CUTTING DOWN EXPENSES

Evening Post, Volume CXI, Issue 95, 23 April 1931, Page 7

CUTTING DOWN EXPENSES

SECOND FINANCE BILL

MORE LABOUR CRITICISM

Mr. P. Eraser (Labour, Wellington Central) said the Government was attacking essential Government services, and people who could least afford to pay. Tho Bill might cause great ingustice to married women teachers. It would be wrong for education boards to refuse married women teachers employment regardless of their : economic position. He deprecated tho proposal to abolish junior national scholarships, and said ho hoped it would bo taken to a division and defeated. Mr. JYaser also objected to the provision that the Minister of Education "may" establish bursaries for secondary and higher education. Ho considered_ that the Bill .'.was1 detrimental to tho interests of the community. Mr. R. A. Wright (Reform, Wellington Suburbs) said that all would agree ■n-ith the necessity of balancing tho Budget, but many would disagree with the method which had been adopted. ' They wondered whether the Prime Minister had told them everything, and •whether another Finance Bill would be introduced. It was desirable that the ' real position and the remedies pro;, posed should be placed before tho House at the same time, so that they could

consider the whole question. There — yias a very substantial increase in the Statutory limit to Treasury bills, and was the Government sure that the revenue which was anticipated would be : realised? The fact that the profits on private businesses had been curtailed made the position hazardous. The people •were in the same position as the Government, and the Minister of Finance should realise this. It was unfortunate that the Government had increased the limit of Treasury bills. . The ac-' climatisation societies were entitled to , .more consideration than they were get-1 . ting under the Bill, was most un.jju'st that the money the societies earned last year should be confiscated. In many cases the societies had expended ■their revenues in beneficial work, and thus the intention of the Government •would leave the societies in the air. No warning had been given to the societies, and thus the announcement by the Government carao as a thunderbolt. The Hon. W. D. Stewart (TJcfovm, Dunedin West): "I understood that the matter had been fixed up." The Minister' of Internal Affairs (the Hon. P. A. dc la Perrelle): "Yes, that as so." Mr. "Wright said ho was not sure that the matter had been fixed up, but he hoped that tho Government would not do an injustico to the societies. EDUCATION ECONOMIES. Mr.. Wright criticised tho abolitioivof the Education Purposes; Loans Act, 1919, and tho transfer or* the fund to the Public Works Fund. ■ It seemed that the Education Department would not get as much money as in the past for capital expenditure. The House was entitled to some explanation of the proposal. He did not have much fault to find with the abolition of the Council,,'of Education. The council had been, a good one, but as it liad .no

The second reading debate on the Finance Bill No. 2 was continued in the House of Representatives last night. In the main the strongest criticism of the Bill came from Labour members, who objected to the taking of money from the State Departments, 'the - amendments to the educational system, and the proposals in connection with the National Provident Fund and the family allowances. ■

executive powers and no money it could do nothing but pass pious reso- | lutions. The council had itself felt : that it was tho fifth wheel of the coach, and it would not lie opposed to I abolition. He agreed with tho aboli-i tion of tho household school, because tho correspondence system was I adequately catering for the back- \ block children. In the house- , hold school tho cost per pupil was £15 per year, whereas the cost under the correspondence school was £7 per pupil. He hoped the Minister of Education would place the teachers in tho correspondence schools on the \ same footing as the teachers in ordinary schools. Mr. Wright considered that the power given to tho education boards to refuse to employ married women teachers might be exorcised drastically. , ~ The Minister of Education: "It won t operate in any case where the woman is the breadwinner." Mr Wright said ho hoped that tho Government would give some indication to local bodies of what it desired in connection with earthquakeresistiug building bylaws. There would not be much opposition to the abolition of the senior and junior national scholarships, as secondary education was practically free for all. A NEW'ZEALAND MINT. Mr W. Nash (Labour, Hutt) asked why it was necessary to increase the amount that could be raised .in lreaß-, ury bills. Ho would like to know what the Primo Minister would do if the banks refused to take up tho Treasury bills The Government should inquire closely into the possibility or establishing a New Zealand mint, as suggested by the member tor Egmont | (Mr. C. A. Wilkinson). Mr. Nash took exception to the proposed amendment in respect of the family allowances, and said that no family of less than seven children would receive as-1 sistanee.' Every penny that the Government would save by the provision would mean hardship to somebody. He took exception to the proposal to place tho Census and Statistics Department under the Department of Industries and Commerce, and said tho former Department should be' absolutely independent. Mr. Nash expressed the hopo that tho money previously used for scholarships would bo made available for bursaries. Mr. Nash concluded by urging the Government lo help forthwith tho National Provident Fund. Mr. T. Makitanara (United, Southern Maori) congratulated the Prime | Minister on tho 15111. After referring to tho abolition of the "Maori Gazette" ("Te Ktiliiti"), ho went on to say that a petition had been signed by over 35,000 Natives, for presentation to the House, seeking to secure to the Maoris ; their fishing rights. , The Treaty of Waitangi gave to tho Maoris tho undisturbed right to the fisheries, including oysters, mussels, and other ■ shellfish. Ho objected to Natives being } gaoled for fishery offences, when under tho Treaty they had clear rights «'A DANGEROUS PRACTICE." ' Mr. D. " Jones (Reform, Mid-Canter-bury) urged that more information should be furnished on the country's

finances before the House discussed the Bill. Ho considered it was very dangerous for the Government to announce prospective deficits, as it had boon doing; it tended to destroy tho country's credit and cause wrong impressions abroad, especially in Great Britain. The reports of the Prime Minister's pronouncements, as cabled to London, had clearly, stated that there was to-bo a,, deficit of £3,000,000 or £4,000,000. The Minister of Lands (the Hon. fc. A. Hansom): "Tho London financiers understand the position." Mr. Jones suggested that trustees, on reading such pronouncements, would hesitate to invest in New Zealand securities. It had been said, he continued, that the Bill was an economies measure, but it was not; it was a straight-out taxation Bill. One .very pleasing thing to the 'Reform. Party was that the Post Oflicc reserves were now to be paid into the Consolidated Fund, as had been previously advocated by the Reform Party. If it .had been done when the United Party came into oflice there would have been no deficit. ' . T The Postmaster-General (the Hon. J. B. Donald): "They are not doing it now." . Mr. Jones: "Is not that correct? "No, it is not correct," replied the Minister. AN AMAZING PROPOSAL. Mr. Jones: "Tho Bill makes it very clear." To take the anticipated surpluses from the Post Office Savings Bank was a most amazing proposal, lo cstimato the profit of such a Department in advance was absurd, and no man should be given such powcrfairly. If the money was taken in anticipation of a surplus and a surplus was not realised there was no power to put it back. "I suggest to tho PostmasterGeneral," he said, "that as a. business man he should stiffen his' back in this matter." It was very bad finance. Mr. Jones) denounced the system which had grown up of introducing taxing Bills one by one instead of permitting a comprehensive review of the whole financial position first of all. He was disturbed in mind because he wondered whether they knew all the facts of the position yet. They had been promised further taxing measures, and the present Bill indicated that there was a tremendous financial gap yet to bo filled. Surely the House was entitled to a definite statement of the finances of the country. The real economics suggested in the Bill were very small, and lie suggested that the Government had not given effect to the bulk of the Economy Committee's recommendations, because it did not suit it to do so. ■Ho condemned the policy of drift being, followed in respect to unemployment, and said that, together with the position of imports, it would lead to disaster. The only remedy was a proper Customs Bill to give employment to people in New Zealand. RAID ON TRADING DEPARTMENTS. Mr. H. T. Armstrong (Labour, Christchurch East) criticised the portion of the Bill which made a raid on the trading departments of the State. The proposals struck a blow at State enterprise. Parliament should be very careful in using the funds of the Post Office for any other purpose than that for which the funds were originally intend: cd. It-was hardly a. correct procedure, to transfer the funds of the Post Office to relievo taxation. The proposals merited considerably more explanation than had been given to the House.- It had been the policy of Governments in recent years to hamper the Post Office Savings Bank in the interest of private I banks. If the anticipated profits of the State Savings Bank wore to be taken for revenue, then,.tho confidence in tho bank would be shaken. Similarly it was wrong for the Government to make a raid on the other State trading departments in order to beiiefit the Consolidated- Fund. These departments should get the benefit of' the savings which they made, whether they were savings in salary or otherwise. The] Government had no right to take funds from the Public Trust Office. A member: "It" is State:guaranteed.", Mr. Armstrong: "The State has never I given the Public Trust any financial | assistance and should not be allowed i

to plunder the funds." The State Fire Insuranco Officer had paid out after the Hawkes Bay earthquake, but .private companies had refused to do this. The State Department. was not allowed to tako advantage of the reduction of salaries, whereas the private companies could take advantage of wage-reduc-tion, and it appeared" that-the Government was intent ou crippling State enterprise. The same criticism applied to the State Accident and Life'lnsurance offices. If the Government was short of funds, it could obtain £400,000 by licensing'bookmakers.:, This would, uot increase the number of bookmakers or the volume of betting. Before it reduced salaries and took funds from tho State trading departments, the ■Government should examine all other sources of revenue. Mr. Armstrong deplored the reduction of-the family allowance. He considered that an Education Bill, and not a Finance Bill, should deal with : amendments in the educational system. The proposed farreaching amendments in education were of sufficient importance to be embodied in a separate Bill, and1 should not be smuggled through/ the House in a conglomerate measure. The Rev. C. Carr (Labour, Timaru) said that the educational proposals wcro devastating to the Education Committee of the House.

Mr. G. C. Black (Independent, Motueka) protested against tho reduction of the grant to the Greymouth Harbour Board. It was a pity ■ that the Government had not given effect to the proposals of the Minister of Education, especially as these in the main had been supported by the Recess Committee of the House. There was »v undesirable tendency to direct the educational system by Order in Council. Ho supported the recommendations of . the Recess Committee. Speaking generally, he said he could not find much in the Bill that he favoured. MISUNDERSTANDINGS. Mr. A. E. Jull (United, Waipawa) deprecated the carping spirit of some of the Opposition speeches. There was no question,that reduction must be made- in expenditure. Replying to Mr. Jones, he said the Government could not bo blamed for statements made by Press correspondents to England regarding the deficit. Mr. Jones had becnj under a misunderstanding as to taking I tho Post and Telegraph reserves. There j was no proposal to disturb those reserves. As to tho estimation of profits, I it was provided that the Minister could authorise a certain amount out of pro-, fits to be transferred. That was an ordinary company procedure, and there was no difficulty in estimating probable profits. It was quite usual for an estimation, to be made by a company and for an interim dividend to be declared beforo the year closed.' Mr. Jull said that the National Provident maternity allowance was being ' reduced slightly, and he regretted that that was necessary.

Mr. Fraser: "Is it-tho Government's idea to-reduce the cost of" babies?" / Mr. Jull: "I don't know what the Government's ideas arc on that very interesting feature." Quito a lot of those who benefited' through the fuud did so through tho various friendly societies. The Leader of tho Labour Party (Mr. 11. E. Holland): "Which includo • the medical associations 6f tho working men." Mr. Jull-advocated a unification oC tho education system, and, in conclusion, he said the" Bill was an earnest of the Government's desire to do the best for the country. Possibly—indeed, probably—it would be necessary to impose additional taxation, but as he was not in the secrets of the Government ho did not-know in what direction extra taxation might be levied. They should brace themselves and tako the nicdicino that was-coming to^theui, and'get it over as quickly as possible.

Mr. F. Langstone (Labour, Waimarino) condemned tho proposals to reduce, the scope of the family allowance. The Government had anticipated that there | would be •an all-round reduction in wages, ■ but. in several cases employers considered that wages reduction was a false principle." The debate was adjourned ■at midnight.