USE OF INCREASE

Evening Post, Volume CXXIV, Issue 90, 13 October 1937, Page 19

USE OF INCREASE

SOCIAL SERVICES

MINISTER'S DEFENCE

REDUCTION NOT POSSIBLE

Emphasising the fact that the mcreased'taxation was being spent in improving the .social services, the Minister of Education (the Hon. P. Fraser) asked the Leader of the Opposition and his colleagues to specify any particular item where expenditure could be reduced, and where the Opposition would vote for it to be reduced.

Mr. Fraser said that no Government could justifiably levy on the people of the country taxes that were not needed and that could not be wisely |-spent.

If 'the ,members of the Opposition ( said that the taxation and expenditure j policy of the country under the present j Government was staggering, that it , showed extravagance and waste of 1 money, and that the national was not being spent to the best advantage—if that were the Opposition's y claim—then he asked them, in all fairness, to state where the expenditure Was wrong, where the exr enditure was J excessive, and what items the'Opposi- i tion objected to. . ' "Last year the Leader of the Opposi- ] tion and his colleagues had ample i ' opportunity to oppose the Estimates," i saia Mr. Fraser. "There were on those i Estimates provisions for increased ex- < penditure on social services. I have no recollection of the Opposition opposing , those increases. There was no division taken when the Pensions Bill was ' introduced and discussed. That legis- ' . lation made provision for increased pensions, and also made provision for ' the invalidity Tension for the first time, and in general made better pro- ■ vision for the more unfortunate sec- ' tion of the community. The Opposition did not oppose that. Now they 1 contend that the increased expenditure 1 voted with .their consent is staggering, ! Do they 1 oppose it now? Are they pref [ pared to vote for a reduction in pen--1 sions expenditure,- ' • ' Mr. Hamilton: I'did not use the word ' "staggering" in this speech; I did 'in ' my Budget speech. , ■ Mr. Fraser: I have taken a note of , it here..'. v 1 Mr. Poison: What about the good \ Australian, adjective? I WHAT WAS OPPOSED? 1 Mr.'Fraser went on to say that if the I Opposition would not vote for a reduc- ; tion' of then it could not f objecVto the'taxation required to meet • that expenditure.' The Opposition had [ been asked repeatedly what it object ; ed to, but the Leader said, "No, that is; ' my little secret; wait until we reach ' the Estimates." ' ! "Take defence," continued Mr! !" Fra'ser.. "Does the Leader of the Opi position'object to the expenditure on defence?" . 1 Mr. Hamilton: No; but do they al} , approve of it on your side? • ! Mr. Fraser: He approves of that. We \ are"convinced" that it is absolutely ! essential. What we believe to be the . base of an effective defence "force has been laid for the first time. I take it that the Opposition is 100 per cent. with us in that.. I am sure they will not move-for any reduction in the j Defence Vote, because ' their defeat - would be overwhelming. | Mr. Fraser went on to refer to the . increased' grants for social services, r such as health and education, remarkj ing that the overcrowding of the j' mental hospitals was not a credit to e the country. t "If the country wants these e ments in our social services, and it has indicated that it does, then they must be paid for," said the Minister. "It is , political hypocrisy if with one breath 7 they ask for these things and then '' object to paying for them. It is com- ° ing very near to insincerity. e "To vote against the provisions for - these services is to vote against the n services," he added. "The Leader of y the Opposition is not prepared to vote e against a Bill that makes provision 1- for these social services, and I say that d when we come to the Estimates the I-' grants will. not be objected to. How e can he say It is extravagant when it is carrying out what he and his colr - leagues approved of—at least, on the d surface. " FINANCE NEEDED. d "How can expenditure be reduced?" y asked Mr. Fraser. "I would like to n get more money for health and educas- tion. If it can be shown to me where le waste is taking place in those servioes K I will see that that waste is stopped. l ie tt is difficult to get sufficient money '.' to -use beneficially on those services. '" I would like the Leader of the Opposition to; be quite frank and tell us s- what be objects to." . n "The Minister said that no one could ' say that taxation methods were per-' *} feet, or that the system could. not ■ bej » improved. . For that purpose a com-i mittee had been inquiring into the )t incidence of taxation, and any suggesst tions would bz welcomed. "The Gova ernment does not want to levy a penny

more in taxation than is required, but it will certainly levy, and get, every penny that is required to maintain the social services of the country and benefit the people generally. I ask the Leader of the Opposition to specify where expenditure can be reduced. We have, -an Opposition that says that the Government should not increase expenditure, but will not give us any guidance as to where expenditure can be reduced. We are looking forward to the time when we reach the Estimates. I ask them to show opposition to the big items of Government policy —education, health, pensions—and if they do not do that they will be found at the end of the session, not challenging, but acquiescing in—certainly not opposing—the Government's social policy, .and the provision for additional expenditure, as in this BUI." IF REVENUE FALLS.

Mr. Hamilton: How can you continue the expenditure when the revenue falls? ■ I Mr. Fraser: I| am not prepared to answer that in detail. We did not slash old age pensions and make the struggle for the pensioners harder, as the previous Government did. We did not reduce .educational facilities. Mr. Poison: Tell us what you did do!

Mr. Fraser: We did not try to save the country by ruining the teeth of our children; we did not reduce wages; we did not throw thousands of men on the .unemployment market. The Leader" of' the r Opposition and his colleagues, by their policy when they were the .Government, have shown us what to avoid. . jlr S. G. Holland (National, Christchurch North): Will you tell us now wtiat you did do?

<Mr. Fraser: -No, I am not prepared to say. what we did Jo, at the present mtyment I can say that we are utilising our entire resources to protect the lives of the people of this country from the impact- of any international catastrophe, and if there were an international depression we would not use our legislative powers to make the impact on our people worse.

"I'know people whose minds are immersed in orthodox economics and can see no way out. We can, and we believe that the actions of the Government have shown that we can. We believe that the whole policy of the Government will lessen the effect of any international catastrophe on our people. "I,rose mainly for the purpose of asking -> the - Opposition if * the Government has not-spent the money.wisely apd has not made the best use of the levy: and the Consolidated Fund, io pbint -out. where the expenditure should be reduced," added the Minister; : "There is no use them making the''Welkin ring, .with screams, -and screeches about, the extravagance of the- Government Until they come djpwn to exact details and'say to us: 'We think you are wrong in this, and-we will move that it should be reduced, j