PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Evening Post, Volume IX, Issue 71, 6 May 1873, Page 2

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL.

Yestebua*. The Council met at 2.30 p,m. The minates of the last meeting were read and confirmed. Mr PEARCE presented a petition from Mr Walter Harris, mailman to Mungaroa, praying for compensation for haring to pay certain toils, Mr PEARCE said he was desired to draw the attention of the Speaker to the fact that in a petition presented by Mr Buckley, the signatures were manifestly in the same handwriting, * The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY laid on the table sundry papers and returns, Mr C, i'H.AKAZi'.\ asked whether it was the intention of the Government to introduce a bill to regulate the passenger traffic in vehicles, and to license all those engaged in carrying such passengers* fie considered that the licensing would remove much of the difficulties of the tolls. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said it was not the intention of the Government to introduce such a bill. The whole question of the carriage of the mails was involved in it, and would have to be considered. The. Council went into Committee to consider the Loan Bill.

•Some d:-ca3&Lou ensued ub to how the ] qupvUon gii'.ulri bo taken. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY sai-i the fj_aeatiyu before the Council to 5 ! the most important that had been brought down. The question WC3, is it wise to borrow money for reproductive works ? This question ha 4 he<3n --i^Pnitely n.n3\vereil and therefore the Provincial Government; bad decided it was desirable to construct certain public works to open up its land. Those workg, it was hopeless to think, conld be constructed out of current revenue, and the Government decided to ask the Council to borrow money. The province wanted roads to its land, feeders to its railways. It was hopelesa to think of making the province tit for settlement without; public works. Tiib times when settlers would come and hump their ( swags over rough lands or endanger their lives in crossing rivers, were passed. Though without the large revenues ot the South, Wellington was as rich in land fit for settlement and climate, as any province in the colony. There would be difficulty perhaps in parsuading the General Assembly as to the advisability of the scheme, bat he considered this could be done, good security including the land to be reclaimed could" be given for the loan, and he thought the interest would easily be met ou account of the improvement of property which tlae expenditure would cause. It was desirable that the proposal should go to the General Assembly endorsed by a considerable majority of the Council, in order to ensure its being passed. He then I proceeded to go through the schedule. With regard to the! bridges on • the West Coast the Council would know that the Government was in negociafciou for the purchase of a large district of native territory about Waikanae. Those negociatious there was every reason to bcJieve would be completed successfully. Unless the land were obtained no expenditure would be made, and if it were it was of such value as would be ample security for the money. The roads to Sandon from Foxton, Paikakariki to Manawatu, to Paraekaretu Block, would open np most valuable land for settlement. The proposed works at Wanganui River were very much required. The bridges in the Wairarapa, for which £14,501) was down, were urgently needed. The Wairarapa roads would open up good country worth £100,000. The works opening up country on both coasts would enable more money to be available for works. The next work was the reclamation of land, 39 acres 7 perches, front Pipitea Point to the breastwork from Mills' Foundry.' The Government believe this will be done for £55,000. A mortgage was on it for £25,000, on which the province was paying £1,500 a year. The pro* ject would enable the land to pay this. He had reason to believe the railway would be brought tip to near Mills' Foundry, and that the General Government would require about ten acres for railway purposes. This would pay the £25,000, and tne balance might bs considered worth £90,000, which would leave a credit balance of £60, 000. He then touched on the item of £8000 for the Asylum and £9000 for school houses, &c, £10,000 for .Hospital and surgeons residence. It was proposed to build the new Hospital on the site on the hill, while the old site would be available as a source of revenue. In reality the Hospital would not be an expense to the colony. He concluded by saying he would gladly give any farther information. The Government had only one desire, namely, to push the affairs of the province ahead, .and if the time came when they felt they could no longer do this they would not care to occupy their position. Mr LUDLAM asked in what mode the matter would be taken. He thought ample time should be given to the Council to consider the proposals. The PEOVINCIAL SECRETARY said the Government were anxious to give plenty of time for consideration,, but the schedule had been carefully thought over, and with all respect he desired to say the Government were not prepared to agree to any alteration in the schedule. Mr W. MILNE thought the question as to whether the bill was desirable might be Settled at once. After some further discussion as to what course should be pursued, when the tirst clanse of the motion was put, Mr HUTCHISON said he was opposed to the scheme as unjust. The Provincial Secretary had stood up objections for the purpose of knocking them down. He objected to the reckless borrowing that was going on year by year and session by session. The example to our young men thus shown was bad. It was easy to say "borrow to open up the cdfentry," but he believed a large number oir the settlers were opposed to it. The General Government had. gone into public works and the Wellington railway had been commenced. It would be as well to see the result of that trial before going in for large borrowing on our own account. He would move that "the chairman do leave the chair." Mr R. PHARAZYN said the last speaker had taken a birdseye, or balloon view of the question, that it was exceedingly difficult to combat. His general objection to borrowing for public works was one that did not appear to have any foundation. He (Mr Pharazyn) looked in vain ior the disastrous effect upon the characters of nations borrowing. Individually he could not see the ill-effects either. The cry of " reckless borrowing" was met by the reply that a large portion of the expenditure would be recouped by the sale of land. He supported the principle involved in the proposal, while the schedule appeared to have been most carefully considered. Mr W. MILNE said a false issue had been raised. It was not a fact that no country had come' to grief by borrowing. The revolution in France had been caused by constant borrowing. By continuing the system of borrowing they were laying up a heritage of shame for their children. He thought that perhaps a Government might be right to borrow to help it to tide over a period of depression. The PROVINCIAL SOLICITOR supported the principle Of borrowing for public works to "make" the country for those who came after. Mr LUDLAM, though he bad been opposed to borrowing, looked favorably upon the proposition of the Government. In it the matter was put in a new light, Formerly borrowing had resulted in an incubus on the ordinary revenue of the province, while in the proposal before the Council ample security for the re-payment ef the money was shown. There were items in the schedule with which he did not agree, still he was prepared to support the resolution, which proclaimed the principle of borrowing for public works. Mr WATT said he was prepared, when they came to the schedule, to show that the district represented by Mr Hutcheson would be largely benefitted by the pro* posed expenditure. Mr HUTCHESON, in reply, said he did not say he was opposed to borrowing, but to borrowing as proposed by the Government. What did the Council know of the items in the schedule ? For all purposes, they might* as well be turned upside down. Who knew what the roads would cost, or where they were to be made ? He would

not object to borrowing, fur instance, £25,000 for road boards. Mr BEBTHAM generally supported the bill. Mr C. PHARAZYX said the question before the Council was rather an abstract one. Xo one doubted a3 to what answer to give to the question, " shall we borrow for reproductive works." The next question was were the works reproductive. He had heard little argument on the question as to whether it was as well to make rends to open np country. There was a da^c^r in not borrowing enough; and in only goin^ half way. At a future period of the debate he might perhaps propose that the amount be increas 1 - 4. H e argued that public works, un'e' 1 ! carefully managed, would result in an increase in the price of labor that -would seriously interfere with the ordinary industries of the province. Before supporting the scheme proposed he should wish to haveit clearly shown that this difficulty would be thoroughly met. It would be as well that a sum should be put on the estimatps i for the purpose of bringing out immigrants. He had regretted to hear the Provincial | Secretary say that the schedule wag not to be altered It was telling the representatives of the people that they did uot know what was required by their constituents. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY said one great fault of the public works scheme brought down by the Fox-Vogel Ministry waß, that they put a schedule before the House, but said, "if you dou't like it make one for yourselves." The result was a schedule that every one was sorry to ace passed. No Government was worthy the name that could not make and stand by a scheme without fear of pressure or loss of votes. He said it in all respect the scheme before the Council was that of the Governtnent, but if it were altered by the Council it would not remain the Government scheme. With regard to the labor question it was useless Wellington trying to do as wealthy Middle Island Provinces were doing, and appropriate large yearly sums for immigration. He would be prepared to put before the Executive a proposal to increase the loan to £250,000, and devote • the £40,000 to immigration. Mr C. PHARAZYN was glad to hear what the Provincial Secretary said about immigration. He was sorry to hear that no alteration in the schedule would be allowed. Mr CARTER, said the labor question largely entered into the resolution, before the Council, and was one interesting to a large number of settlers. It was unfair for some to endeavour to grind down the rate of wages. He saw the propriety of endeavouring to introduce immigrants into the Province under tire circumstances that would enable them to earn fair wages. There was only one objection that lie saw to the scheme. There did not appear to be sufficient data before the Council to satisfy it that the works named in thn schedule could be made for the amounts named. At this point the hour for adjournment arrived. On resuming, the Prders of the Day were gone on with. On the motion of the PROVINCIAL SECRETARY the Highways Act Amendment Bill was read a second time, and re« mitted to the Select Committee on the Highways Act. The Council went into Committee on t"he Toll-gates Act Amendment Bill. Mr CARTER suggested that the schedule should be altered so as to read " for every four-wheeled vehicle, without springs, to. carry four tons, 10s, and for every additional ton 55." - „ ~ This amendment was withdrawn on the Provincial Secretary pointing out that there would be a difficulty as to obtaining weigh-bridges. The Bill aa amended at the previous sitting was passed, and reported to the Speaker. The Council went into Committee to resume the consideration of the Loan Bill. Mr CARTER expressed his disapproval of pet immigration Bchemes and special settlements. He then proceeded to combat various arguments that had been advanced against the Bill. Mr DALRYMPLE said a few words in favor of the Scandinavians as settlers. Mr WRIGHT supported the Bill with every confidence that the Government would put it into operation with good results, judging from what had been done by them already. Mr BUCKLEY said he had been returned to the Council as a supporter of the policy of progress, and therefore, he .supported the Bill before the Council. He did so also because he believed that the present Government would carry out the policy properly. The works were necessary, and there being no possibility of constructing them out of revenue, the straightforward way was to borrow for the purpose. He proceeded to combat the arguments as to the rashness of the scheme, and showed that instead of burdening, we should be benefiting prosperity by adopting the course pnrsued. He pointed out that of the £210,000, £54,741 for West Coast roads would not be required till the Government obtain possession of the native lands in the district. £55, 000 for reclaimed land would also not be wanted immediately. Thus only about £100,000 would be now wanted. The security for loan would be ample. Mr BRANDON replied to some reflections which he considered some speakers had inferentially cast on Dr Featherston. Mr Hutcheson's amendment * ' that the Chairman do leave the chair,'' was negatived on the voices, and the first clause was passed. On the motion that progress be reported, with leave to sit again on Wednesday, Mr LUDLAM said the Council might, before passing the schedule of the bill, wish to know what was to be done with the revenue of the province. Mr C. PHARAZYN took the same view. The PROVINCIAL SECRETARY declined to go into the question of the esti« mate 3 till the Council had decided as f<o the bill before it. He explained that the estimated revenue was £85,000, and the expenditure the same. The survey and engineers departments alone would cost £18,000. The motion to report progress Was car* ried, and the Council adjourned.