DEFEATED!

Evening Post, Volume CX, Issue 47, 23 August 1930, Page 10

DEFEATED!

DEFENCE BILL V

A DECISIVE VOTE

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL'S

ACTION

By a decisive vole of seventeen to nine, the Legislative Council last night rejected the Defence (Temporary) Amendment Bill. The Council sat until shortly after 10.30 o'clock to consider the amendment proposed by the Hon. Sir James Allen that the Bill should be read a second time after six months had elapsed.

The Hon. G. M. Thomson said he felt economy would be a retrograde step so far as defence was concerned, and for that reason he supported the amendment proposed by Sir James Allen. He stressed the importance of military training from a disciplinary; point of view. It was a good thing for a man to endure hardness in his youth, and he wanted to see the young people brought up to realise theiv responsibilities. The Hon. W. Snodgrass said he would support the amendment. His Imperial sentiments were sufficiently strong to lead him to support the present system rather than effect a few economies. Ho looked upon defence as a national insurance scheme. There was also the value of the training to the young men. of the community to be considered. The Hon. G. Witty supported the Bill. Tl],e volunteer system was better than compulsion, for nnder com-' 'pulsion it was impossible to get the best out of a man. The Government was in urgent need of money, and it was to see where the money was to come from if the Bill were defeated. An army was a useless thing to-day. Sir James Allen had said there was no need for the Bill, but what a howl of protest there would have been if the Government had tried to do away with the compulsory, system without the authority of Parliament. A standing army would be of no use in New Zealand, but what was wanted was an efficient air force and an efficient navy. The cause of the last war was th*at every male German was a trained soldier. If they, encouraged a spirit of loyalty they would never lack for soldiers in time of war. The Hori. L. M. Isitt said he would support the Bill, as he had committed, himself to oppose the Territorial system so long as there was no conscience clause. A PACIFIST BILL. The Hon. W. Earnshaw declared that the Bill was of a pacifist character. He had great sympathy with the Government, which was faced with the necessity of finding large sums of money, but the question they had to ask themselves was whether the country should, be left defenceless or not./ The proposal of the Government was a wretched one. Mr. Earnshaw declared that the proposals of the Government came from those who were preaching the Soviet gospel, and the Government was being carried along at the chariot wheel of the Labour Party. He predicted that the compulsory service system would go forever if the Bill were passed. The public were not in favour of the abandonment of the principle of compulsory service, and he was prepared to challenge any member of tha Government to a public debate on the question. The Hon. D. Buddo regretted that Mr. Earnshaw had introduced a party note into the debate. He supported the Bill as a temporary measure; if it had been permanent he would hava voted against it. . The Hon. A. S. Malcolm gave his support to the Bill. New Zealand was the only country in the Empire_ that had a compulsory system of training, so the Government need have uo fears about abandoning the present system. There was a tremendous feeling against compulsory military service in Britain. Mr. Malcolm said the same danger of war did not exist to-day as was the case in 1914. The Hon. Mark Pagan said the measure was the outcome of the present, grave financial situation iv the Dominion. He was not a pessimist, but ha was afraid the situation might be eveu. worse this time next year. The reduction in expenditure on defence was only one of the economies that the Government had had to undertake. It had certainly not been due to the domination of the Labour Party. The Hon. J. B. Gow said the Bill went further than temporarily suspend: ing the compulsory military service system. Every man had a duty to' his country, and it would bo preposterous to depend solely on those who volunteered for military service. The Hon. Sir William Hall-Jones said Sir James Allen had always been opposed to whatever the Government was doing. He reminded the Council that it was not an elective Chamber, and they should hesitate before reversing the vote of the House of Bepresentatives. A TEMPORARY MEASURE. Eeplying to the debate, the Leader of the" Council (the Hon. E. Masters) said ho was disappointed that members had not given closo attention to the provisions of the Bill. It had been assumed that the compulsory system was to be abandoned/ but nothing could be clearer than that was not intended. The Bill was purely a temporary measure for the purposes of effecting economies. If it had not been for the need of economy the Bill would never have appeared before the Council, and the carrying of Sir James Allen's amendment would mean that it was the wish of the Council that there should be no economies in the Defence vote. Sir James Allen: "I deny that absolutely." By introducing the Bill the Government had taken the House of Eepresentatives and the Council into its confidence. If it had wished the Government could have put £500,000 on the Estimates for Defence and only spent £20, but that would not have been an. honourable thing to do. The division on Sir James Allen'»' amendment resulted: For the Amendment (17). Allen Rhodes Bell Scott Clark Sinclair Collins Smith Earnshaw Snodgrass Garland Stewart (jow Thomson. Lang Triggs M' Gregor Against the Ani&nduwiifc (^ . Masters Hawke Buddo Malcolm Pagan Stevenson Hall-Jones Witty Hanan Pairs. For— Against— Canington. M'Cal!«n» Moore TrevetniSk Alison Isltt Reed Sme.y,