THE BLOCKADE

Evening Post, Volume LXXXVI, Issue 90, 13 October 1913, Page 3

THE BLOCKADE

HOUSE SITS TILL MIDNIGHT LEASEHOLD v. FREEHOLD , MINING LANDS. AN APPROPRIATION CLAUSE. When The Post went to press on Saturday afternoon the Land Laws Amendment Bill was still in committee, and since an early hour on Friday evening members had been engaged in discussing clause 25, which proposed to give holders of Crown leases in the Hauraki mining district the right to acquire the freehold. The member for Thames had moved a new sub-clause to provide that the royalties, rates, and fees on mining lands should go to the owners of the land. The Hon. J. A. Millar (as stated in Saturday's Post) urged that this was an appropriation clause. Mr. Speaker was called in, and further discussion ensued. After debate, the Speaker said that, so far as he could see, what he required to know before he could give his- decision on the question was whether this sub-clause 2 (a) put these owners in a better position than they had been, under clause 25. WERE MINERAL RIGHTS GIVEN AWAY? Hon. Mr. Millar put the position, so far as he understood it, thus : The Crown reserved the minerals to itself under clause 25, and, after thus reserving the mineral rights, under its new subsection those rights were deliberately given away. "I challenge the Minister for Finance ■ (this in reply to an interjection of Mr. Allen) to show under clause 25 any power whatever to give away the fees and royalties that the Crown is entitled to." The Prime Minister said, that 'the minerals belonged to the Crown and the surface rights to the owner of the fee simple, and it was impossible to deal with the minerals until agreement as to surface rights had been arranged. He added that the word "royalties" should not be there. It was inserted by an error on the part of the law draughtsman. An Opposition member: What about coal? The Prime Minister replied that, legally, coal was not a mineral. The Hon. Mr. Millar : What about the Brighton case? /To this Mr. Massey answered that coal was specially mentioned there. The Hon. Mr. Millar: Is not'it going to be specially mentioned in the Hauraki cases? The Prime Minister replied that he did not know, and added something which could not be heard. Mr. Russell: What would happen to these rents, royalties, and fees if this sub-clause were not included? — that is the question. Mr. Poland considered that the word " minerals " included coal, coal undoubtedly being a mineral. Therefore, if coal were discovered on this land the fees, royalties, ■ etc., i would go to the individual owner ana not to the Crown. Sarely this meant placing the individual in a better position. DECISION RESERVED. The Speaker: "The whole thing rests on the question as to whether on this sub-section 2a being added it has put the owner of the land in a better position than he would otherwise have been had the sub-sectiota. not been added." The various opinions had been very conflicting — too conflicting for him to give a decision offhand on a question such as this. He would rather reserve hie decision, if that could be done. If these fees and royalties were something over and above what clause 25 conferred, then undoubtedly the amendment was an appropriation. " 1 cinnot say offhand that this is so," added the Speaker, "but it appears at a first reading that that is the case." All depended on the position of the owner of the land had this sub-section not been added. Asked as to the possible effect of Mr. Speaker's ruling, the Prime Minister said that if Mr. Speaker ruled that the clause was an appropriation clause the sub-clause would cease to exist. He proposed, however, to recommitr the subclause and substitute another clause. Mr. Speaker then left the chair, and the House resumed consideration of the Bill in Committee. SHORT TENURE LEASES. ' Discussion was continued on the proposal to extend the freehold to holders of pastoral lands in the Hauraki Mining District on a 21 years' tenure. Mr. Russell protested strongly, and urged that all the owners concerned should be given the right of a'^uiring the freehold and the areas he sold by auction. The Prime Minister thought thut the hon. member for Avon had not grasped the position. Deputations had waited on Ministers for several years past, and asked that the land should be placed under the optional system, but members would see that if the land was opened under the optional system the minerals could not be retained. He had. asked the law draftsman to draft a clause that would provide tho granting of the fee simple, but would reserve all the mineral rights. The Hon. Mr. Massey went on to say that with the exception of a limited area of fiat country on the Tauranga side the land would never become agricultural land. He had not come across one man who had taken up occupation leases who was satisfied. The people in the locality were very anxious that, providing the mining rights could be preserved, the land should be opened up as pastoral holdings. That was the object of the Bill. There was absolutely nothing to hide. He went on to express regret that an unfair attack had been made on the member for Thames, who throughout had acted disinterestedly. Mr. Seddon said that as a. representative for a mining district he would raise a strong protest against a mining district being converted in this way. Mr. Young vigorously defended the member for Thames (Mr. T. W. Rhodes), described the country affected as wild and hilly, and said it did not require second sight to see why the Bill was being stuck up. "A CUT-THROAT BUSINESS." Then the party system of government roused Mr. Young to vigorous denunciation of the whole system, which he described as a cut-throat business. Mr. Laurenson rose in self-and-bro-therly defence. " What a tremendous outburst of fury and sound?" he cried.' "What a shrieking and bellowing fop principle. Here is a principle involved m this measure which, if the hon. gentleman has a drachm of principle about him, should move him to join with us in resisting to his last breath." SERIOUS CHARGES. The Prime Minister explained that the charges against Mr. Rhodes were so serious that he could not allow them to be passed over. He asked Mr. Laurenson to supply him with that part of a letter referring to Mr. Rhodes which he had read. Mr. Laurenson: I am very glad the Prime Minister is going to enquire into these ftUegaUonu,

Mr. Massey asked whether the letter had come direct to Mr. Laurenson or to someone else who had handed it over to him. Mr. Laurenson : It came direct to me. Mr. T. W. Rhodes said he was glad that the statements made in the anonymous_ letter, "the mean, contemptible, scurrilous letter," were to bo enquired into. Apart from the fact that he was the occupier of the land, it was nothing but a tissue of untruths. Mr. Laurenson : That's all it says. Mr. Rhodes : It says a great deal more, and it implies a great deal more. I hope it will be probed to the • very bottom, and I hope the name of the skunk that wrote it will come out. Mr. Rhodes, speaking in support of the clause, said it would promote the settlement of a vast area of land, and would make the district prosperous. As far as the sub-clause was concerned, he did not think it would affect his holding, and he had not moved it in his own interests. , The debate slackened to that steady, laboured gait which indicates in the realm of politics a long journey to the end. Members for the most part appeared to be dividing their attention between the day's news in the evening paper and the naive arguments of Mr. Parata (Southern Maori) in support of the form of tenure known as the 999 years' lease. Surely that was long enough, he argued, and added that it would take a man all his time to see it out. SPEAKER'S RULING MR. RHODES'S AMENDMENT RULED OUT. When the House resumed at 7.30 p.m Mr. Speaker took the chair and gave his ruling on the point raised. He had been asked, he said, to give his ruling as to whether the sub-clause was an appropriation clause. He was of opinion that if it was added to the Bill it would take away something that tho Crown would otherwise have, and therefore he ruled that it was an appropriation clause. _ It was scarcely necessary j to add that it could, be met by a Governor's message. Mr. Speaker then left the chair, and the House went again into Committee. Sir Joseph Ward (to the Prime Minj ister) : Whai, do you propose to do? The Prime Minister : I propose to go on with the business as soon as the members of the Opposition stop obstructing. Sir Joseph Ward : That is not answering the question. Mr. Witty : You might be civil, anyhow. The Prime Minister: Tha aub-clause will cease to exist. Mr. Witty : Won't it have to be deleted? The Prime Minister : No, it is out. I intend to bring down a new clause by Governor's message. Sir Joseph Ward : You don't know the nature of it? The Prime Minister: (N«, T can't say at present. A little later Mr. Webb said he believed that the people of New Zealand were tired of the way in which business was being carried on in the House. He had attended Labour conferences and meetings of miners' unions, and they did more business in five minutes than the members on the Government side of the House would do in a lifetime. " Will the hon. member speak to the question?" requested the chairman. Mr- Webb delivered a heated harangue against the proposals of the Government to give away "the heritage of the people." He made no apology for the stoppage of business, and hoped the Opposition would oppose the Bill, and if, necessary stonewall it, so that its progress would be rendered impossible. OUT FOR THE NIGHT. It became evident then that the House was "out for the night," and that Government members had had tho seal of silence removed from their lips; One of the first to take advantage of the permission was Air C. K. Wilson, of Taumai'unui.' "That," he said (pointing to Mr. G. W. Russell in the course of 6ome more or less relevant remarks), "is the sort of mungamunga that grows ,on the leasehold." 1 " Mungamunga," it may be explained, is a word without any particular meaning. If it is spelt " mungamungu " it means " black fellow/ or words to that effect. Mr. Russell construed the term as "mungamungu." He challenged Mr. Wilson's right to use such a term, and moved that the words be taken down. ] He was defeated by 32 votes to 20, and an interesting episode ended by Mr. Russell informing the Houbo that- j "there is no such Maori word as mungamunga, but there is such a Maori word as mungamungu." , PROTEST TO IMPRESS THE ! PUBLIC. Just before 9 p.m. Mr. Laurenson delivered a dissertation against the proposal on behalf of the freehold contained iii the Bill. It did not matter, he said, how divisions went. The opponents to the clause objected to the land passing oufc of the control of the people. Pie believed that the protest the Opposition was making would impress the public, and because of the principle they were fighting for he contended that time wa<j not being wasted. The clause under discussion was the first ■ step towards reduciri" the area set apart I for national reserves. It was indicative of the interest taken by the public in the stonewall that at 11 o clock the galleries were fairly full, and the majority of members were awake. Taking advantage of every opportunity, the Opposition raised the point as to how many times and for how long they should be allowed to speak, and Mr. G. W. Russell moved to report progress in order to obtain Mr. Speaker's ruling. The Government Whip went round, and as a result the motion was carried on the voices. 'The point in dispute was technical, although it meant a good deal to the Opposition, whose desire was to take full advantage of the standing orders so as to enable them to carry on the debate with the least possible trouble. Mr. Speaker ruled that \Mr. Russell had exhausted his right of speaking, and the House again went into ComI mittee. It was the old stonewall — but it was I evident that the opponents of the Bill were determined. Just before midnight the Chairman for the occasion (Mr. W. H. D. Bell) left the chair, and members went home until 2.30 this afternoon.