THE OUTRAGES IN CHINA.

Evening Star, Issue 8720, 12 January 1892, Page 1

THE OUTRAGES IN CHINA.

[From the • Abgcs's ' Special UobbeS' PONDENT.]

TIENTSIN, Novembeb 28. My interview with Li Hung Chang took place in the official palaoe of the Viceroy, in the Yamen of the province, This, however, ib an far from being an imposing edifioe as Tientsin is far from being an engaging city. By my visit was, notwithstanding, attended by Considerable ceremony. I most, I was informed, proceed to the Yamen in a chair; and a kindly hint from a friendly resident warned me to select one carried by four bearers, instead of by the customary two. A Chinese chair recalls the old sedan chair, only yon enter from the front instead of at the side. It is embellished with many gandy tassels, which remind one somewhat of a ball fight, and your bearers, in point of dress, especially of the head, support the illusion. My cicerone and interpreter was Mr Lofen Loh, who is a toati or magistrate, also private secretary to the Viceroy, and practically fills the office at the Chinese Admiralty, where he resides, which is filled by Mr For wood, M.P. He is a delightful gentleman, speaks English with the air and grace of a cultivated native, and is accounted the beat interpreter in China. He served in the Chinese Legation in Europe for several years. Mr Loh preceded my chair in one of his own, and as he was attended by runners and footmen, and I was followed by a mounted escort, we attracted no little attention. Native Tientsin is typically Chinese, with Ha narrow, tortuous, dusty streets, filthy open spaces and exposed drains, repositories of the refuse of a frowsy population, the houses, low browed shops, and the air laden with foul smells, ooupled to that mysterious savor of fried oastor oil without which no Chinese settlement is entitled to native respect. The Yamen is a congeries of buildings connected by hooded corridors, fringing open spaces or quadrangles or courts, from which overhanging Chinese roofs exclude both light and air ; but everywhere the eye falls upon thtt never-failing artistio. oomfaiaatfon in rede, greens, blues, sad yellows which approves the Chinese soul for harmonies. Li Hut g Chang's audience chamber is a long rooir, supplied with a long table coviied by a red cloth. There is an easy chair for Hut Excellency, and ordinary chairs for his vuUom <u><l offioUlo, while tipun pedestals are statuettes of General Grant, Gordon, and a photograph of himself. Upon the walls in solitary companionship Is a Cay p. The Vioeroy, personally, is tall and of dignified manners, with a pleasant smile warming his rosset-colored complexion. He stands even now, and notwithstanding his stooping shoulders, over 6ft, and his frame must in battle have proved a formidable one. His Excellency received me with the greatest warmth, extending his hand, which is not always the case with the Greater Mandarins, and be evidently attached, much importance to. the fruits of this interview. The Vioeroy began lite -conversation by asking n»y age, and if I wef» married and Jived happily with my wife; 4mt4bls seeming impertinence I afterwards'learnt forms quite a customary every new in Chiiuy "m Excellency ifiext ««fcej me a great ,vartot* # gpeationa, *o orootMly; werviewing his interviewer* Jh msAe inquiries as to the position and strength of the London n^wsnapers r ' and seemed vary anxious to have the of * The Times'

defined in pennyweights and scruples. With the o'er-reaohlng power of the penny Presß he was especially impressed. " And now," said he, " what has brought you to China?" „ . " The anticipation of meeting your lixceito Pekinr he next «s][Arl "It is unnecessary," I said. "I have reached in Tientsin the fountain-head of knowledge. May I explain my mission? This Ib to get to the bottom of the Chinese trouble with the foreign residents, and to correot the false impressions which I hope have been formed of your Excellency.' "What impressions?" he asked, with nervous quickness. "The impression that you, whom we in England have for many years regarded as the friend of Queen Victoria, are now her enemy and the enemy of her people, ine impression " . . , " It is false "—(warmly)—" I am the friend of England still. It is lies you bring me; the invention of idle writers who do not know. What may I do to prove my sincerity ?" "Begin, your Exoeilency, by acquainting me with the causes of the trouble in the Yangtze Valley." This request having been interpreted to him, Li Hung Chang threw himself back in his chair, and with extraordinary volubility and evident fervor, speaking in a pleasant, rich voice, delivered his soul as follows : " The trouble i 3 aacribable to two causes —to the mhchiovoua curiosity of the French Catholic missionaries, and to the discontent of the unemployed soldiery. The Catholics are unpopular entirely through their own fault They take in children and have nuns, and interfere beyond their rights. They have in this way caused local irritation, and reports concerning their doings in the orphanages have circulated to their disadvantage. Since the close of the Taiping rebellion China has been saddled with thousands of discharged soldiers and ofheers. Originally there was a million of these men, and for a time they were in receipi of pay. Then the pay was discontinued, and that caused discontent, which has deopened into insubordination. These Boldiers want employment, and a war would enrich the officers. So they have taken advantage of the unpopularity of the 1' ranch missions to foment popular indignation in the hope of embroiling China in a war with the Powers all round. Ido not, myself, believe the charges brought against the missionaries, and certainly, if I can help it, there shall be no war. I very much regret the action, and, in fact, the existence of so many disorganised soldiers ; but the military conepiracy, of which the riots are the result, is one with which we have boldly set out to deal effectually." "It ia said, your Excellency, that personally you oro opposed to foreigner?, of whom you are rapidly weeding the public service." ,_, . "It Is true," replied the V that we do not employ so many English, Germans, and Frenchmen as we have done. But it is not trne that because Chinese have taken up the duties formerly performed by utrangers that either I or my colleagues want the Empire closed against your countrymen. I have always been attaohed to Englishmen. They are blunt, but they are honest, and I have the greatest respect for them." "Then I may take it, sir, that you have no objection to the presence of missionaries either in the Yangtze Valley or anywhere else in China, and that no conspiracy has been organised to ' Equoezu ' foreigners out of the Empire," "Undoubtedly. There is no gcnere.l agitation in the country, and the troubles, as I have explained, originate exclusively with a military conspiracy, which is using the missionaries to bring abont a foreign embroilment. But this conspiracy shall not succeed."

" I am exceedingly glad to have your pergonal authority for this assurance, your Excellency." "Not only so," continued the Luang Tang, warming to his work, " but we have taken the moat severe measures *ith the ringleaders in the recent riots. We have arrested and punished all we could lay hands upon. We have issued urgent Imperial decrees imposing upon the local viceroys the necessity for maintaining order by promptly and severely punishing all who break it. Further, as far as lay in our power we have repaired the injuries sustained by the former riots. We have ordered indemnities to be paid to the sufferers and to the families of the two men murdered in Hanan, one of whom was in the Chineao Customs. No less a sum than 20,000d0l were granted." «' All that sounds very satisfactory indeed, your Excellency. Perhaps you will tell me if you have given similar assurances to the Powers ?" «' Two months ago I telegraphed to the Chinese Minister in London to address a note to Lord Salisbury expressing our regret at the riots and assuring the British Chang Tang (Lord Salisbury) that every measure would be taken to ensure the protection of foreigners. I, in addition, telegraphed personally to the Foreign Minister to the tame purport, and generally we offered money iudemnities; and, so far as England was (Concerned, we caused our intentions to be made kiwwn through Sir Halliday M 'Cartney, who enlisted the aid of your esteemed journal for the purpose." " That is quite correct, your Excellency, and I am greatly obliged for the frankness with which you have answered my tiresome questions, But, even at the risk cf arousing your impatience, I should like to ask you a lew more questions." " I shall be very glad to answer you all questions you wish to ask me. Go on." And he called his pipe-bearer. "Well, air, with regard to the reported existence in China of a wide spread and deep-rooted revolution, allow me to invite your confidence upon this subject. I should perhaps explain that an impression exists amongst the foreign residents, and is not new to people at Home, that the riots are really the work of the Koloa Wuey, who, by weakening the Central Government with foreign Powers, would gnd a justification lor rising against the dynasty, I will even go further, sir, and say than an iajpreasion is current that members of the Government nave instigated the attaoka upon the foreigners for the same revolutionary ends." Li Hung [Chang sat very straight in bia chair as he replied to this question. "It is quite true," he said, "that there are secret societies in China. W here is there a European country that does not fester from th« same internal poison ? The Koloa Wuey was a powerful fraternity when it came into existence with the olose of the Eebellion. It was hsnast, and it was Tespectable. Now it b neither f it is a Tabble, and the weapon oi all who thrive upon tumult and disloyalty. The JjLoloa Wney has its supporters, who are also its victims. But it ia the utmost nonsense to think that either this society ox any other society, or all the societies combined, even if they could be combined, which iB humanly impossible, could overthrow the Empire. I speak with a perfect and an absolute knowledge and faith when I say that there ia no general discontent in China. And it is a misreading of the history of every one cf your European countries to aay that local disturbances shall not occur in China. For centuries China has bubbled in this way, and yet what is her position to-day ? She is stronger than she has ever been, and is richer. Forty years ago half of her army atill used bow 3 and arrows. Now it is •equipped with modem rifles; her fleet ia one of the moat serviceable for its duties in the world —it has Armstrong guns, torpedoes, and torpedo boats, and all other appliances { and the! national arsenals, stored to their roofs with war material, are crowded with workmen under competent masters. A general rising would ba crushed by our mastery of the corts, and an effective concerted attaoknpon the Emperor is oat of the question, I feel very strong in my confidence on tail subject." Thereupon the Chang Tang, or "grand old man/ called his pipe-bearer, who lit his long silver pipe, and His Excellency closing bis eyes drew several prolonged whiffs of «omfort After a decent Interval I retained to the attack through the interpreter. " I am sure your Excellency's description of the inner political life of China, which is onique for its simplicity, will be read with

the deepest interest and the greatest relief. May I, sir, now refer to a matter which I cannot bat think hangs on to the desire of those unworthy conspirators who desire a change of dynasty—this is, the intrigues of Russia on your Excellency's frontiers. Do you attach any itnportenoe to the advance upon the Pamir ?" "I do and Ido not. Of course, Russia la a positive danger. Her policy is one of advance of territory. It is devised not so muoh to the attainment of a present purpose as in preparation for a future purpose. We have had trouble with Russia before now. She has acquired territory, and generally she has acquired it when England has been in trouble at home. You suggest the possibility of Russia taking advantage of a revolutionary break up of the Manohu dynasty in order to secure some of the pieces. That is a oonceivable dream of Russia's. But there is nothing to my mind in the British idea that Russia desires a footing in China in order to provide herself with a grand trans-Siberian trans-Chinese road into India. Of course we two nations, China and England, might hold the key to that door. And there is nothing in my mind more rational than an alliance between two such Powers as China and Britain. Many years will have to elapse before Russia can eat her way I substantially into China, but her speculative operations upon the Pamir are interesting to the extent of pointing to the international folly of two Powers like Britain and China, with interests commercially identical, becoming involved in a roligiouß war, which seemed to be the thing aimed at by your wise men of peace." " Have you confidence," I asked, " in the foreign policy of Lord B.»Habary ?" "The most perfect conlideuce," was the reply. " Lord Salisbury says little, but he means much. Some of your statesmen say muoh and mean little." And this epigram of his appeared to greatly gratify the Viceroy, as he laughed and chuckled with evident self • appreciation. After this the conversation turned upon a serici of vice-regal inquiries as to the state of political parties in England, the date of the general election, and the probabilities of Mr Gladstone replacing Lord Salisbury. I was considerably surprised by the breadth of His Excellency's knowledge of English men and parties. He understands the meaning of representative government, though unwilling to extend it to the Chinese. Mr Gladstone's great age and physical powers excited some lively questions, and, ia particular, the Viceroy lifted hia hands as a sign of astonishment when I described the treefelling prowesa of the veteran statesman. AboutMrGladstone'seloquence,his manners, his dress, his income, his 'chough'(food), and his influence Li Hung Chang plied his interpreter with questions for me to answer. Finally, the Viceroy gave me this personal message to the English people. He said : " I charge you to tell ths British nation from me that I shall do all in my power to maintain peace between the people of China and the Europeans. I have done everything to secure order. The viceroys have received the moat urgent instructions to suppress every rising, and anyone who pops his head up will lose it also. Tell those who have sent you to China that the Emperor is friendly to the British, and wants them not as enemies but as allies. Do not believe the lies that aro written about us."

Suddenly Li Hung Chang asked me if I represented the Shanghai papers. I replied in the negative, adding that although I held letters of introduction to the editors of those I had refrained from presenting them until I had visited Tieutsin. "I am glad," said he, "you ure wise. The Shanghai papers are beneath attention. They poison the well of truth. Thtir editors know nothing of facts. They caunot speak Chinese, or write it or read it. They are consequently unable to reach true knowledge. They cannot go to the Chinese authorities, who know a».d could speak the truth for them. Their knowledge is derived from the merchants, who got them to say just what suits their interests. Have nothing to do with the Shanghai papers, and do not forget that the Koloa Wuey has no power but what it derives from disappointed men and disbanded soldiers."

I promised to obey, Li Hung Chang then pouring out his benedictions upon the British Minister at Pekin (Sir John Walsham), as the wisest and most estimable of iien. He warmly shook hands with your correspondent, and the interview, which had lasted two hours, closed, In the course of our conversation tea, cigarettes, and champagne were placed upon the table. Chinese etiquette prescribes th&t the visitor shall just sip the champagne, which is then returned to the bottle, and preserved for the next audience.

Turning back, I assured Li Hung Chang that I should always regard my interview with him aa the most notable incident of an eventful life. His Excellency, in reply, trusted that when I revisited China I would visit him again. A week later he Bent me a message through the British consul at Teintain (Mr Byron Brennan) assuring me that the Koloa Wuey had nothing whatever to do with the rebellion in the northern provinces.