LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. FIItDAY, OCTODER 15, 1847.

Daily Southern Cross, Volume 3, Issue 123, 30 October 1847, Page 3

LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL. Firday, October 15, 1847.

sent:— The Governor, and all the Members, ■xcept Mr. Domett. f'linutes of last meeting were read and confirmed. he Attorney General, in moving the second ling of Waka Nene's Annuity Bill, stated, that thought it unnecessary to occupy time in offering remarks on it, as Wakas services were univer7 admitted, and he ought now to have a £üb» "■al recognition of lii 3 claims, 'he Governor stated that an application had been ' c at the last meeting for Ihe despatch upon eh this Bill is founded—he had since referred to Gazettes, and found that the despatch in ques* ii dated sth December, 1845, had not been pubed — as it referred to military operations, which ht not to be made public. — Extracts however, "f as they relate to Wakas Annuity, had been k| and which he then laid on the table.

Mr. Brown stated, that the extract from the despatch in question conveyed a different impres- ! sion to what it had apparently done to His Excellency, he (Mr. Brown) understood from it that Her ! Majesty's Government intended out of British funds to pay an annuity to Waka, instead of calling upon the coloniuts to do it themselves. He (Mr. B.) entertained the highest estimation of the services which Waka had rendered to Her Majesty's Troops during the disturbances in the North — and this ieeling was shaied by the community generally— indeed the propriety of presenting him with some testimonial of their esteem had oftener than once been mooted, but always deferred in expectation of the Government taking up the matter, and making some liberal provision — and he (Mr. Brown) was greatly disappointed, not more with the paltry amount of £52. than with the request made to the colonists for the payment thereof. The hon. member contended that the war was altogether one of British interests, it was brought on and maintained, not for any purpose connected with the settlers, but to uphold the Queen's sovereign authority, — and he did not see how the small number of colonists here could be called upon or expected to make provision for services of such a character, and which ought to be so liberally requited. As he had already stated, the settlers were most willing and anxious to see some recompense made to this chief for his great services, but they would rather do so voluntarily, and pay £5 in this way than they would as many shillings by compulsion. He thought moreover, that it was a bad precedent to establish in this way a pension list in New Zealand — if once commenced, he could not see where it might end. The settlers in the South (whose representative he was sorry was not present) he doubted not, would object — and with good reason — to pay a chare of pensions to chiefs in the northern end of the island, for the assistance they may have given us — and on the other hand the settlers here would be equally unwilling to pay for pensions in the came way to chiefs in the New Zealand Company's districts for assisting to put down the little wars already existing, and those likely to spring up under the new arrangements, which Her Majesty's Government have made with the New Zealand Company, through whose proceeding 11 , regardless of Natiye rights, so many disturbances have already sprung up. Another objection which he (Mr. Brown) had to the present measure was, that it did not go far enough — ■ as there were many other chiefs who had an equal claim upon the Government with Waka. In particular he would mention Moses Tawhai, through whose interference (it was generally believed) our troops had been saved such another signal reverse as they had met with at Owaiowai. There were besides Win. Waka, Patuone, Repa, and John Hobbs, every one of whom had rendered greater services than another, and deserved some substantial recompense as well as Waka Nene, so that if once begun with one, it was difficult to stop short without embracing all — or if not, it would give offence to the natives themselves. But as there could be no doubt that these Natives were all entitled to be rewarded for their conduct, he (Mr. Brown) thought that the British Government ohould at once come forward iv a liberal manner worthy of the country and of the occasion, instead of ihrowing the burden upon a small number of colonists, wholly unable to make an adequate recompense, and at the same time under comparatively little obligation to do so under the circumstances. The Governor confessed that his position gave him great pain : he was frequently compelled to hear sentiments, and that too, upon presumed statements of factt — htutful to his own feelings and to the reputation of others ; and he could say that it was with feelings of sorrow, rather than of pleasure and pride, that he every day entered this Council. It had now been asserted that Colonel Despard had been prevented by the interference of a native chief from attacking the native camp at Ruapekapeka, the ! night previous to the successful surprise, and thereby to have saved our troops from another serious disaster ; but this assertion on behalf of that gallaut officer, he utterly denied ; — that statement was positively untrue, and it was most painful to hear of such an assertion. It had been made before, and had been contradicted. He (the Governor) had been consulted on the occasion referred to, and from his own knowledge," he could assert that the statements of Colonel Despard having been prevented making the attack on Rurpekapeka, .s alleged, were positively untrue. He would not however, undervalue the services of the native chiefs, nor had they been overlooked by the Government. A house for Walker's accommodation had been erected at the Bay of Islands out of British funds, and he had received other marks of approbation besides. He admitted that Moses Towhai had also rendered great services to the Government, and he would be happy to see him amply rewarded, as well as the other chiefs who hjd been referred to. He would not however, place their services in the game level with those of Thomas Walker ; the other chiefs themselves looked up to him as a superior, and he did not therefore think that a pension to him would be viewed with jealouey by the others. For that reason he had only introduced the name of Walker in the Bill, thinking thit the others should merely re» ceive such sums as the Government from time to time might think judicious. He could not agree with the hon. member, that the services of the chiefs we're for British objects alone ; indeed, they might rather be said to be altogether of a colonial nature, and ought therefore most properly to come out of tbe colonial revenue. He thought there was no | fear ot this iustance forming a precedent, as there j was now such a force in the country that the natives were not likely to have the same power again. He thought that such pensions would have an excellent effect upon the natives generally, in inducing others to earn them by imitating the example ot Walker ; indeed, his conduct had already 'produced good effects upon others ; and he believed that Auckland had owed its preservation to his exertions and influence ; and every one ought to feel deeply grateful to him. It was therefore with surprise that he now heard any objection made to conferring a small annuity on one to whom they were so deeply indebted. He was besides, prepared to defend the policy of small rewards upon general grounds, as they were calculated to exert a most beneficial influence upon the natives, in binding them the more closely to us by the ties of interest and esteem. He would rebut, almost with indignation, thechaige of parsimony by the British Government in reference to New Zealand ; eveiy colonist would admit; that the aid of Great Britain had been noble in the extreme when called upon to help the Colony out ot its difficulties,

Tne Colonial Secretary deprecated in the strongest manner the charges which had been made against v most gallant officer engaged in active service i.i thb Colony. Colonel Despard had undertaken the command of the troops at a time when it required no small amount of skill and energy, and after suffering all the privations which he hud endured in attempting to put an end to a protracted and sanguinary war — to be aspersed as he had been by a member of this Council, was but a poor recompense for his service. But these services had been duly nppreciated by those best able to judge of Lis merits, and the statements of the hon. mem'ier can have no weight in depreciating- them. It wa3 true that ihe services and advice ef the native chiefs had been of the greatest advantage during the war, as well as on many other occasions. The hon. member had stated that the community were averse to bestow annuities on the chiefs, but his information was of a contrary na'ure — and he believed the colonists would be moat glad of the oppori unity of showing their approbation and appreciation of the conduct of these natives, who had been of such service to the community, Mr. Merriman thought the measure one of great importance, and considered that Thomas Waka was justly entitled to some reward for his services. He agreed however so far with the hon. member Mr. Brown, that there were many others also deserving of consideration, and yet if the Council intioduecd more names in the bill, he did not see where they could stop. On the whole, he thought Wakas name a'one 6hould be inserted, and a sum placed at the disposal of Government for rewarding the other qhiefs according to their services. The Attorney General could not help expressing his disappointment at the manner in which this bill had been received by the hon. member Mr. Brown. It had occurred to him in drawing toe bill, that if passed by the Representatives under the new Constitution, the compliment to Waka would have tteen greatly euhanc-d. And from what had taken place, he was sorry it had not been left for them to carry out, as he cou'd not doubt that it would have met with their hearty support. He thought at least that the claims established by Waka on the colony should have been admitted, and the hon. member might then have moved an amendment to hive the names of the other chiefs, who had distinguished themselves also, inserted in the bill, which would have met with but little opposition from ths Council. He differed with the ho* member as to the view taken out of doors of the measure, as he had found himself obliged to defend it — but not, for settling tn annuity on Waka, but for the very small sum proposed. Had he been inWaka's place, he must say that he would have been greatly mortified at the manner in which the bill had been received. The hon. member in fpsaking of the services of Moses Tawhai had made an assertion that he had by his interference prevented Colonel Despard fiom assaulting the pa at Ruapekapeka the evening before the attack took place, and thereby saved our troops from another serious loss and defeat. The hon. member had by that statement — unknowingly perhaps — placed himself in rather a serious position, as such a statement amounted to a charge of falsehood against that gallant officer, who had written a paper on the subject, which was published in the "Naval and Military Magazine" for November 1846, giving an account of the expedition in question, in which he mobt positively denies that he was dissuaded by a native chtet from making the attack the evening before it actually took place— or indeed that he ever had any such intention of making an attack on the previous evening. He (the Attorney General) could easily suppose that the hon. member had never seen the statement of the gallant officer to which he referred, but he considered it a fortunate circumstance that that officer was not now in the colony, or the consequences might have been a little more serious for the hon. member ; it would be a lesson to him, however, in future not to make statements reflecting on the character of others without making sure of the truth of his information. Mr. Brown would desire to offer a few remarks in explanation, as the nature of his observations seemed to have been entirely misapprehended. He was surprised at the sensation his remarks had crea'ed, as he had not the smallest intention of casting any reflections whatever on iha conduct of the gallant officer referred to — indeed he never thought of him in the matter at all. He was considering the question mGrely as to the services which had been rendered to the Government by the native chiefs, and the remuneration which ought in consequence to be made to them — and had instanced Moses Tawhai as a chief deserving of peculiar consideration for the eminent service which he had rendered on the occasion to which he had alluded, and he had made that allusion upon information which he had heard on good authority, and as being a matter of public talk. But how this could be construed into a censure of Colonel Despard, he was at a loss lo know. He had certainly not seen or heard of the published remarks to which the Attorney General had referred, or if he had, he would have referred to the matter in a different manner, and would at all events have taken care to guard himself against misconstruction. At the same time he could not see how his remarks, fairly interpreted, could be so very objectionable. He could not sec that Colonel Despard need be ashamed of taking the advice of a native chief. Indeed he believed that the Government never could h ave made any progress with the war, but for the advice and assistance of the natives, and whatever success we attained was to be ascribed almost entirely to them. Mr. Brown was proceeding to justify the statements which he had made, when the Governor stated that he was out of order, and the hon. member resumed his seat. The Colonial Secretary was also proceeding to address the Council again on the same subject, and was also reminded that he had alrcidy spoken ; after which the Bill was read a second time, and the Council went into committee. On the first clause beinsj read, Mr. Brown stated that if the Home Government would not grant a pension to Waka, but were determined-to throw the burden ur.ou the colonists, he thought the amount should not be a paltry bum as was proposed in the bill, and he would move that it be increased from ,£52 to j6TIGO per annum. The Colonial Treasurer supported the amendment. Mr. Merriman also approved of the amendment, but would like to see a further sum of .£lOO placed in the Governor's hands for distribution among the other chiefs. The Governor stated that if the opinion of the : Council should ba in favor of granting a sum of i ZJ2uO,Z J 2u0, he would prefer that the bill should not come into operation until her Majesty's confirmation be

obtaine 1. There existed a fund in this country at tb.3 disposal of her M.-ijesty — principally for purposes connected with the natives, and he had little doubt but the present sums would be paid out of that fuud. This bill would appear as an address from the Council to Her Majesty, and would receive every consideration. In the meantime the pensions would be piid out of British funds. He was anxious to make the natives feel that we were not ungrateful, as well as the pecuniary advantage of a pension. By similar means the British Government had been able to exercise great influence over the Sepoys in ladiii. The present pension could not be looked upon as a precedent, as the colony was not likely again to be without the means of defence, and at thi mercy of the natives. Mr. Brown stated that he would no); object to a further sum of ,£lOO being inserted in the bill as proposed, believing as he did that the whole sum would be defrayed by the British Government, as it ought to be. The sum of £100 was then agreed to as an annuity to Waka, and a further sum of ,£ J lOO to be distributed amongst the other chiefs who had assisted. in suppressing the rebellion in the northern part of, the colony. — Committee then adjourned. The Committee resumed its sittings on the Curt'ency Bill. Mr. Merriman moved that the blank in the fifth clause should be filled up with £5030, as the amount of security which the manager of the Bank should, be called upon find. The Colonial Tieasurer thought that such a sum would render the bill inoperative. Tue Attorney General thought that the sum should be left entirely in the hands of the Government. The Governor rose to make a ftw observations before the committee should proceed further. He then went into an explanation to show that he could not have stated on a former occasion that he would not carry any measure through 'the Council on his casting vote. If he deemed this measure beneficial* he would much rather carry it on the responsibility of his own vote, than induce others to pass it against t'jeir own convictions. This measure had been recommended by Her Majesty's Ministers, and had been introduced into the Council accordingly. He would lemind the members of the Council that Her Majesty formed part of that Council, and he as her representative had a nghl to expect the same assistance as if Her Majesty were present. The members were not representatives of the people, but Councillors of Her Mnje=ty. He thought the principle of the measure a very wise one ; but had his own opinion been different, he would not have been vain enough to have set his own opinion in opposition to that of Her Majesty's Ministers, who had evidently considered this matter with great care, and he felt himself therefore bound to give every facility in his power to the passing of it. Tne op« position was not such as had arisen from a careful consideration of the whole subject, and he felt himself in the situation of a mathematician whe, after working out a problem and thoroughly understanding it, was met by individuals who had merely looked at a portion of it, and who were yet ready to say that it was wrong and inaccurate. He was 6O convinced of the propriety of the measure now before the Council, that he had often thought of a similar o le in another colony, and envied those who had first Introduced it in England. Mr. Brcwn did not think it wise to leave the amount of security to be fixed by the Government, He regarded the bill throughout as calculated seriously to injure the commerce of the place, and he considered the present proposal as still more likely to injure the commercial community. It might suit I government officers very w<;ll to vote for this measul'e, because thei salaries would still continue, and i they would suffer no great loss — even if the whole of the commercial community should be ruined. i The Governor would defend the character of officers of Government from such unworthy insinuations. If the views just expressed, were to pass unnoticed, all receiving Government salaries might be deemed a very selfish and mercinary set. But it could not be supposed that those receiving salaries could look unmoved upon the sufferings of others without both feeling sympathy for them as well as sharing a portion of the common distress ; and if such opinions were generally entertained, he thought it a poor reward for those who had spent their energies in the public service. Mr- Brown stated, that without having any intention of undervaluing the services of public officers, he was merely stating a fact, that they would not suffer injury from a failure of the present measure, the same as the rest of the community. He considered this a legitimate argument in this discussion, and as his Excellency had taken advantage of every argument in its favor, he (Mr. Brown) did not Bee why he might not do the same. After some further discussion, the amount security was then fixed at j£looo ; and the claus making the notes a " legal tender," was amended, (after some strong objections from Mr. Brown) by striking out the words "so long as the said Bank shall continue to pay such notes on demand." The Governor stated, that the measure was one of great importance ; he would propose that^ it should not come into operation till it should receive the Royal assent. This delay would also afford an opportunity to those objecting to the measure, to represent their views to the Home Government. The Committee then adjourned, and the report was brought up and adopted. The Colonial Treasurer gave notice that he would move the third reading of the Bill tomorrow. Mr. Brown wished the third reading delayed till Tuesday, to give him time to prepare a protest against the measure. The Governor stated, that it would be inconvenient to prolong the session beyond to-morrow, but he would take care to forward the hon. member* protest along with the Bill, for the consideration of her Majesty's ministers, and the only disadvantage would be, that the protest would not be inserted in the minutes of Council, though he did not knowthat this circumstance would be of much consel queuce. He found he would be unable to lay estimates upon ilia table. But as ths new Constitution would be soon proclaimed, it would be better foe each Legislative assembly to prepare its own estimates ; as any estimates now prepared, would not likely be satisfactory to the southern settlements. Mr. Brown moved, that the returns relative to applications for licenses to occupy Government or native lands, which had been laid upon the table, be printed, us he thought them of much importance, as being the only information which the public possessed as to the system upon which the Govern*

ment acted. He perceived from these returns, that ■various pai ties had applied for licenses to occupy the lands which they held under pre-emption certificates, and that the Government though they refused to grant any license, stated that they would not interfere. Now, if this information had been generally possessed, the claimants would have made much more uae of their lands than they had done. Mr. Brown also took the opportunity of bringing before the Council the injurious effects of the pregent Customs' regulations upon the commerce of the place, and stated, that the duties fell chiefly upon the importers of goods, who were converted into collectors of revenue for the Government, and upon a great portion of the goods so imported, the duties were paid out of their own pockets. This system, besides being obv ously moat partial and unjust, was operating most injuriously upon tha commerce of the country. He urged the necessity of establishing a tax upon property, under which every one would be made to contribute a fair share of taxation, while many under the present system, almost entirely escaped; but he did, not advocate the relinquishing of the present revenue, till it was clearly proved that an equal amount could be raised from another source. This might be done by simply introducing the machinery of a property tax ; but without imposing any rates till it should be ascertained by experience, what these should be ; as well as the provisions necessary for carrying the measure into practice. The Governor was opposed to direct taxation , from its inapplicability to the natives ; but he promised to remove any commercial restrictions which j might be found to exist. j Council then adjourned till Saturday. Saturday, October 16. Present : The Governor and all the Members, except Mr. Domett. On the motion of the Attorney General, the Annuity Bill was read a third time and passed. The Colonial Treasurer moved that the Currency Bill be read a third time. Mr. Brown moved as an amendment, that it be read this day six months, which was Beconded by Mr. Merriman. The Council then divided, when Mr. Brown and Mr. Merriman voted for the amendment ; and the Governor, the Colonial Secretary, and Colonial Treasurer, for the original motion. — The Attorney General declined voting. The amendment being lost, the Bill was read a third time accordingly, and passed. , The Governor laid on the table returns of Duties on Spirits and Tobacco, for the last three quarters, which were ordered to be printed on the motion of Mr. Brown. The Governor then stated, that their laoors having come to a close, he had to thank the members for their attention to the measures submitted to them, and he was now enabled to release them from their duties. He could not dissolve the Council, as other measures might yet require to be passed before the new Constitution could be brought into operation, and" he would therefore merely adjourn the Ccuncil sine die.