Parliament SUPPLEMENTARY VOTES PASSED

Dominion, Volume 28, Issue 28, 27 October 1934, Page 8

Parliament SUPPLEMENTARY VOTES PASSED

Discussion on Miscellaneous Questions AUXILIARY POLICE FORCE PROPOSAL After sitting through Thursday night until daybreak yesler-. day morning, the House of Representatives reassembled at the customary hour of 10.30 o’clock observed on Fridays. Urgencj' had been taken on Thursday for all stages of the Unemployment Amendment Bill, the Local Authorities Interest Reduction and Loans Conversion Amendment Bill, and the Finance Bill (No. 3), but this was not enforced and the adjournment was agreed to when these three measures had been accorded second readings. At yesterday’s sitting consideration was given to the votes on the Supplementary Estimates of departmental expenditure. At the commencement of the sitting the House was asked to pass these and complete the remaining stages of the Unemployment Amendment Bill before adjourning for the week-end. Members were allowed to go, however, after, sanctioning the estimates, the last item of which was not passed until 6 p.m. In view of the fact that several Ministers and a large party of members were due to leave for the south in the evening by the steamer express in order to attend the opening of the Waitaki hydro-electric works to-day. the committee stage on the Unemployment Amendment, Bill was not proceeded with. , Strong exception to the formation of an auxiliary police force was taken by Labour members when the supplementary vote for the Police Department was under consideration, but an adverse amendment was rejected by 35 votes The House will meet on Monday night, when it is hoped to dispose-of a number of Bills at the top of the order paper. The discussion on the Dairy Industry Commission’s report and the Agriculture (Emergency Powers) Bill will be taken on Tuesday.

MENTAL HOSPITALS Shortage of Medical Men in New Zealand DR. GRAY’S MISSION HOME ’The difficulty of securing suitable medical officers for the mental institutions of the Dominion was referred to by the Minister of Health, Hom J. A. Young; when the supplementary estimates of the Mental Hospitals Department were under discussion in the House of Representatives yesterday. The question was raised by Mr. W. E. Barnard (Lab., Napier), who asked why. the Director-General of Mental Hospitals, Dr. T. G. Gray, should have gone to England to engage medical officers. Tho House had been told that the. number of medical students at the Otago Medical School was limited because there were not the openings for those who desired to tako the medical course. There was prima facie evidence against the action of the Otago University Council limiting th©'number of students. The Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates, said they had been unable to get suitable men for mental hospital work. Mr. Young said the department had advertised throughout Australia and New Zealand, but It could not get the class of , men it required. The experience of engaging men on the other side of the world without a personal interview had not been a happy one, and he had taken the matter to Cabinet, which had decided to send Dr, Gray Home to engage suitable men, The students leaving the Medical School made use of the mental hospitals for only a short' time. They wanted trained men who had a flair for the work, which did not seem attractive to the type of men suitable for the job. The salaries had been increased in an endeavour to secure good men. Salaries ranged from £650 to £9OO. Mr. Coates said it was imperative that the present staff be Increased. At present the medical men in the mental hospitals were working overtime and could not keep it up. It was intended to secure six men from overseas. DATE OF ELECTION Mr. Coates in “Complete Ignorance” When the Supplementary Estimates were. under discussion in the House of Representatives yesterday, Mr. R. A. Wright (Ind... Wellington Suburbs) asked the Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates, if he could give any information as to whether the electoral rolls had been brought up to date, whether the ballot papers had been printed, and when an election would be held. Mr. Coates said he was sorry he could not answer any of the questions, because he was in complete ignorance. Mr- J- A. Nash (Govt., Palmerston): The new party would know. Mr. Coates: I don’t know whether the rolls have been brought up to date, I don’t know whether the ballot papers have been printed, and I don’t know when an election will be held. Mr. J. O’Brien (Lab., Westland): This year, next year, some time, never. Mr. Coates smilingly remarked that nobody could tell what was going to happen. It was pretty difficult to fix a date that would suit members. (Laughter.) LEGISLATIVE COUNCIL Mining Bill Amended The Legislative Council yesterday afternoon gave further consideration to the Mining Amendment Bill. By leave of the Council, the BiU was recommitted for the purpose of reconsidering the clause dealing with compensation for damage to Crown Land by mining operations. The Leader, Hou. R. Masters, said that he had conferred with the Minister of Mines concerning the objection that had been raised the previous day to the clause, and he was now in a position to suggest an amend ment providing for the hearing of Crown claims for compensation before the Warden and two assessors, as provided for general cases in tho principal Act. He moved the amendment which was agreed to, the Hon. Sir James Alien observing that it was very satisfactory and removed a difficulty. The Bill was put through the committee stage, read a third time, and passed, the Council then adjourning till Tuesday afternoon.

< BORROWING POLICY Authority in Finance Bill MEMBERS CONCERNED Concern at the provision iu the Finance Bill (No. 3) authorising the Government to borrow £6,000,000, was expressed by several members during the second reading debate on the Bill in the House of Representatives early yesterday morning. The Bill authorises the Minister of Finance to borrow £4,000,000 for certain public works, £1,000.000 for electric pouter ’ works, and £1,000,000 for main highways. Detailed information as to the nature of the undertakings on which the loan money was to be spent was asked for by others. “It makes one feel a general election is not far off," said the Leader of the Opposition. Mr. M. J. Savage, referring to the loan authorities in the Bill. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Ind., Wanganui) said that according to the Bill portion of the £4j000.000 the Minister was authorised to borrow for public works was to be made available for the construction of railways and additions to open lines. He had no objection to the construction of railway lines, some of which he had advocated. He had understood. however, that railway construction was to cease, but it now seemed that money was to be spent on this class of work. Was it not a fact that money could not be expended without a recommendation of the Government Railways Board? Had the Government received such a recommendation from the board? . National Debt Increases. ' Mr. R. A. Wright' (Ind., Wellington Suburbs) said borrowing on the part of New Zealand would have to be faced up to, if not by this Parliament then by future Parliaments. They could not go on adding to the national debt. They were only told in a general way how the money it was proposed to raise was to be expended. What lines was it proposed to construct? Mr. D. W. Coleman (Lab., Gisborne): The Napier-Gisborne line. Mr. Wright: That won’t pay. The whole of these unfinished lines were carefully examined at the time the Railways Board was appointed. I am nervous about this additional borrowing. “I regret that the Government is starting on a fresh loan programme,” said Mr. H, M. Campbell (Govt., Hawke’s Bay). They had managed to scratch along for two or three years without any borrowing, and now things were nicking up they should continue to refrain from borrowing. The interest on borrowed money would have to be paid. It might.be advisable to borrow, but money obtained in that way should be used in redemption of other loans. Mr. P. McSklmmlng (Govt., Clutha) said he was shocked at the idea of the Government launching out on a borrowing campaign. It might be all very well while they were spending the money, but there came a day when the bill had to be paid. He failed to see why the Government should launch a borrowing campaign unless it could be shown that the money would be used for work of a reproductive nature. Too much of the money spent in the past was giving no return. Borrowing or Stagnation.

Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central) said they had to choose between the Government running the country In the interests of the people and borrowing, or stagnation. The Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates, said that Mr. Wright knew as well as anyone, probably better than any other member of the- House, that it was necessary to get borrowing authority first, and then come to Parliament and get members to pass estimates for the work on which it was proposed to spend the money. Because authority to borrow was taken - it did not mean authority to spend. The Budget, the Estimates, Public Works Statement, Public Works Estimates, and Supplementary Estimates, always specified the works on which it was proposed to spend loan money. All these documents had to be considered by the House. The attitude of Mr. Wright was one of sheer mischievousness, and an attempt to lead innocent members who were weary after a long night’s sitting. “It is just monkeying about,” said Mr. Coates, his remark being followed by loud laughter from all sides of the House.

Referring to Mr. Veitch’s question in connection with railway construction, Mr. .Coates said money was required for the Wellington railway station, and the electrification of the railway line to Paekakarikl. Money was also needed for the building of post offices and similar buildings. (

AUXILIARY POLICE “Scheme Designed Merely as a Precaution” LABOUR PARTY CRITICAL The Government’s plan to form an auxiliary police force for use during emergencies was defended vigorously by the Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. W. Forbes, in the House of Representatives yesterday, when he was replying to criticism. Mr. Forbes referred to the Wellington and Auckland riots of 1932, and said that the Government did not wish such conditions to recur. The Government would not stand for the disorder and destruction of mob rule, and the present plan was designed merely as,a precaution. It was better to have a section of trained men ready to come forward during an emergency than to rely on volunteers called up at a moment’s notice. The subject was opened by Mr. W. E. Parry (Lab., Auckland Central). He said he had the strongest objection to extra, police being appointed if this would mean the disentegration of the permanent force. The Minister of. Justice, the Hon. J. G. Cobbe, explained that 350 auxiliary police would be appointed, 150 being stationed at Auckland, 100 in Wellington and ’5O In Christchurch and Dunedin. Men living within easy distance of the centre of the city would receive preference In appointment, and they would be paid £1 a month. If the men were made permanent members of the fbree the cost would be £105,000. A Labour Amendment. The Leader of the Opposition, Mr. M. J. Savage, said that if additional police were needed they should be added to the permanent force. The Minister was laying the foundations of a spy system which could not be defended. Mr. Savage moved by way of protest that the police vote be reduced by £4200, the cost of the auxiliary force. Mr. R. Semple (Lab., Wellington East) said it had been alleged that the auxiliary force was necessary for the visit of the Duke of Gloucester, but it had not been necessary during other Royal tours. The Government’s plan was nothing but an insult to the people. There were no signs of insurrection in the country, and official statistics showed that crime was actually on the decline. The permanent police, Mr. Semple said, regarded the auxiliaries with suspicion, as they considered they would do their best to replace members ■ of the force by “pimping” oh them. The Prime Minister said that In times of emergency it was necessary to look to the citizens of'the country for the protection of persons and property. He admired men who were willing to undertake difficult and unpleasant duties in the interests of their fellow citizens. “In the great upheaval in Auckland,” lie said, “If it had not been for help received from the citizens there would have been a reign of terror. The police required the support of the specials and of every right-thinking person in the community. We are determined not to have this sort of thing in our. cities. There is nothing more dangerous than when large mobs of people get out of hand.” “Steady, Level-headed Men," Mr. Forbes said it was necessary to have a certain number of steady, levelheaded men who could be depended on in cases of outbreaks. These men would undergo training, particularly in the handling of crowds, and at a pinch would be able to maintain law and order without unnecessary offence. Special constables were apt sometimes to be hot-headed—they had not the patience and experience of permanent members of the force, and some training was most desirable. Patience was necessary in face of taunts, threats and abuse. Mr. A. 8. Richards (Lab., Roskill): That is an insult to our citizens. Mr. Forbes: If you would allow that sort of license in our cities, we would not. It is not the sort of thing we should encourage. Mr. J. O’Brien (Lab., Westland) said the auxiliary police force was designed by the Government. to force down the throats of the people its own restrictive legislation. It had been suggested that the auxiliary police were expressly for the Prince’s visit. Mr. Forbes: They are not to be organised for the Prince’s visit., Mr. O'Brien said the Prime Minister was setting himself up as a Hitler. “I don’t know whether the Labour Party stands for mob rule, but we don’t,” the Prime Minister declared a little later. “It is just as well to understand that. The reserve police will be welcomed by the regulars.” Mr. Parry: Take a. vote. Mr. Forbes: That is all right. I would like to see you in uniform facing some of those ugly crowds. Mr. Parry: I would not turn my back on a crowd, nor even on you. Bitter Debates. Labour interjections at this stage rose to a pitch and the Chairman of Committees, Mr. S. G. Smith, was several moments restoring order. He asked the Prime Minister not to impute improper motives to the Opposition. Mr. Forbes said that anything done in the House to assist the police was stoutly resisted by the Labour Party. There were always obstructive and bitter debates, and yet the Labour Party called itself the friend of the police. The regular police force would be, glad to have the specials by them in times of crisis.

Mr. 11. T. Armstrong '(Lab., Christchurch East) said the Prime Minister always lost his balance and his reason when anything connected with the police fotjce was being discussed. “The Prime Minister is the greatest alarmist In tjie country,” he said. “He cannot see the people joining in a harmless, demonstration without thinking they are out for acts of violence. I remember the Prime Minister scuttling over a back fence in Christchurch because the people were cheering outside the hall. I think he' honestly believed the crowd was going to inflict an injury on him, and there isn’t a soul in Christchurch who would hurt a hair on ills head. If the right honourable gentleman over there (pointing to Mr. Coates) bad been there he would have come out to the crowd and said, ‘Now boys, what’s this all about?’ ” Other Labour members criticised the attitude Mr. Forbes had taken up.

Mr. Savage’s amendment was defeated by 34 votes to 17 and the vote was passed.

UNEMPLOYMENT BOARD Objection to Higher Pay LABOUR PARTY’S PROTEST As a protest against the salaries of members of the Unemployment Board being increased without similar provision being made for relief workers, the Labour Party sought to reduce by £395 the vote in the Supplementary Estimates r/.ating to the Unemployment Fund in the House of Representatives yesterday. The salary of the deputychairman was shown as £650, and the salaries of the other two members as £6OO and £270 respectively. "In my opinion the men carrying out this job are not getting more than they deserve,” said the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. M. J. Savage. “My protest in unqualified words is that to increase salaries out of the Unemployment Fund, while we cannot afford to increase the wages of those on relief works is well over the fence. I want to know what the amounts of these increases are.” The acting-Minister of Employment, Hon. J. A. Young, said that Mr. W. Bromley had received £270 last year. He had since been appointed deputychairman, and was felt to be worthy of something better than the salary he had hitherto received. The work had grown so much that it was essential to have a full-time executive. Mr. Bromley and Mr. G. A. Pascoe worked full time. Mr. H. T. Armstrong (Lab., Christchurch East) said he thought Mr. Bromley got £4OO last year. Cut of 10 Per Cent. The Minister said the deputy-chair-man received that amount less 10 per cent, last year, but Mr. Bromley was not then deputy-chairman. Mr. P. Fraser (Lab.; Wellington Central) : What were the allowances?

The Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates: Ten shillings a day. Mr. Fraser: That made his salary about £455.

Mr. Coates: That is about right. Mr. W. J. Jordan (Lab., Manukau): Does he still receive allowances? Mr. Young: No—only the. usual allowances when he is absent on public duty. Mr. Pascoe gets £6OO and the other member £270.

Mr. Armstrong: You could do without him altogether. , Mr. Young: He is a valuable member.

A reduction of the vote by £395 was moved by Mr. Fraser, who said the effect of the amendment, if carried, would be to reduce the salaries of members of the board to the amounts they received last year. The members had performed arduous and probably efficient work, but their salaries should not be increased while the Government refused to provide adequately for the unemployed.

Mr. H. S. 8. Kyle (Govt., Rlccarton) said he was beginning to wonder whether the services of Mr. P. RCilmi© were required in view of the disparity in his salary and the salaries of the other members.

“Very Capable Man.”

Mr. Coates paid a tribute to Mr. Bromley, describing him as a very capable man.

Mr. Jordan: Are his results satisfactory? Mr, CdUes: That is not altogether his fault. He is not being paid extravagantly.

Mr. Armstrong: He is being paid out of the wrong fund. Mr. Coates: I admit there may be differences of opinion about that. Mr. A. M. Samuel (Ind., Thames) said ho had no objection to any officer being sufficiently paid, but be intended to support the amendment as a protest ngalnst the differential payments made to relief workers in town and country and the harsh way the unemployed wore treated in certain parts of the Dominion.

Mr. W. Nash (Txxlb., Hutt) said there was not the slightest question of th? value of the work done by members of the board from the Government’s point/ of view. The Opposition was of the opinion, however, that the funds of the board should not be used to pay increased salaries to someone receiving more than £4OO, while another section paid from the funds of the board was receiving less than £5O. After other members had spoken a division was taken, w’hich resulted tn the rejection of the amendment by 20 votes to 23. MONETARY INQUIRY What of Committee’s Report? What’s happened to the report of the Monetary Committee, which cost the country £1575?” asked Mr. J. O’Brien (Lab., Westland) when the Supplementary Estimates were under’ consideration in the House of Representatives yesterday. Mr. O’Brien said he would like some information as to whether the Government proposed to give the House a further opportunity to discuss the report. The Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates: Don’t you think you have got your money’s worth? Mr. O’Brien: The report came in and went out one evening. Mr. Coates: It is still on the order paper. Mr. O’Brien: Is it coming back some day. Mr. Coates: That is a matter for members. Mr. O’Brien: It will be tossed overboard one of these days. BUILDING SUBSIDY Unemployment Board’s Grants Practically 2000 applications have been made to the Unemployment Board for subsidies under the board's new building assistance scheme. Of these 1507 have been approved, involving a total expenditure of £1,020,000, and the employment of 0561 workers. Applications declined by the board total 203, and applications now being considered 151. The Acting-Minister of Employment, Hon. J. A. Young, quoted these figures in the House of Representatives early yesterday morning, in his reply to the debate on the Unemployment Amendment Bill.

POLICE EQUIPMENT Commission Asked to Report to Minister TRANSPORT FACILITIES . Support for the view expressed by Mr. .Justice Herdman in Auckland recently that the police force was lagging behind in the matter of equipment was voiced by Mr. W. J. Jordan (Lab., Manukau) when speaking on the Supplementary Estimates in the House or Representatives yesterday. Mr. Jordan asked whether any consideration had been given to the question of providing improved equipment for the police. Many of the stations were poorly equipped. In his own district there were one sergeant and five constables, and their only means of transport consisted of a horse and* a bicycle. The Minister of Justice, Hon. J. G. Cobbe, said that the officers at many of the country stations had motor-cars and motor-cycles for which they received an adequate allowance. Speed cars were being provided in the cities and in Auckland the police had a car capable of doing 65 miles an hour. Mr. J. O’Brien (Lab., Westland) : That’ won’t catch anything. There are cars that can do SO miles an hour. Mr. Jordan said it had to be remembered that the police had to deal with accidents as well as with crime, and it was essential that they should have speedy conveyances. Instead of spending money on the auxiliary force, it would be better to give the permanent force efficient equipment. The Minister said he had asked the Commissioner to supply him with a report setting out the needs of the force in regard to equipment.

NURSES’ CONDITIONS

Member Urges Inquiry

An inquiry into the working conditions of nurses in public hospitals was urged by Mr. W. Nash (Lab., Hutt) when speaking on" the Supplementary Estimates in the House of Representatives yesterday. “Statements are being made that the conditions of nurses in some of our hospitals are nothing like as good as they should’be,” said Mr. Nash. “It is alleged that the nurses have to work long hours and go on duty even when their health is not good, because of shortage of staff. I trust an inquiry will be made particularly into the case, of the Wellington hospital.”

RELIEF ALLOCATIONS

Better Basis This Summer

Claiming that the Unemployment Board was doing everything possible to improve the conditions of relief workers, the Minister of Employment, Hon. J. A. Young, announced in the House of Representatives early yesterday morning that 120 centres would be on a better allocation basis this Summer than they were last summer.

The board, he said, was carrying out an intensive investigation to improve conditions, particularly in the country districts, and it was hoped to eliminate the stand-down week, by giving the men a little more earning power.