DOMINION'S DEFENCE

Evening Post, Volume CXXVIII, Issue 18, 21 July 1939, Page 5

DOMINION'S DEFENCE

SIZE OF LAND FORCE

OPINIONS DIFFER

It was clear that opinions differed regarding the size that the land forces of the Dominion should be advanced to as the discussion on defence progressed in the Address-in-Reply debate in the House of Representatives yesterday. Government members argued that sufficient was being done, but Opposition criticism was pointed at the 16,000 men for the Territorial Force, and the statement was made that all young men in the country should be trained. The claim that this could not be done through lack of modern equipment was countered by the statement that such equipment would be made available if war came and the man-power of the country should be trained to use it.

Criticising the Government's defence! policy, Mr. J. Hargest (National, Awarua) quickly found himself under fire. Despite frequent appeals for order by Mr. Speaker, there was a: prolonged exchange of shots between Mr. Hargest and the Ministerial benches. Mr. Hargest said that the Minister i of Defence (the Hon. F. Jones) had covered a great deal of ground in the 1 review he had given of the prepara- i tions made by New Zealand to defend i itself, but the basis of his argument i had been unsound. He had tried to tell the people of the Dominion that he could build an air force by spending money. Mr. Jones: I said nothing of the sort.' DEFENCE EXPENDITURE. j Mr. Hargest: That is what the Minis- j ter said in effect. He is going to spend' £4,000,000 on the Navy and another £4,000,000 on the Air Force. Mr. Jones: And I've got something to show for it. Mr. Hargest: There was talk of defending New Zealand with thirty bombers. If sixty came this way the end would be in sight before the fight began. The Minister of Education (the Hon. P. Fraser): What we have done has been done on the advice of the best experts the British Government could send us. Mr. Hargest: Is the Minister an expert? Mr. Fraser: I have no more claim to be an expert than you yourself. After the Speaker had called for order, Mr. Hargest asked if the responsible officers of the Defence Department were in agreement with the Minister's policy of voluntary training. Mr. Jones: In full agreement. They have not expressed any opinion otherwise. Mr. Hargest: I accept the Minister's statement. He added that the Opposition had been criticised for holding a different view of military training from that of the Government. "Are we not entitled to criticise?" he asked. "Surely we have the right to tell the people what we think of the defence system of the country."..-.,. Mr. Jones: You are not helping recruiting. OPPOSITION'S PART. Mr. Hargest: Every member of the Opposition has done his best to assist recruiting. We do not want any thanks for what we have done, nor do we want it said that we have damaged recruiting because we do not agree with the voluntary system. Mr. Hargest asked what would be the use of the National Reserve which the Minister was endeavouring to establish. It could not be called up for defence, he said. The Government's job was to obtain and tx'ain men of the fighting age between twenty and forty years. There would be no point in having a National Reserve, he added, unless there were men who were fit and trained to fight. The Government was only playing %vith the idea of defence. * "The Government's way is not the way to put up a convincing show," Me went on. "By calling up men of fiftyfive years of age when the young men are evading their responsibility, the Government is merely playing to the gallery. That is not the way to handle the Defence Department." Mr. Hargest said the Minister of Defence had declared his pride in the traditions of the New Zealand Army, but was he not the Minister who had destroyed the New Zealand battalions? The Minister had reduced four battalions with colours and colonels at their head to mere skeleton companies. TRAINING OFFICERS. "At a time when New Zealand was badly in need of young officers," claimed Mr. Hargest, "the units from which they were being drawn were smashed by the Minister. From the secondary schools and the technical i colleges came the young men who developed into artillery officers. But those units were destroyed by the Mint ister. That is what lie was to answer [for today." CONDITION OF FORCES. The Minister had said that he had found the defence forces in a deplorable condition. So he did, said Mr. Hargest, and he himself believed that I they had gone back ever since the I compulsory system was abolished and J that the Minister had not improved 1 them until he was forced to by public opinion. Under compulsion every man was compelled to be an efficient soli dier, but today not more than 25 per cent, could be termed efficient. In 1927-28 there were 22,483 men and today the Minister had 11,000, and half of them did not attend parades. Because of their contract with the State the 22,383 men in training in 1927-28 were compelled to become efficient soldiers; today the 11,000 men could come and [go as they pleased. I Mr. Jones: I say that the men of today are better trained.' Mr. Hargest: And I say that they are not as well trained as they were under compulsion. The Opposition was behind the Government in trying to build up an efficient defence force, whether by compulsion or by voluntary service, but what encouragement had they received from the Minister? He was simulating some anxiety about the position because he had been forced to do so by the pressure of public opinion encouraged by the Defence League. What was the Minister's attitude towards the Defence League? At one time there had been talk of suppressing the league, not by the Minister but by others Now the Minister was asking the same people to get behind the Government in its defence efforts. The Opposition had never been linked up with the Defence League, said Mr. Hargest. LOCAL DEFENCE. Dealing' with the local defence schemes, Mr. Hargest asked what system was to be adopted in the event of mobilisation. There could be no harm in telling the public what was expected of them. The Minister should release Major-General Mackesy's report and let the people know how good, or bad

the defence position was in his eyes. Did he say anything about the contract between the State and the soldier? Today a soldier signed up and if he did not like the job he could walk out and the State had no means of recouping itself for any expenditure that had been incurred. Three thousand men had walked out last year and probably there would be as many this year. That was the weakest link in the defence system today. Under compulsion a man would be obliged to jerve for three years, and at the end of that period, when he was turned out, the State could say that he was an efficient soldier available if called upon. "We do want man-power and we cannot get man-power and hold it under the present voluntary system,'-' Mr. Hargest concluded. "If we are going to hold this country we must be prepared to defend it and we cannot do that unless every man is ready and willing to go into the ranks. It is no use going into the ranks unless he is trained, and all of them cannot be trained unless we have a system of universal military training. That is the system that the Opposition and thousands of people who support the Labour Party stand for." APPEAL TO WOMEN. An appeal to the women of New Zealand to assist the recruiting campaign was made by Mr. W. J. Lyon (Government, Waitemata). "The women should help us to get the men into uniform," he said. "The young girl is too keen to occupy the whole time of a young fellow, but if she can be made to realise that she is helping New Zealand by inducing the young man to train so that he can take his place in the ranks should necessity arise, she will be doing something worth while." Mr. Lyon said that one of the weaknesses of the Territorial organisation was the shortage of men between the ages of 23 and 35 years, and when ! those men joined up they should be given every encouragement. When thej Great War was. fought organisations throughout New Zealand were formed to send supplies to the men who had j gone overseas. He suggested to the! Mayors of New Zealand, and others who had helped before, to do something now for the Territorial soldier. Funds should be raised for the provi- i sion of recreation rooms, clubs, and the like. It was necessary to build up the social side if soldiering was to be- i come popular. Everybody should 1 accept the position that the Territorial was carrying out a worth-while job and that he was of value to the community. Mr. A. G. Hultquist (Government. Bay of Plenty) said that he believed that compulsion was not necessary in order to get the number of men required. "I do believe, though, that when a man volunteers his services he should be compelled to stand by the obligations he enters into. He should be made to realise that he has certain obligations. Many believed that they were being called upon to fight a capitalist war, and for that reason they are holding back and saying, 'Let the capitalists fight their own war.'" PREPARATION RATE. Giving the reason why the Opposition had included reference to defence in the no-confidence amendment before the House, the Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates (National, Kaipara) said that the Opposition was dissatisfied with the rate at which the defence of Ne\v Zealand was being prepared. In his opinion 16,000 men were not sufficient for the circumstances in which the country found itself today. The efforts of the Government might be perfectly sincere, but the Opposition considered that universal training was the better method in the present crisis. The fact that the United Kingdom was spending nearly £700,000,000 in one year showed that there was a crisis, and if that were not sufficient, the fact that the United Kingdom was training every man and woman for defence in the event of war should convey to New Zealand the seriousness of the position. The Empire had never before called upon its citizens to protect the Commonwealth of Nations and the people within that Commonwealth. New Zealand should bring her defence forces up to the point where they could do their duty in war. It was the duty of every member of Parliament to face up to that fact and inform the people of the country that there was danger and that it was up to them to come along and give a hand in defence. Everyone in New Zealand must be impressed .at the speed with which the nations were arming. What was New Zealand doing? he asked. The time had arrived when all young men should join" the Colours and the women should also train for service, but they had not been asked to help, although they could do much for the defence of the country. How would New Zealanders feel if the worst happened, and they were not trained to meet the situation? he asked. "Let us try the volunteer system if we cannot have the other, and make the best of it," said Mr. Coates. "In these days we cannot afford to lose any time." NOT IMMUNE. Some members claimed that New Zealand was completely immune from attack, Mr. Coates continued, but when it was remembered that the whole Pacific was dotted with islands, and when they realised that a nearby nation believed it could take control of part of a continuent. how could they say that that nation would not try to take New Zealand? No one could speak with certainty. Mr Coates said that he did not believe New Zealand would be cut off from the rest of the Empire if war broke out. During the last war transports had been taken through seas infested by submarines and when there was a threat of attack the Navy had appeared out of the blue and not a transport had been lost. He could not believe that the same effort would not be made again, and it was up to New Zealand to carry out her undertaking with the Committee of Imperial Defence made in 1926, and which, so far as he knew, had never been altered.

The Prime Minister had said that if the United Kingdom was at war New Zealand was at war, and when the United Kingdom was making such . stupendous preparations for defence New Zealand should also do as much as possible. New Zealand might not have modern equipment for all of the men available for training, but it would be deplorable if New Zealand had not got the trained men to use the equipment that would undoubtedly be made available in time of war.

Mr. Coates concluded his comments on defence by saying that he considered the Government should take the House and the people more into its confidence, because if the people realised the seriousness of the position they would come forward and help. The House and its members had a responsibility to advise the citizens of New Zealand. The young men of the country could not have too much training, and when it was remembered that bombs and gas played a part in modern warfare it would be realised that the ordinary citizens should also be trained.