SANITATION OF THE TOWN.

Gisborne Times, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 3585, 10 March 1914, Page 5

SANITATION OF THE TOWN.

CONFERENCE OF LOCAL BODIES • HELD.

DELEGATES FREELY DISCUSS THE QUESTION.

DECIDE TO APPOINT AN ENGINEER.

NO DEFINITE APPOINTMENT MADE.

'The all-important question of the sanitation of the town and district, arising from the odors which the Taruheru River has been emitting of late, and from the smells which are said to be coming from the sewerage and the foreshores, was disuessed by a conference of local bodies held at the Borough Council Chambers yesterday. The delegates present were —Borough Council : The Mayor (Mr J. It. Kirk), Crs J. C. Collins and .1. Brown. Cook County Council: Crs C. Witters, O. E. Jones, and D. J. Parker. Harbor Board: Messrs J. Townley (Chairman), Messrs T. Corson and G. Smith. Hospital Board: The Hon. Captain Tucker (Chairman), Messrs T. Holden, and E. H. Mann. His Worship the Mayor presided, and, in opening, said that it would be within the knowledge of all, the state of affairs which had become more pronounced than at any time hitherto. So much so that the. public of Gisborne and surrounding districts were looking to those in authority to see that everything possible was being done to prevent a recurrence in the future of what had taken place and that they might allay or limit the evil. The matter had been given some prominence in the press. At the last meeting of the Harbor Board a suggestion was made that, an outside engineer should be obtained to report upon the position generally. Certain conditions were attached to that suggestion, and since then the Borough Council' had met and arranged that the gentlemen before him should be asked to meet in conference to say:— (1) Whether it would be wise to engage an outside expert to report on the condition of the Taruheru River, and who was the best man to do this: (2) To report on the defects, if any, in the drainage system of the Borough; and (3) To report on the alleged nuisances on the Kaiti and Waikanao

foreshores. The first point then, proceeded the Mayor, was the necessity of appointing some outside engineer for the purposes stated, and in the second place if the conference decided that such a report from such an engineer was not required, then nothing further would b rendered necessary for that .day. If the motion to obtain an engineer was carried, then the question would he as to who the engineer should be. The name of one gentleman had been prominently before the public, and it would he for them to say whether it would he wise to appoint that gentleman or wiser to appoint someone who had no connection in Gisborne in the past, and who in no way had made any statement to which he would have to hold or against which he would have to go to give an honest report. The 6tate of New Zealand was such that we could claim to have more than one outstanding sanitary engineer, so that we should have more than one name before us. The next question was what proportions of the cost should be borne by the different bodies. The Mayor would prefer that the suggestion should 'come from the floor of the meeting. He had pronounced views on the question himself, and prominence had been given to them.. If the meeting was to proceed about its business, the first question to he dealt with was the advisability of appointing some outside engineer, to report upon the conditions prevailing in the town. . , , „ ~ Mr E. IT. Mann said before tlie conference got to business, he would like to know just exactly how they all came to be called together. What autlioiitj and power had they P Tlie Mayor pointed out that the conference was together as a consequence of the motion carried by the Borough Council at its last meeting as follows: —“This Council invite the Board, the Harbor Board, and the Cook Countv Council to meet this Council with a view to engaging an outside Engineer to report on the farubcru River, the mud flats on it. any defects in our sanitary system, and a general report on the W aikanae and Kaiti foreshores; such report to be paid for by the four bodies concerned.” Mr Mann said that was satisfactory to him, only he wanted to make sure of his position, because some of the delegates were not sure of their powers."' Mr Mann"said the question was that an intolerable nuisance had arisen. It was perfectly certain that something needed to be done to allay the nuisance which had been disturbing them all, as it was becoming a serious matter. If there was any divergency of opinion on the matter which they were about to discuss,’ then ho was prepared to vote for the appointment of an engineer whose opmion would bo required by nil of them. Cr Brown said that the question which had arisen had to.be faced by all of them. A great stench had arisen. The Waikanao beach, liad recently given off an odor oi the same thing applied to some extent to Kaiti. The committee appointed by the Borough Council paid a surprise visit to the Kaiti freezing works. It was suggested while down there that a sieve should be procured and tried at the outlet, and this was obtained. Half a minute-at the outlet resulted in half an inch of solid filth being held in this, which would mean an inch a minute or, working on average, 80 or 90 cubic yards per season of filth. In view of these figures he would say that the matter must be stopped. They may have caught the works on the' hop—perhaps at the minimum outlet of filth or the maximum. As to the Waikanae, it should lie known where the stench and trouble came from, whether the. Boroughs own septic tank or abbatoirs or anywhere else. He was anxious that the cause should be detected whethoi it came from the Borough’s own property or anywhere else. It was right that they should obtain a competent engineer to report, because tliev did not know who or what was actually to blame, and tliev must know. Dr Collins said that, with regard to the appointment of an engineer, lie would like to take all the gentlemen present with him as it struck him. Th first thing they had: to consider was the sanitation of tlie Borough and surrounding districts. After Dr Chosson’s visit to this town, he thought it was safely established that there were processes taking place which were a dancer to the town. Since then, the subject had been deliberated on by various people and various causes assigned. These causes were causing in the public mind much unrest. These various factors which had arisen were contributing to one •large factor, and this was unrest in the public mind as to these nuisances about town. As to the Taruheru River, it was not necessary for him to elaborate, because the Health Officer had said that was a factor causing danger to the health of the town. Not being in the Boro.ugli it would be necessary for those in control outside to get reports on the subject, for the sako of public health, ■with veferenoe to the various parts. Tlie Taruheru River was being polluted, it would seem, from several causes, and from certain quarters along the river and open sewers to the river werecontributing to the cause.

Let them take the Kaiti foreshore. The Gisborne Sheepfarmers’ outfall had, beyond doubt, established a menace to the district. He would not make an assertion like that unless ho was able to prove it. It was one of direct menace to the health of the town. Proceeding to discuss this, Dr Collins produced and read correspondence from Dr Chesson dated December 11, 1913. In this Dr Chesson, he said, informed the Borough Council that a nuisance did exist. That established a fact that there must be a nuisance there. The speaker continued to deal with subsequent correspondence on the subject. Up to March 5, the Borough Council had no official intimation from the Company, that they intended to do anything in the matter. The correspondence showed that this outfall fvas the cause of a menace to the town. What the Council committee found on the visit to the outfall, it was not his purpose to elaborate on, but let it bo sufficient to say that they were not satisfied with what they had seen. There were other contributing causes hinted: at—the septic tank and the abattoirs. They were minor contributing causes, but since they had been mentioned, they must be reported on and corrected. They came down to the sewerage of tlie Borough itself. This was the biggest question, and it. was hardly right for any member of the Borough Council to say that the sanitation of the town was not perfect. He did not think it was all fair or just for them to pass any decided opinion at all as to whether it was the Taruheru River, the Gisborne Sheepfarmers’ or anywhere else unless they were prepared to say that they had discovered that there was a danger and a menace to the public, because they bad had a report fiom a sanitary engineer, wherein lay the necessity of appointing a sanitary engineer. In the first place, there were two professions called in. One was the Health Department’s officer, and he was able to say whether such was a danger to life and what were the organic changes going on to make it a danger to life. Then the other, the engineer, was asked to tell them how to rectify that nuisance. The Hospital authority undoubtedly took the matter in . hand and wisely sent over the District Health Officer. They had got valuable information from him. He thought it resolved itself into the fact that we should require the services of a sanitary engineer or engineers as the case might be. Each local body must at any time, of necessity, appoint its own engineer for any reports on existing nuisances. All these, in the case of a general nuisance, could lie collaborated and made into one report, but they would be handicapped in that there was no authority to say to body A or B that it must carry out what the Engineer said it should. The point, then was whether they should appoint a well-known sanitary engineer and ask him to report on all these phases which were giving rise to a danger and a menace to health, and whether they should carrv out his recommendations in toto. Thus the two vital points were (1) the appointment of a sanitary engineer, and (2) whether the members of local bodies wouW. say they were prepared to carry out what was recommended.

He considered, under the circumstances from a public point of. view, that where there was unrest in the mind of tlie public, and where that unrest was founded on a fairly solid basis and the basis was split between the local bodies concerned, it was only right and wise to call the members of the local bodies together ; and he thought the time was ripe for them to sav they were going to appoint a sanitary engineer to see if it is not possible to remove a stigma which exists with regard to sanitation. Mr Mann said the name of an engineer had been freely used and it was no use hiding it now. Was Mr Kirk in favor of Mr. Mestayer being appointed to submit a report. Could he give them a- reason wfoy he should not be appointed?. The Mayor, m reply, said he thought that the main trouble came from the Taruheru River, and from both ends, and he did think that the mud flats in the river contributed far too much to the danger in which we were situated.. He had thoujh when he wrote to the Harbor Board that their engineer would have reported on the practical manner in which these flats should be done away with or covered up almost continually with water. Mr Mann: You recognised him as a fairlv busy man? The Mavor: Yes, ibut as Engineer, I thought 'he would have been able to say what should be done with these mud flats. Since then other matter, extraneous, but dealing with the .subject in the main, has been brought m the question of the freezing works. cut factorv, abattoirs, sewers and everything'. The mind of the public is in'such a state that it does not wait to look for the point through which the greatest danger is coming. I am decided that the trouble at any rate is coming from the Taruheru River. Therefore, I am "perfectly agreeable that the whole of these matters should be brought under consideration and finally decided once and for all. . We might then have the question of- the mud flats decided and done, with it that is the onlv way to get at it. With regard to Mr Mestayer. the Mayor proceeded, they did not want a inan who would come to the Harbor Board Engineer or anyone else as to what, had happened in the past. Mr Mestayer had already given a. report condemnatory of the drainage system in operation here. Mr Townlev: When, when? The Mayor: I understand that he said he considered that a .better system would be got to take the outfall out to Wainui beach. Mr Maim: I understand he recommended a system which has not been adopted. „ JT The Mayor: Well that will do for the the purposes of my argument. Mr Mann: Are you prepared to substitute a name for Mr Alestayer’s-? The Mayor: Yes, because I am of opinion that New Zealand can produce a number of good men. Mv sole objection to Mr Mestayer is that he has already reported on Gisborne. He is in his seventies, although I do not state that as an objection. The _engineer I would suggest is Mr LamgMeason, of Wellington, who has a very large practice. Mr Mann said that to put everything in order he would move that a sanitary engineer be appointed to report on the position. Dr Collins seconded. “The tiling that gives me most concern.” said the Hon. Captain Tucker, “is how to allay the trepidation of the public mind, and I am not quite that that trepidation is quite well founded. I shall, as far as I can help to meet it. I elo not. admit that any of these things spoken of have been proved to have worked any damage at all. I have taken every precaution. I have employed the inspector frequently, and I have been informed that this unpleasant smell is not dangerous to life at all. I do think there lias been a little too much fear about- what may happen I have not found the river very offensive. Mr Mann: Has Captain Tucker seen alongside the river for a full evening? Captain TuckerNo, certainly not —(laughter). Mr Mann: Then I say you are not able to- discuss it. Dr Collins: Does Captain Tucker remember Dr Chesson saying he considered it was dangerous to life. Captain Tucker: I never heard him say that. Mv recollection of what Dr Chesson said 'was that, although all these things are, very unpleasant and disagreeable, and ought to be cured, there was no reason to believe that they were dangerous to life. He did say that because these smells nauseate people that they lower one’s vitality and make him more susceptible to diseases. More than that I never heard him say that it was directly dangerous to life. I (heard him say also-that smells would never kill anyone. Had '■ 'J m *A

Dr Chesson held that view he would have acted more speedily and drastically than he did. The Mayor : I heard Dr Chesson say that the smell was indirectly dangerous to life. Mr Mann and Dr Collins said they also heard the statement. Captain Tucker said he would stick to his guns and say that nothing had been shown to prove that the smell was working any human harm. He did not say that as a reason why nothing should be done, but merely to show that the public trepidation was unnecessary. The question was one of considerable gravity to Gisborne. We are told that this' works and these works must shut. I am not inclined to go as far as that. > Mr Mann : I never saw that statement. Captain Tucker (heatedly): But I have seen it and will name the man who made it if you like. The Chairman: I saw it in the public press. Captain Tucker : Inspector York has never reported to me anything inimical to the public health from these sources. Last time I was down near the works I saw two men doing something at the septic tank. I merely mention that because it has been suggested to me that they might have been doing something that needed doing. I found nothing highly offensive there. This is a subject that we must not get at all hysterical about. We should not say it is a menace or danger to life without good ground. Tlie number of admissions to the Hospital might give us some proof. I have not found the admissions to the Hospital this year any greater than last year. The Mayor: Are all notifiable diseases sent to the Hospital?

Captain Tucker: No, but I took the handiest answer to the charges. Whether we appoint an engineer or not 1 cannot say for the present, but we should appoint some engineer who has never had anything to do with any works in Gisborne, fllie expense will have to be borne by the local bodies, and we will have to decide how this is to be borne. Mr Smith said he would like to know to know whether all the delegates present were authorised to vote by the bodies which they represented. As to the Harbor Board, which he represented, no meeting had been called, but the Chairman ha<f requested representatives to come along. It was questionable, however, if the Board would support the vote made by the delegates. The Chairman of the Harbor Board (Mr John Townley) said that . the Board had decided that, if an engineer was appointed, Mr Mestayer should be appointed. A joint report from Mr McDonald and .Air Mestayer would be of great importance to the district. Tlie Harbor Board approved of that. Since then, the matter had not been before the Harbor Board. He did not know- whether there was a clause in the Harbors Act allowing the Board to do that. There was nothing about sanitation or as to expenditure for reports. It was, in his opinion, a matter resting entirely with the Health Board and the Borough Council. Mr Alann : Then do you think that the Harbor Board would be likely to carry' the proposal? There are seven members of the Board present. Air Townley : The majority are not here. The Alayor: AYhat is the attitude of the Board going to be regarding these mud-flats. Air Townley-. It is a question of finance. and a very big one. It is on private property down to low water line. Dr. Collins: With regard to the question of finance. the. Hospital Board, the Borough Council, and the Harbor Board are the only ones concerned. The County has handed over its sanitary powers to the Hospital Board. Do I understand that private property goes down to low water mark ?

Air Townley : If you take the mud flats away, you take it down to a new mark. Air Corson said that, on the Harbor Board, he would vote tor the expense of obtaining an engineer to report on the matter. The Alayor said the crux of the question was what the Harbor Board was going to do over the question of the mud flats. Captain Tucker said that the jurisdiction of the Harbor Board was for navigation rather than reclamation. The Alayor said that navigation and reclamation were bound up in the one matter. Dr. Collins, replying to the Alayor, pointed out that three members of the Harbor Board (Messrs Corson and Brown and himself) had said they were in favor of an Engineer being brought here. Air Geo. AYitters said he wouid like to learn something of the probable before he did anything. Ho "would, point out that a man qualified to speak told him that- there were two distinct smells in town. One was from the sewerage and The Alayor: I certainly object to that. Air Witters: I am told there is a smell from the septic tank. The Alayor: Unfortunately, the leeward side of the septic tank is also the leeward side of the Sheepfarmers’ outfall. . . . Mr Witters went on to say that lie fame armed with absolutely no authority and he did not personally want to pledge his Council in any uay. Dr. Collins pointed out that the Hospital Board was the Health Authority and if its members voted for an engineer, the Cook County must, ip>o facto be brought- into the expenditure. ' Air Geo. Smith said that it was not many years since a cry was raised over the same thing in Gisborne. Avery low rainfall last winter and summer had been to a large extent the cause of the river giving off-" its odour. He had reallv not been able to "‘get- it since he returned. The local oodies who had control of the different parts of the river could do a great deal to abate the nuisance by taking firm amt drastic steps in the matter. It the conference sanctioned the appointment of .a engineer, then who wou-d be responsible for the expenditure? This, he took it. was scarcely clear enough to them. The questions of deepening the river and providing breastworks, etc. were beyond the purse of the town for the present and he took it. that the best- thing for the Harbor Board to do was to allow its own Engineer to report on the subject of the mud-fiats. Captain Tucker counselled the conference that be thought the meeting was putting the cart before the horse, in that it would be wiser to obtain the feeling of the various bodies on the matter. Mr Holden said lie would not care to commit the Harbor Board by \qtmg on any motion, because he believed that the report of the Board s own Enenneer on the subject was sufficient. The Alayor: But he told me he was too busy. , . , ~ Cr. Jones: Air Chairman, I would like to know whether I will be called on to vote as a member of the Cook -Countv Council or as an individual? The’ Chairman : You arc here as an individual to give your honest opinion as .to what you believe will be best to do to clean up this district. The motion was then altered to reav. in the terms of the minute passed by the Borough Council and noted above and was carried unanimously. The Mayor then moved that the services of Air Laing Aleason should be*obtained. *'l do not know him personally.” he added, “or anything about- him. I know he lias reported, on many of the rivers in the Wellington district and holds a big practice. Captain Tucker seconded the noMr Alann moved that AH Alestayer be appointed and Air Townley seconded the motion. Eventually, it was agreed not to put the motion, but to adjourn to noon on Saturday, so that each delegate could make inquiries about- the Engineers suggested. The question of the proportions of the cost was also held over.