HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Daily Southern Cross, Issue 730, 27 June 1854, Page 3

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Wednesday, June 21. The Speaker took the chair at 5 o'clock. The Speaker announced a message (No. 5.) from the Officer Administering the Government, relative to money received for Native Reserves at Nelson. The Speaker intimated that members desirous of accompanying him to present the Address to his Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, must be in attendance at 12 o'clock to-morrow. Notices of Motion. Mr. Hart, to move on Friday, " That the Standing Orders be suspended, in order to admit the Memorial of Archibald "Watson Shand, late of Her Majesty's Customs at Otago." Mr. Wortley, to move on Thursday, "That the head of the Executive in this house be asked what has been the final answer of the Government regarding the use of the site called Moray Place in the Town of Dunedin, and what was the opinion on the subject given by the Attorney- General." Mr. Cargill, to move on Thursday, "That a Return of all Lands sold by the Government in the Province of Otago, since the retirement of the New Zealand Company ; the amount received for such Lands, and in what manner such monies have been expended. Also, the number of acres of Waste Lands still remaining unsold to which the Native title has been extinguished ; also the number of acres selected by land orders issued by Land and Emigration Commissioners, and New Zealand Company respectively." Mr. Seavbll obtained leave to postpone his motion for permission to bring in a Bill on the subject of land reserves till Friday. Mr. Mackay, as chairman of the Committee on Steam Communication between the Provinces of New Zealand, was empowered to examine witnesses, call for papers, &c. Marriage Amendment Ordinance. Mr. Forsuth said, he meant to follow up his motion on this subject, by asking leave to bring in a bill for amending the present Marriage Act, unless the hon. gentlemen forming the government took the business out of his hands. The motion, after a trivial verbal alteration, was agreed to. Land Regulations. Mr. Hart said, the object of his motion was to ascertain whether there were any other despatches than i those that had been received by the Governor of New Zealand. He did not know ii any other powers had been delegated to Government, and though a Crown grant was considered to be a final title, it was liable to be set aside if informal, and it might be necessary to bring in a short bill to render those" titles valid. — Motion agreed to. Settlement of Land Claims. Mr. Carleton, in asking leave to bring in a bill for this purpose, did not intend to press the second reading till the Waste Lands Bill was before the house In 1847, a Commissioner examined land claims and made awards upon them ; some, however, were still open, and a settlement was due to those who had them, as •well as to others who merely asked for a new Commissioner to finish what the other had left undone, and he wished this Commissioner to adopt as, his own the awards of the former Commissioner. Though Governor Grey had caused some claims to be cut down considerably, — one from 30 to 5 acres ; — a widow from 8 acres to 1 acre and 2 roods ; he proposed the Commissioner should take up the claims where the former Commissioner left off, and adopt his awards as his own. He did not think the bill would clash ■with, the bill of his hon. friends on the Treasury Bench. He had intended to bring in a bill for the settlement of the whole of the land claims but found it impossible, as it required a separate bill for these claims. He therefore asked leave to bring in a bill for completing the settlement of claims .to land under the pre-emption proclamations. He now Itaoved the first reading of this bill. Mr. Fitzgerald said, he was not aware that the motion had been seconded, or leave yet granted. The Speaker said, it had been taken for granted. Mr. Merriman was prepared to second the motion, •withq^' pledging himself to all the details of the bill. He w^Blell aware that great irregularity had occurred in carr^g out the awards of the Commissioner. A pre-emptive right had been granted to 50 acres ; of this grant there was a fraction of an acre over the 50 acres, and this fraction -was taken out of the claimant's garden. In another case the excess taken cut off the road frontage, so that the settler could not get to his land. Mr. Fitzgerald would not oppose the granting leave to the introduction of the bill, as he had not seen it ; but he was glad to hear the bill was not to be pressed, •until the Government had had time to consider the •whole question of land claims. Mr. Sewell said the Bill embraced two questions ■whilst it only professed to deal with one. The first related to disputed land, and the next to compensation to claimants. It was, he thought, a little at variance with Btanding orders. The granting compensation to claimants and granting land were different subjects. Mr. Carleton was quite ready to profit by the suggestion. He would divide the subject, and introduce two Bills. Leave granted. Vaccination of the Natives. Mr. OBrien said since notice of this motion had been given, a government had been formed, and he thought it better to leave the measure to be carried out by Government, He wa3 willing, notwithstanding, that the Committee should go on and take evidence. lA Committee was agreed to. \ Waste Lands. Mr. O'Neill said as the Government had taken up the question of Waste Lands, it had been assumed that he would withdraw this motion. He was willing to do

so ; but he hoppfd the lands would he given over to the disposal of the Provinces. Motion withdrawn. Llatoral Rolls. Major Greenwood moved for a return of the number of electors on the several electoral rolls. Mr. Fitzgerald did not think such a return could be furnished this session. Major Greenwood wished to have the return made as complete as possible this session. Motion carried. Chairman of Committees. Major Greenwood rose to move that F, W. Merriman, Esq., be appointed chairman of Committees of the whole House ; and, in doing so, entered into a lengthened statement, from which it appeared, that the day after the House met he (Major Greenwood) understood the Southern members wished the Northern members to propose one of their number as Chairman of Committees, and that he (Major Greenwood) and the Northern members consequently solicited the hon. and learned member for the Suburbs to stand for the office promising him their support. It was not until he asked the hon. member for the Bay of Islands to second his motion that he was aware there was any other candidate. It was thought that legal knowledge was desirable in the gentleman who should fill that office. The gentleman who was proposed had that knowledge. He was a settler in every sense of the term. His future prospects whether good or bad were identified and bound up in the future of New Zealand ; and it might be a source of honest pride to him and his children that the first Parliament of the colony had conferred this high honour upon him. We— continued the hon. and gallant member— never thought of the membeT for the Bay of Islands, By we, Ido not mean to say all the Northern members ; but I had spoken to several on the subject, two or three of whom were my own intimate friends. We considered legal knowledge a sine qua non in this case. Mr. Fousaith seconded the motion. Mr. Wakefield spoke at considerable length to show how he had been led first to propose the hon. member for the Bay of Islands as Chairman of Committees. The statement of the hon. gentleman may be compressed into a small compass. The Southern members in return for an unanimous election to the Speakership of a Southern member, were desirous of making their sense of the courtesy known by electing a Northern member as Chairman of Committees. The hon. and learned member for the City of Auckland (Mr. Bartley) as the proposer of the Speaker, was the gentleman first indicated, but finding that he was disinclined, and believing then, that the appointment of the member for the Ba^ of Islands would be agreeable to his (Mr. Bartley's feelings, he (Mr. W.) gave the notice which had ap> peared in his name. When responsible goyernmen was granted, he withdrew his motion, conceiving th< appointment to be legitimately vested in the Ministry, By so doing he had placed his hon. friend at adisadvan. tage, as he now appeared in the amendment instead o: the principal motion. Mr. Wakefield concluded bj asking the hon. and gallant officer to relieve the Hous( from a delicate position by withdrawing his notice ant leaving the question to be settled by the responsible ministers. Mr. Forsaith made a few observations ; after whicl Mr. Bartley rose to move,as an ammendraent.the appointment of the member for the Bay of Islands as Chairmar of Committees. He regretted that the Chairmanshii should be the subject of discussion. Both gentlemer were old friends, and he thought were likely to continue so. He (Mr. Bartley) had had no communication with Major Greenwood. It was consequently incorrect te say that the Northern members had been consulted or this subject ; and he knew nothing for some time o1 Mr. Merriman having been named. (Hear, hear.) IJ it had been intended to be generally known, he (Mr, Bartley) ought to have known something of it. The hon. and learned gentleman pronounced a long and glowing eulogy upon' Mr. Carleton,whomhe characterised as a man of the highest intelligence, and possessing the nicest sense of honour — a gentleman and a scholar ii the proudest acceptation of the term ; one who, although not a barrister, had studied in the Temple, and was well read in law, and who, he affirmed, was well qualified to fill the office in question. Mr. O'Neill having seconded the amendment, and Messrs. Fitzgerald, OBrien, and Porter, having made a few observations, Major Greexwood replied. He thought the greatei part of the unpleasantness had been already incurred. He did not intend to imply that the whole of the Northern members had agreed in the nomination of a candidate. If it were the wish of the House he would withdraw his motion. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Wakefield, to extricate the House from a delicate and disagreeable position, and to enable the hon. and gallant officer to gather its opinion, would move " that according to the usages of ministerial responsibility, it is fitting that the nomination of the Chairman of Committees come from the advisers of his Excellency." The motion was seconded by Mr. Carqill. Dr. Mo>-ro would warn the House that in seeking a means to extricate itself from a delicate and disagreeable duty, it might be led into a more dangerous position,— that of a sacrifice of principle, by the surrender of their right to elect a Chairman of Committees. He regretted the position in which the House had been placed. It was not his intention to vote one way or the other ; his desire was to return the courtesy of the Northern members in electing a Speaker from among the Southern members. Mr. Porter said the power of appointment was not ! sought to be taken from the House, it was simply desired to give the ministry the privilege of nomination. Dr. Monro could only regard it as a virtual surrender. Mr. J. Wakei-ield said the government would make the proposal, and theJHouse woulcMeet the Chairman. Mr. Fousaith concuircd with Dr. Monro that it would be a virtual surrender, and thought it calculated to place the House in a postion to oppose the Governmen. The Speaker being about to put the question the great majority of the members withdrew, after which Mr. Wakefield's amendment, which had the effect of negativing both the original motion and the amendment arising out of that motion, ~was put and carried. Statistical Returns. On the motion of Mr. Mackay, it was agreed that his Excellency the Officer administering the Government be requested to furnish a comparative return, shewing the European population ; also, a comparative return, showing the number of Stock, and a comparative return, showing the quantity of Land (in acres), fenced and cultivated in the Provinces of Auckland, New Plymouth, Nelson, Wellington, Canterbury, and Otago, up to corresponding dates, for the years from 1851 to 1853, inclusive. Shipping Returns. The motion of Mr. Mackay for a comparative return showing the number of vessels, with their tonnage, entered inwards and outwards, in ballast or otherwise,separating the coasting from the foreign, with the value of their cargoes, for duty and free of duty, in the Provinces of Auckland, New Plymouth, Nelson, Wellington, Canterbury, and Otago, up to corresponding dates, for the years from 1851 to 1853, inclusive. Was agreed to. Land Scrip. Mr. LudXiAM, in bringing forward the lengthened motion of which he had given notice the previous day, (Vide • Sothera Cross/ of Friday last) said that though the returns asked were rather long they could easily be made up, and that they would show that the New Zealand Company had granted compensation at the expense of the colony. The returns had not been printed and he wished them to be made public. Mr. Sewell inquired if the hon. member would introduce Nelson, Wanganui, and Taranaki, as he had no objection to add those places. Mr. WAKEriELD thought separate returns would be best. Mr. Crompton was anxious to have returns from Taranaki. Mr. Sewell said it appeared to be the object of the motion to give compensation to some who had not received it. Mr. Ludlam had no intention of bringing forward any claims ; but he was aware some would be brought forward. Mr. Waketield would not have moved for the returns but they would be useful to him in prosecuting claims which he was deeply pledged to press. Executive Government of New Zealand. Leave having been granted, and the House having resolved itself into Committee, Mr. Bartley in the chair, to enable the Bill to read a first time, a somewhat lengthened debate ensued. Mr. Fitzgerald rose to move for a Committee of the whole House to consider whether leave will be granted to introduce a Bill to establish certain offices of the Executive Government of New Zealand, and to amend the provisions of the Constitution Act relating to the Civil List. Mr. Fitzgerald had moved for a Committee of the whole House to lay this Bill before them, and to ask leave to bring in the Bill. A great deal had been said about the provisional character of the Government ; but the nature of this Bill was to enable them to carry Responsible Government into full effect. He had explained this Bill on a former occasion. The officers of Government had hitherto been appointed and paid by the Crown, After what had occurred it must be ob-

vious that the time had arrived to put an end to the Civil List, and to re-enact a Civil List granting to Hei Majesty sufficient sums to pay the officers of Government. It was not necessaiy then to defend all the various items of the Bill, or to justify the creation o1 the new offices of Solicitor General and Secretary oJ Native affairs. He would impress it on the House thai by giving the Governor power to appoint officers from time to time by warrants under his hand, they thereby rendered those officers responsible to this House. He was desirous of calling the attention of the House te the office of Auditor General. This was not a patent office, but held by letter of appointment from the Government. He and his- colleagues considered that it should be made independent of the Governor, as the duty of the Auditor was to state if money had been received and paid according to law or not ; and he should be placed beyond the influence of the Governor or any party. The succeeding clauses of the Bill granted te Her Majesty a certain sum, which would require to be filled up in Committee, and gave the Governor powei over this sum, which was in the nature of a free grant and would not afterwards be under the control of the House. It would be sufficient to inform the House that the Bill was introduced with the consent of the legal adviser of the Crown, and more that such a Bill was expected. (Here the hon. member read various passages of the Constitution Act.) With regard to this sum there was no reservation, although there was with respect to some other sums mentioned. (Here again the hon . member made quotations from Sir John Pakington's despatch.) There was one instance on record to which he would refer. When the Act uniting the two Canadian Provinces was passed, similar powers were conferred, and one of the first Acts of the Canadian Legislature was to alter the Civil List. He thought he had said enough if the House had borne in mind what had been eliminated before. There was one fact which he could not pass over in silence, — that was the granting to Her Majesty a sum to pension such oJ Her servants as might be willing to retire from office. Without that grant this Bill could not pass, as he and his colleagues could not advise his Excellency the Officer administering the Government to consent to the Bill unless retiring allowances were granted. Instructions from home made this imperative ; and, even if it were not so, he and his colleagues should be prepared to advise his Excellency to grant those allowances. Whilst the Home Government expected this Hove te alter the Civil List, it was with the clear and distinct understanding that such retiring allowance should be made. (The hon. member here read a variety of extracts from " The Canadian Policy " of Lord Grey,— which he afterwards laidon the table— in support of his assertion. ) Without going into further detail, he thought he was entitled to an order from the Committee that the Bill should be brought into the House. Mr. Sewell seconded the motion. Mr. Forsaith would wish to know if the hon. member meant the bill to come into immediate operation. Mr. Fitzgerald ; certainly. Mr. Forsaith would in that case feel himself bovine to oppose it. He did not think the bill could legally be carried into operation without first receiving her Majesty's confirmation. Mr. Sewell said the Canadian Civil List was granted by Parliament to her Majesty, and her Majesty could not alter it without consent of Parliament. With New Zealand the case was different as Parliament had giver the power to New Zealand of altering the Civil List. Mr. Gledhill wished to know whether it were intended to create three new offices ? Mr. Fitzgerald replied, it was only one new office that would be created, as the others were already in existence. Mr. Gledhill hoped the house would consider wel] before they granted retiring pensions, and imposed additional and heavy burthens upon an infant and struggling Colony. The expenses already entailed were very great. Mr. Lee assumed that if the retiring pensions were not granted, Responsible Government was not to be i granted. | Mr. Fitzgerald said, nothing like compulsion was intended, but certain provisions must be made. He could not help this state of things ; the instructions > were imperative. If the house refused to grant retiring pensions, the house would have to pass a bill, which would require to be sent home. f Mr. Forsaith did not object to a retiring allowance to officers. The question of carrying the proposed I bill into operation was, with him, one of time : he preferred sending it home for her Majesty's assent. The effect of the bill would be to offer a premium to government officers to elesert their posts; The bill would enable such gentlemen to desert their posts knowing that they were provided for. Mr. Fitzgerald replied. Mr. Merrimax rose on a point of order. The business before the house was being lost sight of, as the only question was whether leave should be given to bring in a bill, not to discuss its merits. Mr. O'Neill said the bill was a question of pound, shillings, and pence, — a question whether au infant colony was to be coerced into pensioning three government officers. To him the bill appeared in the light of a bad bargain ; and a bitter bad bargain it would be for a young colony. The members of this house should husband its means and show their constituents they were guarding their interests. It was as clear as two and two made one, (roars of laughter) that if these officers were useful men they should be retained ; if they were not useful, they ought to retire. lie would oppose the Bill. Mr. Gledhill, who rose amidst cries of order, only wished to ask a question and was told he was out of order. Mr. Crompton said the question before the house was for leave to bring in a bill ; the discussion of that bill should take place in Committee. Mr. Fitzgerald did not object to discussion. With regard to his hon. friend, with the very peculiar arithmetical notions, that the bill was a question that concerned the estimates, he coincided in opinion, and, with the new offices, the estimates might exhibit a decrease. Mr. O'Neill could not allow the bill to slide through the house. Mr. Lee would be glad to see the estimates before the bill was passed. Mr. Fit/oerald had no objection whatever. The estimates were in vourse of preparation, and would shortly be submitted to the house. Mr. Forsaith inquired whether the hon. member (Mr. Fitzgerald) were aware that if the bill were passed the present holders of office would retire. Mr. Fitzgerald could not say. There was nothing compulsory. It would be highly indelicate of him to say that those gentlemen where only waiting for their pensions to retire. It would be at the discretion of Government. Mr. Forsaith said if they were anxious to retire he would not give them a pension. There was room to doubt if the changes would meet the approval of her Majesty. (Cries of no, no.) Mr. Glediiill would be willing to incur a greater expense in the management of native affairs if they were to be conducted openly and above board, and not as they now were shrouded in secrecy and official mystery. No one could learn anything of native affairs. If a person went to one office ho was told that the business did not lie with that department ; and at another he was turned off with an intimation that that was the wrong office. This was a state of things that called for immediate improvement. Dr. Monro hoped the discussion would not be protracted much longer, as, if the house were satisfied that such a bill was necessary, leave to introduce it ought to be given, leaving its details to be discussed in Committee. In reference to the winding up of the preamble he would remark that instead of— "Be it enacted by the General Assembly of New Zealand &c." that the wording ought to be "by the Governor, Legislative Council, and House of Representatives," as the Crown in England was a constituent part of the Government. They were all loyal and hon. gentlemen ; — those on the Ministerial benches, were, no doubt, the perfection of loyalty ; but, still, he thought the wording should be altered. Mr. Sewell said the form of the bill had been agreed upon with the advice of the Attorney-General. He confessed he agreed with that hon. and learned gentleman, and cited the 32nd clause of the Constitution Act in support of his own opinion. Dr. Mon-ro replied. The question having been put and carried, the Chairman reported progress, and Mr. Fitzgerald gave notice he would move that the bill bo read a second time tomorrow. House adjourned.

Thursday, June 22, 1854. The Speaker took the chair at 12 o'clock. After reading prayers; the Speaker informed the House that he was about to proceed immediately to present the address, which had been agreed on by the House, to his Excellency the Officer administering the Government, and should be happy to be accompanied by any gentlemen who chose to attend him. The Speaker then left the House, accompanied by nearly all the members. On his return, he informed the House that his Excellency had been pleased to receive the address. Orders of the Day. Vtr. Carleton withdrew his motion for Returns relative to Customs Duties.

New Zealand Company's DJ>t. Mr. Hart, on moving for the appointment of a Special Committee to inquire into the origin, nature, and extent of the just claim, if any, of theNewZealand Company upon he colony of New Zealand, and that the said Committee be composed of Mr. Forsaith, Major Greenwood, Messrs. King, Ludlam, Macandrew, O'Neill, Picard, Dr. Munro, Mr. Sewell, and the Mover, with power to call for papers and persons, — Report to be brought up on the 20th July, — said, he thought it better, in ovder to open the subject, to obtain the report of the Committee as soon as possible, and to have some slight discussion now, though there was no doubt it would have to be fully discussed at a later period of the session. A charge had been made on the public lands of the Colony of onefourth, to be paid to the New Zealand Company in payment of their debt and interest. It was a question involved in some doubt, whether at the time Parliament fixed this charge on the lands of the colony, it was in possession of the fullest information on the subject ; and if the whole of the evidence relating to the New Zealand Company was not before Parliament when the Act passed, it might not be impossible to get that portion of the Act reconsidered. There are facts which would enable us to claim at least some reduction of the amount of the debt ; but I leave it to the Committee to inquire and report thereon. He hoped they did not come here simply to object to the New Zealand Company's debt. He would scorn, and the constituency he had the honor to represent would scorn to repudiate a just debt. The grounds upon which Parliament had charged the debt on the Colony are disclosed in a correspondence between the New Zealand Company and the Colonial Secretary for the time being. He would not go into details, but state the facts. The Company considered themselves entitled to a certain number of acres of land, which they | asserted they had purchased from the natives ; it was upon the assumption that the Company had extinguished the native title to the land, that the Imperial Government agreed to allow them the quantity claimed. Many | conflicting views had arisen out of that agreement. The Company considered themselves entitled to upwards of a million of acres, which was allowed to them on the ground before stated, that they had extinguished the native title. The ground upon which he asked for investigation, was that at the time (1847) when the debt was charged to the Colony, the Company had sold land, and had repurchased some from private persons. The value of all the lands claimed by them at that time, amounting, at ss. per acre, to upwards of £230,000, and the Company received a loan to that amount from the Government, on condition that if the Company ceased operations within three years, the Government agreed to forgive the debt and take all the liabilities of the Company. Now, the Company had taken land out of that quantity to satisfy its creditors. It had in fact paid its own debt out lands sold to the Government (hear, hear), not merely out of the lands sold to the Government, but out of the best and most available (hear.hear); so that not only are we taxed out of our land fund, but our means are also geatly lessened by the way in which they paid their debts (hear, hear). If the state of the land fund was such that we could sell land at once, the amount might have been paid perhaps ; but after the Company had taken the best lands, and leaving them to finish the Company's surveys, the Company's debt would be found a burthen very much in the way of future operations. But if the debt was proved a just one, pay it ; if it was not a just one, it was against the feelings and principles of Englishmen to pay it. (The hon. member here read several extracts from Blue Books containing correspondence relative to Company's debt). From the extracts just read it would ajpear, that if the Company had sold all their lands, they would still have considered themselves entitled to charge the debt to the Colony (hear, hear). In fact, they could do as they pleased as the debt was secured on the land. We are bound to pay the debt by act of Parliament, but we can protest against its injustice, and when the grounds for passing that act were explained ; he thought Parliament had power to alter it. There is a strong feeling in the minds of the settlers, that the whole of the facts have not been before Parliament, and that is why I ask for inquiry; not that I dispute the legality of the debt ; but are we morally bound to pay it ? If we are not, we will try to get the law altered that imposes it. He had brought the question very imperfectly under the notice of the House, but still he hoped to have been sufficiently clear to satisfy the House of the necessity of appointing a Committee. The hon. mamber resumed his seat amidst loud and continued cheering. Mr. Mackay seconded the motion. Mr. Sewell thought this was not the time for a full discussion of this subject ; but before the session closed he hoped the subject would receive full consideration from that House, when the Committee brought up their report. One only remark he would make. We are about to legislate on the Waste Lands, under the same Act of Parliament that charges us with this debt, and it had been said that, as we took the boon, we ought also silently to pay the debt ; he did not agree with that opinion (hear). The question of the justness of the New Zsaland Company's debt had not been, considered when the Constitution Act was passed, if it had, it would have caused it to be postponed. He considered that Parliament only intended to leave the New Zealand Company in the same position they were before the act passed, At the very time it passed, the Duke of Newcastle in the Lords, and Sir Wm. Molesworth in the Commons, were threatening the Company with inquiry into the justness of the debt. He thought the Imperial Parliament meant to leave it to the Colonial Parliament to examine into the claims of the New Zealand Company. Mr. E. G. Wakefield, as an old Director of the New Zealand Compiny, had a better acquaintance than any other hon. member with the affairs of the Company, He should be happy to supply the Committee with all the information he possessed, in fact to place himself at their disposal. Mr. Porter, wished to call attention Wthe fact, that if any debt was due, it was a question whether it should be charged to the Northern Province. Mr. Hart, considered it would be better to dofer that question for the present. Motion put and carried. Liyht Houses. Mr. Rhodes, moved for a Select Committee to inquire as to what steps have been taken with reference to the erection of a Lighthouse at Port Nicholson, to enquire as to the most practical and speediest means of erecting the same, and to report to the house. Committee to consist of Messrs. Revans, E. G. Wakefield, Porter, and Macandrew.— Seconded by Mr. Mackay. Mr. WAKEriELD moved, as an amendment, that instructions "be given to the Select Committee on Harbours, &c, to inquire and report as to what steps have been taken with reference to the election of a Lighthouse at Port Nicholson. Amendment carried. Lands at Olago. Mr. Cargill moved, that the Officer Administering the Government be requested to furnish a return of all lands sold by the Government in the Province of Otago, since the retirement of the New Zealand Company ; the amount received for such lands, and in what manner such monies have been expended. Also, the number of acres of Waste Lands still remaining unsold, to which the native title has been extinguished ; also, the number of acres selected by land orders issued by Land and Emigration •Commissioners, and New Zealand Company respectively Seconded by Mr. Macandrew. — Carried. Emigration. Mr. Hart, wished to enquire of the hon. member for the Wairau, whether it is in contemplation by the Government to make any provision for re-embursing or compensating in land, expenses incurred by families in bringing domestic servants to the Colony. Mr. Weld, could not undertake to state, at this period of the session, that the Government were prepared to legislate on the subject. Mr. Fitzgerald said, the Provinces would be able to legislate on this subject in their emigration regulations. Public Reserves, Otago. Mr. Wortley, wished to ask the head of the Executive in this house, what has been the final answer of the Government regarding the use of the site called Moray Place in the town of Dunedin, and what was the opinion on the subject given by the Attorney-General. He said, that happening to be in Otago before the meeting of the Council, he had been requested to bring the matter before the house. He did not mean to express any opinion of his own upon the subject. And should be regulated by the information which he now sought, as to whether or not he should present a petition which had been entrusted to him, to the house. Mr. Fitzgerald, in reply, said, that there were two distinct questions involved in the motion, by the hon. member. As to the first, he stated that the Executive Government has finally declined to grant the site in question, and read an extract from the Colonial Secretary's despatch to Mr. Mantell, to the effect that the square has been laid off from the beginning as an open space— that it was the property ot the public ; and that on these grounds, coupled with the strong remonstrances of the Otago representatives, His Excellency could not comply with the request of the applicants. With respect to the opinion of the Attorney General, he remarked, that it was quite unwise to repeat such opinion, excepting in peculiar circumstances ; and he was sure that his hon. friend would see jit once, the impropriety of his

<-Vung so The whole question of reserves were to be dealt -with in the mannpT about to be brought forward by the Government, which would place them under the absolute control of the Provincial authorities. Mr. Cargill said, he was glad in one sense, that the notice of motion which appeared for some time in the name of the hon. member for the Christchurch country district had been dropped, as it might needlessly have involved expense, and occupied the time of the house to no purpose, inasmuch as the matter to which the motion related, had been set at rest by the concurrence of the General Executive Government in the almost unanimous decision come to by the Provincial Council of Otago on this subject. On the other hand, he regretted that the correspondence in question had not been laid on the table, as it would have exhibited the conduct of certain parties in Otago in a light which this house could not otherwise credit. Had the hon. member had the courtesy to have mentioned his intention of moving in this matter, to any of the members for the Province of Otago, every facility would have been given for the acquisition of information on thi» matter, in fact, the cream of the correspondence was in their possession. Before sitting down, he would observe, that the members of the Church of England in Otago, so far from having been treated with feelings of hostility by their fellow settlers of other persuasions, were actually offered two land orders, which would have insured as good a site as the one applied for, in the very square in question. Executive Government Bill. On the motion of Mr. Fitzgerald, this bill was read a first time ; and gave notice he would move that it be read a second time, to-morrow week. Mr. Sewell, on moving that a Committee be appointed to enquire and report as to what are, or ought to be the privileges pi this house, or oi the members thereof, the Committee to consist of Mr. E. G. Wakefield, Mr. Hart, Mr. Carleton, Mr. Bartley, Mr. Merriman, Mr. Picard, and the mover. — Report to be brought up on Wednesday, 28th instant ; said, after the many discussions in the house on the question of Privilege, it was needless for him to offer any remarks on the necessity for appointing this Committee. Mr. Weld seconded the motion. — Carried. Council adjourned till to-morrow at 12 o'clock.

Friday, June 23, 1854. The Speaker took the Chair at noon. The Speaker laid on the table a Return of thd amount of the additional duty of one shilling per gallon on spirits. Notices of Motion. Mr. Pouter, to inquire, on Tuesday the 27th June, of the hon. members who represent the Government in this house, if it be their intention to bring in a bill during the Session for the prevention of bribery at elections. Also, if it be their intention to bring in a bill to alter, amend, or repeal the Native Land Purchase Ordinance. Mr. Mackay, to move, on Tuesday the 27th June, that it be an instruction to the Committee on Steam Navigation to report generally on the subject, as a means to the improvement and developement of the natural resources of the Colony. Mr. C. J. Taylor, to move, for copies of the Plans of the Pensioner Settlement District, and a copy of the Plan of the Southern Division, which plans are referred to in paragraphs 3 and 5, of schedule A, annexed to the Proclamation dated sth March, 1853, also for copies of the Electoral Roll for those districts for 1853. Mr. OBrien, to move, on Tuesday the 27th Junf% that the names of Messrs. Bacot and Lee, be added to the Committee for consid?ration of the introduction of Vaccination amongst the natives. Mr. E. G. Wakefield, to move, on "Wednesday, tho 28th June-, 1854, that a Select Committee be appoinced to inquire whether or not, in justice, the Province of Auckland ought to be at once relieved from bearing any portion of the New Zealand Company's debt. To consist of Mr. Fitzgerald, Mr. Macandrew, Mr. Wortley, Mr. Mackay, Mr. Porter, and the mover. Mr. Wakefield hoped, that in giving notice of this I motion, the house would indulge him by allowing him to say he had abstained from holding any consultation with any gentleman representing the North. He thought that it might be more agreeable to them for a Southern member to start this question. ' Mr. E. G. Wake field, to move-, on Wednesday, the 28th June, that a Resolution declaratory of the opinion of this house, that amongst the subjects which most urgently demand the attention of the General Assembly and the Executive Government, with a view to the earliest possible result in practice, there is none of greater importance than the establishment, at whatever may be the indispensable cost, of quick and regular communication by Steam Vessels amongst the Provinces, and more especially with relation to the operation j of the General Government for the Colony. Mr. Carletox, to move, on Wednesday, the 28th June, that an Address be presented to his Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, requesting a return of all correspondence between the New Zealand Government and the Home Government, on the subject of the Judgment of the Supreme Court; in the case of the Queen v. Clarke. On the same day — To move, that a Return be laid upon the table, shewing from what Land Sales in the Province of Auckland, up to this date, the sums of money claimed under Imperial Acts by the New Zealand Company have arisen, distinguishing the L-mds so sold which, were purchased and paid for by the Government, from Lands so sold which were purchased by private parties from the original native owners, and have been claimed by the said parties as their property. On the- same day — To move, that an Address be presented to his Excellency the Officer Administering the Government, requsiting a Return of all correspondence between Governor Grey and the Colonial Office on the subject of the publication in the 'Southern Cross' of Governor Grey's letter to the Bishop of New Zealand, dated August 30th, 1847, excepting such portions of that correspondence as have been already printed in the Blue Book. Mr. Carletox then put the following question to the hon. gentleman at the head of the Government, viz., whether the Compensation Scrip to the New Zealand Company's settlers (referred to in the 4th clause of the Waste Lands Bill), — which it is proposed to give to these settlers, — is intended to be made available in the Province of Auckland. Mr. Fitzgerald said, that whatever the existing contract might be found to be, the Government had no intention to alter it. Mr. Forsaith, intimated that this was a notice of motion. Mr. Carletox said, that this was no answer. The nature of the existing contract was a moot point, and he had put the question for the very purpose of throwing light upon it. Mr. Fitzgerald said, that he had purposely worded his answer, so as to leave the question where it was. Mr. Fitzgerald gave notice that on Tuesday he would move a second reading of the Executive Government Bill ; and ask for leave to bring in a bill for tha purpose of defining the portion of revenues to be set apart for the General and Provincial Governments. And, on Wednesday, he would ask leave foT a second reading of the Government of Provinces Bill. On Friday, he would bring forward the Waste Lands Bill ; and, on Thursday, the Empowering Bill, provided the other business was not too pressing on those days. Dr. Lee was desirous of knowing whether the Estimates were to be laid on the table before a second reading of the Executive Government Bill. Mr. Fitzgerald did not know that the house wished to see the Estimates before the second reading of the Bill. He had no intention to hurry the bill through the house. The Estimates should be laid on the table before going into final Committee on the Executive Government Bill. Address to Her Majesty. Mr. Fitzgerald, in moving the Address to Her Majesty, did not intend to offer any remarks, as the motion on which it had been founded had met with the unanimous approbation of the House. He hoped and believed that the Address had been bo worded as to insure the concurrence of every member. Mr. Weld seconded the motion. Mr. Forsaith had no intention to vote against the the adoption of the Address, but he wished it to be distinctly understood that he did not pledge himself as an approver of all the wording of that Address. He excepted to that part which treated of Responsible Government. Dr. Monro rose to state that his own objections were almost identical with those of the previous speaker. lie had formerly stated his belief that Ministerial Responsibility had not been contemplated by the Constitution Act ; at 'the same time he had admitted that the Constitution did" not prohibit its introduction. Having already expressed this opinion, and holding it still, he could not vote for the Address, although he would not oppose it ; the exceptions he took were precisely those alluded to by the hon. member for the Northern Division. Mr. Forsaith would beg to withdraw his pledge to vote for the Address. Mr. Fitzgerald considered it to be a matter of the utmost importance that the first Address of this House to Her Majesty should be an unonimous one. To a'tain that object, he would meet the views of the two hon. members by withdrawing the words to which-their' exceptions had been taken. In dping so ? he did act fuj

ii mamsnt givo up the principle that the point should have been stated in the Addiess. Dr. MoNiio, as far as be was concerned, would rather hat the res/,0 isible Advisors of his Excellency should address her Majesty, though it was his belief that Mint erial llesponsib lity wai not contemplated under the Act. Mr. Wakefield said, — If the hon. member knew as much of the making of the Constitution as he did, he would not be surprised that Ministerial Responsibility was not expressly alluded to. It had been framed by many hands. He d d not think it had not been contemplated ; but to obviate any difficulty, and to meet the views of the dissentient members, he -would suggest that t he words "fulfilled its spirit and" be struck out. Mr. Fitzgerale would readily erase those words. Mr. Monro would then vote for the Address. The following is the Address, as amended, and which was put and carried unanimously. 11 May it please your Majesty, — " We your Majesty's loyal and faithful subjects the Commons of New Zealand, in their House of Rep:esei.tit'ves assembled, desire to approach your Majesty, to lay before you the homage of our devoted attachment to your Majesty's crown and person. " We feel it our bounden duty upon the occasion of this the first meeting of the Parliament of New Zealand, to express to your Majesty our gratitude for the restoration of our ancient constitutional privileges, and to convey to your Majesty our confident assurance that the ties of attachment between this colony and the Imperial Government will be thereby strengthened, and the united interests of both races of your Majesty's subjects in New Zealand promoted, consolidated, and based on a lasting foundation. "We cannot refrain from expressing to your Majesty our heartfelt satisfaction at the manner in which this great work has been inaugurated by his Excellency the Officer administering your Majesty's Government in this Colony, who by convening the General Assembly has given complete effect to the Constitution granted to this Colony by your Majesty and parliament, and by the admission of the principle of ministerial responsibility, has provided foi its secure and harmonious operation. "We earnestly pray that it may please Almighty God to vouchsafe to your Majesty a long and happy reign, secure in the allegiance and affection of your subjects, not only of Great Britain, but of that vast Colonial Empire which he has committed to your charge." Mr. Fitzgerald, rose to move, that the Address be engrossed, and a copy transmitted to her Majesty through his Excellency the Officer Administering the Government ; but, upon a suggestion that the Address should be transmitted direct, he withdrew his motion for the present. Public Reserves. Mr. Sf.well rose to ask leave for introducing a Bill •on the subject of Public Reserves. The Bill had been printed, and was in the hands of hon. members. (No, no.) Mr. Fitzoehvld said, it was by no means necessary to the introduction of a bill that it should be printed. Such, of his own knowledge, was not the practice of the House of Commons. [A number of copies of the Bill were then distributed to hon. members, after which Mr. Sewell entered into a full explanation of the objects for which it was framed.] There were certain lands, said Mr. Sewell, set apart for public purposes throughout the Colony. The legal title to the greater part of .those lands still remained vested in the Crown. In 'general, they were ill regulated, and he might say unregulated. It must be obvious for many reasons that those lands required to be placed under a better management than they hitherto had been. It was therelore, in the first place, proposed to deal with those lands that remained in the hands of the Crown, it being distinctly admitted that the bill was designed to have effect only upon those lands remaining in the hands of her Majesty, and not upon lands already granted. There was no doubt that the house possessed the power to deal with those lands. The bill was framed with the view to the management of lands of local concern not with those pertaining to the General Government of the Colony, The title of Government Domain for instance, would be substituted for some of more appropriate application. Lands for the purposes of military defence, for the Customs, and such like, would be placed upon a different footing. But for the transference of local lands, the Superintendent of Provinces would be constituted a Corporation, regulated by the advice of the Provincial Executive Councils, and without the power of alienating land for any term "beyond three years without the sanction of his Provincial Council. No transaction wouM be valid or acknowledged without being sealed with the Provincial seal. The profits derived from such lands would be placed under the control of the Provincial Councils, to be dealt with as ordinary revenue. The hon. member preceeded to explain the several intents and objects of the bill at great length. With respect to the Public Lands of Auckland, the only knowledge of a Reserve was that which appeared to be gathered from a blot upon a map ; beyond that, no one seemed to know any thing about them. The bill to be introduced would make the matter no worse. At Otago, they had created a sort of imperium in imperio, to acquire a proper management •of their Reserves. And at Canterbury they were in a still more vexatious position — they were at law. After an able explanation, which elicited the hearty • approval of the members for Otago, leave was given to " introduce the bill, which was read a first time, with a notice, to move, that it be read a second time on Wednesday. Suspension of Standing Otders. Mr. Hart moved that Rule No. 93, and other rules, " might be suspended. His o"bject in doing so was to enable him to lay a memorial — not a petition — before the House. He admitted there was some slight irregularity in the framing of the memorial, but as it was impossible to renew it during the present session, arid as, if Te'dress to the memorialist were afforded, thatTedress would be much more valuable now than at a future period, he trusted the House would sanction the suspension. Mr. Macakdrew seconded the motion, which was agreed to, and the memorial of J. W. Shand, lately SubCollector at Otago, was read. Mr. Hart spoke to his personal knowledge of the high character for honour and integrity, and ability of the memorialist, who had, for some time after the suspension of Mr. Hogg, discharged the duties of Collector of Customs at Wellington, and moved that the Memo- ' rial be received. Mr. Macandrrw seconded the motion ; and spoke in strong terms confirmatory of the character given by Mr. Hart of Mr. Strand, who he considered had been dealt with very hardly by their former Governor. Had not a situation been wanted for Mr. Blackmore, nothing would have been heard about Mr. Shand. Mr. Fitzgerald regretted that he must be placed in the ungracious position of opposing the memorial's being received under its present form. It asked the House to relieve the memorialist from the payment of a sum of money. If the memorial were presented to the Officer administering the Government, the papers could be moved for, and brought under the consideration of the House. Mr. Macandrew intimated that Mr. Shand's securities were liable for the loss of the money, which they would pay. It was with respect to the deprivation of his situation that the consideration of the House was desired. Mr. Bartley said, as the Standing Orders had been suspended, the objection to receiving the memorial had no weight. Mr. Fitzgerald again remarked that, if the memorial were forwarded to his Excellency, hon. gentlemen would move for the production of the papers the next vday. The suggestion of Mr. Fitzgerald was ultimately agreed to. Chairmanship of Committees. On the motion for ad journment'being put, Mr. Carleton rose an said : — I trust that the House, having disposed of the orders of the day, will accord indulgence to a few words of personal explanation. 'I rise to abandon all claim to the office of Chairman of Committees to tJtiis hon. House, sincerely hoping that this abandonment may eventually prove to have "been in favour of my friend and opponent, the hon. and learned member for the Suburbs,— a gentleman so highly qualified, both by acquirement and natural ability, for that very responsible position. In calling him my opponent, I have used a term which is scarcely accurate. Neither he nor I •would ever have contended against the other, had either of us been aware, at the first, that the other was likely to be brought forward. Indeed, my hon. and learned friend, when made aware that I was in the field, at once offered to retire, but was not permitted to do so by the hon. and gallant member who proposed him. I also should have offered to make way for him, but for a reason which will probably be held sufficient. Having been the first proposed, not only within the walls of this House, but originally also without these walls, I was under a strong impression that the amendment to the motion of the hon. member for the Hutt was a party move, — that it was based on personal objections to myself, arising from my strenuous opposition to the election 6f a military Superintendent, and my frequent denunciation of the torrent of invective which was being poured out upon the rhal candidate. The hon. and gallant member for the Pensioner Settlements has stated since that I was in error ; and his assertion is of course conclu.yve, so far, at least, as regards himself. But, sir, being under that impression, it was impossible to re-

treat, consistently with due Respect to myself. ( I never did retreat, on any occasion yet, and never will retreat on any occasion to come, so long as I have breath. Now, however, that the House has relieved me from this difficulty, by taking the proposal out of the hands of the lion, and gallant member, and throwing it into the hands of the ministry, I am free to retire, and in my turn to relieve the ministry from the embarrassment which they appear to feel. Upon this part of the question lam bound to say, that I myself, assuming what I certainly had no right to assume, that the ministry would have placed me preferably in the chair, I recommended one among them not to interfere with the question, in a ministerial capacity, at all, stating at the same time the regret that I should feel, did they run the slightest risk of being placed in a minority, at so early a period of their career, on my account. I shall not trespass further upon the indulgence of the House, but content myself with remarking that I was not fully alive to the false position in which I had placed myself, to the loss of caste I had incurred, by contesting, what I considered as an honour — and let it here be distinctly understood that I contested nothing but the honour ; — I was not fully alive to the loss of caste I had incurred, until it was seriously— seriously, I say— proposed to me, yesterday, after the adjournment of the House, that I should settle the quesion by tossing up for office with my hon. and learned friend ; as if I were clinging to every chance j for that, which from the beginning I had never taken one single active step to secure. Sir, I now have settled the question, so far as I am personally concerned, but in a manner far more respectful to the House. (Cheers.) Indeed, sir, I was much offended, though for a moment only ; but very much more grieved, and am so still, at having been so utterly misunderstood. (Hear.) I conclude by returning my grateful thanks to the hon. member for the Hutt, who first proposed my name— to the hon. member for the city, whose address to this House upon a late occasion will never be effaced from my mind ; and to the other hon. member for the city, my seconder. They have won for me — under the circumstances it has really'been victory — they have won for me the utmost I could have desired. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Baiitley could corroborate one observation which had fallen from his honourable friend. He was himself aware that the hon. member for the Bay of Islands had always considered the Chairmanship of Committees as a merely honorary office and that the position in the House was what he had looked to. Mr. "\Vak-efield4 — It becomes my duty to add to the statement of the hon. and learned member (Mr. Bartley), that on the first occasion when this appointment became a topic of conversation between my hon. friend (Mr. Carleton) and me, he spoke of the office as likely to be unpaid, stated his readiness to serve it gratuitously, and and altsgether impressed me with the idea that his only object, if he became a candidate, would be what is called "the honor of the thing." Mr. Fitzgerald said that it was he who had jocosely proposed that the hon. members should toss for the office. There were others again who had proposed that they should fight it -out ; whilst another suggestion had been hinted that the most effectual operation would be to assassinate each other. Where the merits of the respective gentlemen were so equally balanced he must confess he could not discover anything so very undignified in the course he had pursued. Mr. Memuman spoke at some length in reply to the statement of his hon. friend, whose sentiments he cordially reciprocated. They had long been intimate friends. He was happy that his (Mr. Carleton' s) mind had been disabused of the impression that he (Mr. Merriinan) had been brought forward in opposition to him. Their sentimmts on all the -leading topics of politics were alike, ana their views on almost all the great public questions had been nearly identical. He hoped and believed that their friendship would remain unabated and unshaken throughout his (Mr. Carleton's} residence in the Colony. He had consented to be nominated for the office of Chairman of Committees without the slightest knowledge that Mr. Carlton had been proposed. He believed that he (Mr. M.) was the first in the field ; but he had been perfectly willing to resign in favour of his friend. He trusted the ministeis might cast aside any claims he might be supposed to have, and make their selection from the whole House. After a few remarks from Major Greenwood and Mr. Forsaith, the House adjourned till Tuesday (this day), at ]2 o'clock.