THE ESTIMATES.

Evening Post, Volume LXX, Issue 34, 9 August 1905, Page 2

THE ESTIMATES.

THE "MEMO." SYSTEM AGAIN. MORE DISCUSSION IN THE HOUSE., THE PEEMIER UNREPENTANT. "" THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL; . NARROW ESCAPE OP THE, GOVERNMENT. " r> bs&s The all-round discussion on the Estimates afforded by the "first item" -was chiefly concerned for the first few hours ■with the "memo." system, the alleged blouses of which were debated with much vigour. Other matters now and then were introduced, and when the House got tired of the '"momo." scandal it traversed a variety of subjects, most of which are already well worn. The Leader of the Opposition opened the debate by complaining of the late period of the session at which the r Public Works Statement and Estimates were brought down. The result was that no time was given for their proper consideration. The House had a, right to bo dissatisfied ; two millions of money had to be voted, and sufficient time should be given to members to fully understand what was involved. The Premier said he would endeavour to 'have the Public Works Statement brought down not later than three weeks from date. That, he explained, had nothing to do with the general election, but influence had been brought to bear on. the Government to get the money voted early so as to have a start made with the work in the summer. Settlement was m advance of loading, and *c believed that the vote' to be made would show that the Government had tried to grapple with the difficulty. The bulk of the work should be done in the districts where it was most required, no matter who represented the district. They must, 'however, consider every part of the colony, as every taxpayer contributed his share of the cast. He honed the. Estimates would give general satisfaction. A good deal of work, he added, had been done since the end of the financial year on roads, etc., that had already been' commenced. The Leader of the Opposition declared that owing to so much of the works bejng done in the winter the colony only got fifty per cent, of the value of the money expended. Mr. Herries complained of the way in which the Estimates are presented this year They did not, in some classes, show how much had been spent on the various items the previous year. It was a departure of" concealment, and he objected to it. Again, iii the permanent charges, under the Land for Settlements Act, there was an item of interest on £38,600 for six months. He could not find that amount in the public debt. Why was interest charged for six months? Mr. James Allen remarked that last year the sum of £30,000 was voted for the South African service and £35,000 was spent. Who, he asked, was interested in the service? That over-payment did noj; appear on the Estimates as they are brought .down this year. He had had to search it out for himself. The proceedings in the afternoon were decidedly dull, but, tinder the influence of the full fral'.eries, things brightened up considerably! after dinner. Mr. James Allen referred to the adV mission of the Lyttelton Times that the Premier's Pahiatua speech had been sent to it as a "memo.," and he entered a protest against these speeches being sent to selected_Ministerial papers. The House and country were entitled to know who paid for these memos. Mr. Hawkins said that members of the House hod told him th£t when they sent telegrams to Ministers on public questions they made them "collect," and they wore franked at the other end. If, contended Mr. Hawkins, this privilege was allowed to supporters of the Government, it should be allowed to all members of the House, irrespective of party. The Premier read the regulations of the Post and Telegraph Department dealing with "collect" telegrams, and wanted to know if. members were not to be allowed to use that regulation the same as any one else? Mr. Hawkins : Ifc's not the same thing. The' Premier said Ministers sometimes telegraphed to members asking for information, not on the "memo." system, and the member in such & case ought not to be called on to pay for the reply. So long as that regulation existed a telegraph officer could not refuse a^fllkcW' telegram to Minister* either •from a member or any one else. He .would be frank with members. Other people besides members had sent "collect" telegrams to Ministors, and the practice grew. To refuse caused irritation to the senders, and: it had been deelded that such "collect" telegrams from private persons to Ministers should not be accepted. A Minister could send a "memo." to a private person or a member and authorise the recipient to reply by "memo." Mr. Hawkins : That's not the point. Mr. W. Fraser expressed the opinion that members ought to be satisfied with the privilege of being able to send thirtysix words for sixpence. They ought to be debarred from the privilege of sending "collect* telegrams to Ministers. The Premior said there were occasions on which suoh a restriction would bo unjust. Whatever might be said by Sir John, Hall and his Ministers, he declared that Ministers exercised the "memo" system to dommunioate with their wives and families before this Government came into office. After 1 all, what was there in it? Mr. Hawkins : We don't know. The Premier said it entailed no extra expense on the country. Mr. Hawkins : Overtime has to bo paid, Tho Premier went on to urge that telegraphing had to be done, and the occasion of the overtime was the business of tho country. Why should he not, if at Ohristohurch, use the wires to telephone to a member of his family at Grey mouth? He had, done it bcfoie, and he should do it again. Mr. Harding : And we intend to stop it. The Premier went on to declare that members used the privilege of bending 36 words for 6d to conduct their business. The necessity of increasing telephonic communication in the back-blocks was mentioned by Mr. T., Mackenzie^ and

he also wanted to know what steps the Government intended to take to test and develop deep-sea fishing off our coasts. The Premier, turning again to the memo system, said he had never transacted his private business by the "memo" system. As to "franking" telegramsi that privilege was enjoyed by several public officers, and yet it was sought ,to deprive -.Ministers of -that privilege. Previous Ministers, he had proof positive,, had communicated by the memo system with 'editors of the leading newspapers, ' -and , had been advised by them through -the same system, and ho saw nothing wrong with it. This assumed virtue was reprehensible ; there was nothing in it. The Leader of the Opposition eaid he was the first to make the charge that 'the Premier's Pahiatua speech had been forwarded as a Government "memo" to several Government newspapers, and now tho editor of the Lyttelton Times admitted that he had received the speech aB a "memo," and that it would, at press rates, have cost 23s or 245. He (Mr. Massey) had no doubt that this practice had been going on for years. The Minister for Public Works, in reply to Mr. T. Mackenzie, said the Postmaster-General -was. doing a great deal' towards providing telephone facilities in the back:WocKß/ . and did not insist on a guarantee where payment ,'d"t.it would be a hardship. In regard to deep-sea fishing, he^ did not think we ought to go.-further' afield in search of fishing grounds, seeing that there are such good grounds close to our coasts. Mr. Duthie, referring to the 'memo system, said the sending of speeches by memo was taking a most unfair advan•tage of th'edr position by Ministers. The system had been seriously abused both in regard to election and domestic matters, and it ought to be stopped. It would astonish even the strongest Government supporter if they knew the extent to which it was employed. Hedid not credit the Premier's statement with regard to former Ministers using the "memo" system to seek advice from editors of newspapers. He had known Mr. Bryce very well, and he believed the Premier had no warrant for his assertion. Serious inconvenience was caused to the mercantile community and the general public by the loading of the wires with "memos." "It's cost more to the country during the last few hours discussing this question of 'memos' than all the 'memos' that have been sent by all the Ministers for the last ten years," declared the Premier amid laughter. Mr. Seddon went on to complain of the manner in which Minister's speeches were reported, and remarked that the colony was making large concessions to the Press Association, bnfc unfoi-fciiii&telj-there was a partisanship which prevented justice being done to the Leader of the Opposition on the one hand and the Premier on the other. GENERAL MATTERS. Some discussion took place as to the advisability of allowing public servants to serve on local bodies. The oase of Lieut. M'Donald of 'the Defence Department, who is Mayor^of Lower Hutt and a member of the Education Board, was cited, and it was urged that he was given a freedom in this matter which was refused to other public servants. The Premier stated that members of the Defence Department had never been treated as Civil Servants. Mr Guinness (the Speaker), referring to the State coal mine, complained that the Government had declined to pay a single penny to the Greymouth Harbour Board either for rent, special rates on coal exported, from Greymouth, or wharfage. The opening of the State coal mine had been the cause of decreasing the output from some 1 private mines which would have paid the necessary rates. The Minister for Mines said the Greymouth harbour was really a Government harbour. Notwithstanding all that had been said about the State coal mine, it had been worked prudently and wisely, and it would be of advantage not only to the district, but to the whole colony. He believed that all the coal harbours should be the absolute property of the colony. Tho Premier added that the more charges that were put upon the- coal the more difficulty there would be in selling it »t a cheap rate to the public. _ Mr. Herdman made the point that undeT the State Coal-mines Act tho Government must not compete with private enterprise until tho requirements of the xailway3 had been filled. Last year, however, the State railways consumed more that the total output from tho mines, so that the action of the Government in competing in the open market was practically illegal. THE LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. GOVERNMENT MAJORITY— TWO. •Mr. nerdman then moved to Teduce th» itwn by £1 as an indioation that the present method of making appointmente to the Legislative Council is unsatisfactory. He quoted the Premier's own remarks on the Council in. eupport of his motion, and Temarked that appointments to the Council wefo made not beCauso of any particular aptitmde they had displayed in commerce or .politics, but becaueo of somo political service they had Tendered to wie present Administratiou. The Premier asked how could the present amendment help members to come to a conclusion on the subject, and 'he urged that it should bo withdrawn. A Bill dealing with -the question was on the Order Paper ior next day, in. the name o£ 6k Wm. Steward, and he thought tho House would carry that |ljjll. The altered conditions of the colony afford-ed reason for a chango of the system, .but any alteration should be ■brought about in the proper way, by means of a Bill. Also he suggested that the proposal mad© by 'Mr. Hordman was • trifling with a large question. Thk was not the proper time to deal with it. At this point, tho Chairman (Mr. Millar) ruled the debate out of order, as there 'is on tho Order Paper a Bill dealing with the subject. Debarred from discussing the constitution of the Council, members had to confine the-ir attention to tlw reduction of the vote ' by £1, and, probably from the consequent '•epTeesion of speech, they only refrained from carrying the prcrpo»ed raduction .by 26 votes to 24. The diviaion-lidt was as follows : — 'For the reduction (24) ; Messrs. Alison, Arnold, Barber, Bollard, Buchanan, Davey, Fowlda, W. Frascr, Guinness, •Hawting, Hawkins, Herdman, Berries, Kirkbrldc, Lang, 'Lewis, Mander, Mas»bv, T. Mackenzie, Reid, Rhodes, Sidoy, Vile, and Witty. Against tla> reduction (26) : Messra. E. G. Allen, Bennct, Buddo, Carroll, Colvin, Duncan, Ell, Field, Flatman, Hall, Ilatl- Jones, Heko, Houston,* Lawry,

M'Gowan, R. M'Kenzie, M'Lachlan, M'Nab, Mills, PeTe, Remington, Rutherford, Seddoii, Symes, Tanner, WiHord. Pairs : — For .the amendment : .Messrs. Jas. Alien, Letlfbridge, Duthie, Moss, Haidy. Against the amendment : Messrs. Ward, Kidd," Parata, "Willis, and Major. MORE GENERALITIES. The House- got a bit thinner after (/his, but for all that there was (and had been all through) a remarkably good attendance of members, and at 1.45 a.m. there were no less than thirty-four members (present. Tho average cumber at that hour is about fifteen. Tho subject of the State coal-mines was discussed, 'Mr. R. 'M'Kenzie, who had previously referred to the subject, denouncing sinecure WHete in connection with the mines, while Mr. Speaker informed the 'House that the miners at SeddonvilLe had refused to give evidence 'before the Commission of Enquiry mat has been set up. Tho debate collapsed at 1.50 a.m., and a few minutes later the House rose.