DEBATE ON THE VOTE FOR HARBOUR IMPROVEMENTS.

Hawke's Bay Herald, Volume 3, Issue 116, 10 December 1859, Page 3

DEBATE ON THE VOTE FOR HARBOUR IMPROVEMENTS.

WednesdaYj Nov. 23. The Council having, on the motion of Mr. FitzGerald, gone into committee on the estimates, the item of £6000 for harbour improvement was the first for consideration. Mr. FitzG-erald said that since last meeting of the Council he had made every endeavour to obtain information as to the probable cost of a dredging machine, and he believed that one suited to the requirements of Napier harbour could be obtained complete for about <- £2,500. If the Couuoil voted' the money, the government did not intend ordering a machine through an agent, but purposed sending Mr. Wright to Sydney, by whom estimates would. be c obtained and sent to the government. The executive council would then decide whether the order would be given or not. There would also be necessary appendages to the machine in ; the shape of punts, anchors, chains ; as well as coals, timber for breastworks, &c. The estimate blbo included the expense of stopping the > channel between Maori and Gough Island. The principal work, however, which it was. intended to enter upon "without , delay was the removal of soil from the mouth of the Iron Pot, and depositing tho same on the land within the line of Waghom street, intended to be reclaimed.. "Mr. Wright estimated that in six months 37,000 tons '. of earth could be thus removed. The^ork would therefore have a two-fold object — that of deepening the harbour and at the same time forming land which, when, sold, would go a great way towards liquidating the expense. . Mr. T^raEßT, thought that, if- they removed soil from the Iron Pot without its being first piled and ; Bheathed, the ytovk of one tide would "be" undone in the next; the'bank, would silt wp; as fast as it; could ke. r^ov|&iv\ " \ -, „ Mr. ExjE^GauHp* did not ,think there was ; any "danger of tbi^^mH: the sheathing, although not, contemplated at present/was part of the plan as

a whole. But he did not think that the engineering question was exactly one for discussion by the Council. If they had confidence in Mr. Wright, the Engineer, they ought, upon professional, points, to accept his opinion. Mr. Tttcees said that the subject of tidal harbours was one of very great difficulty ; and none required deeper attention or longer observation of the. particular place about to be dealt with.. _ Those difficulties were much felt even in old countries : and, in our own case, without that professional' talent and experience which could be commanded in England, the question should be approached with extreme caution. Mr. FitzGebaid quite agreed with the remarks that had fallen from the last speaker; but they were applicable to extended harbour operations rather than to the simple act of removing mud from one part of the harbour to another. He argued against the possibility of the mud so displaced being again deposited. Mr. Tipeek still thought that such a work should be a permanent one. . Mr. FitzGeeald said that the expense of sheathing was very great ; and that the contemplated works were intended to be only of such a character as would pay for themselves. Mr. Rhodes said that, viewing the projected operations in one light, they might be termed premature, for Napier had a very fine roadstead, which could be made to answer general purposes for years to come. But, in another light, the contemplated improvements were a saving on every hand. They were an advantage, if only as an experiment of how far works of this nature could be made self supporting. They were also, although independent in themselves, part of a more extended scheme of improvement. But what he looked at as much as anything was that at present there was no beach road ; the road now in use being over private property, and liable at any moment to be fenced in ; so that, in the worst View of the case, they were getting a good road at almost as low a sum as, if undertaken separately, it wouJd cost. Mr. Osmond said there was one point that should not be ovei'looked. More extended operations had been referred to ; if those now proposed were to be but the commencement of improvements on a large scale, the council should be made aware of the full particulars, and thus be given an opportunity of comparing the benefits likely to result with the probable cost. Mr. Rhodes said that the proposed works, although in connection with an extended scheme, were quite complete in themselves : and the council needed not to vote another shilling unless it liked. Mr. FitzGeealjD said that there could be no doubt that the harbour was getting shallower, and the banks more numerous. The floods carried down immense quantities of soil, which, meeting the flood tide, became deposited. This had been going on year after year ; and the deposits so made mu3t be removed by artificial means. It was the case with all the harbours in the world that had rivers running into them — the Mersey, Dublin Bay, &c. A few years more and the harbour of Napier would be in such a state that vessels could no longer enter it. There was no other remedy but removing the soil so deposited ; driving it from one place to another would not do. The only question was as to the most economical way of doing this ; and in the scheme now proposed economy was evei'ywhere had in view ; besides which both the consumer and the public treasury would be greatly benefitted. Mr. Colekso, after adverting to the absolute necessity of something being done to the harbour ; said that the projected improvements were a step in the right direction. They would be under the control of a gentleman, to whom exception had been taken on account of his youth, but whose experience had been considerable, and whose testimonials were undoubted. Were something not at once done, it wotild take mnch larger sums to accomplish it at a future time. What a splendid harbour would they now have had it been cleaved say atf the time of his arrival in 1843. Mr. Tucker, in reference to the remarks that had fallen from Mr. MtzGerald as to the tendency of soil brought down to be deposited, would have thought that for 'one ton deposited, hundreds would go out by the ebb tide, and that the harbour might be cleared in this way more readily than by moans of the comparatively few buckets ful which could be taken away by artificial means. The select committee, last session, had collected the best information they could from nautical men, and the whole tenor of the evidence was that, were proper moorings provided, there was at present ample accommodation for such a vessel as the " White Swan. " He must say that he preferred the opinion of old salts to that of young engineers. No doubt, a3 had been said, it was a very simple matter to take up soil and lay it down again ; but as to such temporary works improving the harbour much it was doubtful. Mr. Tucker here remarked upon the necessity, upon all important questions, of full information being placed before the public. The representatives of the people could not, _he thought, in the consideration of a vote, of this important nature, be too solicitous for information. Mr. FiTzGrEBAM) said that every member of that council was perfectly justified in calling for every information. He would remind the member for Ruataniwha of the great changes that had been wrought in the Clyde and the Thames by dredging only — that which was at one time shallow .being now deep and navigable. Then as regards the opinion of nautical gentlemen, he had a high respect for their opinion as to the best means of taking.a vessel in or out, but not much for their opinion on an engineering With reference to moorings, the Capt. of the " WhiteJSwan " has declared to him that, even with mooriflgs laid down, it was quite 1 impracticable in the present • state of the harbour to bring that vessel in. Inhere was the constant chance of either her stem or^sfcern -touching.one.of the banks, in which. casejhe. might not get off fori many, days. ,It was quite.a fallacy , to say that long vessels J requiririg^quiok^^spa^^--could make use bf-tne-narbour oiri til, itib^-so improved that they can steani in and out.'with'otM; *\ hesitation;. ! ; • ' .•;, ;yi' „ '. a-*'-, , . '"<;, : %j*;i '<■■•'£{ Mr. Ttjokeb.— -Does the master of the ■s -White ] Swan" believe that his vessel will get into" the.

<{ Iron Pot " if. the point at the entrance be cut away ? Mr. FitzGbeaid. — Decidedly : and is looking forward with anxiety to the time when it will be accomplished. Mr. TtTCKEB was influenced in giving his vote more by what he had heard from Mr. Rhodes, than any other remark that had been made. The want of a good road at the Spit was manifest; 'and it would appear that it might be made in this way at a reasonable expense. He hoped that, generally, the' expenses of working the dredging machine were not under estimated ; he would have thought that a much larger sum than that in the estimates, would be required for working an engine of 13 to 20 horse power. Mr. FitzGeraed said that it would be a high pressure engine, and would only be worked from 8 to 10 hours a day. After some further remarks the vote was agreed to.