TRENTHAM CAMP ROYAL COMMISSION

Evening Post, Volume XC, Issue 16, 19 July 1915, Page 8

TRENTHAM CAMP ROYAL COMMISSION

ENGINEERING DIFFICULTIESI MR. R. W. HOLMES GIVES EVIDENCE. The Commission of Enquiry into the arrangements at Trentham Camp resumed its sittings to-day. The members of the Commission are : His Honour Mr. Justice Hosking (president), Mr. W. Ferguson, and Dr. A. A. Martin. Robert W. Holmes, Engineer-in-Chief of the Public Works Department, said he had had nothing to do up to the present with the erection of hutments at Trentham Camp. It was in his Department, but instructions had been given by the Under-Secretary to his mbordinates. His Honour: Was that an intimation to you _ that you were not to be concerned in the matter! — Yes. And you accordingly took no part? — That is so. Witness aaid that on Thursday last .he was asked by the Minister for Defence to take charge of all the work. He considered the hutments fairly satisfactory. _ They would be rather cold on frosty nights, and some attention would have to be given to the ventilation in the direction of providing means for closing the eaves on the weather side. Ridge ventilation might be found necessary j that was a matter for trial. t With regard to sanitation, he considered that the collection of sewage was satisfactory, but the disposal after collection provided greater difficulties in view of the ground possibly becoming clogged with particles of solid matter. He had under consideration means for dealing with this. Roads could have been improved, porhaps, if it had been understood • exactly what would be required. The principal difficulty arose owing to the great concentration of traffic and men in a comparatively small area. Mr. Ferguson : Up to the present has any insanitary condition arisen? — I have not yet inspected the ground occupied by the tents. His_. Honour said there was a comparative immunity from disease in the tents, and they wished to know the cause. Mr. Holmes replied that the collection of sewage appeared to have worked well, since, when one soak-pit became saturated, another had been opened up. To Dr. Martin : He did not consider that any young man would suffer ill effects from sleeping on the floor in the hutments. He nad slept in much worse places in his younger days. It was not necessary for the huts to be lined. He could not say whether the number of men in a hut was too great.' His Honour : Of course the comforts of ordinary life cannot be expected. Mr. Holmes promised to have a member of his staff prepare a plan of the camp, giving its history as obtained from the military authorities. PROPOSED IMPROVEMENTS. In reply to the Solicitor-General (Mr. J. W. Salmond, K.C.), witness said that improvements , were to be at a cost of approximately £28,000. This would include further hutments, cookhouses, and such buildings, a destructor for camp refuse, perhaps a disinfecting building, reading, and storm- water drainage on the usual street plan, and improved sewerage disposal. As an engineer he considered the site a very suitable one for a camp. It had the gravel sub-soil, which was always looked upon as forming the best area for a oanvp. These buildings were somewhat in the nature of barracks, except as regards, comfort. He had not considered the amount of air-space necessary in barracks. That was more a matter for the medical advising authorities. QUARTERMASTER'S DEPARTMENT. Major James O1O 1 Sullivan, AssistantQuartermaster - General, Headquarters Staff, was asked by his Honour when he received notification that certain quantities of boote were required. The first order for reinforcements was for about 1700 men. His Honour : Have you that notification with you ? — No. It is in the hands of the other Commission dealing with the Stores Department. Witness said that the contract first let by the Department was for 2250 pairs of boots per month, R. Hannah and Co., Wellington, and O'Brien and Co., Christchurch, being the contractors. The difficulty commenced when in addition to the 1700 men originally provided for the authorities put in the Trentham Regiment, Field Artillery, Base Hospitals, and other troops; he could not say the exact number. DIFFICULT TO OBTAIN BOOTS. His Honour : What did you do then ? — I tried to get as many boots as possible made outside, to our pattern. Could not the contractors supply you? — No ; they could not. His Honour : What we want to know is as to whether there was sufficient activity displayed in getting those boots. Ajb a- matter of fact, you don't get enough now ? — No ; we do not. He added that efforts were made at once to increase the supply. Other boot manufacturers were invited to supply at the contract price. At the Commissioner's request, Major O'Sullivan undertook to produce the dates on which requisitions were made for boots. Some of these' requests for supplies were made by telephone or telegraph. "We want to understand why the boots weren't there," said his Honour. BLANKETS NOT SUPPLIED. His Honour questioned the witness in regard to there being no blankets at the camp for some men when they arrived. They had to be sent for on Sunday? — Witness said that the man in charge of the blanket and underclothing department, , Mr. Sewell, received an order for certain articles. He neglected to send out the number of blankets, because, ho said, ho had been out at the camp two or three days before, and some of the storemen had told him that they had more blankets than they required. Did he make that explanation to you? — No; ho did not. Is he still in the Department? — Yes; he is one of the new men brought in. Have you had other cases like that, where men have acted on verbal instructions without reference to you? — No. Witness said that he was notified on Sunday morning that there was likely to be a shortage for the men coming in that day. He procured a motor-lorry, and assisted to load it himself, so that no man was without blankets that night. The Commission notified that it would require tho attendance of certain of Major O'Sullivan's subordinates. MISFIT UNIFORMS. With respect to the statement that certain uniforms were returned, witness said that all that were objected to were of size No. 9, which wae too large in the neck. These had apparently been faultily made, passed by the Clothing Inspector of the Department, received into store, and sent out to camp, Tojfce SolicitcnQtmetAL-Mftior O'Sul-

livan said that factories had been invited to supply as many boots as possible at the contract price. Not sufficient offers had been received. Additional suppliers were : Northern Boot Co. (Auckland), Cole's (Auckland), Staples and Co. (Wellington), Colonial Factory (Wellington), Skelton, Frostick, and Co. (Christchurch). The Department would be glad to receive further offers, as there were not sufficient boots coming forward. He had received no complaints as to the quality of the boots and clothing. To Mr. Ferguson : He could not 6ay whether a test was made in England as to the amount of water absorbed by a booL No test was made here. They were glad to get any good solid boot. ANOTHER ENQUIRY. j In regard to the difficulty of obtaining documents bearing on the work of the Stores Department, the Solicitor-General explained that another enquiry was now being held concerning the internal and financial administration of the Stores Department. DESIGNING THE HUTS. John Campbell, Government Architectj said he was appointed one of an advisory board to criticise plans prepared by the Defence Department for Hutments at Trentham. They criticised the plans, made a few alterations, and then working drawings, embodying the suggestions made by the board, were made under his direction. The size of the huts was considered, and the board did not think that 100 in each hutment (fifty in each division) waß too great a number with adequate ventilation. • Originally the huts were to contain fifty men, but the board threw two huts together. The idea of having separate huts was to provide for air, but the board considered that there was sufficient cross ventilation, and that the cost of one wall might be saved. The Solicitor-General : Do you consider the huts should be lined ? — No ; we considered that, as the huts were designed to replace tents on the ground of expense, unlined huts would be quite as comfortable as tents, and much more durable. The sample hut when first erected did not embody all the suggestions put forward by the board ; but the other alterations were made before any of the huts were occupied. One of the improvements waa a fillet to prevent a draught from coming up from the base of tho walls. LIGHT AND AIR. The board did not alter the distance between huts, but lowered the walls from 10ft to 7ft, so as to provide better access of free air and Bunshine. The Defence Department asked them to erect a certain number of huts on a given space. The board did not reduce the number, since it was considered the air and sun space were quite sufficient. To Dr. Martin : He did not consider it a hardship for a, young man to sleep on the floor of the huts. Dr. Martin : Do you consider 100 men too many for a hut? — No; in a hut a 1 man has 300 ft air space, against about 60ft in the tent, and 31ft floor space against 15ft in the tent. CAMP HOSPITAL. To his Honour : Plans for tho camp hospital were completed on 29th March, not taking more than three or four weeks, as they were put through with all speed. The Advisory Board comprised : Dr. Frengley (of the Health Department), Mr. W. H. Morton (City Engineer), and himself. The board considered plans submitted by the Defence Department were unsuitable. The number of beds was retained in the new plans, but there were other considerable alterations in the accommodation provided. An isolation ward of four beds was made, one large ward of ten beds, and two one-bed rooms. MEDICAL CRITICISM. Dr. Martin: Was this the hospital that the medical profession subscribed a large sum of money for? — He had nothing to do with the funds. Mr. Ferguson : But that was a matter of common knowledge? — Yes. " Dr. Martin: Was any representative of the medical profession at any time consulted on your board with regard to" the plans? — Not that I know of. Witness explained that a small operating room was designed for minor operations only. Dr. Martin : Suppose a man in the camp had appendicitis, would he be operated out here? — No; I don't think it was even intended that such a serious operation should be performed there. We were told that only minor operations were to be performed there, and that no special lighting would be required. Dr. Martin : You are definite about that. This hospital was not designed to meet any serious surgical emergency in the camp? — No, only for minor matters. Mr. Campbell said that he received his instructions from the board, which considered the Defence Department's plans, and accepted his offer to prepare others. The contract was much behind time now. He understood that one occasion for the delay was the shortage of tim-. ber. ( Dr. Martin : You received no instructions to provide a room to sterilise surgical instruments and dressings ? — No, it was understood that Dr. Frengley would advise later what was required. There is no room in which instruments and dressings could be sterilised? — No, not in the plans. To the Solicitor-General : In the preEaration of plans he understood that oth Mr. Morton and Dr. Frengley consulted military manuals. He did not know how far the designs followed the principles laid down. The ventilation of the huts, ho considered, wa3 quite sufficient, but not more than enough With cross ventilation there was rio need for ridge ventilation. There would be no_ draughts, but a galvanised iron building would appear draughty because it would not warm up. " The Board did not consider tho comfort of the men, but their health." WERE THEY CROWDED? To Mr. Skerrett : There was no military member of the Advisory Board, He had heard the suggestion that it was not the military practice to put more than 24 men in a hut. Mr. Skerrett : Do you know that thes6 huts provide for less than half the regulation floor space for men in barracks? — I am aware of that. And less than half the regulation air space? — A little more than half. Witness said that the ventilation wao such that the men were sleeping in air as fresh as if they were outside, but they were protected against the weather. _ Mr. Skerrett : Apparently, the alterations made by your board were in the direction of cheapness rather than improvement and comfort? — Witness said not. The board increased the window and light space, provided floors, in stead of merely a sleeping platform, and reduced the ventilation space under the eaves. You reduced the height, and put two into one? — That is so. CONGESTION SUGGESTED. Did you or your Advisory Board consider that what was being done was tho | erection of a military town of 7000 men within quite a small space? — We were never advised that 7000 men were to be | accommodated. We received instructions to prepare for 3500. There were about 4000 men in camp at that time. Did it not occur to you that this was like putting a town of Petone's aize into ten or twelve acres? — Mr. Campbell replied that there wero towns with 300 or 400 people to the acre. You have. ua.oh«A£VAi,inD to m&kft on

that point? No. I have had nothing to do with th<> 7000 men To Mr. Gray : These buildings were not designed as barracks, but merely for sleeping' and eating in. There was unlimited air space in front of the huts. In regard to the hospital witness said that the building was partly plastered, as it might have been difficult to obtain *n_ adequate supply of properly seasoned lining. It was not considered necessary to plaster the corridors. FURTHER SITTINGS. His Honour stated that the Commission had visited the camp in order to become familiar -with the site. Tomorrow it would take the evidence of Dr. Frengley and men from the quartermaster's department. Mr. Skerrett said he would call Dr. DeLatour, who would give evidence on general lines, not criticising the medical arrangements particularly. He had also two witnesses from Christchurch. The Commission intimated that it would hear this evidence on Friday. Mr. Bates, Government Meteorologist, is also to be called this week. The Commission adjourned until 11 a.m. to-morrow.