FIRST STAGE COMPLETED

Evening Post, Volume CXI, Issue 68, 21 March 1931, Page 9

FIRST STAGE COMPLETED

PASSAGE OF FINANCE BILL

LENGTHY SITTING OF HOUSE

The first slagc of the prevrrrss of the Finance Bill through the Mouse of Repiweiilalives was completed shortly before 5 o clock this morning. After 'midnight the debate was largely carried on by Labour members, who expressed determined opposition to the progress of the Bill. The amendment moved from the Labour benches favouring a .system of graded taxation was the subject ol a division at J. 30 a.m., and was defeated by 46 voles to 21. The second reading was carried by 47 votes lo 20, and the House adjourned until Monday afternoon, when consideration will be given to the Bill in Committee.

Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Labour, Avon) expressed disappointment with the speech of the Hon. W. Downie Stewart, and referred to Mr. Stewart's attempt to create an impression that if wage cuts were not made a depreciation in the currency would follow. Mr. Stewart did not indicate, " owever, how that would take place if the Bill was jiot passed. The speaker contended Iliat Mr. Stewart had not shown the country what ho had in mind. .My. \V. K. Pnrry (Labour, Auckland (ViilinO: "It was very .subtle.'' Mr. Sullivan deplored the attitude of (lie ,I'rime Minister in tho matter of breaking arbitratioji contracts. It must he obvious that if such contracts were broken by the Government they could also be broken by employers or workfr.s. The logical conclusion of Mr. i'oibc.-i's unguarded and regrettable statement was that the awards could be broken, and Mr. Forbes had done a groat deal to undermine the I.C. and A. Act. The speaker agreed that the ■wage cuts would not bring down the cost of living. A CUT INEVITABLE. Mr. C. A. Wilkinson (Independent, Egmont) -said he -would support the second reading because the Bill would later reach the Committee stages, when it might bo amended. He regarded a cut in wages as inevitable, but he would support a modification in respect to the lower salaries. He regretted that he could not support the claims in the Bill affecting the LC. and A. Act. In regard to the cuts, most workers outside the Civil Service and outside awards had already had their ■wages cut seriously from one end of the country to the other, and worst of all, it had been, found impossible for many employers to keep on their employees. They wero being asked to share in the'losses of the whole ol: tho people. Referring to the position of tho farmers, the speaker said he had never known such a state of affairs as existed in his.' district. He believed that during the coming winter there ■would be hundreds of farmers throughout the country who would not have a single shilling to bless themselves with. Tho farmers were in the position of selling their stock at 6d a head or give them away. NEW TAXATION SYSTEM WANTED. Mr. V. Waite (Reform, Clutha) argued that, the Minister of Kducation, who preached economy, should be prepared lo practise economy himself. Yet he liad insisted on laying a second foundation stono at. Wanganui. (Laughter.) Mr. Waitc asked if it was proposed to a'epeal tho Family Allowances Act. The Act had been of tho greatest value to many poor people, and ho wanted to Itnow if any of tho Civil servants who received tho cut -would then bo allowed the benefits of the Act. The cost of unemployment was likely to increase considerably in the next two years, and he asked how the extra money would bo found. Tho people wanted to know just what unemployment was costing at present, for it seemed that the whole thing was likely to break flown within three months unless deflnie provision was made. Discussing the farmers' position, Mr. Waite declared that he believed that the real trouble about farmers' costs wns Ihe cost of their farms. He believed that tho deficit for the current year would bo even more than the £1,250,000 anticipated by tho Prime Minister. Tho system of taxation now in use worked jn prosperous times, but broke down jn a time of depression, and we required a system which would yield what was required at all times, depression of no depression. Tho position had now arrived when tho drift to the towns was stopping, for the farmers realised that if they stayed on their farms at least they would bo able to support themKolves, even though they did not pay their interest. The recent increase in railway freights was a load on the farmer. SHIFTING THE BURDEN. Mr. M. J. Savage (Labour, Auckland ■West) advocated placing the burden on •the .shoulders of those best able to bear it. Persons paying income tax wero given exemptions for insurance and dependants, but those below tho income tax minimum were now asked to bear a reduction without any exemptions. Whatever revenue was required at this stage could only conn; from the people, ill: they borrowed, tho Bill would come in, and it would only bo putting off the evil day. Tho money should be raised on a graduated system in accordance ■with ability to pay. There was no guarantee that the increased Post and Telegraph rates would bring in increasifl revenue,"but it would certainly be n brake, on publicity and commercial enterprise. It was 'iuteridrd I" l' la'-c -the railways under a board, which would alter the policy, but why couldn't the policy 1:»; altered by the present management? At the present lime tho xnilways compared more than favourably with competing services. Supposing tin: private motor services were placed on the same footing as the railways and asked lo pay interest on Joan money .feu- mads. Supposing again they were required lo lake all tlic freight taken by the railways, instead of being allowed to pick out the eyes nf the freight. In these circumstances -the motor services would not live with the railways. No one would -ay that private railways would have done so much for tho'Dominion as the Slate linos, which had played a tremendous part in the development, of the couniy" ECONOMY OPPORTUNITIES. Mr. 11. 0. Dickie (Reform, Pa tea) said that tho banks had been called Shylofka, and plunderers, but in the case of the Bank of New South Wales, for instance, there were 7000 shareholders whose average holding was .6500. One of the biggest lending institutions in Australasia, the A.M.P. Society, had over 1,000,000 members, and tho average holding was very small. Sn the Post Office Savings. Bank there wore 852,000 depositors, and their money was lent mil through Mi'1 Kt»t« Advances Office The:--e people wore tho hard-hoaite.l nmrtgagrrs referred 10. He agreed that rh" duty on beeiand spirits could be iiM-nvisnd, but a tax on sugar would in>l. bring '" "lf' desired revenue. .\ I the present Hum .many nf tho. uiiem|.l..ved were being •put on useless work, find n useful task they conld be put In w? lh« construe-

tion of bridges or ramps over level crossings. Mr. Dickie criticised the wheat duties, whicn were raising the price of bread and crippling the poultry industry. Ho was not in favour of" abolishing the duties altogether, but they should bo within reason. At present there were far too many Departments of State. These included the Town Planning Department and the Primo Minister's Department, and he did not know what thoy were getting out of tho £10,000 voted for the Secretariat of the League of Nations. .Mr. .T. S. Fletcher (Independent, Grey Lvnn): ">'ou i-i-rlainly don't know." 'Mr. .Dickie .said he' was also opposed to the sending of a delegation to the International Labour Conference, because Now Zealand labour conditions were tho highest, in tho world. Tho Leader of tho Labour Party (Mr. H. E. Holland): "One of the aims of tho conference is to bring the standard of the backward countries up to those of the higher countries." Mr. Dickie considered that the two export control boards could bo amalgamated and a reduction in expenditure could be made in the High Commissioner's office. Mr. W. E. Parry (Labour, Auckland Central) said that the expenditure of a New Zealand delegation to Geneva had been fully justified by results. It was most unfair to refer to the unemployment insurance in England as a "dole" and a "canker." He maintained that the Labour Party's attitude toward the Government's proposals was quito fair and equitable. They had received no answer to the suggestion for a surtax on the higher incomes. MORE TROM LIQUOR. Mr. AY. ¥j. Barnard (Labour, Napier) asked whether there was not another way of increasing tho revenue than by cuts. Ho disagreed with a tax on sugar, but saw no reason against increased excise duties. In Great Britain over 43 per cent, of tho Customs duties were yielded from liquor, as against 21 per cent, in New Zealand, and that offered a good opportunity for raising further revenue. Tho Government preferred to see how more adventurous Governments got on. It seemed that the Government was heeding the ndvico of Sir Otto ■ Nicmeyer, who had urged that costs should be reduced, wages cut down, and the standard of living reduced. Ho believed it was right in the interests of tho country tha"i interest and rents should bo reduced, but the Government had made no attempt to give effect to either. There was a modern precedent by Mussolini for an arbitrary reduction of rents. This had been done at tho same time as wages woro reduced. Why did not tho Government sco to it that tho cost of living was reduced l)y action in respect to interest and rents'.' COURAGE AND ENTERPRISE NEEDED. Mr. J. S. Fletcher (Independent, Grey Lynn) said that the Government should appeal to the enterprise of the people and endeavour to develop tho resources of the country. The wage cut would not matter much to the man getting £1000 per year, but it would be a most serious tiling for tho man on &i per week. The big salaried man would not have to forgo tho necessities of life, but the small wage-earner would experience great difficulty in making ends meet.. If the Government, instead of wallowing in the slough of despond, took the road of courage and enterprise, New Zealand had a magnificent future. The speaker advocated a barrel tax on hotel licences, instead of a flat tax, and said that the money derived from this source would make up much of the deficit and do away with the necessity for tho cuts in tho Civil Service. There would be less drinking if tho price of liquor was dearer, and the people would bo better off. Thero was no justification for the high rate of interest, because in America to-day money was being lent out at call at 2 per cent, and on long terms at 3 per cent. There had been fin offer by a company to build a bridge over tho Waitematii harbour without 'my additional cost to the Dominion. The bridge was to coat £1,000,000, and within three months would be employing 200 men. Within six mouths it would find work for 500 men, and its construction would mean that the transport facilities to the north of Auckland would be improved. Tho company which desired to build the bridge 'would have to receive tho authority of the Government before it shifted "its plant from Sydney. A member: "What is the company wanting?" ~ Mr. Fletcher: "It wants to put a toll on tho bridge, and the Auckland people are agreeable to this." He said that tho speech by tho Minister of Native Affairs (the Hon. Sir Apirana Ngata) had reminded him of a tinker trying to solder a kettle from which the bottom had dropped out, and did not answer for the policy of the Government Since ]02fl the Public Works Department had spent £10.000,000 per annum above the estimated costs on works »ndcr its control, and a competent Minister in this .Department could save the country '£ 1,000,000 per nnniini. THE GOVERNMENT PEE-WARNED. ATr \ V' Ansel! (Reform, Chalmers) said he 'supported the liill with some Reservations. It was to be regretted ~,l lt the Prime Minister, beiorr m. ki,,g his statement, d.d not fust <-a . n industrial conference. A round table, on'ronce would clear u P »»s,n,d^sHndin"s It. was not through lack ot n .'ecauso the Government was a nod by the Opposition last, session. There was only a certain, amount, v he wacres fund, whether it belonged to the Government or tho private e". P oyeij ■md 'is soon as that money decreased c he wages had to bo reduced or men would have to go out, of employment Those members who were advocating not a reduction in wages but increased taxation, were really puttin up the rate of interest. The "me Minister had faced tho facts, but one would like to have seen a ray oj. sunshine in his speech. The Leader of the Labour Tarty (Mr. IT. E. Holland): "There was moonshine in it." Mr. Ansell: "Yen, thero has been a great' deal of moonshine from various sides ot: the House." Mr. Ausell criticised the rentals which had been charged by the Government lor railway houses. Mr V. Langstono (Labour. Wanna rim.) said the time of tin: H'Mise .on!', be more profitably spent in discussing thiiiL's that really mattered lhan in discussing the present Kill. Ho twitted the Minister of Labour wHii having

changed his mind like "a string-halted nag.,'' a term which he was called upon to ivithdraw. Mr. K. S. Williams (Heform, Bay of Plenty) expressed the opinion that the Public Works Department was overstaffed, but that fact was very largely due 6d the efforts of the Labour Party, which had persuaded 1 lie Government, to increase the staff. He regretted that tho Government had. given no indicrtuion of the. lines on. which the Krouffßiv Comniilfee was working, as that .Information was of importance when -.they were considering (lie "cuts1' lin the. salaries of Civil servant-:. Love lof pleasure had b'-on one oi' tin: r^ut,^ I ol: fin} present, financial diHicully of I the country, particularly in respect oi' i the purchase ot motor-cars and other luxiincj;. ABOLISHING DEPARTMENTS. Mr. "J!'. M'Keou (Labour. Wellington Smith) described the policy of the Govonouent as one of the most inequitable cvMi" perpetrated in the history of tho atuintry. He resented the threat that had been made by the Government tluit if the Government's proposals ws re not adopted by the House men would be dismissed; as a matter of fact, .dismissals had already been made. Hie quoted the case of a man who after 34 years' service in the employ oj? the State had had his salary reduced ))y £20 a year on the score of] inefficiency-. If he refused to accept tho reduction he would be dismissed. Mr. M'Kctfn criticised the action of the Government in getting a lot of its printing work carried out by private concerns, i»s a result of which it had been neeesl ary to dismiss men from the Government Printing Office. Mr. M'Keen did not agree that an award of the Arbitration Court was not a contract, and asked why employee and j employees were prosecuted for j breaches o.f award if that were so. He .-asked what guarantee the workers had that wage reductions would bo fallowed by a reduction in the cost of IHving, and questioned the powers whiclii tho Government had to ensure that the prices of foodstuffs would come d'rjwn. The workers would simply have t.».i do without many of the necessities of fife. If the Government was looking :for avenues of economy, they should, sYx>Hsh tho Department of Industries anil Commerce, which was absolutely of no service to the community. "The Immigration Department should also >/c abolished, as it wa3 serving no used'ul purpose. Mr J O'Brien (Labour, Westland) said the Bill vras the most reactionary measure that '.had ever been brought before the Blouse. He believed it would have a serious effect on the social services -of the Dominion. Mr. R. Semrilo (Labour, Wellington East.) said that by prosecnting its proposals tho Government was creating a spirit of indifference and disregard for agreements and' was so tending to promote industrial strife. The day was coming when soil no Government worild have to show row.rago enough and judgment enough to Jtet down to the fundamental causes od' the I roubles ot the farmers. The Prime Minister cut the wages of tho woftkera, but he only appealed to the interest kings or. the Dominion to reduce their rates He feared that, there-, would be little- response to the appeal. ANOTHER A;jVCSNDMENT. Mr J W Combs -(Labour, Lyttellon). gave 'notice of his intention to move th 6 following further amendment:— The House neviDimnends to the Government that members of Parliament be assemble 1 as a round table conference to i'ona'ulate proposals by means of resolution, the agreed upon resolutions to be subsequently embodied in a Bill, the resolutions to be confined to (1) .taxation proposals based on equality of sacrifice and ability to pay, aim! (2) ways and means of rendering .'immediate assistance to the farmeni and ultimately relieve the fanner?, of the risks of foreign trade. The Government, instead oE taking members into its confidence, had put certain proposals before tho House and had stated that tiiey would stand or fall by them. The Government was not big enough in numbers or in ability to decide what was in tl.e best interests of tho country. What did tho ±ate ot the Government matter at such a time as the present? Parliament was being given no voice in tho iraniing- ot the legislation, but was being asked lo swallow a cut and dried! scheme, l.lie work of Parliament was being hindered by narrow party proposals. Mr W Nash (Laboue, Hull) said he hoped tbat even if <U c. AL'Combs-s amendment were not carried the L.o\ernment would take notice ot what it contained and call a round-table conference of members. He .devoted some attention to tho problem «£ the- marketing of dairy produce oil the Home market. After midnight, the debate was carried on by tho Labour mambers only. THEIR HEART NOT1 IN IT. Mr P Frasor (Labour, Wellington Central), speaking in the early hours of tho morning, said that thero must indeed bo a feeling of uneasiness on tho Government, benches coa tacrning ttie Bill, and he did not know what unfortunate Pate had made tho Prime Minister its victim in choosing him as sponsor for tho measure. Tho speech of tho Minister of Kducatio n had been interesting on everything Hut the Bill, and he felt sure that Minister did not have his heart in tho ra oasure. It was lamentable that members ot the Government holding radical views m the past had abandoned thcan now. On the best of authority ho hfl/d boon informed that no party caucus had preceded the Prime Minister 'a Press an nouncement of the proposal s, and it seemed that after the party had been called together the memberu- nad been told to close their eyes, it pen Mienmouths, and swallow the medicine. They had dono that, and soffl o of them had licked tho spoon «fterwards. (Laughter.) The United Party was in the hands of the Lender of th c Opposition Ono move and tho Government would go, as it deserved to ,;o if the present proposals were the besi it could ° Tho division on tho Labour' amnndm .__"'LVm cnt . House declines &o give a second reading to a Bill which fails to meet the Dominion's financial obligations by means ol: a graded sylstem ot payment by citizens in acooi'dance with their'ability to pay," wms taken at -1.30 a.m., and was defeated by -10 votes to 21. ' The. second reading was then taken to a division by the Labour Paii.y, and wns carried by 47 lo 20. Tho House then rose until Mauduv.