DISESTABLISHMENT.

Feilding Star, Volume VI, Issue 1797, 18 May 1912, Page 4

DISESTABLISHMENT.

THE BILL GETS ITS SECOND

READING

A DUKE ON ROBBERY

LLOYD GEORGE ON THE GENESIS OF THE DUKE'S FORTUNE. BY ELECTRIC TELEGRAPH—COPYRIGHT. PER PRESS ASSOCIATION. London, May 17. In tlie House of Commons the Welsh Disestablishment Bill was read a second time by 348 to 267 votes. A dozen Liberals abstained from voting. Sir E. Beauchamp (Liberal) and Mr G. Harwood (Liberal) voted against the Government.

Lord Hugh Cecil said the establishment, being a relation of the United Kingdom anel the Church, ought to bo treated Imperially, not as concerning Wales alone. Theconfiscation of property which the Church had held undisputed for 300 years and its diversion to secular objects was wholly indefensible.

The Hon. D. Lloyd George denied this. The funds had been derived from tithes. They were not the property of the Church, but were held in trust for the nation. The Church, while accumulating its endowments, had accepted the principle that' the maintenance of the poor was a service to God, but the poor's, share of the tithes had been annexed. The Government had been charged with pillaging the Church, but the Church had set the example when it severed its connection with ancient faith, 'lhe property intended for the use of the poor and sick went to the great families. The Duke of Devonshire had issued a circular accusing the Government of "the robbery of God." Yet the foundation of the Duke's own fortune lay in property taken from the Church. Such an accusation should not have been made by those whoso family tree was laden with the fruits o fsacrifice. At the time ot the Reformation, Catholic churches, monasteries, almshouses, and the poor, —even the dead—were robbed. Now, when the Welsh were seeking part of the pillage for the poor, those dripping with the fat of sacrilege ventured to accuse the Government of robbing God.

Mr Edgar R. Jones and Dr. J*. Richards indicated that the Welsh, while tlesiring a settlement, did hot want the Church's money. The Church had failed in its trust, and must-surrender it to the nation.

Mr Bouar Law, Leader of the Opposition, taunted the Government that it was not proud of its proposal. The motive of the Welsh members was to weaken the Anglican Church, not to strengthen the free churches. He censured Mr Lloyd George's attack on the Duke of Devonshire, which w 7 as the most extraordinary one he had ever made in the House of Commons. Did he mean that the Duke ought to hand over his property to the State? It was unfair to attack a man for what his ancestors may have done four centuries ago. He w r as satisfied to base the Welsh church's title to the endownients on the prescription alone. The Hon, R. McKeima defended the disendowment title, which was a creation of the law.- Parliament ought not, after disestablishment, to impose a tax on Welshmen for the benefit of a church which was not a national one.