N.Z. UNIVERSITY.

Evening Post, Volume LXXIX, Issue 127, 1 June 1910, Page 3

N.Z. UNIVERSITY.

MOVEMENT FOR REFORM. PUBLIC MEETING AT THE TOWN 1 HALL. j INTERESTING SPEECHES. 'A public meeting was held in the Concert Chamber of the Town HalJ last evening to consider the question of uni- , vorsity reform which ha,s lately . been discussed in the newspapers here. The Mayor (Mt. T. M. Wilford) presided, and Professors Yon Zedlitz, Easterfield, and Maclaurm, Messrs. G. Hogben (In-spector-General of Schools), Mr. A. de B. Brandon (chairman of the College Governors), Messrs. A. L. Herdman, R. A. Wright, W. Fraser, J. P. Luke, Ul.P's., H. Johnston, and J. O'Sheaalso occupied seats on the plattorm. The attendance was not large. The body of the hall was only about half filled, while the gallery was occupied by a few students of Victoria College. The audience included . a number of ladies. The chairman said he had numbers of »pologies from, people who were unable to attend. He thought it would be ehown by the arguments adduced that theTe was real need for university reform. His Excellency the Governor sent an apology, while one was also Teceived from Sir Joseph Ward. The latter stated that any movement which had for its object the bringing about of a greater degree of efficiency in our university system would have his best wishes for its success. Mr. Wdlford stated that the professors, who would speak, represented the leading universities of the world. He would not presume to go into the question, but would ieavn it to those more qualified to speak. The movement for reform originated with the Professorial Board of [Victoria College. SIR ROBERT STOUT'S OPINION. Sir Robert Stout, who was unable to be present, wrote as follows to Professor Easterfield : — , "I have to acknowledge the invitation of you and others connected with Victoria College to attend a meeting in the Town Hall on Tuesday next to consider the question of forming a University Reform Association. I am afraid that my duties at the Supreme Court will prevent my attending. Everyone recognises that the last word has not been said on university management and that reform is always proceeding, and must always proceed, for the ideal is ever in the distance in human affairs. I should like much, however, to have it definitely stated what is the goal towards which you and others think we should attain. As I understand it, there are such questions as : who are to be the examiners^ what is to be the programme of studies, late. ? May I point out that I have on more occasions than one moved resolutions in reference to degrees. I did so in 1889, j and the resolution I then moved, though not accepted, has in many respects been embodied in our curricula. I wished thai our science should deal more with the practical wants of the comxnnnity than it did then ; this has been given effect to. You will see the resolution at page 19 of the minutes of proceedings for 1889. I also moved in 1890, now twenty years ago, for our degrees to be more logical than perhaps they are afc present. You will see my insolation at page 10 of the minutes of tho proceedings of the university. It was not passed, and I think we are approaching to it now in our altered curricula. I send you a copy of what I then proposed. I mention this to show that I am not opposed to reasonable reforms coming gradually, and reforms that are suited to our circumstances. "MUST GO CAUTIOUSLY." "We cannot expect for years to come to be equal to the great institutions of Europe. We have not the means, and we cannot employ the number of profesBors and teachers that they have in great universities in Europe and America. We are a small people^ and we must go cautiously and in accordance with our means. I may, however, point out that, so far as examinations are concerned, I think you will find that in English Universities the teachers are hi many cases — indeed, in most cases — tutors, and that only in a few of the subjects are the teachers examiners. Examinations are required, and they are by men who have never seen the students, or, at any rate, who have never taught them. That is so in many of- the subjects both in Oxford and Cambridge, and I know that in many of the other universities efforts are continually made to get outside examiners, so that it should not rest with tho teacher to say what degree his student should obtain. I feel sure that if we had had examiners in New Zealand in the past, they would have been quite unsatisfactory. It may be that our examinations may require some viva voce elements. That takes place, I know, in some of the professional degrees in England, especially the medical ; but that also takes place in our medical degree since we trust to local examiners. This is a matter in which it is desirable to have the opinions of the professors. INITIAL REFORM. "I may further say that, so far as our programme of studies in our university is concerned, that the university has always invited the professors to make suggestions, and when the professors have been agreed, the suggestions, I think, have always been accepted. The only cases in which suggestions have not been accepted were cases in which the professors were not agreed. May I suggest, then, that the initial reform may be to try to get university professors throughout New Zealand to agree as to what they desire. The main reform needed is that all the professors of one subject should be of one mind. If this is impossible, how, then, is it for those who are lay r men to jndge as to what is to be done?" EXTRACTS FROM MINUTES. Extract from the minutes of the proceedings of the New Zealand University Senate, IS9O, page 10 :— lt was -iioved by Sir R. Stout : "That it be referred to a committee to consider :—: — (1) Whether the pass degree of the university could not be put on a more satisfactory footing, and a specialisation of studies permitted ? such as — (a) A classical course, including Latin and Greek as compulsory subjects ; .(b) <t literary course, to have two languages in addition to English compulsory ; (c) a philosophical course, having mental and moral science, political science, and advanced general history compulsory ; (d) four or more courses in science, having special branches ot science, such as (1) physical science, (2) chemical science, (3) science applied to industrial arts or agriculture, (4) natural science, made compulsory ; (c) a musical course, making music and its history, and scientific subjects bearing on music compulsory ; (f) a law course, similar to the LL.B. course ; (g) a course dealing with pedagogy. (2) The degrees so specialised ought to be thus

named :— (a) Bachelor of Arts, (b) Bachelor of Literature, (c) Bachelor of Philosophy, (d) Bachelor of Science, (c) Bachelor of Music, (f) Bachelor of I Laws, (g) Bachelor of Pedagogy, and for honours in the subjects, or for a higher examination, the degrees of Master and Doctor could be granted. PROFESSOR, YON ZEDLITZ'S VIEWS. Professor yon Zedlitz was the principal speaker for the Professorial Board of Victoria College. At the outset he referred to the importance of the university to the co-nmercial and industrial life of the community as well as its relation to scientific subjects. The great commercial and industrial progress of Germany was largely attributed to her efficient, universities. In the United States an immense system of universities had sprung up on the basis of practical usefulness to the community and this practical usefulness has been recognised by lavish endowments from States, municipalities' and wealthy private sources. In Great Britain and Australia, too, the change of ideals had beea felt, and had made great strides, particularly in the last ten years. The methods and ideals of the New Zealand University dated from before the beginning of these changes in Great Britain. NEED FOR UNIVERSITY REFORM. In the last thirty years the progress of New Zealand was marvellous, but the methods and ideals of the university had remained practically the same. The professorial staff of Victoria College felt that it amounted to a fraud on the public if it continued to receive professorial emoluments without publicly proclaiming the urgent need for reform. The professors themselves, liad no sort of power entrusted to thsm to accomplish these reforms. Worse still, no one was to blame for the present state of affairs I They were imprisoned in a thoroughly bad system which provided no means of gradual reform from within. " For that reason they asked the whole educated community to insist on the application of a little plain common sense to the situation. The injustice done to students drove them (the professors) to lay the case before the public. He wished to sp*ak plainly on behalf of all his colleagues. He believed his colleagues and himself were doing useful valuable work — (applause) — and he could not speak too highly of the energy, patience, and intelligence of a large proportion of the students — they had kept one hopeful in a sea ot discouragement. He declared that the university placed every possible hindrance in the way of good work. He referred to his own case, and said that instead of being asked to teach thoroughly such parts of the enormous subjects entrusted to him in the pompous syllabus he was merely supposed to give out the sort of .summary information any text book could furnish. The system of studying literature, for instance, by learning up for examination the dates of books by authors, and a summary criticism of their literary position without reading any of their works, was valueless from all points of view. It could be forgotten a few weeks after the examinations. But still the university gave him no power to see that the 5-tudents' work became a reality instead of a sham. The success of a student depended upon an examiner in England. Personally, he believed that such an examination could not propeily test how a student's information had been obtained. No actual reading of authors was requisite for examination success. When he came here he found that degrees, anil scholarships, and honours in modern languages could be obtained by students who could neither speak nor understand a word of the spoken language. To meet the case he commenced the teaching of extra classes for spoken languages, and then the perfect beauty of the New Zealand University system was revealed to him. It was pointed out to him that theoretically such classes were desirable, but practically they were objectionable. Why? Because they had to take five or six so-called subjects for a degree; because they had to attend- lectures of three hours weekly in three or four subjects ; because they had to write exercises, read set books, learn "periods of literature," revise lecture notes; because the university contemplated that the normal student was employed in an office till 5 p.m., and had at most, say, five evening hours daily for all that work to which he had referred. Therefore, any attempt to make the student do any work not requiied for the examination was unfair. If a professor succeeded in interesting his student and stimulated him to do work outside the actual examination requirements the whole lovely system of our degrees toppled over! The work of a university to be satisfactory had to centre round one main purpose. On the contrary, however, here it was laid down that a student shall take six subjects, no matter how heterogeneous. If the examinations were in the hands of the professors there would be some remedy, but this was denied to them. They were the only body of university teachers in the world who were absolutely powerless to apply this remedy. PRIMARY NEEDS OF NEW ZEALAND. Professor yon Zedlitz referred at some length to previous attempts made to improve the present state of affairs by Sir Robert Stout, Mr. Robert Lee, and others, and to the suggestions put forward by Dr. Starr Jordan, president of the Leland-Stanford University, of California, that the University of New Zealand should confine itself chiefly to the primary needs of New Zealand. Then the senate set up a committee to deal with the matter, but the report appeared to the professors here to be the merest travesty cf Dr. Jordan's suggestions. Reverting to external examination he said they simply suggested that a system followed by any one of the groups of universities of -.he world should be decided on. Their system at present was only another illustration of the comic opera principles on which our university was run. In all other universities, except this one, ' the professors as a whole were responsible for the examinations ; and as leach member of the Professorial Board had to satisfy his colleagues, the whole body was naturally jealous of the honour of the degree. The external examiner was not concerned with the standard of the education given. If a professor encouraged students to throw private study and research to the winds, and went through an easy effortless I round of routine work, there was no ' check on him at all. Examinations and degree requirements should be conducted on lines drawn up by the professorial boards in the four centres. The senate in 1910 not only refused to abolish •external examinations, but refused, by 13 votes to six, to even allow the subject to be referred to a committee without prejudice. It was no answer to say the four professorial boards could not agree. If each separate professor were asked a question by the senate, 30 or 40 different ■answers would be received ; but if the senate asked one conference, only one reply would be given. The chief fault of the degrees lay in the inter-relation of the subject and the method of examination. On these questions fthe senate took good care not to consult the professorial boards. He hoped he had shown that the university was in need of an outside enquiry that would apply not only technical knowledge but above all horse sense. (Applause.) A MEMBER OF PARLIAMENT SPEAKS. Mr. Herdman, M.P., said it gave him great pleasure to take part in the meeting, and to assist the profeEsors who

were assisting the movement of reform. As a citizen of this country he was seriously concerned as to the future university life of the Dominion. As he was listening to Professor Yon Zedlitz three facts impressed him. First, the whole of the professors' colleagues were with him ; second, the professor under the present system became in fact a coach ; third, the general trend of the life of the student was to aim at the obtaining of degrees. Mr. Herdman referred to a report recently compiled on the constitution and work of the University of Victoria in which it was stated that the aim of the university was not to confine itself to the granting of degrees, but to the uplifting and the broadening of the student. In New Zealand the university in the past had produced excellent men. He mentioned the names of Professors Rutherford and Maclaxirin, and went on to say that the influence of a university was enormous. To-day the universities oi the world were competing with one another, and if we wished to keep in the path of progress w© had to be modern. If the foundations- were beginning to quiver and reforms were required it was the duty of every good citizen to support this movement. He wished to make it clear that no reflection was placed upon the gentlemen who, in the past had borne the Durden and the heat of the day in carrying on the university. In conclusion he hoped that the movement for reform would go on. It had been suggested that a Royal Commission should be set up, but his experience of Royal Commissions was that instead of bringing out the truth that they succeeded in concealing it. He supposed, however, that a Royal Commission would have to be set up, and he suggested that it should consist- of say Mr. Fink (who had compiled tt« Victorian report to which he Bad previously referred), Mt. Justice Williams, and another gentleman of professional standing in the community. Such a commission would ascertain what was really required. (Applause.) AN INJUSTICE TO THE STUDENTS. Professor Easterfield made an appeal foi reform on behalf of the students themselves. He referred to the incongrous grouping of subjects which was insisted on at present, the argument being that the university aimed at general culture. He would be the last to decry general culture, but he argued that a student deciding to go in for zoology, say, should take cognate subjects. The present system was an injustice to the student, and a hardship on the professors. The professors had to keep themselves up to date but there was no encouragement for them to do so to-day. ASSOCIATION FORMED. Mr. Harold Johnston moved :—: — "That it is advisable to form a University Reform Association to promote the efficiency of higher education in the Dominion." He said he was not competent to say whether the reforms suggested were sufficient to meet the needs of the case; they had to say whether a case had been made out. Were they not, after what they had heard that evening, a little afraid that the university was not doing as much as it might for the benefit of the country? Mr. G. Hogben (Inspector-General of Schools) seconded the motion. He said he was a member of that much-abused body, the- University Senate. Like most legislative bodies, the senate had a majority and a minority, and unfortunately he was still in the minority. In that connection Mr. Herdman could sympathise with him. He claimed that the professorial boards were the best and the soundest judges of what was best for the student. (Applause.) He was a sound believer in liberty for the teacher or professor. If they were to be controlled at all, they should be controlled by those who were experts in the work. He could not conceive of any adjective which was too strong to adequately describe the absurdity and the ineffectiveness of the system of having examiners 12,000 miles away to see whether the work of the students here was sound. Reliance on outside examiners took away the very soul of the work. Were the professors in New Zealand the only ones in the world who were incapable of taking part in the examination of their students? Without liberty for the teacher — which was impossible under the present system — the highest results could not be obtained. In conclusion, he said it gave him great pleasure to second the motion. GENERAL DISCUSSION. Mr. C. W. Tanner, solicitor, endorsed the last speaker's views regarding the present examination system. Mr. Basil Stocker said the objects of the proposed association would be better served by the setting up of a Reform Committee within the Senate. The present movement looked 1 like separation, and it appeared to be a little invidious to proceed in the way suggested. Dr. Prendergast Knight said he supported the movement. Mr. J. O'Shea (City Solicitor) opposed the scheme to establish a Reform Association. The outside examination eliminated the personal equation— and after all professors were only human. If he had" been a professor he would have had a great deal of confidence in himself! Mr. Williams said that reform should commence in the primary schools, then extend to the secondary schools, and lastly deal with the university. For that reason he protested against the present movement. He wanted to see the university free to even-body — not free, as was th& case to-day, to the capitalistic class. Dr. Wallace M'Kenzie said the whole of our system of primary education was wrong. The suggested association could take the whole range of education under ite notice- and gradually build up its scheme for reform. Mr. Syd. Jenkinson, an engineering graduate of Canterbury College, said that the remedy was in the professors own hands. "They can teach up to tho standard they think right," he said. Mr. Jenkinson also endorsed the system of examinations, and mentioned that the engineering degree was Tecognis-ed throughout the world. Mr. De la Mare said that he did not think the opinions of the new Zealand University men who had spoken against the proposal were representative. All the students he thought were looking for reform. (Applause from the students in the gallery.) Before the meeting concluded, Mr. \ViLford said one could not but be impressed with the earnestness of the speakers, and the wealth of detail which they had collected. There was no doubt that a big field for exploration had been opened up. The motion was carried, and several people handed in their names as members of the association.