AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 1868.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XXIV, Issue 3559, 12 December 1868, Page 6

AUCKLAND PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. FRIDAY, NOVEMBER 11, 1868.

The Speaker took the chair at 3 p.m. The sitting was begun with prayer. i ' ! i

MINUTES. The minutes of the preceding, sitting were read aid confirmed.

' PETITIONS. Mr. Statnes presented a petition from Samuel I rown, of Remuera, praying for a reward for having ii troduccd a system of dressing flax. The petitioner 8 it out that he tad made au agreement witli Mr. VThitaker, when Superintendent, to instiuct the. ii aunigrants in » method of dre->siog flax by which £ ley could earn ss. a-day, and to create an export, in return for which he was to receive are ward. Ihe petitioner alleged thtt he had fulfilled Ids {put of the agreement, but had not received the reward. 1 1 The petition was received.

I AUDIT OOMMITTRE. Mr. CaMGHTON moved, " That an Audit Committee be appointed ; to consist of Mr. Buckland, Mr. Cheeseman, Captain Cooper, Mr. Freer, Mr. Gordon, Mr. Maclean, and the mover." ! The motion was agreed tr>.

HAKBOtm LOAN CONSOLID \TION BILL— SECOND ! READING. Mr. Creighton, in moving the second reading of this bill, explained its principal provisions. J-e happened to know that the breakwater and the new additions to tin whart would require considerable improvements befoie long. It wa3 only right i<hst ,the expense should come out of the ha>bt>ur endowments which, properly tnanagwd, woul't pay a con siderable portioa of these t charges. There was a very considerable portion of the harbour endowment which had not been used, and -which, if properly managed, might become a source of profit to the province. The Government proposed to add the arrears of interest and sinking funl to the principal, »nd to authorise an a-lvance of £5 000 from the public funds for the carrying out various neca« s^ry improvements, which auin would also be added to the de! t. The Speaker said the harbour endowment*, according to the Act of the General Assembly of 1860, were defined to be all the lands below high*water mark between the Wafchman and the Barrier. Mr. CBKIGHi'oU": An! certain other lands. Captain Cooper '•aid it appeared to him that the country districts might suffer if the provincial funds were made liable for this £5,000. If that mon^y were taken out of the ordinary revenue, it might withdraw money which might lie expended on more necessity and beneficial objects, such as education for the country Jtie would move that the second reading be postponed until Tuesday. Mr. McLkod seconded the motion. The bill contemplated absorbing a portion of the ordinary re venue of the province, which might be mora beneficially expended on other objects. Mr. Macready said there wa3 no more necessity for postponn q the reading of thi« hill th»n there had been to postpone the City Board Loan Consolidation Bill. Mr. c heehan said the Government seemed to be animated by a desire to expend the revenue on the town to the prejudice of theco-mtry, which was tWnt; nsglecfrd altogether by the Government. Ihe Government ought rather to turn their attention to the country, in order to foster an export trade, than to lavish money oa the iinprorerae.it of the harbour, so as to encouiage an import trade tq the prejudice of local producers. Mr. Freer wou'd support the Government. He had seen that a great ds*l of danger and inconvenience had resulted from the state of disrepair into which the wharf hid fallen. Dr. Nicholson thought the hon. and gallant member for thi Northern Division had no reason to object to the bill. He did not understand that the Government contemp'ated expending the whole £5 000 at once, but merely to use it in order to supplement the fees accruing from the wharf as a fund for improvements. lie would support the bill. , c Mr. Swanson said hon. membera appeared to forget that, fthi.e the bill would consolidate the loans and reduce the interest, it would increase the loan to the extent of £50 000. If this sum was to bo plaatd at the disposal of the Government, he should like to have the plans of all necessary improvements aud requirements placed before the Council, with a clear statement of the source from which the money was to be derived. If the endowments were so extensive as they were rep eseuted to be, there might be some method of supplementing the fund for meeting all requirements and making improvements. There was a great deal of land that might be utilised now lying perfectly useless, and the harbour endowments appeared to be getting deeper and deeper into difficulty. Ha did not find fault with the breakwater. Before that was erected one gale occurred which had destioyed more property than the breakwater itself cost. Mr. McTlhone would support the adjournment fle quite agreed that many young members of the Couucil were very indifferently informed oa the subject, and therefore he would Biipport the adjournment iv order t » give members an opportunity to become better acquainted with, th- mutter. Mr. CreighTi>n said the hon. and gallant member for the Northern Division seemed to have assumed th»t, because the Governm-ut proposed to spend £5,000 on the harbour, therefore th..- c >untry was to be 'neglected. The fact was the object of the bill was the very reverse. The Government could not lease or let the allotments iv the harbour until the breakwater road was repaired, but he did not think it would be fair to the country districts to appropriate a special vote of £1,500, or what-ver bum might be re quired, from the revenue. It proposed, as thi3 expen litura was required for a special purpose, to make it a charge upon the hirbour itself. Thus the me»sure was really oue calcu lated rather to secure justice to the country than injury. Ihe condition of the breakwater and the wharf rendered expenditure necessary ; and, though the Government. did not intend to exoend the whole £5 000, it would expand as much as would be necessary fr >m time to time in order to prevent the wharf being wa>he.l away. The present Government was the legatee of all the mi>management of vast Government-*, as well as the botching and incomp"tence of succe-sive engineers. The proposal of the country members seerae'l to be that the province should make a present of a certain cum to the harbour with interest. Mr. HORST said it wai an example of Ihe negligence of the Government in furnishing information that no intimation had been given to the Council as to the manner in which this d fijiency of interest and sinking fund in the loan had aiiseu. He saw no objection to the priucip'e of consolidation, and the only question was the expediency of giving this money to the Government That, however, was one that might be debited in committee. He regretted that there should be any oppo ition between country and town. Country members should bear in mind that if the har-our ace >mmod*t on wan bad or defective, the cost of landing iup irts would be increased, and th-re would b< a proportionate increase in the coit of all consumable articles— which would f a 1 < n th« couutry and town alike. He did think, however, that thene bi Is should have been delayel until after the financial statement had been lvi 1 before the Council, for nud-r present circumstances hon. membera were totally in the dark upon certain essential matters. The amendment was put and negatived, and the Council went into committee on the bill, Mr. B. Graham in the chair. In moving the first clause of the bill, The Provincial Secretary said the Government only desired to have the first clause of the bill agreed to, when progress mi^hfc be reported, »Dd leave gircn to sit; a^ain, after the financial sla'ement had been made. Mr. Swanson was glad that the Government had adopted this course. He remembered, when a committee had been appointed during a former session, that the very things that were recommended were not d"nr>, while those that were condemned were dove. The hon. gentleman went on to-con-demn the Gore-street jetty. The whole harbour appeared to be administered for the purpose of rendering it necessary to bring all the carts up Queen-streeb. The object seemed to be to make Queen-street the only main thoroughfare. The Gorestreet jetty was at present a mere promenade, and comparatively useless for any other purpose. The liabilities against the harbour, which ought never to have exceeded .660,000, had now advanced to over £90,000. Mr. Wynn rose to order. Hon. members were debating the principles of the bill, which should have been done on 1 the motion for the second reading. Mr. McLeod said he would oppose the bill to the last. He believed it would be an injustico to the province, especially as it had been stated when the former loan was granted that it was to be j the last. If the measure had been merely for tie province to back up the borrowing powers of the harbour trustees he would have su, 'ported it j but in it? present shape it would have his most strenuous opposition, On the motion of the Provincial Secretary the Chairman reported progress, and leuve was given to •it again on Tuesday.

MESSAGE. The Speaker laid on th* table Message No. 12 of his Honor the Snpermtenleur, recommending the re&ervation of certain lands in a schedule appended, for educational purposes, iv accoi dance with, the Auckland Wuste Lauds Act. FENCING ACT REPEAL BILL. The Provincial Secretary moved that the Council go into committee on this bill. The Provincial Solicitor said the intention of thfl Government was to introduce a clause iuto the bill providing for the protection of existing right-*, and that then he would move that the committee report progress, and that the Fencing Bill, Highways Act JAmendment Bill, Weeds and Water-courses Bill, Sheep Bill, Impounding Bill, and oth^r bills <-f the same character, should be referred to a select committee, in order that the whole might be erabailed in one compehensive bill and refold to the Highway Boards, lie Government was animated by a sincere desire to do the fullest justice to the couut'y ; indeed, he had only on that day been twitted with dome: too much for the country. He did not believe, however,- that such a thing was possible. The Council yvent into committee on the bill, Mr. Freer in the chair. . In tho ducusnon on the repealing clause of tbe bi 1, Captain Cooper suggested that the Government should communicate with all the Highways Boards within reasonable distance, in order to obtain suggestion*. Mr. McLeod objected to passing the repealing clause of the bill, as it would be practically leaf iug the country altogether destitute of a Feuciug Act. It was all very well for people in the neighbourhood of Auckland where the soil whs of a fertile volcanic nMure, but it was a very different thing where many settlers lived up>n the proceeds of daiiy produce. These cattle, as a rule, grazed upon the comparatively barren land; and though tbe cattleowner might himself possess little or no land, his cattle <lid no barm to the 'an « of his neighbours; n»y, these cattle fertilised the land, and help-d to cleirit. In the Nor h the settlers owned all the ban en laud, while the choiie spots were reserved by the natives to themselves, or had been secured, he was ashamed to say, by officials in the Survey Department. One gentleman, who was now a magistrate iv the country, bad pointed out ft choice «p >t of land, and ha I told him how he meant to secure that lhud for himself, by his interest with the Survey Department. Mr. Ckeiohton rose to order. He did trust that hon. memberd would not be allowed to take advantage of the floor of thU Council to mau.e such sweeping charges and insinuations against gentlemen in offioe. if the hon. gentleman was in possession of auy fact*, why had lie not the courage to tible a specific motion tv challenge an inquiry, and he promised the hon. member that the present Government would afford every facility for inquiry. Any other course was unfair. Mr. McLeod said it certainly wore a very bad appearance to see tbe Provincial Secretary defending the mal-admmistration of previous Governments. The repeal of the Fencing Act would be a positive injury to nanny of the country districts. Mr. R GuAHAM app oved of the proposal to consolidate the Acti similar to the Fencing Act as a means of presenting c .nflictiug and cxc ssive legislation, lie thought the Council ahmld be fcau-iie.l with the assurance tint the Government would not proceed with the third reading until the bills had beeu sent to a select committee. Dr. Nicholson reminded hon. members that the passing this clause through its second reading would not plelge the Council to agreeing to th* bill, and that future oppoituuitiea wcild b8 afforded of throwi >q it out. Mr. O Meaba said he bad attended an influential meeting at Marsden before coining down, at wh eh also his oollejgue was piesent. At that meet ng botli ptockowners and ag ioultiirists were rep-e-semed/aud yet he and his colleague were pledged to o,ipo-e the repeal of the Fencing Act. He wou'd not, however, offer any factions opposition to the bill, seeing that the Government proposed to re r er the whole of these bills to a select committee. Mr. WYiftf said he could not understand how any hon. member could have formed the impression tbat the Government intended to proceed fmther with the bill at present. The Government propose! to refer these bills to a select committee, aud, when a comprehensive bill had been prepared andpissed, the lepeal Act could then be passed through its remaining stages. Mr. Swanson hoped power would be given to the Road Boards to prevent people having cattle to their own exclusive profit, and the general injury of their neighbours. In some districts new settlers had as a first step to incur a great expense, in order to fence out their neighbours' cattle. The profits derived by people who were comparatively small landowners, but who ran their cattle upon thu land* of their neighbours, weie easily accounted for. The stockowners seemed to look upon the lands of their neighbours, an though they had a prescriptive risht; and, if this feeling was to be encouraged, we should have the country a pastoral and not an agricultural one, and the minori<y would profit at the expense of the great bulk of the people. The productive powers of the country and its capability of supporting population would bo lessened, aud the land would be hauded over to a select fenr. There were places where stockowne'S were in the habib of i>urniuif off the fern at certain (tea-ons of the year, in order to ivu prove tbe feed for cattle. What would become of fences in such places as the^e ? The clause was agreed to. The following clmsa was also agreed to:— " Nothing in this Act contained shall be construed 3 > as to affect the past operation of the Fencing Act of the Aucklaud Proviuci.il Legislature, 1855, or the validity or invalidity of anythiug done or suffered, or any righc, title, obligation, or liability accrued under that Act before the commencement of this Act." 'I he Council resumed, the bill was reporte \ us amended, aud the third reading fixed for Tuesday next. MESSAGE NO 8-RESKUVES. On the motion of the Provincial Solicitor, this order of the dny was postponed until next sitting* day. HIGHWAYS BILL, 1868— SECOND READING. The Provincial j^olicitor said he wouM ask the Council to agiee to the second reading of this Mil as a preliminary step to referring this and other bills of the same character to a select committee. The secun i reading was agreed to. The Provincial Solicitor moved, "That the Fencing Act, 1855, Jttepeal Bill, the Highways Bill, the'lhistle Act, the Dog Wuisance Act, the Impounding Act, tha Weeds and Water* courses Actf and certain clauses of the Municipal Polioe Act b'3 referred to a select committee, to consist of Major Cooper, Messrs. Cheeseman, R Graham, J. Gordon, Hurst, Maclean, Martin, Mcllhone, Dr. Nicholson, O'Meara, Farnall, and the mover. The motion was agreed to. THE ESTIMATES. Tn reply to Dr. .Nicholson, M*. Cheight >N intimated that the Government proposed to adjourn at the rising of the Council to Tuesday, by wuich time the Government hoped to be able to bring down the estimates. vote in aid of librart. Mr. Chkeseman moved, "That a respectful address be presented to his Honor the Superintedeufc, requesting that he will place on the estimates the sum of £100, towards the support of the Provincial Council libraiy." He said nothing had been voted iv aid of the library for the past four years He felt that the library wftß a real benefit to the province, and that it would be expedient to add » number of books and periodicals ti it. Captain Cooper s<id he would like to know-how the fuuds of the library stood. 'J ho Speaker said he be leved Mr. O'-NTeill, who was the treasurer of the library, had a sum of £70 in bis hands, which was anticipated within £10 or £20 by orders which had bee i sent home. There had been no vote in aid of the library since the Superintendency of Mr. Graham. Mr. Hurst supported the motion. He hoped that a list of books required would be preoared. Mr. Maclean supported the motion, and hoped that some bo >ks oa agriculture would be added. Dr. Nicholson said he hoped some works on metallurgy would be added, now that the Thame3 bad become so import <nt an interest to the province. Mr. Wynn said the great 01-j^ct that ought to bo contemplated in these votes was to supply standard works out of tbe public funds which private enterprise was unable to furnish. Mr. Mollhofe looked upon the vote as being devoted to the acquirement of a lnxtiry. If the library were open to the public it would be a different thing, but as io steo i it would be a very difficult thing for a country member to go through ail the necessary forms before he could have acee-s to the library. He would rather see £100 voted for the relief of tho Po>etiy B «y refugees cr for the sick and de ttute. Hon. members of that Council were s p* posed to be men of sufficient means to provide themselves with books, and he would not like it to be*»id thst h<>n. members of th*t Counc 1 provided themselves with books at the pub ie expense. He would move that the amount be reduced to £5 and I not exceeding £10. '

Mr. O'M ear a seconded the amendment, on the Kjore of economy. .... j •. Mr. Farnah, would vote against the amendment. Though the public derireU no direct beuefib f.otn the llbr«y, new membeW wh> attended the Council without remuneration cert»iul? deserted something in return for their hertice*. Moreover, they might very ottm require book* for reference. Mr. FttBBK vras surprised to find Mr. Mcllhone calling his own tool« a luxury. (Laughtei.) Mr. Mcllhonb rose to order. The Speakkb. ruled that the hon- member was perfectly in order. . „ , j Mr. Fjrser said he would vote against the amend* men 1 ". , „ Mr. Swanson condemned the practice of expending the funds of the library in *.he purchase of periodicals, such as " Blackwood's Magazine," and similar pobh. cations. Tf, however, the money was to baexpended m the purchase of valuable books, huoha3 books of reference, &c. he would sup «o rt the motion. Mr. CrEIOHTon: The matter mictht easily have been left to the Government. If the Council had sent an address to the Superintendent on the nubj -ct he had no doubt but that jt would receive every attention. There were, he believed several valuable books at Onehung*, »nd at Matak*na, which were comparatively iweless there, and they might be a valuable a-lditionto the Provincial Council Library. Mr. Swanscw said, with regard to the library at Matakan«, the books belonging to the province were kept under lock and key as books of reference, and cpuld only be taken out by the librarian. These books had b-en of immense value, and he knew one book ou ropa-spinoiug which had been copied three times in manuscript. Dr. Nicholson said the books at Onehunga were consulted daily. The original motion was agreed to.

SCHOOLTEACHERS' PETITION. Captain CoOPER moved, "That the petition of Messrs. Taylor, Edwards, and other schoolteachers, y ester lay received by the Council, be referred to the Petitions Committee." Mr. FarnaLL seconded the mofon, which was agreed to.

PETITION OP MBS. MURPHY. Captain Cooper moved, " That the patition of Mrs. Murphy be rtf erred to the Petitions Committee." — Ayreed to.

TAX ON HAWKERS AND PEDLARS Mr. Fbekr move I, "That a respectful alilress be presented to bis Honor the Superintendent requesting him to aentl down to this Council a bill to imposed tax on hawkere and pedlars." He thought the time hid well arrived when siu-h * bill should be imposed. Ik was an injustice that a fox should be impend og shopkeeper*, while hawker* contributed nothing whaWer t<> the revenue. He kn*w of cas-s in which hawkera were mnking a fine income for years past, without paying one penny to the revenue. Captain Coopeb would object to the bill, if it was intended to refer to the out-district*. Mr. Fbkkr said he bal intended the bill to apply to the city of Auckland alone. Obtain Coophr sai 1, in that case, he would have no otjt-ction to second the motion. Mr. Mcllhone moved that the words "in the city of Auckland" be added tj the motion. Mr. SwanSjn sail, if the operation of the Act was to be l.mited to the town, there would be a good deal of evasion of it by peop'e in the suburb*. Ho thought also that there should be a difference of degree, Ijecause it w mid be nnjmt to ch-trge a pior tiiil wlio was en leavouring to earn an honest ljrelihood by travelling about with a b»sket, containing Wares only to the value of 303., the name amount as a man who went about with a small box containing jewellery to the value of hundteh of pounds. _ Mr. Freer would like to amend the motion by the insertion of the words •* Parnell, Newlon, &c." The Spb^kee ruled that the second amendment was out of order. Mr. Creighton objected to the principle of monopolies and hedging about special trades and pursuits. It bhou'd be remembered that the shopkeepers get an equivalent for their rates in theshane of repaits to streets, lighting, police protection. &c. It should also be remembered that the hawkers had to purchase from the shopkeeper and retail their goods, and it would be manifestly unfair to make them pay a license by which they would have to contribute doubly to the revenue. It woul I be a great injustice to drive a man out of the means of earning livelihood because be was unable to p*y a heaoy weekly rant. He thought it would ba unjust unless the shopkeeper also were to pay a license. Mr. Stages said if the Provincial Secretary kept a shop he would alter his opinion. There were so many expenses and losses attached to shopkeeping that permitinir hawking was frequently a great iojury to the shopkeapers. The motion was agreed to in its amended form. auctioneers' licensing act amendmbnt bill. Mr. l eeer moved, "That a respectful address be presented to his Houor the Superintendent, re-que-tinsj him to send down to this Council a bill to amend an Act entitled • An Act to make better provision for Licensing Auctioneers in the province of Auckland.' " He said it was an injustice that a man who took out a license for only a portion of the y^ar should pay m much ar if he took out the license for the wholf year. The license should also be negotiable, and a few alterations should be introduced into the Act to meet those canes, so that whe'e an auctioneer died the unexi'ired term of liis license might become of some l<enefit to his family. Mr. Swanson seconded the motion. He did not see whativa-ionab'e o'-je-tion thera could be to it. Mr. Crrighton said the great dim >ulty was this, that, whereas in the case of the publican the honse was licensed, in the c«se of the auctioneer the license was given to the individual. If the motion were came 1, the revenue would be decreased to a very large extent, and in many cases the respectable auctioneers might Miffer from fraud. One licence might often be used by three or four persons, and the revenue might be rlfcfrau led to a very large extent. The Government ould not undertake to briog down a >y *uch bill. Mr. Freer replied. Tho motion was »2 r eerl to.

PETITION 1 OP MR WRIOHT. Mr. Swanson moved, "That the petition of Mr. Wiighfc be referred to .the Petitions Committee." — Agreed to.

RETURN OP RAILWAY MATERIAL. Mr. Freer moved, " I bat a respectful address be presented to hi* Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to send down a return showing the quantity, desciiption, Le, of all material received, and n<>w in the hands of the Provincial Government for the use of the Auckland an>i Dmry Rail* ay." He said his reason for introducing this motion was to ascertain where the railway plant was store I and what poit on of it remained. He had been informed that some portion of the plant was perishable, aud he desired to ascertain whether it could be made use of. Mr. Creighton hoped the motion would not be pressed. The Government were novr endeavouring to procure all the information that was procurable. To m»ke »n inventory would involve tha labour of thr^e or four men for nix weeks. 'I ha Government had in contemplation the utilisation of the stock, but at preseut there was no inventory in the possession of the Government, not had there been such an inventory h« believed ; at all events the Railway Com-mis-tioners had not handed over such an inventory. The Government would a 9 soon as possible have all the information possible. Mr, Freer was perfectly satisfied with the explanation of the l'rovincial Secretary, and he would withdraw the motion, with the leave of the Council. Mr. R. Gbaham said the motion could do no harm. If it were carried, and even if the return could not be prepared duriu? the present session, the motion would serva to show the deaire of the Oouncil. Mr. Cheesejixn said he knew of several inventories in existence, and he believed he had placed one of them in the possession of the Council. He would be prepared on the next day to inform the Provincial Secretary where an inventory might be found. Mr. Creighton : I should be much obliged to y.m if you w-iuld. Leave was given lo withdraw the motion.

[ PETITION OF ROBEKT M> QUBEN The fo'lowio^ mod >n lapsed in the absence of the mover, Mr. J. Gordon :: — •' That the netiliou of Robert MiQ-ieen (teacher), presented to the Council in session 22, be referred to the Committee on Petitions.' 1

IMPERIAL CONTROL OP MILITARY OFFICERS. Captain Cooper obtained \exva to postnone the followiog motion landing in his name :— I ' That a select oommitbee be appointed to prepare a petition to the Queen and both House* of Parliament, praying that tbe control and organisation of the militia and voluut*"e^ forces may be resumed l>y her MHjesty's representative in the colony, and >h t the defence of the colony and disposal of the Queen '« troops and l<>cal forces may be t-n trusted to a milifc«ry offi. er app»inted by her Maj sty ; omtni^tee ,t » consist of Mr. Bii'kland, Mr. ('hefoemau, Mr. Creighfcon, Mr Farnall, Mr. Huts'-, Mx. Maclean, Dr. Nicholson, and the mover."

AUCKLAND AND DRURY RAILWAY COMPENSATION". Mr, Fbeer obtained leave to withdraw the following motion standing in his name! on the ground

that the information be sought h«d leeri «up« pied to him: — "That a tespeciful address bt presented to his Honor the JSuperiufcodeitt, re* questing him to tend down a return showing the Amount of money already pad n« oornpeosatioa and interest to landed and other proprietors through whose property the Auckland and Drury Railway has passed; together with th« names of the recipients."

ADJOURNMENT. The business set down for Monday wa« seb down for Tuesday, to which day the Council adjourned at 7 p.m. _____________