NATIVE MINISTER

Evening Post, Issue 99, 24 October 1934, Page 10

NATIVE MINISTER

ATTITUDE OF MEMBERS

SIR A. T. NGATA'S POSITION

HOUSE WANTS REPORT

Appreciation of the generous attitude members displayed towards him and the Native Department when discussing the Native Department Estimates, was expressed by the Nativo Minister (Sir Apirana Ngata) in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon, when the Native Land Settlement Account was under consideration. Labour members protested against being asked to pass Estimates relating to Native administration before the report of the Royal Commission on Native Affairs was presented to Parliament. Replying, Sir Apirana said that ho was not responsible for tho fact that tho Estimates of the Native Land Settlement Account were beforo the Chamber prior to a discussion on the Royal Commission's report. He expressed his willingness to answer questions in reference to the account, but, at the same time, ho said he understood tho difficulties of members in asking questions, and was cognisant of his own difficulty in answering-them. "I think it is about time something was done iv regard to the way the affairs of the House arc conducted," said Mr. R. McKcen (Labour, Welling ton South). He said that the Commission had presented its report, and members were being asked to deal with Estimates that might havo a bearing on the recommendations of the Commission. Surely, it was unfair to ask the House to deal with the matters under those circumstances. "It is the wrong method of doing business," he said, "and matters like this should be dealt with when the House has dealt with the report." PAIR TREATMENT. Mr. W. A: Vcitch (Independent, Wanganui) said that there had never been a case; like the present case, where the Nativo Minister had received such fair treatment from tho House. Ho understood that tho report of the Commission was in the hands of the Government, and it was not even courtesy to the House to bring the Estimates forward at the moment. The Estimates could bo passed in February. The House was entitled to judge whether it would vote the money or not after it had read the report of the Koyal Commission. It could not be denied that the report of the Auditor-General, on which the Royal Commission was set up The Chairman of Committees (Mr. S. G. Smith): Wo cannot go into that, here. Mr. Vcitch said that it could not be denied that the administration of the Native Department was outstanding in New Zealand politics. "There never has been such a case before," he said, "and I would rather not have said that." Tho Government would havo been wise to have taken a moro constitutional course than that of forcing tho Estimates through the House. Mr. R. Semplo - (Labour, Wellington East) said ho wanted to record his protest against the tactics used by the Government. The House had shown patience, tolerance, and moro than fair play as far as tho Native Department was concerned, and it seemed to him that because of that tho patience of members was to bo stretched to a point that was almost insufferable. The policy of the Department had been under serious investigation, and the House was called on to pass thousands of pounds. "I hope I will havo an opportunity of telling the House and the country what I think of the whole business later on," he said. "It is a monstrous thing to ask public men to vote away tens of thousands of pounds of public money in view ot tho fact that tho Department has been under grave suspicion, and that there has bocii a most searching investigation. The Chairman: Order! Mr. Semple said that members should know more about the matters before they were asked to exercise their votes. Surely, that was the proper businesslike thing to do. Members should havo had an opportunity of perusing the report before voting. Tho Chairman: Order! OVERSTEPPING THE MARK. Mr. Scrapie: I quite understand I am overstepping the mark. With the limits one has had built round himself in this House it is almost impossible to express an opinion. It would be just as well to say that we arc dummies. The Chairman: The honourable gentleman cannot attempt to make his own rules. Mr. Semple: To my mind it's a scandal of the greatest magnitude, and I hope when tho report does eomewc will have tho opportunity of telling the world what we think. Mr. J. A. Nash (Government, Palmerston North) said that the House had had a discussion on tho matter when the main Estimates wero being considered. Tho Estimates had to go through. How could the affairs of the Native Department proceed if the Estimates wore held up? It was far short of a public scandal, and ho thought it was overstepping tho mark to make such a suggestion. Supply must be granted. The Leader of tho Opposition (Mr. M. J. Savage) said that the House was being asked to do more than keep the Department going. "We are add--ing considerably to the amount asked for," ho said. Iv ono scheme £22,072 had been spent last year, and this year £33,711 was being asked for. It was not unreasonable to request that the House should know the position beforo being nsked to vote the money. "I know that this request has been made before," he said, "and I definitely say that it will bo mado again from one end of tho country to the other." Last year .£45,490 was spent for subsidies of relief works carried out on development schemes, including administration, and this year £81,821 was being asked for. "These things may be all right, but we don't know," ho said. "Wo have read the evidence in the newspapers, and that is tho only way wo havo of finding out anything." Mr. Vcitch said that if the Estimates were not passed till next year tho work of tho Native Department would go on just tho same. Mr. Nash: What about departmental .expenditure? Mr. Vcitch: It will go on till the House passes the Estimates. I want to draw attention to tho cavalier manner in which tho House is being treated in connection with this unique incident in the political history of New Zealand. The Minister would have been wise not to have created the situation that has arisen again this afternoon. MINISTER'S OPINION. The Native Minister } (Sir Apirana Ngata) said that he acknowledged the generosity that members had displayed towards the Department and to himself. The Estimates before tho House wero not the Estimates of the Nativo Department, but of the Native Land Settlement. Board, which had on it four heads of Departments, as well as tho Minister, the Under-Secretary for Nativo Affairs, and two laymen. They had spent- four months on tho Estimates beforo tho details were completed. Prior to last year's alterations, the Estimates would have, been submitted as one of the separate loan ac-

counts, but now the account was an account within the Public Works Account. The business of the House was a matter entirely for tho Prime Minister, and as an cx-Ministor, Mr. Vcitch knew that, said Sir Apirana. A Minister was fortunate if he knew before midday or 1 p.m. whether he was to bo called on in the afternoon or not. "I am not responsible for the fact that the Estimates of the Native Land Settlement Account are before this Chamber bofore tho discussion takes place on the report of tho Native Land Commission," said the Minister. "The report was in the hands of the Government some time today. I have not seen it; I havo not asked for it, and am as ignorant as my friends on tho Labour side of the House of its contents." Tho Minister expressed his willingness to answer any qucstious as Minister in charge of tho Estimates. "I understand the difficulties of members in asking questions and of tho Minister in answering them till tho report of the Commission is in tho hands of Parliament," ho said. "Is the concern of tho House with ! tho amount of money voted, or something else?" he asked. He pointed .out that the Estimates provided for £90,000 less than the House was called on to vote last year. The operations could not be stopped in a month, or six months. Even if tho programme were suspended, certain things had to be carried on, such as the purchase of stock. "The Estimates now before the Committee reflect tho work, not of the Minister, who is under a cloud and who is on trial, but the work of four heads of Departments and laymen who concentrated on every detail," he said. "I am sorry that for the second time it has become necessary to discuss this question in the manner in which it has been discussed this afternoon, but I would like to acknowledge again the generosity members have displayed to the Department and to the.Minister." Mr. E. T. Tirikatene (Independent, Southern Maori) said that ha was sorry, tho Government, had so little tact as to allow tho Estimates to bo discussed prior to the report of the Commission. Mr. Semple, referring to tho Minister's remarks about "something else," said that as far as he (Mr. Semplo) was concerned, thero was no feeling nwninst the Nativo Minister or tho Department. The principle adopted was wrong. Tho Estimates wero passed.