SUNDAY RAILWAY TRAFFIC. DEPUTATION TO THE HON. MR. VOGEL FROM THE AUCKLAND SUNDAY-SCHOOL UNION.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XXX, Issue 5157, 2 March 1874, Page 3

SUNDAY RAILWAY TRAFFIC. DEPUTATION TO THE HON. MR. VOGEL FROM THE AUCKLAND SUNDAY-SCHOOL UNI ON.

A DEi'r ruiov. consisting of the van. Archd< aeon Maunsell, tl.c Rev. C. M. ' NeUon, the llev 1!. F. Macnicol, the Rev. ' W. C. Olivei, and Mr. J. (J. Firth (Presidonfc of the Sunday school Union), waited upon the lion. Mr. Vogel on Saturday morning at ha'f-past 10 o'clock, to ascertain j the intention of the Government in reference to Sunday railway traffic ia the province '• The deputation having be«m introduced, I Mr. J» V. Fiuni said : We have boen appointed a deputation to wait upon you and ascertain the intention of the Govern1 ment regarding the running of Sunday trains after the railway line to Onehunga is handed over to the Government, which we understand it will bo on the 1st April next. I may state at once, in order to saro time, that tho suggestion we wish to make is that j the Government should only allow a train to ' run each way in the m- inm(j and one each way in tho evening on Sundays. We find now that the contractors are running .is many trains on Sun lays as on week days, and occasionaUy they run excursion train* on Sundays, and carry rery many more p-fseng^rs than on week days. Wo ask tho Government to consider the suggestion we make, because we think it a fair compromise, that it will meet the real wants of all parties, aud because it is the practice adopted in New South Wales. Tho ll'iv. Mr Nkisov: Mr. Vogel will bear in mind that wo h'.ve already waited, as a dcputitiou, upon tho Hon. Dr. Pollen, from whom we learne<* that at p r esont the tunning of trains is entirely m the hands of Messrs. Krogden and Co., and that any action must of course be taken sub equent to the period when the line is placed in the hands of tho Government. Many of us, though not what might be lormed rigid Sabbatarians, are a httlo disti cased to tbiuk that when the line was first op ned the number of trains runmug on Sundays should bo half as miny again as on we*k days, aud likewise that each train thouldbean excursion train, in.'smuch rs only single fare was charged for the journey to Ouchunga and back. Now some \ of us, mini3terH and others, who ctre for the j observance of the Lord s Day, think j that it is offering almost a premium I for people to disrtgaid it; and wo do not think that it is to the advantage of a young au.i growing country that ton loose viewd should be adopted with respect to the observance of onr day in seven aa a day to bo devoted to religious purposes Therefore, we vrouM urge upon the Goverumeat to take a fair view of the matter, aud when they take the line iuto tlmr own bands to hunt the number of trains running or Sundays, and as much as possib'e to discourage tho practice of making the Sunday traias oxcursion trams. We think that by so doing wo are uot asking anything very but what m reality tends to the benefit of the people. Mr. Voi.ki, : I undorstand that you wish to elicit the \iews of the Government upon the course that will bo taken after tho railways oomo mto tho hands of the Government ? Tho Rev. Mr. M vi Mtu : Yes ; we would j like to do so. 1 Mr. Voukl : I may say generally that the ! matter is one which more immediately beI longs to the Public Works Depaitmeut, on j which tho charge of the railways willdevolve, and I have foi tided myself by speaking to tho 1 Hon. Mr Richardson upon the subject. I have j no objectinu to state my own views which j I behove, are shared in more or less by tho i other members of the Government. I had j occasion to deal with a somewhat analagous 1 matter not very long ago. I found that I there was gradually growing up a system of 1 Sunday working at the Post O'fice, which, ■ commencing to some extent in a voluntary system, became voiy hard upon the Post •Ofhco olUculs, aud I stopped it entirely, or propose to do so. Regulations >cro made '«hat when the English mail ai lived — of course people will not wait long for their Unghsh letters -that officers should go very early on Monday morning instead of working on Sunday. Bit it -was represented to me afterwards that the Post OHioo othcials muah preferred doing the work on Sunday instead of attending early on MoiuUy. Xor/, wo are living m a free country, wheie men are at liberty to do as they like hg long as they do not offend their neighbours, and I situnly in ado this provision : That those officers who proforred to'doj tuo^work on Sunday might do so, but that speciiil pay would bo attached to it, and that any officer would be heo to decline to woru on Sunday. With respect to tho management of railways the gre.it argument which 1 believe ia used is, that men aie fecod to woik on the Sabbath. I would go a veiy long way ia agreeing with you that if tho deputation ltade it a condition of the cervice that mcu must work on Sunday and {efus-d to employ those whoso sciup'es would uot allow them to do bo, it would bo very hard But I mule: stand that you piopo.se a compromise In fict you do not propose to «t->p lailway traffic on Sundays, and it is cow merely a question of degree. As to feeling the advantage of Sunday no one can do so more than 1 do. Xo one who loads au active business life and who knows w li.it & strain it is upon the powor« of any one to work six days in tbo week but tnuat foal that, simply as a human ordiu&uce, Sunday is one of tho greatest blessmgs tliat could possibly be. It is a pity that to Bocio extent Sunday is made distasteful to young childreu, aud that they do not come to know how gieat a blessing it is until they advance mt ) middle life a -id work j hard, when they cease to look upon Sunday as a day of psnanco, but glow j to regard it at the day on which they hive tho gieatest right to be grattfu'. For my*elf, I bavo no sympathy with what I understood took place a few days a_,o wl.eu a child wan convicted criminally for playing cnckcton Sunday not far from nd I do not know whether that is the case but I have heard so. You must lecollcet m dealing with this question that the lailways *r« the property of tho Stato aud that this ■' is rssiiitully a popular Government — I Mr, (■ Futh is aware of that— m which J tho will of the people is supiemn— it may not find expression in public meetings or immediately, but sooner or later, thiougli the recognised mac'iineiy of Government. Tho will of the pecplo really forms the b^sis of the law aud government of tho colony. I believe that even if a Government were in office that tonk tho extrems view of stopping railway tiavellni£ tliafc that view would be so little in accordance) wi'h the wishes of I tho groit mass of tho people that it would bo impossible for the Government to maintain it Now I think, on the oth< r hand, that it is quite leasonable to look to the Government to hold, as it were, tho scales and whilst not flying in tho fiioo of one, and the more numerous section of tho people, to endeavour to avoid offending and flying in tho faco of the strong convictions of another, perhaps, less numerous, but not less worthy of consideration. Generally tho viows of tho Government arc these : That it would not be possiblo nor expedient to prevent those who desire- to travel by railway on Sunday from ' doing so ; but wo think it 13 not desnablo to offer any special inducement or toiun excursion trains for tho put pose of encom aging 3unday traffic; nor to offer in Uicement i'i tho shape of exceptional rates of fares. Wo

aUo thiuk it would not !>e right tl.iit railway t-ivol'in™ "-hoiiM b n <* urcl nn \<\ a rr.vinor whioh would ba liable, \>y the livfiio it would occasion, to hurt tho fee' ings of those who desire to treat Sunday strictly as a day ( set apart for religious observances. Generally, Uio views of the Government may Vie ; gathered from the regulations which are ! at present in foico m Canterbury. ' Of course I do not nay lhat we will adopt exactly tho same practice because the traffic will vary in different places, but you will see by those regulations that the Government desire rather to lessen than increase railway traffic on Sunday?. Tho Canterbury railways run in this wise: One tiaiu leaves beforecburch hour", and three trains between half-past ont and six o'clock. That is four trains in the day, or one traiu Ies3 tlnn the ordinary number running in the winter months, and two k«3 than tho ordinary number running in the summer month'. Though I cannot say that we shall adopt tho same scale in AuckUnd, as we are not aware what the demand will be, you may gather from what I have said that it will bo our desire not to encourage railway traffic on Sun lay, but merely allow it to the extent that will meet tho needs of tho people. It is only right that *ve shouUl recollect that the railways are the property of tho State, and aro paid for by the people ; that wealthy people do not subscribe more lo the revenue of tho country than the poorest people ; that those who use trains on Sundays are people who, as a rule, have not fine houses, gardens, servant?, horses, and carriages of their own, to assist in making their day at home one of unmixed enjoyment, »nd that they like to go out- in tho railways perhaps to take a walk on the sea-»hore or amongst the trees and woods. As far ai my own individual opinion is concerned it appears to me that so long as Sunday is devoted to * purpose of the kind, it is ono to which it >s impossible to take exception. I do not see that it can be at all desirable to prevent people who have been confined in doors during the whole of the week from going forth amongst the trees aud by the sea shore to "look through Nature up to Nature's God." After all they may have a deeper reverence and * deeper dasire to observe the Sabbath in those holiday enjoyments which they take, than if thoy were confined all day aud made the Sunday a day of dUtasteful observance. However, that is a matter npon which evei*y one holds his own specific opinion. At the same time, it must be clearly understood that the colony is not governed for the benefit of the rich, but on th« basis that the people are on a level of equality. That Sunday travelling is not altogether objectionable to tho3o who hold th» highest religious position in the colony I may gather from one httlo fact which comes within my knowledge. 1 observe th it the IJishop of Auckland is not hero to-day, aud probably Dr. Maunsell will know whethf-r or not he shares in those objections to Sunday travelling. My own impression is that ho does not. At any rate, it is a fact that tho ruinate of Now Zealand, Biahop Harper, uaed the firat Sunday tr an that ran between Lyttelton and Uhratchurch : aud it is a remarkable fact also, that Bisk p Neville, of Duucdin, was the first person to take a ticket for a Sunday train running between Dunedin and Port Chalmers. So that we nriy appeal to very high clorical authority us an excuse for running Sunday trains. Therefore, whilst I am not able to give you any assurance respecting two single trains a day, it may bo some satisfaction to you to kuow that the Government do not piopose to use trains for tho purpose of encouraging -Sunday traffic by a reduction of fares or by excursion trains, but will rather be disposed t« limit the use of railways on tho Sabbat'i to the extent that tho peoplo absolutely demand Mr. FifU'ii : With regard ti your observations as to the importance of people who aie cooped up in town, hard at work all the week, having the opportunity of going to the seashore and walking in the woods ou Sunday, I nny perhaps bo permitted to point out that there are conveniences in tho i.cghbourhood of the city. I may instance the Domain, which affords a far better opportunity for peoplo seeing the beauties of nature and walking amongst the trees than can be obtained at Ouehunga or Otalmhu. Mr. Vocjil: People, Mr. Firth, will not look at things from your eyes. Perhaps they may be tired of the Domain, and also of the North Shore, and would prefer going to Onehunga. They will not be good on the precauous suggestions of third persons. People mis,'ht visit the Domain, or even the most beautiful spot, ofcen enough to mike them desire to witness other scenes. Mr. Fiuiii : In that case they cannot suffer veiy great inconvenience shut up ia the city all day, if they aio unable to appreciate a spot like tho Domain. I only referred to it as an instance fiat those amusements and scenes of enjoyment are much nearer home, .and can be resorted to without tho assist.ance of a railway. Although this is a free country, aud we are, of course very proud that it'i«, still wo have yet to learu that the Government should set the example and should oiler facilities, which have uot been asked for, as far at I am awaie, fora large amount of Sunday travelling. I tiuoto fro.n the time table published by the authority in whose bauds the railway now is, and 1 find that tLe same number of tiams are now running on a Sunday as on a week day. 1 uudeistand, fiom Mr. Nelson, that at tho commencement a much larger number -wore miming. I do not think that tho Government will be at all desirous of needlessly offending tho larger portion of tho lnhabituits of tho country, who are not wishful either to woik on the babbath d ly themselves or to insist ou others doing so, m order that their amusement aud recreation might bo provided. I rithcr dissent from your view that a niajouty of the inhabitants of this cuuutiy would piefer to have Sunday travelii'ii/. 1 am of opinion that a larger majority would prefer a* anyrate that only reasonable facilities should be afforded to the puUio for travelling on Sunday. The people who make the sucgestion to the Government do s« from good motives, and not in order that their own amusement or enjoyment may be sacred. With regard te carnagoa and h»rses, I apprehend there are quite as many of those who wish to ride about on Sunday who have carriages and fina horsei, as of those who do not. MY. Vooel : Yes, and they do so Mr. ['nth ; thoy do not come aud ask any one's permission. Of couise every one is at liberty to hold his own opinion. Take the case of an employer of labour and an employee. The employer can go to Onehunga any day in the j week that ho likes, and, when the rail nay is opened, will bo able to go to Mercor if ho wants to spend a day away from town, but his employees have to woik dm ing tho wholo week, and I dare eay if one were to ro to his employer and say, "I don't want 1 to go to Mert?r next Sunday, became 1 will be breaking tho Sabbath, and I would piefei taking Fnday and abstaining from work on that day,"— tho answer w.iuld be, " I havo no ob|ection to your travelling on Sunday, but 1 do object to pay you for work yoa do not do on Friday.'' It is a question that affects the liberty of tho subject I may be wi on? as to tho majority being { in favour of Sunday travelling, but 1 gathered that it was so from what you your'elf admit— tho very great disposition to use tho railways on Sunday. [ nnderstvid there is a greater inclination to use them j on a Sunday than on ordinal y day-j. That seems to indicate that the majoiity are not holding your views ; and, as I have said, I cau appeal to very high clerical authority with respect to the use of railways on Sunday. All that you can ask ia, that each man should bo allowed to do what La thinks right, care being takou that no need less offence be given to thobo who, I am sure, are actuated by the deepest possible conviction of what i3 right. I hope thoie it nothing in what I have said to lead you to any impression but that T havj the gioatest respect for those who hold these conMctions and believe that they hold them t>uiceiel}\ I merely asked you to allow me to speak on behalf of all sides, aud not oa behalf of one only. Mr. Firth : With regard to your reference to the Southern pn-'iti^, T u\\, f -,iy th it we ouraelves have mimfeited <i vinpnitiou to

offer a revionablo coiripioimse, by asking tin Government to limit the trains to one each w.iy in tno morning and oao each way in tho evening, so that oir action is not in opposition to that of the bishops to whom you have alluded. W© are taking what we consider a liberal view ; we aro uot asking the Government to stop tho t-ains altogether. As to the large numbor of travellers on Sunday being an indication that the majority of the inhabitants aro in favour of it, I may say that although 1,200 may travel on Sunday, that docs not repiesont the majority in the town Rnd suburbs. The reason why such a large number travel exist3 in the fact th*t railway travelling is new iu this country, and very probably the traffic will ia time become much less. But that is not the point. We a."-e de3iroas of impressing upon the Government that they should not wilfully take up a position of running as many train3 on Sundays »s on week days, under tho supposition that such a course would be approved of by that large section of tho community that I think is a majority, though they speak very often more by their works than by words. We are desirous to point out to the Government that that section of the community is not favourable to Sunday trains. Mr. Vogel : I understand your views perfectly ; there is not the slijhest doubt or obscurity in what you have said. You do not object to railway travelling, but you propose arbitrarily to fix two trains on v tinday. Since you do not object to railway travelling the ground 18 cleared very much, and it becomes a question of degree. The department cannot bind itself to run only two trains a day, but, generally, the direction which the department gives is not necessarily to encourage Sunday traffic, and not to hare excursion trains and low rates. Two traina a day iu same parts of the country might prove an immenso encouragement to Sunday traffic, because in somo places only one train is ordinarily used. It is a mere matter of comparison. Generally, it seems to me that what I have said is not altogether in the opposite direction to that which you ask, yourselves ; but as to fixing the number of trains now it would be simply idle to do so. Wo cannot tell what may be the traffic or demand. It may be that the novelty of the thing has rather encouraged Sunday traffic, and perhaps one train may bo enough in courso of time. All I have to say is that it will not b» our desire to encourage traffic by by running trains at a low rate and only excursion trains, but certainly to endeavour that the trains shall be run in such a manner as that those who are engaged in observing the Sabbath in a religious point of view may not hare their feeling3 hurt or shocked. Mr. Firtii thanked Mr Vogel, and the deputation withdrew.