TRAINING OF NURSES

Evening Post, Volume CX, Issue 69, 18 September 1930, Page 11

TRAINING OF NURSES

i -■■•- ,— f - i njfa ■in ■■■!■ ■■ BILL BEFORE HOUSE

LENGTHY DEBATE

MINISTER IN REPLY

No really new matter was introduced in the course of further lengthy debate in'the 'House of Representatives l;ist night on fho motion, to commit the Nurses and Mid wires' Registration Amendment Bill, Die ui.-iin object of which is to constitute private hospitals training grounds for nurses, on condition that not less than forty beds are provided for occupation without payment or at an inadequato charge. The Question of reciprocity between- New Zealand and the Old Country was again much to the fore. Tho Bill survived a division, and there are indications that attempts will be made to amend it when the Committee stage ia reached. Tho reply of the Minister of Health (the Hon. A. J. Stallworthy) was devoted . largely to the matter of reciprocity. Referring to criticism in regard to nurses' examinations, Mr. Stallworthy said that they would continue to be conducted by the same body which had conducted them in the past—the Nurses and Midwives' Registration Board. He. denied a suggestion that the proposals amounted to gambling with the rights of the nurses. It had been urged that the Bill should be deferred until the opinion of the General Nursing Council of England and Wales had been obtained, but he did liot see that it could be reasonably assumed that tho council would alter its attitude and review tho reciprocal agreement because nurses were trained in private hospitals as well as in public hospitals. ,- ' Mr. B. A. Wright (Keform, Wellington Suburbs): "Yes, they say so." CORRESPONDENCE WITH j ■ - ENGLAND. The Minister: "I say that is quite ridiculous." In every other country, he said, where .the .nursing council had approved schools for nurses tho hospitals were of .the same type as thoso which would: be approved under the B\lL j Mr. Stallworthy said that the point more than any other that he was concerned about was the question of reciprocity, and he was very sorry that misunderstanding or misgivings had developed. He had written to the General Nursing Council of England and Wales" last February,' and all the correspondence.on*the subject had been placed before the Public Health' Committee of the House. He said he hadinquired whether, in the event of the amending Bill becoming law, the reciprocal arrangement with the Mother Country would be in any way endangered. He had stated his case fairly and fully. Mr. Stallworthy read a portion of the correspondence, including a reply received in April, in which the council stated that it did not recognise as training schools private hospitals—that was, institutions! which were run for gain, which ! were usually known in England as private nursing homes. It was also stated that if such hospitals were recognised in New Zealand for tho purpose of training the reciprocal arrangements concerning registration would have to be reviewed. Kef orm voices: "It could not be plainer." The Minister.said it appeared to him that that-reply-.was satisfactory only, lip to a point, and he was unable to understand its significance until it was brought to his notice that on 30th December, a month or six weeks before he had written to the General Nursing Council, Miss Inglis, of the Trained Nurses^ Association, had written to the chairman of the General Nursing Council asking if reciprocity would bo affected by the Bill, adding that private hospitals were run for profit. He had f^lt satisfied :f.rom that that the reply he had. received in.April had b'feen based on wrong premises. Mr.-J. Bitchener' (Eeform, Waitaki): "It is as clear as mud." The Minister: "Well, I could not expect to put it any clearer than that for the hon. gentleman." PROVISION^ OP MAIN ACT. : Institutions which were run as voluntary hospitals, in. the Old Country, he. said,, were, recognised, as ' training schools for nurses by the Nursing Council of England and Wales. In the main Act setting up the Nurses and Midwives' Registration Board of New Zealand there was no word about any standard of training. Nor was there any word of. reference .to the general council of England and Wales. There were no safeguards in respect to reciprocity. Yet the board had entered into correspondence and negotiations with .the General-.Nursing Council and had developed a reciprocal arrangement with the' Old Country. ; •' ..Tne.iHon. W.- Downie Stewart . (Reform,'Dunediir West): "You could clear it all .up iii. a week if you sent a cable to England." The\ Minister: "In the communica-tions-from the. General Nursing Council there has been a confusion of terms as to' the meaning of 'private hospital,' and if the Bill goes through, tho procedure will be the same in the future as it has been in the past. The board will officially open up further negotiations with the Nursing Council, and it is inconceivable that the Nurses and (Midwives' Registration Board, the statutory authority, would, take any action with regard to the approval of any private institution as a training school until tho conversations had been brought to a satisfactory conclusion. Until we have an institution in New Zealand that is competent to be registered as a training school we have no case to state. The board set up under the main Act has functioned satisfactorily to all parties ever since its inauguration. It is'an intelligent body, it is representative of the trained nurses, who have a majority representation on the board, and it is representative of Parliament, and the Health Department and the medical profession. There is no roason to believe that suddenly, on the passing of this;; Act, after years of satisfactory operation of the board, it is going to become defunct so far as its intelligent operation is concerned." POSITION NOT ALTERED. The Minister read a document dated 1922 in which the General Council stated that it was going, to accept the New Zealand registration certificate, without any exception, so long- as it was issued by a competent authority. Mr. Bitchener: "In 1922." Mr. Stallworthyt "The position has not changed." Mr. Wright: "You are going to change it." The Minister: "All that the Nursing Council has to be satisfied about 1b tho fact of registration." When the i"otion was put that tho Bill be comiv*» :d, it was weakly challenged from cub Reform benches, and on the question being re-stated a division was called for by Mr. W. D. Lysnar (Independent Eeform, Gisborne}. THE DIVISION. Tho motion was then carried by 56 votes to 14, the division list being as follows r — * For the Motion (iJG). —Armstrong, Atmorc, Barnard, Black, Bodkin, Broadfoot, Carr, Chapman, Clinkard, Coatee, Cobbe, de la Perrello, Donald, Eudean, Field, Meteles^ Sjassa, Hal^ Harris,

Hawke, Healy, Hogan, 11. Holland, 11. E. Holland, Howard, Jordan, Kyle, Langstone, Lye, M'Combs, M' Donald, M'Dougall, jVl'Keen, Macphcrson, Makitanara, Martin, Mason, Muuns, Mur-

(loch, Ngata, O'Brien, Parry, Poison, Ransom, Rushworth, Samuel, Savago, Semple, Smith, Stallworthy, Sullivan, Sykea, Taverner, . Word, "Wilkinson, Young. ,/

Against the Motion (14).-~Aiiscll,Bil--chencr, Campbell, Dickie, 11.-i.milloii, Jones, LinkluUn\ Lysnar, Mni-inillan, .1. A. NaKh,.Stew(4rt-.j Wriiu*., 'Williums, and. Wright.