THE LICENSING ACT.

Evening Star, Issue 6033, 13 July 1882, Page 4

THE LICENSING ACT.

A public meeting, convened by His Worship the Mayor, was held in the Garrison Hall last evening to consider the proposed alteration of f he Licensing Act. About 500 persons were present. The platform was occupied by the following gentlemen:— Kevs. Dr Stuart, Dr Roseby, Wilson, Wadded, and White, and Messrs Stout, Torrance, Bolt, Jago, and Ronnie. Apologies were received from the Revs. W. Ronaldson and A. C. Gillies, J. Dumbell and A. North, Captain Scott, R.N., Messrs A. B. Maston and J. Horsburgh. His Worship, after stating the object of the meeting, expressed the opinion that as a whole the Act would work well, and it should have a fair trial. There might be a few faults in it, but on the whole the Act was a good one. It had been passed, in the interests of the general public, and should have a fair trial. Mr Stout said that it seemed to him that if their parliamentary institutions were to be ti success the members should sec that their constituents were taking a lively interest in their doings, and he believed that if the people of the Colony were to take more interest in what was being done in Wellington they would have far better government and far better laws. They had now met to discuss a question which every day was causing more discussion all over the civilised Avorld—the relation the State should take up with reference to the liquor traffic. The more this subject was talked about the better, for he did noi think much of any subject that would not; stand fair and temperate discussion. There were, he thought, two or three things which should not be forgotten. The first of these Avas tho great injury drunkenness was doing, even to our nation. They had all seen that a war had been commenced with Egypt. One of the main things that had led to it was that there were so many bondholders in England who did not see any way to get either theninterest or principal. The whole debt of Egypt, however, was but a trifle compared with the amount spent in England in intoxicating drink. The Egyptian debt was L 98,000,000, but there was wasted on drink in one year in England from 120 to 140 millions of money. Even in this Colony the sum of L 2,000,000 was spent annually in .>ink, the consumption of which was causing poverty, and immorality in our midst. After a great number of petitions had been presented and deputations had been sent in order that there might be some legislation that would have the effect of tending to free the Colony from the great blot on its life, an Act had been passed which gave the people power to lessen its °vils, and it was not fair or reasonable that an attempt should be made to abolish it before it had had an impartial trial. It might be true that under tho nominative system there had been better benches appointed; but it should be remembered that only one election had taken place, and that if mistakes had been made thoy could easily lie remedied in future. The discussion of the question which was raised every year by the elections would have a good effect in educating the people on the subject. Mr Stout spoke strongly in favor of retaining the elective principle, and moved—" That in the opinion of this meeting the present Licensing Act should in the meantime be continued in its present state, but if any amendments are made in the Act they should not deprive the people of the right of control over the traffic they now possess, nor lessen the restrictions imposed on the sale of alcoholic liquor."— (Applause.) The Rev. Dr Roseky said that if he had not been a temperance advocate he would still support the Act as embodying the principle of self-government. It was as a citizen and a believer in popular rights that he protested against depriving the people of the power they possessed of controlling the traffic in intoxicating liquor.-;. The whole yet and tendency of modern legislation was in the teeth of nomineeisin, the days of which were numbered.

Mr H. J. Walter, while lie greatly deplored the vice of drunkenness, and did all in his power to discourage it, differed entirely from the speakers in reference to the elective clause. It was nonsense to say that if a law was oppressive, barren, and absurd they should wait three or four years "to give ita. fair -fcria.l. A. more a,l>£;-urtl suggestion could not possibly be made. In one place not far away the Committee bad granted a license to a man who had not conducted his house properly, and who was reported against by the police, while they had refused to grant a license to a man whose house, according to the police reports, had been exceptionally well conducted. Mr Walter mentioned cases in which it was possible that the power placed in the hands of licensing committees might be abused, and expressed the opinion that the opinion that it was far better that the judicial function of granting or refusing licenses should be vested in an independent magistracy, in the hands of gentlemen altogether unconnected with the trade, and uninfluenced either by the Good Templars or the Licensed Victuallers. It would, he thought, be admitted on all hands that the elective system had proved a lamentable failure.— (Cries of "No "and "Yes.") He moved—- '' That in the opinion of this meeting elective committees having proved a most lamentable failure, it is desirable that the clause relating thereto should be amended, and that the nominative system be re-intro-duced." Mr Watson seconded the amendment. He considered it monstrous that a legitimate business should be hampered with many of the restrictions imposed by the Act. He had no strong feeling regarding elective committees, but considered that the elections had shown that the system was a complete failure. Anyone who carried on the business of an hotel properly conferred a benefit on die public, and he considered that he was as useful a unit as anyone else in the community.

lux Carroll also spoke in support of the amendment. Considering the temptation it was admitted there was in the business, he thought much credit was due to the licensed victuallers for the way in which their houses were conducted. He thought it unfair that drastic measures which imperilled hundreds of thousands of pounds' worth of property should have been passed without the voice of the trade being considered. A3 to expenditure on drink, he thought it was a good thing for the Colony that so much was spent; while the speakers had very little reason to complain, since very little of their money went in that direction.—(Applause.) The elective principle was Republican, and contrary to our Constitution. Mr Jago said the question seemed to be one of " public versus publicans."—(Cries of "No, no," and "Yes." He did not wish to say so in any offensive sense, but that was the fact. —(Continued interruption.) The speakers had represented the public on one eide, and on the other they had all been publicans.—(lnterruption and applause.) Mr Walter said that had he known that it would have been put as a question "public versa* publicans," he would have sat down quietly and have listened to all the silly speeches. —(A Voice : "It's Good Totnplars versus publicans.") Mr Jago would have supported the motion if he had not been a teetotaller, on the ground that the Act was consistent with the principle of local self-government. Imputations had been made against the elective committees, but had the nominated commissioners never been got. at ?—(Cries of "No " ; "Yes !" from Mr Lloyd, and interruption.) Mr Mallard hero came forward, and said that he had no intention of speaking, but Mr Jago's assertion was of such a dreadful nature that he was compelled to ask, before Mr Jago went further, who were the nominated commissioners that had been got at ? (Applause.) Mr Jago said that, hypothetical allegations having been made against elective committees, he had asked, in reply, " Were nominated commissioners never got at ?" If Mr Mallard was prepared to say that throughout New Zealand none had ever been improperly influenced, then he would withdraw anything implied by his question, and would admit that nominated benches were more immaculate than he had supposed. Mr Mallard had no wish to come forward prominently in connection with this question, but as it seemed to be desired that he should cive his opinion upou it, he would make a~few remarks, He was, as was well

known, a temperate man, and was not a partisan on one side or the other. One thing that struck him in the new Licensing Act was that with its introduction their ground for boasting that there was no taint of eonvietism in the legislative enaetmentß of the Colony was destroyed, for one of its clauses had evidently been taken from an old ponal Act that had been in force in New South Wales in 181)8. The clause was that which directed the endorsement of offences on the license—a clause which placed a terrible power in the hands of the authorities. It they abolished the whole of the licenses they would soon have stills in every valley, sly grog-shops in every street, and no end of trouble from one section of the community being set against the other—a state of things that would require the expenditure of a large amount of money to put down.— (Applause.) The Rev, l")r Sttart had not intended taking any part in the meeting, but would do so, seeing the turn matters had taken. He looked upon the meeting as a meeting of citizens—not as composed of the public and the publicans, but ns composed entirely of citizen?. "Whilst lie was prepared to support out-and-out the motion of Mr Stout, he was anything but sorry to sec that Mr Walti-r had brought forward an amendment, and was extremely well pleased to see that he had the courage to speak as he had spoken. He believed that as long as public-houses would be tolerated in the community Mr Walter's house would be the last to go. He was, however, astonished to hear Mr Walter, Mr Watson, and Mr Carroll avow an opinion so completely contrary to what was held by the very best of men as a correct opinion, viz., that the people should govern themselves. The people were entrusted with the election of law-makers ; with the election of Mayors, councillors, and school committees, and in his Church, with the election of their ministers ; but publichouses were such awfully sacred things that they must not be dealt with in the same way. —(Laughter and applause.) The people of the City and Colony had hitherto stood up for popular government, and now they were told that here was one little department with which the people must have nothing to do. He believed it was no more possible to make men sober by Act of Parliament than it was to make them religious by the same means ; but there was a difference between attempting to make people sober by law and simply allowing the people to say whether publichouses should be multiplied. The amendment on being put was lost, 52 hands being held up in favor of it, and the original motion was carried by a very large majority. Mr Carroll then moved as a substantive motion—"That theclause of the Act referring to the endorsement of convictions upon the license should be amended bo as to leave the question of endorsement at the discretion of the Bench." Mr Stout mentioned that he had no objection to this motion. Mr Watson seconded tho motion, but on being put it was lost, 46 voting for and 58 against it. On the motion of the Rev. Mr Waddei.l, a motion was passed requesting the Mayor to forward the resolution which had been passed to the City members, and to ask them to give it their hearty support in the event of any attempt being made to amend tho Licensing Act. A vote of thanks to His Worship the Mayor closed the proceedings.