THE ESTIMATES.

Dunstan Times, Issue 2096, 24 September 1901, Page 6

THE ESTIMATES.

RETURNED TROOPERS

MR-J. ALLEN AND THE PREMIER

[From the Evening Star's CoBr.EsroNDENT.]

WELLINGTON, September 13. At the close of the Financial Debate, the House went into Committee-of-Supply. On the first item of the Estimates" Mr Jas. Allen said he had a statement to make which he would have made in his speech on the Financial Debate, but the Premier was absent, and he wished to make the statement to the Premier's face. He said the Premier had ordered the Taarus to go from Albany to Dunedin, and the men to 'lnvercargill, against the advice of the medical officer that the men should not be brought to New Zealand by the cold route. The condition of the men made the journey by trie cold route dangerous, but the Premier, because, for political reasons, he would not offend the people of Invercargill, gave instructions that the contingents must go there, and lie must take the responsibility. Since the arrival of the contingents several men had died, and he asked who was responsible for that. Mr Seddon explained that the Admiralty had decided that the Tagus should not go to the Bluff Harbor on account of the alleged dancer.. Every man who had crone to Invercargill had done so with the sane tion of the dnctor and officer commanding. Had the medical man said one word about il being unwise to go to Invercargill, he (the Premier) would have been the last man to say they should go. Sir J. 0. Ward characterised Mr Allen's statement, as one of the most outrageous he had ever heard in the House. The Premier did not want to disappoint the people of Invercargill after the great preparations they had made to receive the contingents: but.not one of the men had landed without a certificate that he was fit to land. Dad there been anv foundation for Mr Allen's charge it would have been heard of before. He had practically charged the Premier w'th bein" responsible for the deaths of four or five men.

Mr Seddon then read correspondence from the A<re"t-General showing that the Admiraltv declined to oennrt the Tasrus to (TO to the Bluff, as that port was not safe There was a desire that Hie contingents should be sent to the Southern port, and he had therefore Consented to their being sent there from Dunedin. Mr J. Allen read extracts from 'Hansard ' showing that he had repeatedly referred to the question connected with the use of the contingents for political purposes, which he intended to make, but would not make until the Preimer was present. Mr Allen said a telegram had been received from the medical officer at Albany advising that the trooners should not go to New Zealand by a cold route.

Mr Seddon said no such message line been received.

Mr Allen asked for a fair inquiry into the whole matter. Mr Seddon said the member for Bruce founded a charge of the. gravest possible kind on a. telegram he had never seen, and asked for a fair inquiry into a matter standing upon such a foundation. He (Mr Seddon) denied that he had. ever sought to make political capital out of the contingents, and claimed he had tried to do the best for the colony and the troopers themselves. Mr Massev suggested that a committee of inquiry be set up to inquire into the matter and report to Parliament. Mr M'Nab, referring io the troopers who had died, said ho did not think there was one instance In which there was any reason for supposing that the result would have been any different if the men had landed in the North.

Messrs Garncross, Barclay, and Hauan strongly deprecated a charge of such a serious nature being made on hearsay evidence. Mr A. L. I). Fraser referred to the Premier's kindness to returned troopers, and advised Mr Allen to withdraw his statement.

After further discussion, Mr Seddon said Mr Allen dare not say outside the House what he had said inside . Mr Allen said ho claimed a thorough inquiry, and if he was proved to be wrong he would apologise to the House tind the Premier.

Sir J. Ci. Ward pointed out that the weather was cold all over the colony when the Tflgus men returned, and even if they hud landed at Wellington the same, kind of weather would have been experienced. After further discussion, Mr Seddon read a cable from Lieutenant-colonel Davies, in which he said:—" Dr Thomson, P.M.0., officially notifies mo very unwise expose troops been through Beira. cold voyage to Bluff, also on account of sickness on board at present. Strongly recommend port of arrival should bo changed." That was the only communication he had received. The ■ship did not go to the Bluff. She went to Port Chalmers. Mr Massey : That bears out every word Mr Allen said.

Mr Seddou went, on lo say that at that time there was only a difference of eight degrees between Dunedin and Wellington. Dr De Lautour reported to him that the pneumonia was caused by overcrowding. He had, he declared, never heard any complaint in regard to this matter except from Mr Allen. , , 41 . After the Telegraph Office closed this morning the d : scussion upon the statement made by Mr das. Allen in regard to the 'lV'iis troopers was continued. During' Mr Allen read from his " Harsard proof to show what he had stated at first as to <be Premier's responsibility for (he sacrifice of the lives of some of the men who came bv the Tagus. —Mr Seddon moved that the words be taken down, remarking that he wanted to give Mr Alien an opportunity of withdrawing them. —Mr Allen handed* his 'Hansard' proof to the Acting-Chairman (Major Steward), and after n, long discussion tho Committee adjourned in order to enable the parties interested to come to an understanding as to what the Premier objected to, and what Mr Allen was prepared to modify. Upon resuming the Premier withdrew his motion. Mr Allen said he would withdraw the following portion of his speech :-" Since that ship (the Tagus) left Albany five or sis of these men had died. Who had to take the responsibility'.' The Premier was afraid to offend the people of invercargill, even though to please them ho had to sacrifice the lives of men who had been serving their country. The hon. gentleman had taken the responsibility of the lives of thes 1 men upon his own shoulders. Who had to take the responsibility of all the sickness and the breakdown in health of all these men by sending them by a cold route?" He would modify another phrase to this: "He. (Mr Seddon) would have to answer to the Mouse and the country for declining to accept tho advice given by the doctor"; and would withdraw cite statement that "these men bad been sacrificed to political exigencies." At 3 .1.111. tlie motion to report' progress was Jo-i, and the Committee proceeded to discuss the lirsl item of the Estimates. Mr Monk said thai fives had been lost bv taking young people to the. Chmtchurcb review at "tho time of the Duke of York's visit. He did not blame the Premier, but he thought it. indiscreet and unneces-

sary to assemble cadets at that review. Mr Hornsby and Mr J. Hutcheson objected thnt details were not given of the Legislative Council vote. Mr Hornsby complained that one of the Legislative Council officials was owner of a large sheep station, and that in this democratic community we were " greasing the fat sow always." He moved to reduce the item by £7O in reduction of the .salary of the clerk drawing £250 a year, and as an indication that reform was necessary in this direction. —After considerable discussion the mo I ion was negatived, at 5.15 a.m., by 25 to 5.

Shortly before seven o'clock the motion by Mr Pirani to reduce the first item by £SO was negatived by 30 to 4. Mr Seddon intimated that if the progress of the Estimates was obstructed by such tactics he should have to move to report the position of affairs to the Speaker.—The Chairman said there was no power in the Standing Orders to report the conduct of the whole committee. —Mr Seddon promised that all information would be supplied in due course on every department of the Estimates.

Eventually, after a long discussion, the first item on the Estimates —a vote of £1,870 for the Legislative Council—was agreed to on the voices without alteration. Mr Seddon then moved to report progress, which was agreed to. The House rose at 7.40 a.m.