ing established by law, the principle laid down would no doubt be carried out. In reality the difficulty was that they had not the land revenue to spend, If there had been, the Government would have been quite prepared to deal in the manner proposed with it. The motion was then put and agreed to. Papers; Mr. M'Lean laid on the table the following papers : — Report of Inspector of Slaughter Houses, Report of Inspector of Sheep for the Northern Distrlot. . Report of Inspector of Sheep for the Southern District. Return relative to Lifeboat, Cession to the General Government of Land at Afahia. Mr. M'Lean, pursuant to notice, moved— The Oounoil, "having perused the correspondence between the Superintendent and the General Government relating to the cession to the latter of 19,000 acres of Provincial lands, situated at the Mania, for purposes which appear to be for the interest of the colony, are of opinion that the arrangement proposed by the Superintendent, under which the said 19,000 aores of land at the Mania should be disposed of to the General Govern* ment for the sum of £5,700, should be oarried out, and requests the Superintendent to take the necessary steps to complete the transaction. — It was deemed essential to the preservation of peace that a section of the native prisoners taken at Wairba, and who for the most part came originally from Waikare Moana, should be removed from that vicinity — which, being close to the Uriwera country, was not a proper place for them— and located in some spot where they would be under the surveillance of a loyal chief. The land referred to in the resolution was approved by the General Government for the purpose, and the proposed arangement, if ratified by the Council, would be carried out. He laid on the table a map showing the position and shape of the block intenaed to be sold, for the information of members. Major Lambeet said that from the correspondence with reference to this subject laid on the table, it did not appear that the General Government had any intention of giving money for this land. [He then read the memorandum of Mr. Richmond, iv which that gentleman suggested the exchange, for this one, of the recently confiscated Petane block.] . It did not appear that the Colonial Secretary had any idea of paying money for this land, and under these circumstances he did not see how the amount could be set down as an asset. He thought it more like an exchange or transfer. He should like this discrepancy explained. Mr, M'Lean said that, subsequently to the date of that memorandum, he had been to Wellington, and had entered into an understanding with the General Go« vernment that the amount named in the motion should be paid for the land, and that one-half of the sum should at once be placed against the liabilities of the province. In the interest of the province it was virtually a cash transaction. The Petane block was still in an unsettled state and could form no part of the arrangement. Mr. Buchanan said that the motion was an extraordinary one. It was an attempt to set aside the law by a resolution. In the Provincial Council in 1865, some specific resolutions were passed, stating the mode and the rates at which this land had to be sold, subject to the legislation . of the General Assembly. An Act was passed in the Assembly, legalizing these resolutions, which was reserved tor and received her M'ajesty's assent. After the Act had gone through all these necessary formalities it was quite absurd for the Couucil to attempt to set it aside by a resolution. Surely .the facts he had mentioned must have escaped the notice of the Government. In these resolutions the upset price of the land was fixed at £1 per acre. It was fixed at that, and it didn't matter who was the purchaser. The regulations could be altered by Act of the Assembly, but not by resolution of the Provincial Council. He had said when this land, which they now proposed to sell at 6s. an acre, was purchased with, the money for which the place was now starving, that it would be an unprofitable speculation, and his words had been verified. If political reasons prompted this sale, he would not oppose it, especially as ho thought the land was not worth more ; but he decidedly objected to the resolution in its present form. Mr. Oemond said that the action pointed out by the member who had just spoken was precisely what the government intended to do. They would take the resolution of the Council as a basis upon which to ask the Assembly to alter the Act. As to what had been said of the unproductiveness of the lands in the north, it was well known that, from these lands, very large sums had been received by the Provincial Treasurer, .and would be again received upon the Waste Lands Act coming into force. The return called for by Mr. Tiffen would, when laid iipon the table, show what force there was in what he had said. Lieut.-Colonel Whitmobe said that he had just heard that the Act with reference to leasing these lands was not proclaimed. On Tuesday he had been informed, in answer to a question, that nearly all the preliminary steps for leasing runs under its provisions, nad been taken, and that the land would be ready for lease in five or six weeks. There was an apparent contradic-" tion in this, which he would like to have explained. j-ir. Osmond said the Government were iv error in stating that the Act was in force, but they had been certainly under the impression that it was so. When he and his colleague, the Superintendent, had

been iniihe Assembly; i^,|ajrt had heas a despatch reiuij s^3nuo^fiatjwrj||| Majesty's ! assent yptdd'^be^^^^w^wifli"^ Act, arid &eysnatuially ftssu^B^ttM i ifi|i| had been proclaimed imme^i^l^^^f^f: In looking over the -" Gazette/: -JipmyepiiM to find the date of the ffoclamatioi, th^yl^ found that the- Act had never bjeeffsro^ claimed, and probably: wbuld hot bie t nd^{v4 till they again represen^d thiß:ina|fceri^^ the Assembly. The; mistake';bn tfie partr.^? of the government was one itHaCit "irsM^ very easy to fall into. „■*■/ ::"h\^ : ; -%, ■-£. £.■_.£ "}. Mr. Xanneb moved ah additional clause :':' by way of amendment, to :the eSfect that ;V a select committee should be appointed '"to": ; prepare a draft Act for the Assembly. \ \ Mr. Weston seconded #he amendment. Mr. Buchanan cordially agreed wi% : .-j. the amendment. He was;quite wilting r to ;; assent to the proposed reauotioia in #ie t price of the land from £1 to 6s per acre, \ and thought that it should be maae gene- ; ral but not that a resolution of this Jrind v should be passed by a side wind. There was no reason why the land in. the northern district of the province should, bej • charged for at a Wgher.ratetb^that-m^/ the southern, or that^ the; -public should;;-;' have to pay more for it than the Greneral " Government. The G-o vernment had taken l^ ■; credit for the high price a small portion bf '-'■;. this land had brought, but it was; sold ua- . der extraordinary ciroumstancesV and after a course of unexampled and costly puffery. The action of the Government in regard to ' these lands had contributed Very greatly to the existing depression. r / . Lieufc.-Cqlonel Whitmobe could not at all agree with the last speaker, that after , the present inhabitants of Wairoa had paid at the/ rate of £1 per acre for their, land, *■ the price should oe reduced to 6s. It would be very hard for them, after paving so high a price for their land, to have its value reduced to less than a third of what ; they had given. , .'..; The amended motion was then passed. ' Petane Road. Mr. Pabsons, pursuant to notice, asked His Honor the Superintendent— Whether it is the intention of the Government to make about one mile and a half of . the road leading to Napier to Petane,. commonly called the Petane Beach roatf, —This was the direct, and indeed; only road to Petane, the newly confiscated block, the Wairoa, and other important districts— representing more than a million :. of acres. It was the only road near the port which remained to this day in its original state of nature. The agricultural settlers at Petane were placed at great disadvantage in having, through want of a road, to pay 30a a ton for the conveyance of their produce and supplies. Mr. M'Lean said thathe had referred this question to the Provincial Engineer,: who reported that to do justice to the road would entail an enormous expense upon the province,— equal probably Ito one-Half of the available funds for public works. He was fully aware of the importance of the road, but this was entirely a question ■, of means, and he would be wrong in hold* ing out any hope of this work being performed. But the best time to bring this subject forward would be when the question of public works and improvements was under consideration in committee of supply. , ■ Thistle Bill. Mr. Tiffen moved the second reading !of the Thistles Bill. ' „ ';7 . ■ , : Mr. Wood seconded the motion." _' .. •:; v Mr. Caelyon said that, if the bill were . - allowed to pass a second reading unbp- .V posed, the Council would be pledged to affirm its principle. His constituents were opposed to it in toto, so far as they were concerned, and he must protest against being supposed to give it his support. If a Thistle J3ill was wanted for certain defined boundaries, then he had no objection to offer ; he only wanted to see that it did not affect his constituency. As to the bill itself, there was something so ' extraordinary in the construction, and such wonderful ingenuity displayed in the lanv guage of the bill, that it was a perfect puzzle. There was, however, one clause in the bill which was properly and grammatically expressed, and in the terms usual in bills —a clause to which he had no objection to offer, — and that was the " 12th, which named the short title of the. : Bill. (Laughter.) He did not see anything humorous m it. Then the title of the bill was repeated in the preamble, •which, was unnecessary. In the first . clause it was said, "The Superintendent shall, by proclamation, declare this Act," but it did not say where or in what manner the proclamation should be made. In the second clause it spoke of " the owners of the owners or occupiers of land." Now there should be a distinct interpretation of the term "owners or occupiers. It might mean owners in fee simple, leaseholders,£h.ouseholders, or others. There was no such term known in law as " owners of land," and its ambiguity would lead to almost endless litigation. In the same clause he read, "Always provided that the operation of this Act shall extend . \ to a distance of five chains beyond such \ proclaimed boundaries. The term " provided always" was only used in qualification of the previous matter, and it was altogether incorrect to use it in the case of an extension of the meaning. In clause* 3 there was a penalty provided for " any person who shall neglect to eradicate or destroy any noxious thistles growing upon land fa his occupation. This was repeated in clause 6. Why could not the penalties have all been placed together. In clause 8 the appointment of Inspectors of Thistles was provided for, but it did not state by whom they were to be paid. They should be . paid by the persons for whose benefit the Act 'was drawn up. The sheep-owners paid the Inspectors of Sheep, and it was only right that they should. This was a vital principle, and provision should be made in the clause as to how the Inspectors should be paid. He decidedly objected to clause 7, which provided— lf you can't catch an absentee, let the Inspector destroy his thistles, and pay the expense I out of the ordinary revenue. This was a very cool proposition. He (Mr. C.) would go to England to-morr,ow if the Government would pay all his expenses out of the ordinary revenue. Who was to give the Superintendent power to use the ordinary revenue in this manner P He would not move an amendment, as he had personally no objection to the principle of the bill. His constituents were opposed to it, and he objected specially to the clause which made it possible that the conditions of the bill might be inflicted on them. v Mr. Tannee would go farther than his colleague ; he objected to the principle of the bill. He felt certain the Council would not pass that Thistle Aot; and he did not feel at all sure that it would pass any Thistle Act. If, however, it was the i wish of the Council that something of the [ sort should be done, he would propose that ' the country should for the purpose be di? | vided into cultivated and uncultivated .. land, and that on application being made to the Superintendent hj two thirds of the ... occupiers of land in any cultivated district, he shall, by proclamation, declared. that the Act shall come into operation ;. within suoh district, and that the Super- . V intendent be guided by the aforesaid" :sv majority of residents in denning the boundaries for the operation b£ the:; Act. Some people considered ;the bill ; was brought forward rather too latcs,;

but he had no hesitation in saying that any number of Acts or any number of . penalties would not have arrested the progress of the thistle. This was sufficiently evidenced by the manner in which they had. over-run the country. Wairarapa was the first place where they were noticed in any considerable quantity, and from" ' thence they had travelled along the coast till they liad gone right through this Province. They might set a boundary— a kind of Rubicon—over which the thistles were not to pass, but they could not by any means prevent the seeds flying over their boundary. If the Act had passed the CouricU.fiye years ago, it would by this, time have been found to be inoperative. In the bill now before the house ne could not understand the Ist and 2nd clauses taken in connection with each other. The Ist provided that the Act should be declared by the Superintendent to come in force within particular districts, while the 2nd made a permissive bill of it. He objected entirely to clause 1, which made it obligatory on certain distriots without the consent of the residents. The penalties provided by clause 3 extended from 5s to 30s per day that thistles were permitted to grow on any land. When the large * area of land covered witlL thistles in the Province was taken into consideration, it would. be seen how impracticable this proposition was. " Its first ijefiect would be entirely to prevent occupation or subdivision of land. A man might wish to take a blook of land for a small farm ; he would not be able to clear or cultivate it all the first year ;— would not the penalty of 30s a day sap Ms very means P (Hear, hear.) Small fanners would be very shy of taking land when they knew that at any moment they might be subjected to so heavy a penalty. -He could not agree with the 4th. clause, which provided that any person whose land adjoined a road or river ped should keep it clear of thistles. His . idea was that this should be the Inspector's duty. For the Inspector they should have a good useful working man, who would occupy his time in eradicating the thistles, . and not riding about the country to lay informations. It was certainly unjust that the man whose land adjoined a river bed should be forced to keep it clear; while his friend behind him, who derived equal benefit from the operations, should share neither trouble or expense. As the bill now stood, a m^n's entire energies might have to be devoted to the task of clearing an extensive river bed adjoining his farm. Tho bill did n t state by whom the Inspector should be paid, but his friend who had last spoken had referred to that point. By the clause providing that the. cost of clearing, absentees' land should be borne by the ordinary revenue, the Superintendent was rendered liable for any amount of expense. The Council would certainly never sanction this. An absentee's block, of about 40 acres, well covered with thistles, might very probably remain unoccupied foi* several years. By that time the debt incurred by the yearly process of clearing would have become so enormous as to far exceed the value of the land, which might then remain for eyer unclaimed and unoccupied. Again, the expense which the Government rendered itself liable to by the 9th. olause was perfectly preposterous. The waste lands of the Crown, and public reserves within proclaimed districts, were to be cleared from money appropriated by the Provincial Council. He would refer to the Pukahu Block, which came within the meaning of the clause, and which was covered with thistles. The Council would never find the Government adequate means to keep, this block clear. He would suggest . that the distinction made between agricultural and unagricultural land being so ambiguous, should be altered to cultivated and uncultivated lands. There were uncultivated agricultural lands on the plains where it was impossible to destroy thistles, they be- , ing subjected to a terrific influence from the adjoining hills. Any traveller by the . Te Aute road must have seen the ground covered with the down, and seen it flying like a snow-storm over the country. He had heard practical men say that the best eradicator of thistles was English grass. It choked them, and grew all the more luxuriantly where they had been. In Wairarapa and Auokland there were magnificent pasture grounds in parts of the country which/ at no very remote period had been covered with thistles— those having t)Ben driven backinto small isolatedpatches. He would draw attention to a letter by Mr. Nairn, a man who was qualified to judge,' in a local paper, in which he stated his belief that the thistle will very soon die out, leaving the ground in a better and richer condition than it found it. He considered that no boundaries should be fixed by.the Government, but left to the inhabitants of proclaimed districts. He would not pledge himself to support the amendment lie nad proposed, as, if any member should propose that the bill be done away with altogether, he would support that in preference, Mr. Wood said that the bill which had been pulled to pieces by the member for Te Aute (Mr. Carlyon) happened to be nearly a transcript of the Canterbury Act. However, he was quite prepared to admit the force of many of the objections made to the bill, and was willing that, in matters of detail, large amendments should be made in committee. The necessity ofprotecting agricultural districts from the Thistle nuisance had been strongly urged upon him by the section of his constituents who resided in and about the township of Havelock. They complained much of the impossibility of carrying on cultivation if adjoining proprietors, more particularly absentee proprietors and speculators, were allowea to let their lands become a nursery for thistles. The same, at one time at least, was the feeling at Meanee. Some time ago he was present at a large meeting of the electors of Meanee at which the member for Wairoa (Colonel Whitmore) and other gentlemen now in the room were present, and the feeling of the meeting was strongly in favor of a. Thistle Act. Without some protection in the direction indicated by this Act, it was considered that agriculture was a sheer impossibility. The principle of the bill could not be gainsayed; and with regard to its provisions, the mover and himself were quite ready to receive and act upon any suggestion that might be offered. He had some idea of . referring the bill to a select committee, should that course seem to meet the approval of members generally. Mr. Obmond said that, on this question, the government as a government would be neutral; and individual members of it would think and vote for themselves. For himself he was favorable to a bill which would give this, protection to any district, two-thirds of the settlers in which a. led for it. ': He would suggest that the bill in its present shape be withdrawn, with the ' view Jeff bringing up another. . Lieut'Colonel Whitmobe said that he tHouglit'that the remarks made upon the . bill by the hon. member for Te Aute had been of great use. He wished, however, to draw tne attention of the Council to one point, wnioh appeared to have been overlooked by the members who had previous- -■-. 'ly spoken. It was, the effect of the passinjg tbJPisucli a bill upon the lands adjacent to; agricultural districts and owned by the -/::.: natives; -He conceived that .as soon as < :^: shis^;b^ "was passed the native owners ; ,f^otii4^> Subject to the same obligations :P. : issj£tQvesssettht:B, for it would be mon- ''■■■; , iiarojtti? w&if>. British-born subject on this L ; : - 6i a;iiyer or fence should be subject

to stringent enactments which did not apply to his fellow subject on the other side, who had the good fortune to be aboriginal native. If this bill passed he hoped that the Government was prepared to enforce it equally on both races. He could not agree with, the other hon. gentleman, also member for Te Aute, who contended that a distinction should be made between cultivated and. uncultivated districts, rather than between agricultural and unagricultural districts. He conceived that uncultivated lands, if they were agricultural, should be even more subject to this Act I than cultivated lands. He also . differed with that hon. gentleman with regard to English grass choking out thistles. He conceived that thistles sometimes ohoked themselves, as he had read was the case in some parts of South America, where Sir F. Head had seen large tracts rendered desolate by the thistle, the same thistle as we have here. Possibly where the thistle exhausts itself it prepares the soil for English grass, and possibly a thick sward of English grass prevents the thistle seed from reaching the soil and taking root, but he had no faith in the destruction of the thistle by means of English grass. He could not see the force of the argument that because the thistle down was wafted from the hills to the plains, that therefore there was no necessity to prevent people from growing thistles in their paddocks. If the down wafted from a distance was examined, not one piece of thistle down in a hundred would be found to have its seed attached, whereas the down from a thistle plant a few yards off would sow large beds of thistle in fallow land. He had attended the meeting alluded to by the hon. member for Havelock, and could testify to the extreme anxiety felt by the Meanee settlers to have an Act of this kind passed this session, and he knew his own constituents were of this mind also. He was not very sanguine himself of the successof the experiment, but it was w.orth trying, and he hoped the Council would enable the agricultural settlers to try it by passing this or an amended bill upon the subject. Major Lambebt objected to the clause which enabled two thirds to coerce one third. A great deal had been said with reference to this Act which should have been deferred till it was considered in committee, and he did not think the Council should lose any more time at present in considering this subject. There were two classes of small farmers in this Province — the one who was simply the small farmer, and the other, very small in number, who was also an agriculturist. He noticed that the latter — the man who understood his work— cared nothing for the thistle. It would not live in land properly cultivated. He might name one with whom he had had some conversation on the subject, and who had taken the same view of the case, — Mr. Knox, who was a practical man, and could be relied on ; and he was not the only one. He understood that Ms Honor had communicated with the Tasmanian Government on I the subject, and he should like to know the result of those enquiries. He. concluded by moving as an amendment that the bill be read that day six months. Mr. M'Lean, in reply to the reference made to him by Major Lambert, said he had heard that many years ago the colony of Tasmania was so overrun with thistles that the inhabitants contemplated abandoning it. He therefore sent to the Government for their Thistle Act and reports of their inspectors, and received for reply that there had been neither acts nor reports for 20 years. The South Australian G-overnment sent two copies of their Act, and the New South Wales Act, he believed, was on its way. Mr. Caelyon said that the Government might have sent to Wellington for information, as they had had two or three Acts and Inspectors, and of one of the latter it was observed that there were more thistles 'growing on his land than on that of anyone else (laughter.) Lieut.-Colonel Whitjioee hoped that this amendment would not be pressed. He thought that the interests of a considerable number of industrious agriculturists, a class peculiarly deserving of consideration and protection of the Council, should meet with great attention. These persons fully believed that this protection was necessary to them, and, as they' were but very slenderly represented in the Council, he hoped that they would be allowed to make the experiment and the bill would not be shunted to another session. He did not pretend that he felt confident that it woula succeed, but it was worth a trial, If it failed^ the Act could be hereafter repealed, and it did not seem to him to be unreasonable for the agriculturists of a district to expect that their Tvishes should be attended to, where all they asked was the sanction of law to the compulsory eradication of a noxious weed, in their own districts. Mr. Tannek would recommend the withdrawal of the bill. It would be quite competent on the part of the member who brought it forward to bring in a smaller and more local Act, to suit his own district. Mr. Wood moved, as a second amendment, that the Bill be referred to a select committee, such committee to consist of Lieut.-Colonel Whitmore, Messrs. Tiffen, Buchanan, Dolbel, Carlypn, Tanner, and the mover. ' Mr. Caeiyon thought it rather too much that the two members for Te Aute should both bo put upon such a committee. Mr. Wood had put the names of both gentlemen on- this committee because they seemed to have some interest to protect in this matter ; but one name could easily be struck off. , Major Lasibekt said that reference had bee"n made to the meeting at Meanee ; but the floods had greatly changed the views of the settlers there, and he really believed that of those who were prepared to support a Thistle Act then, very few indeed wanted one now. His own feeling was that tke Council wanted information, and were not in a position to go on with a Thistle Act before next session. Mr. Tiffen said that the subject was exhausted, and he would only say a few words by way of reply. Much had been said against this bill by new members, and much time wasted by objections which would more properly have been advanced in committee. The Bill itself was little more than the transcript of a Canterbury Act, and there was no reason to suppose that it had not been carefully drawn. The only argument that weighed with him was \ the one advanced by the member for Waipukurau — that, since the floods, the small farmers of his district had materially altered their views. He confessed that this consideration had materially altered his views also— that, in short, he was lukewarm on the subject. At the meeting at Meanee which he attended, public feeling was strongly in favor of a Thistle Act, but ho found that many practical men who spoke in favor of it then had since had occasion to alter their minds, considering it a hopeless case. This was a strong reason why legislation should be postponed till next session, and, after due consideration, he would ask leave to withdraw, the bill. Leave given, and bill withdrawn accordingly. Cattle. Trespass, Mr. Oablyon, pursuant to notice moved— The 2nd reading of the " Cattle Trespass and Impounding Bill."

— He said that no subject affected country settlers more than the one uuon which he proposed to legislate. It atiected men in a humble position of life as much as it did men in a liigher sphere. It also affected the native population ; and it was obvious that, in legislating upon it, the object aimed at should be stated in the fewest possible words and the clearest possible manner. The Acts and amended Acts now in force were extremely faulty, chiefly on account of the extraordinary prolixity of the language used in them, and the extraordinary obscurity in which the most simple thing was wrapped up. In^-his own district there was a perfect outcry against the pro-, sent law, on account of its utter unihtellibility. No one could understand its meaning. This he had tried to remedy j and, | having taken some trouble in the matter, he hoped he had succeeded. There were also some alterations made, but none of very great importance. He had made the distance to which stock intended to be impounded could be driven, 20 miles instead of 60; he had defined clearly the duties of ppundkeeper, and had reduced the public notice required to bo given, from 14 to 21 days ; he had made one year instead of two the limit within which the proceeds of unclaimed stock could be claimed from the Provincial Treasurer; and introduced other minor improvements. Major Lambert seconded the motion for the second reading, which was agreed to, the bill read a second time, and ordered to be committed presently. , Fencing BUI. Mr. Carlyon, pursuant to notice, moved the second reading of the Fencing Bill. . The Cattle Trespass Bill had received at his hands very careful consideration, and he anticipated little opposition to it. This bill had been more hurriedly prepared, and he did not expect it would meet the views of all parties. Indeed it might be said to be thrown out. as a feeler. The present state of the land was very unsatisfactory, the old Act, passed 18 years ago, having been repealed in every province except this one. An important feature in the bill was the establishment of courts of arbitration. The great evil in such Acts was the dificulty in getting at absentees. In cases of cattle trespass there was no difficulty, as you had the stock, but it was different in regard to fencing. It was a great % error to suppose that by the insertion of a certain number* of advertisements you could reach anybody.. Under the old Act, indeed, not an acre of land could be sold to pay a claim for fencing. It was supposed by some that the Non-payment of Eatef Act of 1862 would meet the case, and he had inserted a clause accordingly. But he feared that " rates and other liabilities" could scarcely be construed to coyer a claim for fencing. It was not a question of assessment but of simple debt, and the only certain remedy was for the members for the district to move, from their places in the General Assembly, for such an alteration in the Non-payment of Bates Act as should include fencing charges among the ''other liabilities." Mr. Tiffen mentioned several objections to the proposed Act, which he brought forward now, as, from his position as chairman of committees, he would have no opportunity of speaking afterwards. Ormond said that the object was one of too much importance to be hastily legislated upon, and lie would suggest that the bill be referred to a select committee. At the same time 'the Council was obliged to the member for Te Aute for the very great trouble he had taken. Mr. Caelyon acted upon the suggestion, and obtained leave to withdraw the motion for the second reading, with the view of referring the bill to a select committee, to consist of Messrs. Ormond, Tiffen, Parsons, Lambert, and the mover. The Council having gone pro forma into committee upon the Cattle Trespass Bill, adjourned till next day at 3 o'clock. [ Wednesday, July 3. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present the Speaker and all the members. Nuhalta JBlotft. Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to notice, moved — That there be laid on the table of this Council a copy of the correspondence (if any) with the Auokland Government relative to the reoovery from it of the value of the Nuhaka Blook, lying within the bounds of that Province, and referred to as an available asset in the paper accompanying His Honor's opening address. — This land figured in the statement laid upon the table as a sum likely to be realised by the 30th June. That was now impossible ; but what he wanted to know | was — was this amount likely to be recovered at all P This block, according to a previous return, consisted of 110,000 acres, and cost £3,600. That amount had been sunk in an investment in the Province of Auckland, and there was very little chance of anything in the shape of returns. The present pressure was the result of that and other injudicious action taken by the government. ]\£r. M'Lean said that the return referiod to was laid upon the table before survey, and that the area was only 100,000 acres. It was a mistake to say that this block had been unproductive. It had already yielded £3,000 to the Provincial Treasury, there having been 10,800 acres of it in the Province of Hawke's Bay. The correspondence relative to that part of it which was the subject of negociation with j. the Superintendent of Auckland, would be ■ laid upon the table. When in Auckland he had spoken on the subject to one or two members of the !Execivtivo, who thought that the land had been bought very low, 7d an acre, and that the claim was a just one. The land was well suited for agricultural settlement. Receipts and Expenditure. Mr. Buchanan, pursuant to notice, moved — That a Committee be appointed to examine the Abstracts of Eeceipts and Expenditure laid before the Council by the Speaker on the 27th ultimo, with power to call for persons and papers. That the said Committee consist of Messrs. Tanner, Lambert, Parsons, Wood, and the mover. Keport to be brought up on 10th July. —He said that this duty, in other places, was ordinarily an annual one ; here it had been neglected for the past three years. He had selected the committee according to the best of his judgment, excluding, as was usual, the names of members of the government. Mr. Oemond seconded the motion. Mr. Wood, without being desirous of shirking any duty imposed upon him as a member, would submit to the mover whether it would not be better to substitute the name of some gentleman who had not, as he had, been a recipient of money from the Provincial Treasury. Mr. Buchanan substituted the name of Mr. Dolbel for that of Mr. Wood, and the motion was agreed to. Public Cemeteries, Mr. Tiffen, pursuant to notice, asked His Honor the superintendent — Whether it is the intention of the Government to introduce this session an Act for the regulation of public cemeteries. —No one could go on the hill and sco the state of the cemetery there without acknowledging the necessity of some Act of this nature. The condition of the cemetery had been a crying complaint for the last two years. He himself nod tried to

do something towards remedying this state of things but had' found it impossible in 'consequence of no powers having been given. The bill need be a very short one. Mr. M'Lean acknowledged the urgent necessity there was for such an Act. The members of the government being at present much occupied, he would ask the mover to prepare the short bill that was wanted, in doing which he would have the assistance of the Provincial Solicitor. Mr. Tiffen said that he would, and gave notice of his intention to bring in such a bill. Land for Defence Force. Mr. Tiefen, pursuant to notice, asked His Honor the Superintendent— What steps have been taken towards putting the members of the late Colonial Defence Corps in possession of their land. — He put this question with some degree of diffidence, seeing that His Honor's knowledge in this matter was derived from his position as General Government agent. - He would, however, put the question, as the men interested were anxious to know how the matter stood. Mr. M'Lean said the Council was aware that stringent instructions had been issued to General Government officers, prohibiting them from giving any information connected with their departments. (Laughter.) The matter, however, had local interest, and he would state what he knew, which was simply that the General Government had informed him that, immediately upon the settlement of the land question in Poverty Bay, it was their intention to make a settlement there, where the men of this force would get their land. Cobb and Co.'s Coaches, Mr. Tiffen, pursuant to notice, asked his Honor the Superintendent — Whether any correspondence has passed between the Provincial Government of Wellington and that of Hawke's Bay relative to the offer of Mr, Peters, agent of Messrs. Cobb and Co,, to run a lino of coaches between . Napier and Wellington, —He was led from common report to suppose that the "Wellington Government was ready to pay a large proportion of the subsidy asked for the establishment of this line. He gave no opinion on the practicability of the route, but simply, asked for information, for the benefit of those interested. ; Mr. M'Lean said that no correspondence had taken place on the subject, beyond a letter of introduction, in which, However, Dr. Featherston simply referred in general terms to the advantages which resulted from these conveyances being placed on lines of 'road. He had since had a personal interview with the Superintendent of Wellington, but nothing specific had been said about any grant of money. Sheep and Scab Amendment, Mr. Oemond, pursuant to notice, moved — For leave to bring in a bill to amend the existing Sheep and Scab Acts. —The country members were aware that, for the last few months, grave apprehensions were felt by flockowners in consequence of sheep supposed to be infected with scab, having come into the district. The object of this bill was to require that no sheep could be driven into the province without notice being given, and that sheep travelling through an infected district should be deemed infected sheep for the time being within the meaning of the Act. Leave granted ; bill brought in ; read a first time ; ordered to be printed ; and its second reading made an order of the day for Tuesday. Immigrants Promissory Notes, Mr. Weston, pursuant to notice, moved — That there be laid on the table of this Council a list of overdue Immigrants' guaranteed promissory notes, showing the date of the same, the names of the makers, by whom guaranteed, and the amount, eaoh note respectively represents. -—The -total amount of those notes was a heavy item in the list of available assets furnished to the Council, and his object was to ascertain how far that amount was likely to be realised. Mr. M'Lean said that there was every prospect of this sum being realised. These notes were being paid with tolerable regularity, £900 having been received this year. It was the intention of the governI ment to insist strongly upon those payments being made with punctuality. . As to the information asked for in the return, he thought it would be injudicious to publish it. Many persons would feel offended at names being thus made public, and such a course would in no way facilitate the collection of the money. Mr. "Weston had simply moved that .the return be laid on the table, not that it be printed. He thought that the fact of attention having been thus publicly drawn to the subject would of itself facilitate the collection of the money, and he would withdraw the motion. The Protection of the Spit, Major Lambeiit pursuant to notice, moved— That the Government be requested to inform the Council whether the expense inourred by the works now going on for the protection of the Spit is defrayed by the Pro- | vince or by the owners (in all or in part) of property in that locality. i — He said that this was an old sore. They had got rid of the Huntress, and now they had got the Spit. He wanted information as to what was really doing by the government, and, if possible, to prevent their ; spending money on the Spit, or anywhere else, that was not authorised. He admitted the necessity for erecting the inland i i bridges, but the action taken on the Spit was not of that nature. Mr. Balfour had j said plainly enough that if the Spit did disappear, the process would be a very j slow one. He greatly feared, from what he heard, that the Council was about to be asked to go once more into harbour improvements ; and if the government could shew him that the province as a whole was bound to support the Spit, he would give his assistance. But he denied this. Residents on the Spit were themselves greatly to blame for the present state of things, for they had removed the stones, which so much expense was being incurred to restore. The Iron Pot, again, was now but a narrow channel, and he well remembered the time when eminent merchants on the Spit resisted an offer of the government to pile in front of their properties. There was a good deal of selfishness in that locality. Sections on the Spit had been originally bought for £5, and the pur- 4 chasers had enjoyed great advantages. Their stores had been built up upon the labor of the pioneers of the district. All armies had in their rear persons called sutlers and camp followers — not the most respectable kind of people— and, in like manner, the Spit merchants were simply sutlers aijd camp followers to those who who had gone to the front, to such men as Donald Gollan, Charles Nairn, and other pioneers. They had worked, while the Spit merchants had remained behind comfortable. He did not, however, care where they remained or what they did, so long as the rest of the province was not called upon to pay for them. Mr. Uablyon seconded the motion. His remarks upon this subject on a former occasion would seem to have been misunderstood. . If it could be proved thatthese improvements wero . absolutely indispensable to the welfare of the province,

| it would certainly be the duty of the government to carry them out. But it was evident, from Mr. Balfour's report, that the injury had been done by the residents themselves, in removing stones and soil. If so, was it not hard that the province should have to make good what they had taken away P The gist of Mr. Balfour's report was that the Spit merchants had built their stores a foot or so too low; but what matter was that to the" Council ; it was simply a question of private property beingat stake. The other day a whare near Waipawa, which had been built too low, was swept away. As well might he (Mr. Carlyon) come to the Council for redress in such a case ; in both instances, the fact was simply this, that the buildings had not been put in the proper place. Mr. M'Lean said that, after the late storm he received a letter from the_ Spit residents, representing that the Spit, including the government buildings, was in imminent danger; and he thought the Council would agree with him that the Superintendent should have power to act in such cases of emergency. In reply, he authorised Mr. Kennedy to act upon Mr. Balfour's advice, and to do what was necessary — the government to contribute in an equal ratio with a sum to be contributed by residents on the Spit. Accordingly a large number of boulders were carted to the Spit and placed on the beach, as absolutely necessary to secure the safety of the Spit. He could not admit that the inland settlers had no interest in this matter 5 they would derive as many advantage as any class from having a good and safe harbour. Major Lambeet would point out that the letter referred to contained no reference to public buildings, but. was simply that the private property of the writers was endangered. Considering the wealth and position of the Spit merchants, and knowing as they did that the government was nearly insolvent, he thought they might have done this work themselves. He wondered, if the government, was in a strait, whether the Spit merchants would hand over any of their profits. Mr. Carl yon said it would appear that the public share of this expenditure would not much exceed £50, and he would not carp at the government for a matter of £50, even were it spent wrongfully. But it was not much to the credit of the Spit merchants to ask for such a sum when their annual profits were probably equal to £50,000. Mr. Osmond said that the Spit residents might not have been allowed to do this work themselves, had they been so inclined. In dealing with the entrance to the harbour they might do that entrance serious injury. "What had been done was the only course open to the government. They must, as a province, keep open the estuary which enabled them to import and export commodities. Mr. Ibvine supported the course taken by the government. Town Board Act, Mr. Sutxon, pursuant to notice, moved — For a Committee to frame a Town Board. Act ; such Committee to consist of Messrs. Kennedy, Locke, Wood, Irvine, and the mover. •—For some time back the necessity for such a Board had been talked of ; and the time had certainly arrivod when the town should bear some share of the cost of its own improvements. They were prepared to accept the position ; but they did not expect to be saddled with local taxation unless they saw a similar movement as regards inland districts. Mr. Locke seconded the motion. Some of the inland members had already started the old cry of town against country ; the town; on. the contrary, was quite willing to take tho initiative in self-reliance. . \ The motion was agreed to, after which, the Council adjourned till next day.