BUDGET DEBATE ENDED.

Evening Star, Issue 14963, 24 August 1912, Page 12

BUDGET DEBATE ENDED.

PRIME MINISTER'S REPLY. >[From Our Parliamentary Reporter.] WELLINGTON, August 24. The Debate, which has occupied the House of Representatives for the past fortnight, closed with yesterday's sitting. The Prime Minister, who rose to reply at 12.50 a.m., thanked members for the reasonable and fair criticism that had been given to the first Reform Budget. He referred to hon. members, but he excluded that of the last speaker (the member for Nelson), with his scolding, snarling, and spiteful speech. For years Nelson had been represented by a man who was respected on all sides of the House, but the old order had changed. Proceeding, the Hon. Mr Massev said he was glad to notice that there had been no reference in the Debate to the old story of reactionaries, soup kitchens, low wages, and such matters. The Budget marked a new era in the political history of the country, and its reception was a compliment "to his colleague, the Minister of Finance. It was gratifying that trade, commerce, and industry were improving throughout the country. This was because people felt more confident now than they had for the last 20 years. The new line" of cleavage was now apparent in politics as between the Reformers and anti-Reformers, between those who supported the Government's reforms and those who wished to stay in the rut. Mr Russell: "We gave vou the old age pension* and lands for settlement scheme." The Prime Minister stated that ihe financial authorities during the last few days had stated that, instead of money becoming more stringent, it would become very much cheaper than for some time past. The Government would do everything to keep duv.il the rate of interest to the borrower. The speaker referred to Mr Wilford's speech .is the mut stioimous during .he debate, bi: declared that it made no damaging impression on the Budget. To talk of a revision of the Tariff under the present circumstances was arrant nonsense, and if the Government attempted to do it on the present state of the money market at Home, and in f.-.ce of the general condition of tilings, they would not be worthy the places they occupied. —Licensing Bills.'— In his anxiety to find fault with the Government the hon. gentleman had referred to the Licensing Bill. He had said that the Government did net intend to introduce a Licensing Bill, and that a private member had done so. How many private members had attempted to introduce licensing legislation? He remembered Sir Robert Stout, Mr Laurenson, and Mr M'Nab. They knew that private members had two days a week at this stage, and the Government had not attempted to interfere with private members' rights, and they had no intention of doing so. —An Invitation to Liberals.— The members on the Opposition benches were placed in an unfortunate position, for they had been unable to find fault with the Government's policy, and they were accordingly unhappy. Why, therefore, did not they do the right thing, and admit the excellence of the Budget, and, doing so, come over and help the Government to put the legislation through outlined in it? Mr Isitt: "We'll pas? every good measure." The Prime Minister: "Then vou will have plenty cf opportunities." The Govern, ment would abolish political patronage and the gross extravagance which had characterised the administration ot public atfairs. The Premier proceeded to refer in scathing terms to some criticisms passed by the member for Hurunui regarding the class of men behind the Ministry and the funds that stood behind the policy of the Government. He considered that the men behind the Government party were quite as good as those behind the member for Hurunui; in fact, the member's remarks upon the fighting fund were impertinence. Mr Forbes: "Were they?" Mr Massev: '" Yes, an undoubted impertinence." —Bad Speeches and Worse.— After dubbing Mr Forbes's speech as a bad one, the Premier declaied the one delivered by the member for Christchurch North to have been ;i hundred times worse. Mr Isitt: " I thought you only took exception to the snarling speech of the member tor Nelson." The Prime Minister said that he had to thank the member for Christchurch North for making, such a speech, because it had done the Government an immense amount of good, and he hoped that he would go on making those speeches. But he was looking at it from another point of view. Without exception it was the most undignified speech that he had ever listened to, full of envy, malice, and uneharitableItess. It could not do the .-lightest harm to the cause of the party that sat on the Treasury benches, nor could it do any good to the hon. member for Christchurch North, swinging hie arms tike an inebriated windmill. (Laughter.) When he heard him screaming like a steam whistle with a sore throat—(Mr Isitt: " This is dignified!")—his feelings were full of sorrow rather than anger. There was only one thing to do—give him rope, and plenty of it, and the ultimate end would follow. Nothing surprised him so much as when Mi Isitt attempted to bet with him, offering 6to 1. (Laughter.) He objected to returns where names were mentioned, and so long as he was a Minister he would decline to lay such documents on the table. j Mr Russell: "A bit awkward for you." —Poet Office Loans and Interest.— The Prime Minister went on to deal with j Post Office Savings Bank loans to the Government, asking what was wrong in renewing them at the old late of o£ per Cent. Mr Russell : "We had arranged to pay 3J per cent." Tlie Prime Minister replied that that was incorrect. He would produce a return showing that £150,000 w;i 6 borrowed last March by the Mackenzie Government at 3£ per cent., though at the time the financial outlook was much worse than at present. The Treasury was practically compelled to find investments for the Post Office Savings Bank money. The transaction which had been criticised had not had the slightest effect on the rate of interest paid to depositors. Of course, if money continued to be dear it would be the duty of the Government to increase the tate of interest payable to depositors. The records showed that the Liberal party had been responsible for a reduction in the rate of interest, which in December, 1897, was 3j per cent; but it was shortly afterwards dropped to 2£ per cent, on" certain sums. This continued until June 29, 1906. Mr Russell: "That was for huge sums after the cheap money came in." —Points for tho Toilers.— Mr Massey went on to refer to tiie cry of the Opposition that there was nothing for the toilers. What about the eld age pensions? What about the various other pension schemtis and proposals in favor of the toilers? And yet the Opposition cried there was nothing for the toilers. Speaking of the Loans to Local Bodies Act, he declared that the original intention of that Act was to help_ the small and struggling local bodies. Yet the Opposition would bring in the large and wealthy local bodies. What advantage would lie in the scheme if the large bodies were going to swallow up all the money? Mr Mac Donald : " You could not do that under the old Loans to Local Bodies Act." The P»ime Minister affirmed that it was the iocal bodies that were to-day struggling with developments that they intended to provide for. Mr Russell: " People in the cities and the towns are entitled to cheap money." The Prime Minister : " Yes; whilst that ia right, still the cheap money scheme like this was intended for development purposes." Turning to the borrowing policy, Mr Massey intimated that his Government would not pile up the Public Debt as had been done during the past few years. They did not intend to stop borrowing, but intended to go on borrowing for land for settlements', local bodies, advances to settlers, and. for advances to workers. There was their policy, and he hoped it woe sufficiently definite for hon. members.

Mr Ewssell : " You have not indicated what you are borrowing this year." Mr Massey : " You will learn that in time. We are taking authority to borrow a million and three-quarters for public works." They had other funds from other sources that he thought would be sufficient." They would not need to aek- further authority from Parliament just- now, and he did not think there was any Teason to fear those services would be starved. The speaker went on to declare that there was altogether a wrong impression among certain members that the Government wanted to establish a system of landlordism and tenantry. Let him say that the Government were out against any such system, whether it be State landlordism or private landlordism. They wanted everv man as far as possible to be his own landlord. The member for Lyttelton had drawn a parallel between endowment land held by harbor boards and other city bodies and the Crown lands. Tenure didn't matter to the lessees of harbor board lands so long as the leases were long enough to make building worth while. But in the country there was a very real and sentimental attachment between the settler and his land. It was necessary for the welfare of the country that the* Freehold should be established." If he were a young man wishing to take up land in this country and could not get a freehold, he would leave the country for a better one. He believed that was in fact the cause of so many voung men leaving New Zealand. Mr Russell: "You will get no Freehold with the renewable leases." Mr Massev : "Then the country will be consulted. * There will bo no backing down as far as we are concerned. When we bring down a policy measure, that measure will be put through, or we will ask His Excellency for a dissolution." (Ministerialists: "Hear, hear.") It was absolutely impossible to deal with a Local Government Bill this session, but one would be brought down and an attempt be made in the Bill to classify local bodies thai were entitled to receive State assistance and these that were not entitled to it. This would do away with the present pernicious system of State grants. The Bill for reforming the Public Service would be brought down in a few days. As for the Railway Manager, railway experts were unfortunately few and far between, and one who could capably manage our railwavs could command any salary he pleased. He hoped that New Zealand would be able to get a good man, who would bring our railways up to date. The law* of" the land gave preference to British manufacturers, but the Government were extending the principle by ordering all their supplies from British manufacturers. As to the question of the Graduated Land Tax, the Government were substantially increasing it on estates over £30.000, so as to ensure subdivision.