PREMIERS' STATEMENTS

Evening Post, Volume CII, Issue 50, 27 August 1921, Page 7

PREMIERS' STATEMENTS

AND NAVAL DEFENCE

SPEECH BY MR. MASSEY

(n«K BSR OWN COtIRESrOMBENT.)

LONDON, 6th July. '

Speaking at the Premiers' Conference, Mr. Massey said: "In the first place, I /want briefly to take advantage of what the Prime Minister referred, to as our 'unenviable privilege'—speaking for my-

gelf, the privilege of having the long-

est record as Prime Minister of any of those who sit round the council board to-day, arid on that account I want to

add a few words to what you have said

with regard to an old friend, General Botha. During the very few montha that I was acquainted with General Botha 1 came to regard him us one, ol the besi men I ever met, a great man

undoubtedly, and, in addition, a great

British statesman. If he had been with us to-day it goes without saying he would have been invaluable in assisting to solve some of the-difficult problems

with which we are face to face. I think I ought to say a word of welcome to those who are met in this room for tho

first time, and I feel confident that they

will do credit to those behind them who have honoured them with their confidence, and that their coming here will

b» an acquisition to the

conference,

which I hope and believe will make for ( better things' so far as the Empire is concerned. And now, Prime Minister, I want to refer again Hfiefly to the very

fine speech -vfhich we had the opportunity of listening to. I look upon it as the most important speech delivered since tho war, and a speech which, to the British citizens of the Dominions, will give great satisfaction, and not only to them, but to the citizens at the heart of the' Empire, tho United Kingdom itself. The speech struck the right note,

and it will give more confidence to peo-

pie overseas and to citizens generally than the Prime Minister himself imagines could possibly be the case. Ever since the signatures of the representatives of the Dominions were attached to the Peace Treaty at Versailles on 28fch June, 1919, there has been a feeling on the part of many intelligent men and women thjit /the future of the 1 Empire may possibly have been endangered thereby. What I mean is this, that I have seen it stated repeatedly, as a result of the . signing of the Peace Treaty, which, of course, included th# Covenant of the League of Nations, the Dominions of the Empire had acquired complete independence, and in case of the Empire being involved in war one of the Dominions might refrain from ' taking part or assisting the Empire in »ny way. ' . FOREIGN POLICY TREATIES. " I do not quite agree with that view, -and I go upon the principle that when tho King, the head of the State, declares war the whole of his subjects are at war, and that must be the case if some of the best constitutional authorities are right. That is one of the causes of anxiety at the present time. There is the other as a. logical sequence of the first that any Dominion—l won't say Dependencies; Dependencies are in a different position— but any Dominion may, on account of has taken place, enter into a treaty 'with ajiy f6reigri country, irrespective of what the Empire as a whole may do. I am not now-referring to a treaty entered into- for commercial purposes—that is quite another matter. As I understand the position, any Dominion may make a commercial arrangement with any foreign country, but the treaties of which I am thinking, and of which many other people are thinking, are treaties involving war or peace or foreign policy, as the case may be. These latter are the treaties which I understand in existing circumstances a Dominion has not the right to enter into. I bring this up now. I had thought of waiting for another year, but ■ one never knows what may happen- during_ twelve months. Personally. I doubt if ifc will be possible to hold the Conference which was intended for next year for reasons which may not perhaps nave occurred to many here present. I think I am right in saying there will be,an , election in Australia next year.' lam not authorised to say this, but I have heard it said that possibly Canada will have an election next year. That I do not know, but I do know this that New Zealand must face an election next year." To Mr. Lloyd George's separate inquiries as to respective lengths of Parliaments, Mr. Massey said- three years, Mr. Meighen said five years, and Mr. Hughes three years. "When Australiahas an election New Zealand has an election. I am suggesting that we shall probably have a number of elections next year, and therefore it may not be possible to hold an Imperial Conference for any purpose whatever." Mr. Hughes: "I am glad you mentioned that. That is one of the practical difficulties. I think I told you, sir, it would be impossible for me to come next year." A DANGEROUS POSITION. „ Mr. Massey: "I was referring to constitutional questions which are causing difficulties at present, and I should like to see them cleared up. I think we are in a dangerous position—a position which may bring friction in a year or tiwo's time or in the years to come. I think it should be faced now, and we. should arrive at an understanding as to exactly where we are. There is another point. The Imperial War Cabinet has been referred to on a number of occasions to-day and yesterday, and I read with .a great deal of interest an article'by Lord Milner. I may say I agree thoroughly with the opinion expressed by Lord Milner in regard to an Imperial War Cabinet. I believe it did-magnificent work, and I hoped that ifc would become a permanent institution, modified, of course, as required by a period of peace. The Imperial War "Cabinet was suitable for a period of war. Ido not mean to say we should go on the same lines. We are here to-day, and I think I am right in saying we do not even know what to call ourselves, and there is a great deal in a name. A conference means consultation, and consultation only, but a Cabinet also carries with it the right to recommend some definite course to the Sovereign. Of course, behind it all there is the responsibility on the part of each representative of the Doriiinions particularly, or even of the United Kingdom, to the Parliaments behind us. We must take tho responsibility of our actions, but I think most of us, all of us, here to-day are experienced politicans, and I am quite sure that we are not likely to-go too far. AN ANOMALY. "There ia another difficulty. The representatives of the Dominions and India meet the representatives of the United Kingdom in. conference, but we . have no right to join in any recommendation that may be made to the Sovereign in regard to any course that requires his assent and which may be though* desirable. Now, lam not anxious about this. I have absolute confidence in the good sense of British peo-" pie and British statesmen, but, still, there is the ajibmaly. There is something there that wants to be put right. Using a term, which is often used, it is not democratic. I do not know whether these matters can be discussed and dealt with during the present conference, and I am ca.Htnig it a conference for want of a better name. What I object to is what the name conference implies. I do not

know whether we are able to deal with it during the term of the present conference or whether we are not, but I do 'think the matter should be settled, and not left over indefinitely. W© sometimes talk albout what we have gained, and we have-gained a great deal. There is no question about that. We have gained in status, and in other ways. We stand in quite a different position from that 'in which the Dominions and dependencies of the Empire, including India, stood ten years ago, but we have gone back as compared with what was the case two years*ago when the Imperial War Cabinet was in existence." j Mr. Hugihes : "I do not quite follow where we have gone back." NAVAL DEFENCE. "I want to say something albout naval defence. It has been referred to by Mr. Hughes, and I -may say that there, is •no difference of opinion! between 'Mr. Hughes and myself in regard to tire •necessity for naval defence. The storm centre has changed undoubtedly 'during the last few yeans, so fair as it i/s possible to judge by appearances, and many ■of us fear that fhe next war—and I wish 1 were optimistic enough to believe we have seen the last of war-s, but I am not —we fear that the next naval war .will be fought in the "Pacific. Human nature has wot changed very 'much in the last 5000 years, amd although we have profited by the lessons of the war, and I would like to think that the lessons of the war would prevent war—the sufferings that tho people of Europe endured, the tremendous loss of life, the misery they endured, I would like to think that these, taken together; or any one of them, would prevent war in the future. lam not looking forward Ws war in the immediate future. There are clouds on the horizon, it is true, some of them perhaps no bigger than the proverbial man's hand, but they are there, and they may bring war sooner than we expect. -The wish, however, is not father to the thought. I hope the indications may come to nothing, and no one will be better pleased than myself if they come to naught, but, so far as naval defence is concerned^l am speaking of the Empire now—a chain of countries right round th.c globe, Dominions, depend»nr cies, at> dthe Empire within an Empire— India, as well as tho United Kingdom— whatever may happen in the future, I do hope that -there will be a sufficient naval force kept* in order to maintain the connections between, the different" parts of the Empire, and that was where there was a danger^ of our losing the last war. In connection with submarine warfare in its worst days, about 1917, before the hydrophone and depth charge had been perfected, when the ships were' being sunk faster than we were able to turn them out, there was a danger then of the connections being cut between the different Dominions and' the heart of the Empire, particularly, or even between thw different countries of the Em-ph-e outside th c United Kingdom, and if the connections had been cut, we should certainly have lost the warnothing could have saved us. Fortunately, things turned out as some of us were optimistic enough to 'expect, but again we have to think of the future, and we have bo remember the lessons of the last war. I know, of course, there are great changes, great improvements, if you can call them improvements, in the instruments of war; Probably different methods, but we can only go as far as our knowledge allows us, and I hope this point will not be lost sight of.' If it were possiblet—for my feeling about war is so strong, and I have no doubt it is shared by everyone present—if it" were possible for me by one stroke of' the pen to strike out the possibility'of war, I would do without hesitation, but it is not. W© know, everyone of us, that there aTe countries in the world to-day, densely inhabited countries that are only;; kept within their own boundaries, and kept from inflicting injustices on their weaker neighbours by the fact that if they did it would probably bring down on them a stronger power thaii themselves. NEW ZEALAND'S NAVAL CONTRIBUTION. "Mr. Hughes referred to the financial side of the question and the up-keep of. the British Navy of the future. I do not snppose that New Zealand is in any better financial position than any other country. We have not been exactly crippled, but we feel the result of the war expenditure,' and we are likely to feel it for some time to come. But for all that—l speak on behalf of New Zealand —I take the responsibility of saying. that New Zealand will find its fair share of tho money necessary to provide a havy strong enough in comparison with other navies to defend the Pacific in case of attack. I hope it will not be necessary, but it is only right that I should express what I feel, and I feel very strongly after seeing what took place on the last occasion in the Southern Pacific upefn the outbreak of war. We have an idea of the possibilities that the future may bring forth, and while I have a great deal of respect for the -opinion of General Smuts, I do think it would be unwise to leave the' countries of the Empire—which means the Empire itself absolutely unprotected. So far as America is concerned, I hope that we shall be able to join with America in that friendly co-operation which you, Sir, referred to in your address yesterday. I would go the iength of saying that so far as I am concerned I am prepared to join in any well-thought-out alliance with America. Personally, Ido not think that is possible, but whatever happens I hope the time will come when America and Britain will join together, n for no other purposes and with no other object than that of keeping the peace of the world and preventing war. VIETUE OF ALLIANCES.' "General Smuts expressed the opinion that we should do without alliances. I am sorry, but I am not able to .join in that opinion. So far as our treaties are concerned we mnst stand by them, even if for the time being they do not seem to be to our advantage. With regard to the treaty which was signed, two years ago at Versailles, and which provided that we—l am speaking of the Empire now—should come to the assistance of FranceMn case of necessity—l do not know whether legally that treaty stands. I doubt it, because America has withdrawn from the position which she then took up. But so far as we are concerned I have no doubt about ouf moral obligation. .. Our reputation for fair and honest dealing is one of our best' assets,' and must be maintained at all costs. Then we must ask ourselves this question: We have got through the worst war the world has ever witnessed —I hope the world will never see another Hke It—but if Britain had been compelled to stand alons in that war, the question that must' oocur -to each and every one of us would be, 'Could Britain -have been successful ?' I doubt it. With all the' confidence that I have in the might and power of Britain, and tho patriotism of her people—and their patriotism, was proved by the fact that 1,000,000 British citizens, the flower of tho Empire, jjave their lives to cave the Empire—l doubt if by ourselves we could have" sloo' up againsit the Powers of Central Europe and., have come out successfully during- tho war.

ANC4LO-JAPANESE TREATY.

"With regard to the Anglo-Japanese Treaty, this is probably one of the most important things we have to deal with. I declined, even to my own Parliament, to discuss details of many matters which I felt confident would.be brought.up be-,, fore this Conference' comes to an end. I took my Parliament into my fullest

confidence so far as the proposed Japanese Treaty was concerned, and I told them that, in my opinion, with whatever modifications may be necessary, I was quite prepared to support its renewal. It is only right to admit that, in saying that, I am guided to a certain extent by what took place during the war period. There was one period of the war, very soon after the war broke out, when New Zealand had 10,000 men ready to send to the front, and the ships and equipment ready to send them, and information reached ub from an official source that.the Pacific was not safe. 1 had an instinct. that it was not safe, but that information decided me, so" far as it was possible for a Prime Minister to decide, and I appealed, perhaps in strong terms and by strong methods, which I thought justified at the time, to tlio British Government to send us pro tection for those 10,000 men before they were sent out into the Pacific, knowing that there was a strolg German squadron in those waters. The strength-of that squadron was proved by what happened afterwards, when they met two quite good British ships—l will not say bat\tieahips, or even.big battle-cruisers, but they met two strong British warships— and sank them with a loss of 1600 men. The ships were the Good Hope, and, I think, the Monmouth." Mr. .Gliurchill: "Yes, that is right." Mr. Massey : "They were there, and it was quite impossible to find out, when our transport. was r.eady to sail, where the German squadron was located. I felt sure that I could not'take the responsibility of sending those m'en out without protection. However, the British Government—l -think Mr. OliiiTchill was the head of the Admiralty ,at that time— acceded to our request, and airra-ngeiments were made wffih Jajpan to send out a fetrong battle -cruiser, not a battleship, with 12in.guns, aoid a powerful British cruiser, the name of| which. I have forgotten, but which had been the flagship of the China squadron." , Mr. QhwebAll: "It was the Minotaur." . ' ' ' Mr. Massey : "When these two ships . came we were perfectly saife. I think our anxiety was justified by the fact— and there are very' few men to-day who. will not recollect it—that that was the trip upon which the Sydney sank',the Emden. By that .time, by the way, 'the' . Australian ships had joined 'outs,' and in the Indian Ocean there were about 28 ships or more, carrying troops totalling, probably, 23,000 men. I will say that 'we were justified in New Zealand La our anxiety for the safety of those men." j NEED FOR PEEPARATION. "My support of the Anglo-Japanese Treaty does not in the very slightest affect the fact that in New Zealand We stand by our right to choose our future fellow-citizens, and it is only fair to say that our legislation on the subject has never been found fault with by either the Japanese or any other race. Personally I-do not think there will be another wax during this generation. It is only right to say so, but wars have come up very unexpectedly; and it is not well to leave the necessary preparations until the last moment. I trust that so far aa naval defence is concerned, and it is on naval defence that the safety of the Empire of the future rests, we shall not be found unprepared. There is just another point arising- out of the ■proposed renewal of the Japanese Treaty, •and it is this. Supposing Japan- had been on the other side? I do not mean to say that is possible, because there was the Treaty, but the Treaty as it is to-day, did not compel Japan ,tp come into the war in the circumstances in connection with which the war was fought. But supposing Japan had been on the enemy, side, one result would have been quite certain, that neither Australia nor New Zealand would have been able to send troops to the front, neither could we have sent food or equipment—equipment for the soldiers and sailors or food for the civil- population of Britain. It would not have been possible. These things have all to be remembered in connection with the xejiewal of the Treaty. I am'prepared to take the American view into consideration. I do not want to leave any wrong impression on that point. lam quite prepared, as I said, to join with America to prevent war, but I must put ,the position as it occurs to^ me and as my experience dictates,) and I do not think any apology is necessary for my doing so. There are several points referred to in : the address by the. Prime Minister which must come up again before the Conference comes to an end, and I was very glad to hear what was said about reparation. Apparently', I missed the report of the negotiations; in all probability the negotiations took place between the time I left New Zealand and before I arrived here." Mr. Lloyd George: "That is.so, I think." Mr. Massey: "I should be very glad indeed to hear a statement made—not merely on my own account, for'l know it* will be of interest to everyone present—of what the exact- position is so far as reparation is concerned." Lord Curzon: "If we circulate the short statement upon that question it might save trouble." Mr. Massey: "Thank you, that will be good enough for me." Lord Curzon: ."I will certainly let you have it." - t LEAGUE OF NATIONS. "I want briefly to refer to some matters which I think should be dealt with. , The League of Nations has already been referred to. I do not know what the future of the League of Nations is going to t be, or. what effect it will have in preventing war. I should like to think it would' do all that it was intended to do by its promoters; but we know, most of ai6, from past history, that attempts to (prevent war have failed. The Holy Alliance, arising out of the Congress of ■Vienna; was ju6t one and a. similar intention to the League of Nations. I do not want to say the League of Nations is beyond hope, because ,1 know better, but the Holy Alliance did fail. I do tot want to find fault with the League of Nations—but until we change human nature I am afraid it will be impossible to prevent war, much, as we should like to do it. SHIPPING ARRANGEMENTS. "Then there is the Imperial Shipping. Committee, set up in pursuance of a- resolution! passed at a previous Imperial Conference. I refer to what is termed the Imperial Shipping ...Committee, but I understand it is only a., temporary arrangement. In the first place, I thought it was to be a permanent 'organisation, but so far it is only temporary. - I do not know when its term of office comes to an end, but I do want to emphasise that the matter of communication between different parts of the Empire is probably one of the most vital things that' this Conference could deal with. It is the old story of the highways. If we do not have good highways between different parts o.f the Empire, then we shall find ourselves in. very serious trouble, a.nd theore is a very great deal of dissatisfaction at, present with the manner in which shipping matters between ditfßrent countries of the Empire are being dealt with or arranged. I do not want to make difficulties, but I think the posi; tion should be faced, and some better arrangements made. :

"I want to say a few words about the holding of future conferences. One of the difficulties is, as Mr. Hughes and myself well know, that it is a long journey from Australia and New Zealand to the heart of the Empire, making it almost impossible to attend these gatherings yearly, and I think these conferences should be held yearly—but

if anything is going to be done in that way, we may look forward to improvements in wireless and improvements in the cable system, yet anything that we do at" present must be based upon steamships and railways. Something ought to be done, and while I do not want to commit the country to it, it may resolve itself into a question of subsidies, so that we may get our mails carried and passengers carried, and our products carried from one country to the other at the lowest possible rates consistent with fair profits, and so far as mails and passengers are concerned, in , a very much shorter time than it is taking at present. NEW HEBEIDES. "There is just one word I want to say regarding another subject, and I am only going to refer to it by way of emphasising the necessity of something being done. I mean the difficulty in which the. New Hebrides is placed, where the.re is a dual form -of government. lam sure most of the members of the Conference understand the position in New Hebrides and the conditions under which the people are governed at present. The present system is absolutely unworkable, and getting into a worse condition all the time. I dp not know what to suggest—except that it might be possible to arrange an«exchange of territory so as to provide one Government for these islands—that ought to be a matter to put before the French Government! There is no question about the fertility. There is quite Na large area'and a large native population rapidly diminishing in number. UNITY OF, EMPIRE. "I have the utmost affection for the 'heart of the Empire. It is the Mecca of ©very British citizen; but I do think tlhat,' ii^tihe interests of both the statesmen of the United Kingdom and the people of the Dooninkaie, meetings should be held periodically in the overseas countries of the Empire. If any suggestion *is given effect to it would give the Prime 'Minister and Mr. Churchill—not both, perhaps, together—an opportunity of visiting the Dominions. You cannot govern the Empire from the windows of Downing-street. I do hope the opportunity will be taken by statesmen at present in the United Kingdom to visit the overseas countries of the Empire, !and they will than understand the view of these countries and the aspirations, of their peoples: ,Tho people in New Zealand never before seemed to appreciate to tJlie same extent the importance of the Imperial Conference until this occasion. They were perhaps never so enthusiastic on any previous occasion. There was practically no opposition to 'my coming to London, and the one point that was impressed uipon me in Parliament and at the poihlie meetings which I attended a few days prior to leaving the Dominion was to stand for unity of Empire, and. if I stood by/them they would foi-giye all my shortcomings in other directions. I have nothing more to say, Prime Minister, and again I thanlt the members of this Conference 'for listening to me co attentively as they 'have done.