HOUSE OF COMMONS.— February 1.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume V, Issue 211, 6 July 1849, Page 3

HOUSE OF COMMONS.— February 1.

Lord John Russell began by expressing his sympathy with Mr. Disraeli's regret for the loss of Lord George Bentinck, and himself paid a tribute to the memory of Mr. Charles Buller ; and after defending the ministerial policy in Ireland, and controverting Mr. Disraeli's statistics which he declared unintelligible, proceeded to combat that gentleman's opinions on the position of the ministry. (Mr. Disraeli seemed to suppose that we had yielded to representations which had appeared in public, addressed to the Financial Association of Liverpool, by the hon. member for the West Riding of Yorkshire. Now, Sir, my opinion is entirely against the opinions contained in that representation. I think, whatever deduction of augmentation you might make, to take the year 1835 or any other fixed year for many years past, and to say that you will square your estimates and fix your establishments according to the expenditure of that year, would be, with great deference to the honourable gentleman, an extremely irrational course of proceeding. (Cheers from both sides of the House.) In the first place, it is obvious that your requirements may be very different ; in the next place, any one who will look at the Finance Accounts, or the votes of the year, will see that there have been some four or five millions added to our expenditure on grounds which have nothing to do with any increase of our armies. And therefore, in fact, if you take off ten millions, instead of having the same established, we shall have some five millions less than in J835. Again, lam not sure that even in 1835 the establishment was fixed precisely according to the exigencies of the country. I need not touch that point, because I decline to debate the subject altogether ; but it must be assumed by the honourable gentleman, that in 1835 there was proposed the precise estimate which ought to have been made : and then our possessions, for which we have to furnish troops, are very much increased since 1835. In one colony alone, which we have acquired since 1835, I think there were last year 1,800 men of the infantry of the Line. Of course, if you were to take the rule of 1835, you must have certain garrisons diminished below what they were in that year, in order to supply the garrisons of the new colonies you have acquired. lam sure any gentleman engaged in commerce, manufactures, or farming, would never think of adopting such a principle for the conduct of his own business. But, Sir, while 1 disagree with the opinions of the honourable gentleman, — and though I think there are flaws in his letter upon the subject which rather throw discredit upon his common sense, for he 6ays that ten millions was a good sum in former years, and is sufficient for the purposes of the present ; and whea he speaks thus, I think it is clear that he has framed his statement, not according to what the exigencies of the public services require, but in a way which he thinks public meetings will be likely to agree with and to applaud, when they will not listen to a detailed state* ment by which a smaller sum might be saved, but which would be really founded upon a practical and

business-like estimate of our present necessities ;— at the same time, when 1 we had to consider the question of our establishments. I think it was obvious that we could not persevere in the course we felt ourselves bound to take last year. There was a sudden and formidablr convulsion in various parts of Europe, and no one could say what might be its issue. We did not think we should be justified, under those circumstances, in proposing to diminish our expenditure. We nsked for the same number of men for the Navy and Army for which we had asked at tue commencement of the session, although we had not the ways and meaus sufficient for that establishment. The House supporled us in that course ; they declared, by large majorities, that it was not expedient to reduce our military establishment. But, Sir, when we had again to consider that subject — when we had again to consider the question of the Estimates exceedinu the amount of revenue, it was our duty, I think, to come to one of two conclusions, — either to reduce those Estimates, and to bring them within the amount of re* venue, or, on the other hand, lo attempt to raise the revenue to the level of our expenditurai It was not fitting to go on every other year increasing the public debt of the country without a prospect of the expenditure being equalized with the revenue. Now, Sir, the first course was evidently the best, supposing it to be a justifiable and practicable course. Upon that subject we had to consider, first whether j there were not many reforms which might be made, many retrenchments which might be effected, with- ■ out impairing the numbers and efficiency of our 1 military establishments. The Committee which sat last year upon our Naval and Military Expenditure and for the appointment of which (not my own ori« ginal proposition, I must confess) the House is indebted to the honourable Member for Montrose— showed that, as regarded the N .vy at least, useful retrenchment might be made without impairing the efficiency of the service. There then was one source of economy ; but that was not enough to bring our expenditure within the limits I have stated. We had then further to consider whether our effective force could be reduced. Now, in considering that subject, we had to remember, that since we had been in office we had added 3,000 men to the number voted for the Nayy — we had added 5,000 to the number voted for the Artillery. We came therefore to the conclusion, that, in the preseut state of Europe, we might safely make some reduction which would afford a considerable amount of saving without impairing the force below that which is necessary for the efficiency of the public service which was necessary for the defence of our numerous colonies and possessions. Whether we have done wisely in that respect — whether the reductions that we propose come within the principle I have stated — whether we have carried them too far, or have not gone far enough — will be proper questions for this House to consider when the Estimates shall come before it, and when those of our coU leagues who are charged with the various departments shall state their views of the exigencies of the service, and the sums we propose to be taken. But this I will say, that we have fixed them upon the scale of what we think will be wanted for the present year ; we have not selected them with reference to any particular past year, or said that our expenditure must be squared according to the estimates of that one year." •' The disposition of recent Governments in France to curtail enlistments and not to increase their forces, is one reason why I think it will be safe to propose no greater estimates than those we propose for the present year. And Ido trust, W spite of the denunciations contained in this proposed amendment, that the various nations of Europe, however they may settle their internal af* fairs Twill, by the progress of negotiation and in process of time, come to the conclusion that war must be injurious so them all, and that there is no cause sufficient why one State should be the aggreßsor against another. (Cheers). If such sentiments should prevail — if each power is left to make its own arrangements with respect to its own internal constitution — then I should say that the reductions of the present year might be followed out in future years. It wyuld be exceedingly unwise and imdrudent to make any great and sudden reduction at once ; but gradual reductions — reductions made with a view to what is called in the Speech a wise economy, will be a policy which, I trust, this country may be abls to pursue, which, would be for her own interest and for that of every country in Europe. Now, Sir, I do not contend that there is no cause for anxiety in the present state of the world. lam far from thinking that those revolutions which took place last year have run their course, and that each state is now in the enjoyment of assured security and tranquillity. I rejoice as much as any man that the ancient empire ot Austria, an old ally of this country, should have been recovering her splendour, and should have shown her strength in so conspicuous a manner ; but many questions with respect to the Austrian empire, of great difficulty — questions with respect to the internal constitution of Prussia — questions with regard to the formation of what the honourable gentleman called an empire without an emperorare Btill unsettled, and we are not sure what may be the ultimate event. In fact, there has been, within the last year, first, an excessive apprehen« sion, caused by the events which had taken place ; then there has been rtsing up here and there some wild theory, pretending to found the happiness of a state and of mankind upon visionary maxims and unsound speculations, which can never Becure the welfare of any state or country. We have, indeed, seen that those hopes were unwise, and that the issue did not answer the expectations which had been formed in the case of many countries of Europe. No one could say that events might not, at some unforeseen moment, take a course unpropitious for the maintenance of European peace. But still I do think that the tima which has elapsed since the first outbreak of these revolutions has tended to make men consider more soberly what is the value of real freedom, and what is the value of peaco in the world, to be set agasnst political change, and how much may be sacrificed, and ought to be sacrificed. " In the mean time, Sir, I do appeal agaivst this proposed disarmament, not by aay carping at the particular terms which may be used, nor by going into a minute defence of every act of the Govern, ment, but as feeling generally what has been happening around us, and what is our present state. We have gone through a commercial convulsion, arising chiefly from a wild spirit of speculation. Is our trade at the present moment shaken to the dust, or is it true that it is reviviug ? Is it true or

not that it is assuming a healthy tone, and muy we rot hope that it will take its usual course to a state uf r^tored prosperity ? We have put down what, ,i spite of the honouiable Member for Meath. I -luatcallan insurrection in Ireland: tranquillity .is been restored. Has tl.is object been effected y any sanguinary measures ? has it been restored ,y aiming one class of the population against another, and by fixirg upon Ireland a permanent state of civil war, which would be incalculably worse than a transitory insurrection ? I reply boldly that it bas not, I reply, that my noble friend at the head of the Government of Ireland shnwtd vigour and energy ; he showed also that which is still more rare linn vigour and energy — he showed singular judgment, temperance, and forbearance ; he showed himself averse from the first to anything like setting jlats against class, or the infliction of sanguinary i.ji.ishmenta. Well, Mr, I say again, this country Us been menaced by those who, as in other countries, would, foa the sake of plunder, have disturbed the whole order of society. I ask, have not they oeen defeated in their machinations ? have not they bern defeated by the usual exercise of law, as regular, and at the same time as firm and merciful in i'.s proceedings, as was consistent with the constitution of this country ? i^Cbeers). I ask, has this country been involved in foreign hostilities — has there ever been any danger of H-> Has not peace in Europe been preserved by this couutry ; and as regards other powers, have we not shown our disposition at least to guarantee terms which would be honourable to the contending parties, rather than to mix in the fray and excite those various powers to conflict and war. (Cheers). If I can say that these things are true,— if I am not to be contra* dieted as to the facts, admitting as I do that with respect to the greater portion of them the highest oraise is to be given to the energies, the prudence, and the wisdom of this mighty people.— yet Ido ■^y, if such be the' results, thet the Government wliich bab been at the head of affairs at least derives this, not to be condemned on the first night of c session."