PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Friday, December 5.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume XIV, Issue 1091, 11 December 1857, Page 3

PROVINCIAL COUNCIL. Friday, December 5.

We have only space for an abstract of this day'sproceedings. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present : the Speaker and 18 members. The Speaker announced that he had in compliance with the resolution of the Council presented the reply adopted by the Council to hts Honor the Superintendent's address. The following Messages were received and read. Message No. 8 covered, correspondence with the health, officer on the subject of boarding vessels. Message No. 9 enclosed the following letter. The New Zealand and Australian Mail Steam Navigation Company (limited), 13, St. Mary Axe, London, 16th Sept., 1857. To his Honor the Superintendent, Auckland. Sir,— l beg to inform you that the above Company has this day completed their arrangements with the 1 Imperial Government, and with Mr. Sewell on behalf of Near Zealand, for the conveyance of her Majesty's Mails between New Zealand, Australia, and the various Province* in the first-named Colony, and furthermore, that the necessary Steamships will he despatched to the r Colony with as little delay as possible to assume their . various stations. I have the honor to be, .Sir, r Your most obedt. servant, Fkbdx. T. Gibbs. - Message No. 10 enclosed an estimate of the sum* rej, quired to cover the expenditure for the year 1857. Message No. 11 a statement of the ezpences incurred w by the Education Act.Sir. Pollen gave notice that on the next sitting day he would move that Message 10 be taken into consideration. / - Mr., Mtohimvn informed the Council that the Ex- . ecutive desired to take Tuesdays, Wednesdays, and Fridays, for the consideration of Bills and other public business leaving Thursdays, open for general business. , Mr. Busbt moved and Mr. Wood seconded that an addressee presented to his Honor the Superintendent to apply to the general government for any estimate which may have been formed of the expenditure neces•»rjn66~provide accoinouatidaior 100 troops at the Bay of«ands, ' * >

Mr. Middlemas moved an amendment that such an address was inexpedient. This was seconded by Mr. King and considerable discussion, ensued ; resulting in tlie amendment being negatived and the original motion being carried. > "Dr. Pollbn moved and Mr. Bhennan seconded that the Superintendent's Message No. 7 be referred to the committee appointed to consider Message No. 17, Session VI. Mr. Wood in accordance with notice brought forward his motion for bringing the allotments of the Whau township into the market within the next three months Discussion ensued, and an amendment of Dr. Lee's to the eflect that it was uncle liable for the Council to interfere with duties of the Provincial Executive having been withdrawn, the original motion was put and negatived. The Council adjourned until Tuesday next (this day.)

Tuesday, December 8, 1857. The Council met at 3 o'clock. Present:— The Speaker and twenty -two member. Petitions. Mr. A. 0' Nr.u,L presented a petition from certain inhabitants of the North Shore, praying for nn increase to the pay of the boatmen of the North Shore Ferry. , The petition was received. Mr. Busby presented a petition, from William Crush Daldy, complaining of the manner in which the extension of the Queen street Wharf was being carried oit, and praying thaj all expenditure should be suspended until a full inquiry had taken place. Dr. Pollen handed in copies of correspondence between the Provincial and the General Governments, on the subject of steam communication, via Panama Notices of Motion. Mr. Middlemas gave notice that on the next sitting day he would move •• That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting him to place on the estimiteMhe sum of £500 for the encouragement of Agriculture and Horticulture in the Province of Auckland ; and that the sum of £300 of such amount be given to a Provincial Agricultural and Horticultural Society ; and that £200 of the same be handed over to branch or affiliated Societies." Mr. BOBBY gave notice that on the next sitting day he would move " That the petition of Mr. Daldy be referred to a Select Committee, with instructions to take evidence on the subject to which it relates, and with authority to call for persons and papers. The Committee to consist of Messrs. Pollen, Boylan, Cooper, Griffin, Lee, Vercoe, and the mover." Also, "That he be discharged from serving on the Audit Committee." Mr. Griffin gave notice that on the next sitting day he would move •• That the Report on Hickton's petition be taken into consideration." Mr. Wood, in compliance with the 42nd clause of the Standing Rules and Orders, laid on the table a copy of a Bill, entitled the Licensed Victuallers' Bill, and gave notice that, on Thursday next, he wuuld move for leave to bring in the Bill. Message*. The SPHA.KRX announced the receipt of the following Messages, which he read : — Message 12— Enclosing a letter from Mr. Monro, urging the speedy settlement of the last arrived Nova Scot Tans Message 13 — Enclosing petition from working men at Onehunga and Otahuhu, praying that the system of day-labour, under overseers, may be substituted for thesy*rein of contracts. Message 14— Enclosing copy of correspondence, relative to Mr. A. McPherson's land claim at ttie Whau. On the motion of- Dr. Pollen, Message No. 12 was referred to the Committee on Immigration. Business of the Day. Dr. Poh.es mo\ed "I hat Message No 10 of his Honor the Superintendent, with the enclosures, he considered in Committps of the whole Council. ' The hon. member made a few remarks, which were not au'lible across the table. The following amendment was moved by Mr. Bufby " That this Council refuse to enter upon the consideration of the Estimates of the sum* required to cover the expenditure of the Province of Auckland for the year 18-57, inasmuch as the greater pait of that expenditure has already taken place without lnuful authouty ; and this Council carifiot give its sanction to thai expenditure without betraying the interests ot their constituents, and making themselves accessary to the violation of the law by the Superintendent in taking upon himself the expenditure of the public money, without the authority of an appropriation Act, passed by this Council" Mr. Bosby, in moving his amendment snid— To ask this Council to enter upon the consideration of the Estimates in this form is to ask them to ignore the duties which are imposed upon them by law. The proposition, that we should agree to vote the sums placed upon this estimate, appears to me to assume that, as a representative body, we have a name to live, while we are dead. That we are to keep up the form of a representative government when the spirit is departed That we are not only to sanction the deception or corruption of the voters, by which alone they could have been led to absolve the Superintendent, — it it is indeed true, as he intoims us, that have absolved him— from his illegil proceedings : but to be ourselves deceived or corrupted. Sir, it has been truly said that the coiruption of the best things is worst. Better, far, a despotic government, than a representative government which is false to its own principles. The one may consist with truth, the other can only exist by deceiving, and being deceived. It seems, indeed, a monstrous thing, that a whole community should be subject to the uncontrolled will of one man. But history is not without examples of wise and upright princes, who made it the study oi their lives to execute justice and maintain truth. The object of representative government is to obtain some security to the community that these, and the other ends of good government, shall be obtained, by making the will of the ruler subservient to the law, and to the will of the people. If the despotic prince acts in violation of the law ot natural right, or of laws, which he has himself framed, he is at least exempt from the necessity ot having r^gouise to fraud and corruption, But the government which is subject to the law, and which violates the law, can only, — unless like Napoleon it has an army at its back, — maintain itself in power, by deceiving the people as to the true ends of government, and their own true interests ; or by making use of the means in its power to attain its ends, by corruption As I shall not be allowed to speak again, I shall take this opportunity of saying, that should the fate of this amendment be similar to the fate of the amendment which I moved upon the address, I shall not compromise myself by taking part in discussing the items of which the Estimate is composed. My prtjeenee here can be of little use. I will leave those to tithe the mir\t and cummin who have neglected the weightier matters of the law. " Let the dead bury their dead." Those who have swallowed the camel will not strain at the gnat. Mr. MBRttiMAN, rising on a point of order, wished to know whether, in the event of the motion finding no seconder, he should be allowed to address the Council, in reply to assertions which the hon. member had made — assertions which were not consistent with fact. The Speaker ruled that the hon. member could not. Mr. Merriman said, in that case, he would second the motio/i pro forma, and ii doing so, commented on the inconsistency displayed by the hon. membei for the Bay, who had not hesitated, in former sea ions, to give his vote in approval of the expenditure of monies that had been expended without the authority of the Council. He denied that the Superintendent had declared in his address, as stated by the hnn. member for the Bay, that he was absolved by the veidictof the constituencies, from accounting for his conduct. Such was not the case. All the Superintendent said was this, " I have done that which is not in acenwdance with the law. I consider that the verdict of the constituencies releases me from the necessity of defending the course I have taken ; but, should my conduct be impugned, then I shall be prepared to defend myself." Mr. Boylan made a few remarks in the same strain. The amendment was puPand negative*!, whereupon Mr, Busby retired from the Counoil Chamber. The Council then proceeded to consider the Estimates. A discussion took place on the Ist item, £600 for the Superintendent, which ended in its being struck out, the Council being of opinion that it was unnecessary to have it on the Estimates, as the Superintendent's salary was already fixed hy special Act. The remaining items were then gone through, and passed without alteration, with the exception -of one—'* Messager to the Waste Land Board," whose salary, on the motion of Mr. Kelly, was raised £20 per annum. The Council divided on Mr. Boylan's motion fur increasing the salary of the flabour Master, which was negatived. Mr. Wood also ineffectually attempted to obtain an increase to the salary of the Surveyor and Draftsman in the Waste Lands Department. The Chairman reported progress and the Council resumed. , ■ The Audit Committee. The time for bringing up the the report of the Audit Committee was enlarged for one week. Mr. Hickton's Petition. Mr. GmrPiN brought up the report of the Committee on Hickton's petition. The report merely stated that the Committee did not find sufficient grounds for interferring with the return of the Returning Officer at the Bay of Islands. ' ' Mr. Griffin gave notice that, on the next sittiiig day,

ho would move that the Council take into consideration the report of the Select Committee on litclUoirs petition. The Council then adjurned.

Wednesday, December 9. The Council met at the usual hour". Piesent: The Speakei and se\en teen member's. The minutes of the last meeting were read and confirmed. Several Notices of Motion u'ere given which will be found below. Bernard Bey7iold's petition. The Speaker reminded the Council that tht pptitioner in a certdin petition hud been summoned to allow at the bar that day. Mr. Meummajt moved that B-rnaid Reynolds be called to the bar to support his petition. This was agreed to. The "petition having been read. Mr. Mhrkiman said it would be necessary for petitioner to prove that he had taken the preliminary steps required by law before the Councii could hear him, that he must show a focus standi by proving in the hist place service of notice and copies of petition on thoae petitioned against just as in any ordinary court service of summons must be proved. This led to a very long and angry discussion, many members appearing to consider that the law might be over-riden in this instance and that it was a mockery to summon a person to the bar of the Council and then refuse to hear him. The Petitioner himself on account of the course taken by the Provincial Law Officer declined to answer any ; more questions. The discussion was carried on j with more energy than politeness, Mr. Griffin making use of language which the Provincial Law Officer declared was not used in civilised society, and concluded by an amendment of Mr. Busby's baing carried, dismissing the petition. The Chairman reported Progress, and on the motion of Mr. Busby the Council adopted the report. Dr. Lee gave notice that he would move the contingent notice standing in his name on this day week. Mr. Bushy asked Ins question as to the reason why the Postage had been doubled on foreign letteis at the Bay of Islands Dr. Pollen informed the hon. member that the Provincial Government has no control whatever over the Post Office arrangements. He however Would inform the hon. member that the alteration had been made on the authority ot an oider which, appeared in the 'Government Gazette of the 24th of March. Mr. MtDDLr.MAb's motion "That an address be presented to his Honor the Superintendent, requesting h^m to place on tl,e estimates the sum of £500 for the encouragement of Agriculture and Horticulture in the Province of Auckland ; and that the sum of £300 of of such amount be given to a Provincial Agricultural j and Horticultural Society ; and that £200 of the same be handed over to branch or affiliated Societies ;" not meeting with a seconder fell to the ground. Mr. Busby, in a few words, brought forward his motion for referring Mr. Daldy's petition to a select committee, Mr. Woon said that from the time that Harbnur iin- i provements were first projected by extending the Queen street wharf into deep water, the moat vehement opposition has been manifested bv that party, which is remarkable for nothing so much as the eneigy and vigour of its opposition, when compared with the feebleness, amounting to imbecility, of it 9 administration of public affairs when in power. The present motion appears to me to be nothing more than a factious attempt to throw obstacles in the way of the Government carrying on the very useful improvements which have been commenced on the Queen-street whaif. This i is not the first obstacle that has been thrown in the way. The contractor has had to contend against reports which have been spread from one end of the country to the other, to the effect that the Government was bankrupt, and never would be able to pay for the necessary materials ; and to such an extent has this been credited, that demands have been made upon the contractor for payment before he was allowed to take po-tsossion of the materials he had ordered. To permit such a committee would be an interference with the Executive ; it is their business tr> see contracts properly carried out, and the public interests are sufficiently guarded by requiring security for the due performance of the work and by making only partial payments on account of work done, I object to this enquiry upon principle. The work is car/ied on in the most populous part of the city, in the face of the whole population. It is not done in n corner. It is not protected from public view by a boarding — there is nothing to conceal. As far as lam concerned, the committee', if they like, can go and see every pile driven and every plank laid ; but, if this Councii is to call for Committees of enquiry upon every work as soon as it is commenced, it will open a field for professional jealousies *o manifest themselves, and for the display, on the part of disappointed contractors, of all the enw, hatred, nialipo. and unchaiitableness which unhappily appear in human nature, whenever its pecuniary interest ! is touched I say that, if committees of enquiry are to be appointed whenever anybody choses to ask lor them — it conti actors aie to be inteifered with in the execution of their contracts, ''no public work will ever be satisfactorily earned on in the Province. Sir, it is stated in the petition that the public money is wastefully expended. In one respect, I will admit, that public money has been wasted upon this work. A few years ago, the petitioner, William Crush Daldy, Esq., M G.A., entered into a contract with the Government for the execution* of ceita.n works, upon the Qu^enstreet Wharf. By his contract he was required to eupply hard wood piles. Por th^se he substituted piles of Tanikaka, a material which has no durability whatever when used for the purpose of piles. These have been replaced by piles of a proper mateiial, and in so far, I do admit, that there has been a waste of public money, wasted by the unfair advantage taken of his contract by the present petitioner. I have characterised this motion, and the petition on which it is based, as a factious attempt to throw obstacles m they way of cairying on a useful public work. If it wore otherwise, how is it that the proposed enquiry is limited to this one particuldr work ? how is it that its range is not more extended ? If it is advisable to enquire into the alleged waste of public money on the Queen street Wharf, is it not equally advisable to enquire into the amount wasted by the incessant tumbling down of the Stockade fencer Is it not equally dasirable to enquire into the waste caused by the washing away of the Papakura Valley Bridge, after the first winter's sto! Ms ? into ihe waste occasioned by the malconstruction ' of Governmc.it House, with its leaky walls, its crimped lead, and brick instead of stone chimneys ? Why not enquire too into the size and quality of the piles used at the Whim Btidge, and, though la"', not least, into the waste caused by the petitioner's substitution of Tamkaka for hard wood piles, in his own contract for Queen street Wharf? This motion is illtimed. It can be of no practical utility, a:ul I think the Council would be ill advised in granting the inquiry which is asked. Mr Boyl\n supported the motion. Mr. Mekriman would not oppose the motion, but expressed, as we und n rstood, his disapproval of the imputations conveyed in the petition. Mr. Lynch would support the motion, on the ground that every person contributing to the revenue was perfectly justifiedj ustified in petitioning the Council,if he thought he saw any improper application, or » astef ul expenditure, of the public funds, and he thought the Council would only act rightly in attending to such petition. With reference to the wharf, he must say that he considered the wood work was done a in most substantial manner. There was one portion of the work, however, going on which he did not approve of. The hon. member concluded by saying he would like to see a proper person appointed to supervise the works inj progress, and expressed his opinion that, if there was auy thing in the petition which would tend to improve the system of carrying on the public works, the sooner they went into it the better. Captain Cooper thought they were getting into a very rambling discussion. They had nothing to do with the merits of the petition, still less with the question whether it was a Progress or a Constitutional Whrrf. The simple question was, should the petition be referred to a committee. He was of opinion it should. It was usual to grant Committees in such cases, and he thought it would be invidious to refuse it on this occasion. Mr. Kellt approved of the petition being enquired into, although he disapproved of the language in which it was couched, which he considered rather disrespectful to the Council. With regard to jobs generally, and the Government-house job in particular, Mr. Kelly said he never blamed the Contractor for doing the best he could for himself, but he did blame those whose duty it was to prevent any dodging on the part of tLe contractor, if they allowed it. Mr. Dkjnan objected to the petition ; he thought such inquiry as that demanded should not be held, inasmuch as no works could be judged in an infant state. Mr. Guiffin waa much of the same opinion, and pointed out that even if thg Council wished, they had no power at all to prevent the contractor fulfilling his contract. After some further remarks from several hon. bersMr. Bushy expressed his astonishment at the discussion which had taken place. His motion was merely that the petition should be referred to a select committee, and discussion had taken place, not on the motion, but on the merits of the petition.

The question was then put. The Council' divided with the following result:— Ayes, 9; Noes, 4. The motion was consequently carried. Mr. Busby's motion, to be relieved from serving on the Audit Committee, fell to the ground, on account of not meeting with a seconder. On the motion of Mr. Griffin, the report nf the Rpleot Committee on Hickton's petition was adopted by the Couni il. The Council then adjoin ned.