THE HON. J. N. WILSON AT THE WORKING MEN'S CLUB.

Daily Telegraph (Napier), Issue 3705, 31 May 1883, Page 2

THE HON. J. N. WILSON AT THE WORKING MEN'S CLUB.

The Hon. J. N. Wilson delivered a lecturo at the Working Men's Club hall last ca'cu-ing-'on "The Land. Laws of New Zealand." Mr J. Murray, President of tho Club, occupied the chair, and there was a largo attendance of members and friends present.

In the course of his introductory remarks the Chairman said the question that Avas to be dealt Avith to-night was one of great importance, and should possess an interest for OA'crybody, Avhether farmer or Avorkiug man. The rules of the club prohibited the introduction of political questions, and ho might therefore explain that the subject to-night Avas the nationalisation of the land, and was outside of party polities altogether. At the conclusion of the lecture, if any one wished to ask questions, Mr Wilson had kindly agreed to answer them.

Mr AA r ilson commencod by saying that he agreed Avith the chairman that one of the most important questions of the day Avas that on which he purposed addressing the present meeting. It must be admitted, however, that the subject Avas rather a " dry " one, but he would endeavour not to bo Avearisome. Of course, if he treated the question in anything like an exhaustive manner, or even did it full justice, he feared the patience of his hearers would be overtaxed. It Avould be necessary, therefore, to keep strictly within certain limits. But before going into the subject as it appeared to us at tho present day, ho must ask permission to consider first of all the causes that led up to this "burning question" being forced upon the present generation. The cause of all the mischief began with the Norman conquest, when the feudal principles Avere introduced. Hitherto there had been very little evidence of the tenure of laud. He Avould next refer them to tho days of King- Alfred, at -which time, so far as could bo gathered from authentic rocords, education Avas greatly sought after, learning prevailed, there Avas a largo amount of personal liberty, and apparently the country Avas making rapid strides. The greatest hindrance avrs the great amount of sclf-goA'crnment and the number of assemblies. AVell, the Conquoror camo, and at ono stroke sweptallthis system aAvay, aud introduced the feudal system. A great revolution Avas effected, and the Avhole of the country Avas reduced to subjection. All lands were then thooretieally held by the CroAvn, but Avere granted to vassals for services, and upon these A-assals tho people Avere entirely dependent. This state of affairs lasted for years, during Avhich period a true system of slavery flourished. People uoav-a-days took a pride in talking of the freedom of former days, and spoke of Magna Charta as one of the great foundations of liberty, but really the' people Avere v«ry little concerned in'it. It Avas nothing more nor less than the protest of the nobles against the arbitrary conduct of tho sovereign, Avhose power Avas merely lessened in order to increase that of tho barons. Nor Avas any appreciable alteration effected until many yoars afterwards. Anyone avlio had road the history of those times knew that, although there Avero many struggles, and the people had moro than once dispossessed the s -vereign, it was only in comparatively modern days that the people derived any direct benefit. One of the results of foudalism—a result Avhich bore its fruits even in the present day—Avas the laws of primogeniture aud entail. Before the Norman rule the land Avas held on different tenures, but generally it Avas divided botAveen the sons of tho family. Primogeniture provided for tho succession of the eldest son only, and the law of entail enabled large estates to be so tied up that they could not be interfered Avith. It Avas estimated that half the land in England Avas so tied up that they could not be interfered Avith. Those hiAvs Avero the cause of the aggregation of A-ast estates in the hands of a few proprietors, and this Avas the cause of great evils. Curiously enough, though the law of entail avas last year abolished iv England, it still existed in New Zealand, showing that in this country avo were not very rapid reformers at any rate. AVhen Aye came to New Zealand avo imported those old hiAvs, despite tho experience of their Avorking. It Avas true that thcro avmb then plenty of Avaste land to be purchased, but too groat facilities for acquiring that land in largo block Avere given, and bad administration of tho laws increased the mischief. It was computed that 10,000 people (he would not be sure as to exact figures), owned Great Britain, and Ncav Zealand was moving in the same directiou, though it had not been settled forty years. He regarded this as a very grave mistake, and thought they might have been able to strike out a lieAA-cr and hotter path hero than to have stuck to the old lines that Avero unsuccessful elseAvhere. In the profession that ho belonged to it Avas admitted that tho aggregation of lands in the hands of private people Avas not a good thing for the country. The question then arose, lioav was the evil to be remedied ? Unfortunately history did not afford much encouragement. The first country where any freedom for tho popple existed was the Greek Republic, but oven there slavery was carried on, and after many intestine struggles the Republic gradually became corrupted until despotisms Avere created. Rome advanced so long as she remained a Republic, but Avhen an Emperor reigned tho liberties of the people Avere gone. Tho feudal system prevailed to a much greater extent in France, for there the nobles were free from taxation, and ground the peasants down beyond endurance. The result of this was that the peoplo '-'got the bit iv their tooth," aud confiscated'nearly tho whole of the soilof France, and tho proprietors, having as thoy thought espoused the cause of the sovereign and his legitimate successors, Avero looked upon as enemies to the country and banished. Thcro Avas also one modern example, but, curiously enough, very little authentic information "bout it .could b,o "leaned. Japan Avas until a feAV years ago conducted ou tho most complete feudal system cA-cr knoAvn. There Avas an Emperor, and under him about fifty feudal proprietors rocehing large revenues from the land—revenues paid in rice, but which, calculated in our currency, Avere equal to j £80,000 aycar doAVinvards. That Avas all abolished. How it Avas done was not known, but it ay as done. There was a total revolution, the land passed from the nobles, it was nationalised, and the people leased it from the Government. It Avas a pity more details of lioav that revolution Avas accomplished Avero not available. This brought him to that point Avhcro it must bo 'enquired";.'hat are the remedies at our disposalin this country ? He woulq. answer by giving the opinions of a few of theleadingpoliticalecohomistsofthccehtury, and siqmlementing them by somo remarks of his oavu. The first great author Avho dealt Avith the quostiori of land nationalisation Avas John Stuart Mill. Mill admitted the evil of the aggregation of property, but thought that the remedy proposed — the nationalisation of tho laud—avus impracticable, because any system of administering the lands by the State Avould result in greater abuses even than those which' existed. Henry George was a more modern writer, and one of a different stamp—ho was one of tho most daring innovators ever knoAvn. He simply proposed to vest all the land in tho State, and to take it from the owners without any compensation .whatever*" To

doubt tho power of Mr George as a writer Avas impossible, although as a matter of course his book had been very smartly criticised aud revioAVod. He (the speaker) did not agreo Avith Mr George, neither V did he agree with those avlio said that MiGeorge's book Avas impracticable and absurd, and Avho fancied they could by adverse remarks of this kind silence him. It must be admitted, however, that Mr George's vieAvs Avero very extreme. Macauley remarked iv one of his Avorks that if an admission of the principle of gravitation interfered Avith large pecuniary interests, there would not be wanting admirable arguments against gravitation. Mr Geerge argued that there would be no injustice to the proprietors—that they would only be deprived of what they ncA-er should have had. The plan Avas extreme, no doubt, but it Avas adopted in France, and, short of the brutal way in AA'hich it Avas done, it Avas for the benefit of that country. George says iv his book, " I look Avith horror upon idle

people." Everybody, ho argues, comes into the Avorld with' the right to possess a piece of land. These Avere not, however, Ids

(Mr Wilson's) principles. Mr AVallaoewas another writer, equally strong in his advocacy of tho nationalisation of the land, but ho Avould give compensation to tho owners. Mr Wallace argued that it would be cruel to deprive of their moans of existence a largo number of people who had not learned to earn their living. The State should take the land, but should have it valued, and for tho present generation and two afterwards the State should pay rent to the owners, who should then be considered to bo paid iv full. By that time there Avould be no hardship, as, knowing what was before thorn, tho lato owners could prepare to earn their living. Now, he (the lecturer) was not prepared to wait for tAVO generations [laughter], and would prefer to see something done Avithin his oavu time. [Hear, hear.] _ Other Avritcrs thought that the aggregation of lar»_ estates could be prevented by a land fr ix? He did not mean an ordinary land tax, but a graduated land tax, rising in proportion to the property held. That seemed to his mind a moderate enough view to take. Of course, at tho first glance it mighc seem that a tax such as that he had just mentioned Avould fall too heavily on the man Hvho improved his property. That looked like a hardship [hear, hear], but the difficulty mignt be overcome easily enough. There Avas no doubt but that the aggregation of largo estates interfered with tht? independence of Avhat Avero termed "the lower classes," and helped to keep them in somo kind of subjection. A man OAvning £100,000 might spend the interest, or even the principal, as he pleased, Avithout injuring others, but the owner of a large estato possessed a power outside that of mere Avealth. He could determine how many or hoAV few people should be allowed to sottlo on tho land he oAvncd, and so held a material power over others, Avhich he nuVht nso to the detriment of the State. lie Avould not refer to Avhat had been done iv tho North Island, because that might bo held to bo trenching upon politics, but he might say that in the South Island a foAV companies had been accumulating vast estates, Avhich thoy Avere holding for higher prices, and in the meantime a man could ride for thirty miles or more at a stretch, and see only a few sheep, ancl hero and thcro a shepherd's hut. His views Avere that no person should have to be dependent upon another, and he further believed that, so long as the aggregation of large holdings continued, the rich Avould become richer and tho poor poorer. It Avas much to be regretted that Aye should have brought to Ncav 'Zealand with us a complicated system like that avc now possess, and the people Avould bo very much to blame if thoy did not take some steps to rid themselves of it. Referring to tho difficulties which the advocates of the Reform Bill of 1830 and the slave trade abolitionists had to meet, Mr Wilson pointed out that those difficuties Avere in many respects similar to the difficulties that noAV stood in the Avay of the nationalisation of tho land. The lecturer concluded by urging-that it Avas the duty of everyone avlio held the views he had cxy pressed on this subject to make full use of them. He deprecated companies as Avell as private individuals holding large tracts of laud, as it not only retarded settlement, but helped to cultivate and perpetuate tho system of superiority that everyone ought to oppose. [Applause]. Mr R. AVilliams moved a hearty vote of thanks to tho lecturer, Avhich a. as seconded by Mr P. Bear and carried unanimously. The Chairman intimated that thcro would bo a short adjournment, after Avhich discussion Avas invited. Ho expressed the pleasure Avith which he had listoned to Mr Wilson, and rcmark&d that the members of the .Club should feel proud Avhen gentlemen in the position of Mr AVilsou camo among them and proposed to discuss with thorn questions of so much importance. After the adjournment a debate on the main question took place, when, amongst others, Mr Cotnford and Sir G. AVhitmorc expressed themselves as opposed to tho viows held by Mr AVilsou. Replying to a question, Mr Wilson said he Avas not in favor of perpetual leases, and added that his views Avore iv accordance with those of Mr AVallace, in so far that he regarded the interests of the State as predomiuent, and tho accumulation of large estates as prejudicial to the interest of tho State.

Mr AY. H. Warren referred to the position of tho deferred-payment settlers, and argued that the roliof supposed to be afforded by recent legislation was fallacious, and of no real value.

Mr John Begg remarked that the present discussion shewed tho desirableness of

altering the Club rules of debate so far as regarded politics ancl churches. (Applause.) }~- It Avas agreed that the discussion should / lie continued another evening, and tho meeting adjourned.