MR PAYNE STANDS TO HIS WORD

Evening Star, Issue 15539, 8 July 1914, Page 4

MR PAYNE STANDS TO HIS WORD

SUSPENDED FOR A DAY,

[From Ova Parliamentary Reporter.]

WELLINGTON, July 8. Mr -J. Payne, member for Grey Lynn, .vas given an opportunity this afternoon to withdraw the words he used on Friday night to the Prime Minister—He sits there by bribery and corruption ”—butabsolutely refused to do so, and was suspended for the remainder of the sitting. There was no fuss about the business, ana ao expression of regret. Mr Speaker, before calling on petitions, said, that he saw the hon. member for Grey Lynn in his seat. He had to inform him that the House had decided to afford Turn another opportunity of withdrawing certain words he had used in the debate' on the Addrees-in-Reply on Friday last. " I ask,” he continued, “ if the hon. member is prepared to withdraw these words.” Mr Payne : Mr Speaker, I want to be quite clearly understood. My words had no personal reference to Mr Massey in hie capacity as a private member. Mr Speaker; I think the hon. member must withdraw the words first. The words were used in the House.

Mr Payne: Well, Mr Speaker, I do want- an opportunity of making myself quite clear in regard to the words used. I won’t say any more, but that they applied to the 'Government, and to the Premier as the head ot the Government. Mr Speaker: Well, I can't permit that. The hon. member now has an opportunity withdrawing the words. He must withdraw the words, and probably any explanation mav be heard afterwards. The hon. member, in the first place, must withdraw tho words, and he should do that unreservedly. Mr Payne: Mr Speaker, I am luiiy aware of the fact that the dignity and honor of this House must be upheld. At the same time, 1 cannot propose to put navsdf in tho position ‘Mr Speaker: Does the hon. member i - tend to withdraw the words? IV o must deal with that first, without any reservation whatever. He is afforded another opportunity of withdrawing the words. Ho must say whether he withdraws or otherwise before he goes on with any explanation. Mr Payne: Well, Mr Speaker, you have given me no alternative but to unreservedly refuse to withdraw the words I have used' I have made myself quite clear in the matter. As to what my intentions were bevond that point, I am no prepared to' go. I did not intend any reflection on Mr Massey as a. private member. (Cries of “ Order.") Mr Speaker: I understand the hon. member refuses to withdraw' the words? Mr Payne: With »ill due respect to the Chair, sir. I absolutely refuse to do so. ADVICE FROM THE OPPOSITION LEADER. Sir Joseph Ward: May I be permitted •;o -ay, before the matter goes any further, ■hat I had not the opportunity of being aere ■when the discussion took place on Friday night, because I was at a function in connection with the Public Trust Office, but the hon. member for Grey Lynn, in mv judgment, would be well advised if he were to withdraw the words. I say so because if the words “he sits there.” as I have read them, did seem to have a personal application to the Prime Minister, there is no hon, member of the Horse who coaid uphold a personal application of that kind. If a charge was •made against a Government, that is quite a different thing. That nas been done ixh© past repeatedly. I want to say to the hem. member that in my opinion he would be conserving his own rights and aiding preservation of the dignity o. the flou4 if he were to withdraw the words which are found to be taken exception to as tbev were given, and not- as the hon. ir.erohe'r them to fpplv- The rulings on points ot this kind m the past show clearly that the intention of ' a member m using words it not- what the House to deal with; it is actual words uttered, an J- the hon. member must see that the words'have a personal application. I nave not spoken, to him privately or any suggestion to him, but I think he J'Ould be doing the proper thing if he * withdraw the words which at present have a personal explanation. Speaking for myself. I would not support any hon. member of the House in making a personal charge of the kind, unless it was a defined charge bv way of resolution and in conformity with the procedure of Parliament Then 3 'hon. members will recognise that the ruling of tho Speaker given on this matter. It must be observed. aT ,d must be upheld. I would suggest to kim-“ihough he was not- able te make the full explar/aton he wanted to in connection with the matter —that he should look _at it calfnlv and dispassionately, and seeing that it is in accordance with the ordinary procedure of the House he should take the course that I have suggested. tho wav I read the matter in print was that it r>ad a personal application. I tnmk it is oniv right it should be- withdrawn. ‘ AN OBDURATE MEMBER. Air Speaker: I give the horn member _ for (Lev Lynn another opportunity of withdrawing the words, but I tell him he must v, ithdraw them unreservedly. Mr PaTner-jtfniftn tho words were taken down I endeavored to make myself quite ! Mr Speaker: The hon. member must say definitely whether he withdraws. We are "iving the hon. gentleman a great many opportunities, being a new member of the Ifottse, but I ask him not to take advan-

fir Payne: I appreciate very highly th© jtdviae that has been tendered to me by tbe Leader of the Opposition, but at the same time my meaning was perfectly clear. 1 must unhesitatingly refuse - to withdraw those words. Mr Speaker; Will the hen. member withdraw from the Chamber. The member for Grey Lynh then walked rapidly oat of the House. ■ ' MOTION FOR SUSPENSION.

The Right Hon. Mr Massey: I regret, Mr Speaker, that it becomes my duty as Leader of the House, in consequence of the refusal of the member for Grey Lynn to withdraw the words he used on Friday evening, and which I need not repeat, to move—“ That the member for Grey Lynn he suspended for the remainder of this sitting.” I don't- think tbe motion requires any explanation. So far as I am personally concerned that hop. member is at liberty to use any words personally or poli-Gf-j.ll v with regard to myself. I am perfectly prepared to deal with the matter, but' I am thinking of the dignity of the House; and if this state of things is allowed to go on I have to ask hon. member® where are they to draw Lie line. {Hear, hear.) I sincerely hope that what took place on. Friday evening and this afternoon will b© in the minds of hen. members for the remainder <;f *he session. Sir, I move accordingly. Th« motion was put and declared carried, only one or two members dissenting. The Speaker: The hon. member is suspended for the remainder of the sifting. Mr : Speaker then called the attention of the House to the question of interjections, and said that although the interjectora were not perhaps more frequent that at former Parliaments, they were too fveauent. He would like to point out that fact.' Tb® interjection made was often the fault of tie speaker, who, instead oi addressing the Chair, addressed members of the Mouse, thus inviting interjections. If a member had already spoken in a debate he had tbe opportunity by way of personal explanation to reply to misrepresentations, and interjection® during a speech were not necessary. Interjections were disorderly, and he 'asked the odder members, to show fhe younger ones an example by refraining from interjections. Tula was necessary, especially as it was the beginning of a. new session, and order must b© continued. '.the business of tho day was then considered. ' ■