THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

Evening Star, Issue 8483, 7 April 1891, Page 4

THE FEDERAL CONVENTION.

At yesterday afternoon's sitting, Mr B. C. Bird said he thought they would have as good men in the Senate as in the House of Representatives, and it waß Btrange that they should be debarred the right of expressing their opinions on the subject of taxation. Although he felt very strongly on the question of the powers the Senate should possess, members should not at the present time press thfcir opinions to such a point .as to exclude the colonies of Victoria and New South Wales and the present federation for ever. Under the existing form of the clause, he felt quite certain that the House would give every consideration to suggestions Bent down by the Senate; and while he favored the amendment, he would reoord his vote against it for the sake of securing federation. Mr Adye Douglas asked : Why should the small colonies say they would not come in ? Was it meant that these colonies wished to dominate the rest ?

Mr J, Forrest intimated that he would support the amendment. He thought it would be difficult to induce the (small colonies to join in the scheme when they were told that Victoria and New South Wales would have greater representation in the House than all the other colonies together, unless they were able to say that the Senate would have co-ordinate powers. He pointed out that members of the Convention at the present juncture were quite unprepared to say whether their people would ajoept or reject federation, and he hoped they would frame a constitution in the best way possible, and devise some means to obtain the opinion of the people on the subject! Mr T, Playford said they could not carry on responsible government with two Houses having co-ordinate powers; therefore, unless they were willing to flo away with responsible government, the House and Senate could not have co-equal powers. It was absurd to say that the small States would be ridden over rough-shod by the large States while they possessed equal representation in the Senate, and the latter would have all powers they ought to have. The people, he said, must rule, and members could not get away from that fact. Mr Baker withdrew his amendment, and proposed the omission of a word, which would still give the Senate power over money Bills. Sir J. Cox Bray thought it was a mistake to give the Senate power to touch money Bills. He believed the people of the smaller colonies had perfect confidence in the people of the larger colonies. The Government, he said, must be for the people by the people. Sir G. Grey considered the whole discussion was a mistake, and they would soon be discussing the question of liberties which did not exist. They could not have liberty while plural voting remained; and until that system was abolished he considered the constitutions they yvere calling into existence were a mere sham, and government for the people by the people could not obtain. Mr G. Dibbs supported the amendment, explaining that he had considerably changed the opinion he had held with regard to nominee Houses, and he favored the establishment of a powerful Senate. On a division the amendment was negatived by 22 to 16. Mr W. M'Millan moved two new subsections as follows :—(1) "In respect to laws appropriating necessary supplies for the ordinary annual service of Government, the Senate shall have powerto affirmerreject, but not amend " ; (2) " In respect to laws imposing taxation, the Senate shall have power to amend; but if any proposed law imposing taxation as amended by the Senate is afterwards returned to the Senate by the Honse, the Senate shall not have power to send the proposed law again to the House with any amendment in it to which the House has not agreed, but sha'l either affirm or reject." The amendment was negatived.

Mr Wrixon moved an addition—" That if the House declined to make the required amendment, the Senate may by resolution require a joint meeting of members of the two Houses, which shall be held, and the question at issue between the Senate and the House determined by a majority of the members present at such meeting," The amendment was negatived, and the clause passed without alteration. The recommendation that money votes should come by message from the GovernorGeneral was passed. The clauses referring to Royal assent were passed. Chapter 2, executive clause, providing that Ministers may sit in Parliament. Sir J. C. Bray moved that not less than two members sit in the Senate,—Negatived, and the clause passed. Number of Ministers, and salary and appointments of civil servants, were passed. The clause providing for the authority of the Executive, as reoast, now reads : " The exeoutive power and authority of the commonwealth extend to execution of the provisions of this Constitution and the laws of the commonwealth."—The clause as thus modelled was passed. Command of naval and military forces and immediate control of certain departments.— Passed.

Chapter 3, Judicature—Supreme Court. Mr Kingston moved the erection of a conciliation and arbitration court to deal with industrial disputes. Sir S. Griffith would like to know how such courts would not interfere with property and civil rights. Mr Deakin said that if the question were left to the Federal Parliament he thought it would bo less satisfactory than if loft to the States. There was necessarily a large amount of experimental legislation required, and it would be better to allow the States to do this. He should not discourage the several colonies dealing with the question in their own way. Mr Gillies thought it would be better to leave the question oyer, so as to enable the several Governments to consider the labor question and remit their conclusions to the Federal Parliament.

The amendment was negatived by 25 to 12.

Sir H, Atkinson and Captain Russell voted for the amendment. Sir G. Grey did not vote.

The clause relating to tenure of office of judges, appointment of judges, appellate jurisdiction, appeals may be made final was passed.

Mr Wrixon moved an amendment to the clause relating to appeal to the Queen in certain cases, with the object of reserving the rights of appeal to the Queen in any eases.

Mr Dibbs said that if federation were to accomplished under the Crown then they must have the right to appeal to the Privy Council. So long as they remained part of the British Empire one law must prevail. The amendment was negatived by 19 to 17. Sir fl. Atkttiiii o :and Captain Russell voted for G. Grey against it. '' • ;r The clause wa's carried. ." Clanse.relating ! 'tb / *th^ l of courts, original jurisdiction, hunjfier of judges, and trial by jury ,; H Progress was reported, and file Convention adjourned.