MR. GLENN AND PRIME MINISTER

Evening Post, Volume CXII, Issue 51, 28 August 1926, Page 7

MR. GLENN AND PRIME MINISTER

AGRICULTURAL COLLEGE SITE

"FAT SALARY AND FARMING

THE PUBLIC'

The introduction of the Agricultural College Bill in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon was productive of a sharp discussion, in the course of which Mr. W.: S. : Glenn, Reform member for Rangitikei, expressed his chagrin, that Palmerston North instead of Rangitikei had been selected as the site for the college. Throughout his speech Mr. Glenn spoke, with considerable heat, and his remarks were frequently punctuated with interjections and ironical "Hear, hears," largely from tho Reform Party benches.

The Leadcv of the National Party (Mr. (i. W. Forbes) thought they could take it ■ that the college was to be a North Island institution. He considered that they might now be able to approach the Government with a view of having Lincoln Colleri placed on a more satisfactory basis. That college had been very much hampered in the past for want of funds. He claimed that by extending the functions of Lincoln College and being given liberal Government support, the money that was to be spent'on the North Island college could have been saved. It was a great pity that in a matter of that kind any question of North v. South Island should arise. He feared that the expenditure on the college would starve other agricultural institutions generally. "When theoretically trained students were turned out in large numbers he predicted that the money expended would not return the value that it would have done had it been spent in developing the experimental farms. Lincoln College could turn out all the instructors that would be required for a Very long time. He was satisfied that there was no need to have adopted the (views of an outsider like Sir Frank Heath in regard to the establishment of an agricultural college. The Hon. W. No3V/orthy: "The policy was adopted before Sir Frank Heath came here." . Mr. Forbes contended that Sir Frank Heath had been brought here to help the Cabinet to make, up its mind. A "FAVOURABLE OFFER." The establishment of an agricultural college was commended by Mr. W. S. Glenn (Rangitikei) as a step in the right direction. He had thought that the college would have been established in his district, and was encouraged in that belief by a remark by the late Minister of Education and by the report of Sir Frank Heath. But the Minister of Agriculture had later intimated to the House that it was intended to place the college at Palmerston North. The Minister had referred to the "favoura' lo offer made by the Mayor of Palmerston North." Voicea: "Did he.say that?" "Yes, he did," Tepliod Mr. Glenn. "Very well, I, am just wondering how the favourable offer is going on. The matter has to go to the ratepayers. I hear on good authority that they would bo idiots if they did not turn it down because as the Government is committed to the expenditure and has bought the land, why should they commit themselves to the extent of £10,000?" Mr. Glenn said he had ascertained that the value of;'the land was £40 an acre, which showed that the land was pretty rich. He'said he had, tried to find out what.the, Government was paying, but conld not get;the information, but believed it was about £60 an acre. They were "stuffing" an Agricultural college down on-very rich land. Who was in trouble to-day? The,grazier. He was in a pretty rocky position.

Mr. r. Waite (Clutha): "He is 'stoney.'" "I think it is very sad to see we are going to stuff a college down in the rich land of Kairanga, where even a portion was flooded the other day," continued Mr. Glenn. \ Mr. J. A. Nash (Palmerston North):"How.much was flooded?" A voice: "The whole lot." Mr. Glenn: "Unfortunately, I am afraid the Minister of Agriculture and the Cabinet did not take into consideration the true difficulties of the grazier in this country to-day." The Prime Minister: "I think I know as much about it as you do." "I am putting my farming experience up against that of the Prime Minister's,: and am putting facts," replied Mr. Glenn.

Mr. Coates: "You make more money than I do." "Yon are drawing a pretty fat salary, now farming the public," retorted Mr. Glenn, amidst lond laughter. "THESE PAMILY QUARRELS." "These family quarrels won't do," j ' erjeeted the • Leader of the Opposi-

tion (Mr. H.E. Holland). Mr. Glenn, said ho thought he had put up a very good case for the man who wanted assistance —the grazier. Experiments should have been made on lower grade land. "Are we going to da it in Kairanga?" asked.Mr. Glenn.

"In Cairo?" inquired Mr. Coates. "No, Kairanga," heatedly replied Mr. Glenn. "If you'd sit up in your seat you'd hear what I say." (Laughter). "No, I'm hanged if I can. I don't know what you are talking about," remarked the Prime Minister, suddenly sitting bolt upright.

At this stage the Chairman of Committees ; (Mr. F. F. Hockly) warned members that there were, too many interjections going on, and if they were not more reasonable he would have to stop them altogether.'

Mr. Glenn saidiit..was very difficult to make a speech while, being subjected to interjections from all sides of tlio House. Ho thought he had reasonable grounds for fair play. The Prime Minister knew that the speaker had objected to putting/the college on.rich land. He was particularly disappointed that some help was not given by the Government to those men who most needed it —the graziers. The. Hon. D. Buddo (Kaiapoi) said that ho agreed that a variety, of land, heavy and light,' would make the best agricultural college site. Mr. J.,A. Nash (Palmersion North): "Well, you'll get it." _ Mr. Buddo' said that the main question to be decided was how they were going to finance, the college. He thought it was about time that they received some indication from the Government as to what was going to happen to the Canterbury Agricultural College. There was a general demand amongst the dairying people of the North Island for more research work, by means of establishing laboratories in various parts of the country. There was undoubtedly a, dearth' of scientific instructors in New Zealand. There had already been several commissions, but there was still room for a further com.mission—a commission of practical men to decide what course the colleges should follow.

Mr. J. A. Nash (Palmerston North) said that he could not allow the statements of Mr. Glenn to go unanswered. Mr. Glenn: "I haven't finished yet." "WON'T GET ANYWHERE." Mr. Nash: "Well, if you go on in 'the same strain you won't get anywhere." Mr. Nash went on to say that the Bangitikei people were highly disappointed because the college had not been placed in their district, and when an endeavour was made to get the Manawatu and Bangitikei people together the latter would have nothing to do with it. Mr. Glenn: "You broke away." Mr. Nash: "Nothing of the sort." Mr. Glenn had.stated that the Palmerston North ratepayers would turn the loan down, but he assured the House that Mr. Glsrin knew nothing about it. He believed the ratepayers would carry the poll. „''..' Mr. D. Jones (Ellesmere): "If they don't, it will come to Lincoln."

Mr. Nash went on to say that there were'three grades of. land on the Palmerston North site. Befereuce had been made to the floods, but he reminded Mr. Glenn that only seven acres were under water.

Support for the views of Mr. Glenn was expressed by. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui), who said that he would describe Mr. Nash's speech as " Palmerston 's confession." They had got the professors behind them, and then asked Eangitikei to come in with them. He wanted to know what experiments could be made on land that was not of the very best.

The Prime Minister: "That is not correct." There were many factors standing in the way of progress bo far as farming was concerned, said Mr. Veitch, and he did not think that a college at Palmerston North'would help to get over any of their problems. Their aim should be to improve the .poor, lands of the country, and he thought a college should'be placed on land of a varied quality. There was one point in favour of Palmerston North, and that was the facility it would: provide for a study of dairying problems. On the whole, however, he believed 1 Bangitikei would have' proved a.more suitable site than Palmerston North. He did not believe that the ratepayers of Palmerston North wonid carry the loan, which had been mentioned by Mr. Nash, and if they did. not'the Government would have to provide all the money. » The Prime Minister (the Bight Hon. J. G. Coates) said that it was not a question of a. squabble between Bangitikei and Palmerston North. He did not think that the House was interested in that a bit. The question was whether they were to have an agricultural college in the North Island. There Vere factors which must count in selecting a site, and those who had made the selection had come to the opinion that the Palmerston. North site was more favourable than the one at Bangitikei. Personally he did not care in what electorate it was placed.

The Hon. A. D. M'ieod (Minister of Lands):'"The gift-had nothing to do with it." Mr. Coatei ■ said - that that was - so, and.he- thought: that the last speaker was trying to draw a' red ' herring across the track in 'that respect. '< We

don't care whether they; carry the loan or whether they don't," said Mr. Coates.. "If they don't, wo don't get it, that is all." The first consideration of an agricultural collego was to train lads in. carrying out soil surveys and conducting experiments, the result of which could be placed at the disposal of the farmers in every part of the country. If they- went on squabbling about sites he did not think that anybody would bo'much interested. CANNOT WASTE TIME. They had to be careful that they did nothing which would prevent anything being done, as it was important to the country that they.should get a start, said Mr. . Coates. The college would take some years to initiate and build up. Whether the Bill would give satisfaction or not he was unable to say. The Government could not givo too much time to it. If it was not going to, be passed it would not be passed, but the House would havo to tako the responsibility. The Government would not. If the Bill was hold up it would be thrown aside.

Mr. J. A. Leo (Auckland East): "This is only August, there is plenty of time yet." ■ . .-. .

Mr. Coates: "Oh, yes, but we are not going to waste timo over it. Members know quite well.what the position is. The Government has made up its mind, and it is going to leave the matter to members' own judgment. We have put a lot of hard work into it."

The Prime Minister wont on to say that no member of the Cabinet had been influenced in the matter, but ho wished to say to Mr: Glenn that if there was one man who could influence him personally it was Mr. Glenn. Mr. Glenn knew that. They might have their bit of side-play, but there was nothing in that. Mr. Glenn knew perfectly well that if. it was possible for any man to be given the benefit of a doubt he would get it.

In conclusion, Mr. Coates stated that tho Minister of Agriculture would be making a statement which, he thought, would meet the position-so far as the Board of Governors of Lincoln College was concerned. .

"The Prime Minister cannot possibly blame me for holding up anything as far as the establishment of the agricultural college is concerned,'' said Mr; Glenn, ".but I havo.to put up my protest." He said that it was fair and reasonable for him to put up his fight on behalf of those whom he represented in Parliament, and he was going to do it. It had been reported in the Press that the late Minister of Education had told the people of Bangitikei at a -public meeting to get busy, as they had a chance of getting the site .for the agricultural college.

Mr. Nash: ''That is so, 1 but that is not a promise.": . Mr. Glenn said that his "grouse" about the site was that if there was going to be an option given, why was ho not given a chance? . . /

Air. Veitch: .'.'To bid?"

Mr. Glenn: "I have as many wealthy men in my; electorate as^in any othur part of New Zealand, .&mo they. should have had a chance to bid.. Palmersf.ou North bids £10,000 and gets it. The inference which the general public can diaw is unfair to, the Government." He said that every facility for a firßtclass agricultural college existed in. the Banjitikei district. The Hon. W. Nosworthy: "What is tho price of Bangitikei land? " Mr. Glenn: "It;is ;£3O, an. acre, and you probably paid £60.''; Mr. Glenn added thathh r was making Jhis speech, and whenever Mr. Noijvorthy "chipped in" he (Mr. Nosworilvy)'always got the worst of it.. "I am sorry as far as Rangitikei.is concerned that we havo not got .the site;':-, declared. Mr. Glenn, "but I don't think there will bo any part of the North Island more anxious to 'help the • college than Bangitikei,even if, it is at Palmerston .North.'' (Hear, hear.) , ' Mr. Nash': "That's the way;' that's tho spirit; ■ - ' „ Mr. Glenn: "Personally I shall take a-.' much interest, in the college as if it had been in Eangitikm." "PALMERSTON MOST SUITABLE. The Hon. O. J. Hawken (Minister of Agriculture) said.that, about 300 acres of the land which had beeft chosen was clay land, which in the South Island would be looked upon as first-clas* wheat land, and 250 acres was real dairy land. Part of-it was river silt of much poorer quality.. The final decision was deferred for a long time in order to see if'another site could not be got. The eight or nine people who had examined the different sites, however, had come to the opinion that Palmerston was the most suitable, irrespective of the gift which Palmerston intended to give. He himself considered it to be the best site.

A voice:' "What about Weraroa?"

The Minister replied that the variation of soil there.- was not what was requiredj on an agricultural college site.

Mr. H. Atmore (Nelson) said that he agreed with the views that had been expressed by Mr. Glenn and Mr. Forbes. Without raising the North v. South cry, one could not help feeling that ono college; in New Zealand would-have been sufficient to turn out all the instructors that were needeH. However, the North Island wanted - a college, i and as the Government was largely a North Island Government, it 'got it H« did not see

how Sir Frank Heath could be regarded as an export, and he would prefer to tako tho advice of-practical Now Zealand farmers. Tin bulk of land in New Zealand was not first class. If experiments were to bo of any value, they must be carried out on second and thirdclass land. In regard to land survey, the Cawthron'- stituto had done much valuable .work with, second and thirdclass land. Tho big expenditure on tho college was not such as was justi? fied in view of the present state of tho country's finances. ' '